81 replies to this topic

[APBT]

A new study using Longvida curcumin was recently published.  FULL TEXT: Investigation of the effects of solid lipid curcumin on cognition and mood in a healthy older population

 

Abstract

Curcumin possesses many properties which may prevent or ameliorate pathological processes underlying age-related cognitive decline, dementia or mood disorders. These benefits in preclinical studies have not been established in humans. This randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial examined the acute (1 and 3 h after a single dose), chronic (4 weeks) and acute-on-chronic (1 and 3 h after single dose following chronic treatment) effects of solid lipid curcumin formulation (400 mg as Longvida®) on cognitive function, mood and blood biomarkers in 60 healthy adults aged 60–85. One hour after administration curcumin significantly improved performance on sustained attention and working memory tasks, compared with placebo. Working memory and mood (general fatigue and change in state calmness, contentedness and fatigue induced by psychological stress) were significantly better following chronic treatment. A significant acute-on-chronic treatment effect on alertness and contentedness was also observed. Curcumin was associated with significantly reduced total and LDL cholesterol and had no effect on hematological safety measures. To our knowledge this is the first study to examine the effects of curcumin on cognition and mood in a healthy older population or to examine any acute behavioral effects in humans. Results highlight the need for further investigation of the potential psychological and cognitive benefits of curcumin in an older population.

http://jop.sagepub.c...269881114552744

 

[niner]

I wish curcumin wasn't such a libido-eraser...

[GoingPrimal]

I wish curcumin wasn't such a libido-eraser...

 

Is this a common side effect? I haven't noticed this, any idea through what mechanisms? Using a libido-boosting substance might help to counter these effects.

[niner]

I don't know how common it is, but someone here reported it, and I noticed it myself.   (using VRP Longvida)

[stan08]

I don't know how common it is, but someone here reported it, and I noticed it myself. (using VRP Longvida)

Do you know if it's better to take longvida curcumin with food or on an empty stomach? The instructions on the bottle I bought don't say.

[GoingPrimal]

I'm taking Longvida Curcumin, I take it with a light snack or without food as absorption is supposed to be enhanced due to the "wrapping" of curcumin in a phospholipid molecule. Could always take some black pepper or piperine with it.

[stan08]

I'm taking Longvida Curcumin, I take it with a light snack or without food as absorption is supposed to be enhanced due to the "wrapping" of curcumin in a phospholipid molecule. Could always take some black pepper or piperine with it.

That's kind of what I was thinking but wasn't sure. Have you noticed much from it? I was taking meriva curcumin but decided to try longvida.

[ironfistx]

SOmeone keeps clicking needs references on niner's posts.

 

The curcumin I took made by Vitamin Shoppe killed my libido, made it extremely difficult to get an erection, although I didn't really get it to stay up, and gave me diarrhea a few hours later, and this was even if I took a half dose of the product you can see here at this link on their site.

 

The reason I tried it was because I had tendonitis and a thread on mindandmuscle said that it was good for that because it was an antiinflammatory, but they also said it was a MAOI, causes bruxism and rebound symptoms when you stop.  I stopped using the product beause I didn't notice anything fomr it other than the side effects noted.

[GoingPrimal]

I'm taking just one pill a day of meriva curcumin, can't say I've noticed anything positive or negative. Libido and erections are as good as always. Haven't noticed any changes in mood, though maybe a slight improvement in a sore shoulder, but that things on and off either way.

[resveratrol_guy]

After some extensive reading, I've come to suspect that Longvida is utterly underutilized, especially in unhealthy individuals. (Healthy individuals will never know about the diseases that they avoid as a result.)

 

Given that no toxicity level has ever been found -- and in any event is many times the 400 mg/d base dose -- there would seem to be a case for megadosing this stuff, for those of us whose condition would justify such a strategy. I feel stupid about this because I had previously written it off as yet another boring antiinflammatory no better than a high dose of aspirin. Blake Ebersole, Technical Director of Verdure Sciences, explains the science exceptionally well in this YouTube video. (The bad sound quality gets fixed after several minutes, and it's well worth sticking around for Q&A at the end.) Yes, he works for the company that owns the patent, but it's as scientifically attuned and as one could expect under such circumstances, and at the very least serves as a springboard from which to locate the relevant studies.
 

And no, I don't own any Verdure stock (unfortunately)!

 

Just a few warnings, apart from the issues presented above:

 

1. If you take multiple doses, carefully consider the pros and cons of all-at-once vs. every-few-hours (after you study the pharmacokinetics presented in the video). And definitely report back your results.

 

2. There are some rumors that curcumin is an MAOI, and therefore in theory it could cause adverse reactions in people consuming SSRIs. I have no evidence that this has been observed, however, despite extensive safety testing.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 March 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[stan08]

After some extensive reading, I've come to suspect that Longvida is utterly underutilized, especially in unhealthy individuals. (Healthy individuals will never know about the diseases that they avoid as a result.)

 

Given that no toxicity level has ever been found -- and in any event is many times the 400 mg/d base dose -- there would seem to be a case for megadosing this stuff, for those of us whose condition would justify such a strategy. I feel stupid about this because I had previously written it off as yet another boring antiinflammatory no better than a high dose of aspirin. Blake Ebersole, Technical Director of Verdure Sciences, explains the science exceptionally well in this YouTube video. (The bad sound quality gets fixed after several minutes, and it's well worth sticking around for Q&A at the end.) Yes, he works for the company that owns the patent, but it's as scientifically attuned and as one could expect under such circumstances, and at the very least serves as a springboard from which to locate the relevant studies.
 

And no, I don't own any Verdure stock (unfortunately)!

 

Just a few warnings, apart from the issues presented above:

 

1. If you take multiple doses, carefully consider the pros and cons of all-at-once vs. every-few-hours (after you study the pharmacokinetics presented in the video). And definitely report back your results.

 

2. There are some rumors that curcumin is an MAOI, and therefore in theory it could cause adverse reactions in people consuming SSRIs. I have no evidence that this has been observed, however, despite extensive safety testing.

 

Thank you for posting a link to that video.  While long, it was very informative.  Maybe I missed something but I wish he had expanded a bit more on once daily versus multiple times daily dosing...and with food versus empty stomach.  It seems he thinks once daily dosing on an empty stomach is best.  However, he then mentions that some people see good results when taking it with food.  I'm curious what the difference in effects would be (with regard to absorption over the long-term) when using one dosing method versus the other.  Personally, I have noticed much stronger effects (on mood and anxiety) taking it on an empty stomach.  Based on this video I think I'll try taking it just once a day...first thing in the morning and on an empty stomach (I have been taking it twice daily; with breakfast and dinner).

[Kalliste]

Regarding mega-dosing of Curcumin. It might be better to stick with Turmeric roots and curcumin powder unless you already have a serious illness that might be treated with high dose regimens.

 

 

Age (Dordr). 2015 Feb;37(1):9744. doi: 10.1007/s11357-014-9744-y. Epub 2015 Feb 4.

Curcumin induces senescence of primary human cells building the vasculature in a DNA damage and ATM-independent manner.

Grabowska W¹, Kucharewicz K, Wnuk M, Lewinska A, Suszek M, Przybylska D, Mosieniak G, Sikora E, Bielak-Zmijewska A.

Author information

Abstract

Curcumin is considered not only as a supplement of the diet but also as a drug in many types of diseases and even as a potential anti-aging compound. It can reduce inflammation that increases with age and accompanies almost all age-related diseases. It has been suggested that curcumin can play a beneficial role in the cardiovascular system. However, there are also data showing that curcumin can induce senescence in cancer cells, which is a beneficial effect in cancer therapy but an undesirable one in the case of normal cells. It is believed that cellular senescence accompanies age-related changes in the cardiovascular system. The aim of this study was to check if curcumin, in a certain range of concentrations, can induce senescence in cells building the vasculature. We have found that human vascular smooth muscle and endothelial cells derived from aorta are very sensitive to curcumin treatment and can senesce upon treatment with cytostatic doses. We observed characteristic senescence markers but the number of DNA damage foci decreased. Surprisingly, in vascular smooth muscle cell (VSMC) activation of DNA damage response pathway downstream of ataxia-telangiectasia mutated (ATM) was observed. ATM silencing and the supplementation of antioxidants, N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) or trolox, did not reduce the number of senescent cells. Thus, we have shown that curcumin can induce senescence of cells building the vasculature, which is DNA damage and ATM independent and is not induced by increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) level. We postulate that an increase in the bioavailability of curcumin should be introduced very carefully considering senescence induction as a side effect.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25649709

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 06 March 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[APBT]

For those interested, VRP currently has Longvida for 40% off using this coupon code on checkout:  V4P2AA59

[niner]

Regarding mega-dosing of Curcumin. It might be better to stick with Turmeric roots and curcumin powder unless you already have a serious illness that might be treated with high dose regimens.

 

 

Age (Dordr). 2015 Feb;37(1):9744. doi: 10.1007/s11357-014-9744-y. Epub 2015 Feb 4.

Curcumin induces senescence of primary human cells building the vasculature in a DNA damage and ATM-independent manner.

Grabowska W¹, Kucharewicz K, Wnuk M, Lewinska A, Suszek M, Przybylska D, Mosieniak G, Sikora E, Bielak-Zmijewska A.

Author information

Abstract

Curcumin is considered not only as a supplement of the diet but also as a drug in many types of diseases and even as a potential anti-aging compound. It can reduce inflammation that increases with age and accompanies almost all age-related diseases. It has been suggested that curcumin can play a beneficial role in the cardiovascular system. However, there are also data showing that curcumin can induce senescence in cancer cells, which is a beneficial effect in cancer therapy but an undesirable one in the case of normal cells. It is believed that cellular senescence accompanies age-related changes in the cardiovascular system. The aim of this study was to check if curcumin, in a certain range of concentrations, can induce senescence in cells building the vasculature. We have found that human vascular smooth muscle and endothelial cells derived from aorta are very sensitive to curcumin treatment and can senesce upon treatment with cytostatic doses. We observed characteristic senescence markers but the number of DNA damage foci decreased. Surprisingly, in vascular smooth muscle cell (VSMC) activation of DNA damage response pathway downstream of ataxia-telangiectasia mutated (ATM) was observed. ATM silencing and the supplementation of antioxidants, N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) or trolox, did not reduce the number of senescent cells. Thus, we have shown that curcumin can induce senescence of cells building the vasculature, which is DNA damage and ATM independent and is not induced by increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) level. We postulate that an increase in the bioavailability of curcumin should be introduced very carefully considering senescence induction as a side effect.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25649709

 

That's a little scary, but note the phrase "at cytostatic doses".  That sounds like a lot more than we'd be getting via oral supplementation.  Is this just the usual inverted U-shaped curve?

[Kalliste]

I'm no expert at any rate. I think that kind of dose might be conceivable via special formulations like Longvida. Thats why I stated that I would consider high dose regimens only if I had a pre-existing disease such as cancer. With cancer going on senescence is probably a wanted event.

[resveratrol_guy]

Regarding mega-dosing of Curcumin. It might be better to stick with Turmeric roots and curcumin powder unless you already have a serious illness that might be treated with high dose regimens.

 

 

Age (Dordr). 2015 Feb;37(1):9744. doi: 10.1007/s11357-014-9744-y. Epub 2015 Feb 4.

Curcumin induces senescence of primary human cells building the vasculature in a DNA damage and ATM-independent manner.

Grabowska W¹, Kucharewicz K, Wnuk M, Lewinska A, Suszek M, Przybylska D, Mosieniak G, Sikora E, Bielak-Zmijewska A.

Author information

Abstract

Curcumin is considered not only as a supplement of the diet but also as a drug in many types of diseases and even as a potential anti-aging compound. It can reduce inflammation that increases with age and accompanies almost all age-related diseases. It has been suggested that curcumin can play a beneficial role in the cardiovascular system. However, there are also data showing that curcumin can induce senescence in cancer cells, which is a beneficial effect in cancer therapy but an undesirable one in the case of normal cells. It is believed that cellular senescence accompanies age-related changes in the cardiovascular system. The aim of this study was to check if curcumin, in a certain range of concentrations, can induce senescence in cells building the vasculature. We have found that human vascular smooth muscle and endothelial cells derived from aorta are very sensitive to curcumin treatment and can senesce upon treatment with cytostatic doses. We observed characteristic senescence markers but the number of DNA damage foci decreased. Surprisingly, in vascular smooth muscle cell (VSMC) activation of DNA damage response pathway downstream of ataxia-telangiectasia mutated (ATM) was observed. ATM silencing and the supplementation of antioxidants, N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) or trolox, did not reduce the number of senescent cells. Thus, we have shown that curcumin can induce senescence of cells building the vasculature, which is DNA damage and ATM independent and is not induced by increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) level. We postulate that an increase in the bioavailability of curcumin should be introduced very carefully considering senescence induction as a side effect.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25649709

 

Thanks for the warning, Cosmicalstorm. I'm not surprised that antioxidants did not fix the problem, as curcumin itself is a powerful antioxidant; mitochondrial antioxidants might have been more useful, particularly MitoQ with its proven proendothelial effects. And indeed, this might partly explain the observation that Indians eating a traditional Indian diet appear to have minimal musculature compared to world averages.

 

That said, I'm still on the promegadosing side of the fence because: (1) this is an in vitro study which does not inform us as to healthspan impact in the real world, especially when weighed against the established benefits of lipidated curcumin; (2) free-form curcumin of the sort used in the study does not exist in the blood, for all practical purposes, as even Longvida depends on endocytosis for cellular uptake; (3) from a practical perspective, even if the results are entirely valid, vascular dysfunction can be easily addressed with CD34 stem cell mobilization, by way of comparison to the difficulty of reversing cancer or Alzheimer's; and (4) as pointed out above, the oral dose required to induce said senence might be unrealistically high, and in any event, the threshold is unclear.

 

So what you've pointed out is valuable by way of warning. Fortunately, however, I don't think it's a show stopper.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 07 March 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Thank you for posting a link to that video.  While long, it was very informative.  Maybe I missed something but I wish he had expanded a bit more on once daily versus multiple times daily dosing...and with food versus empty stomach.  It seems he thinks once daily dosing on an empty stomach is best.  However, he then mentions that some people see good results when taking it with food.  I'm curious what the difference in effects would be (with regard to absorption over the long-term) when using one dosing method versus the other.  Personally, I have noticed much stronger effects (on mood and anxiety) taking it on an empty stomach.  Based on this video I think I'll try taking it just once a day...first thing in the morning and on an empty stomach (I have been taking it twice daily; with breakfast and dinner).

 

 

You're welcome. I think you've underscored a very underemphasized aspect of Longvida, which is that it has 2 distinct effect phases, namely: (1) short term disinflammation and (2) long term beta amyloid disaggregation and tau dephosphorylation, and maybe something involving autophagy or apoptosis of cancer cells. I suppose I should take it on an empty stomach, assuming I can tolerate the minor gastic upset.

 

Nevertheless I can't get the pharmacokinetic curve out of my head: why do I only want to feel at my best for about 3 hours per day? Why not 24, or at least 12?

 

Can you provide any further details about your dosing regimen and what you've observed by way of both effect phases?

[david ellis]

I wish curcumin wasn't such a libido-eraser...

BCM-95 curcumin wasn't a libido eraser for me.   But, it had effects on my immune system.   Cold sores on my lips.   I hadn't had them for 60 years, but they came back.   When I discontinued BCM-95 the cold sores left.    I knew about curcumin supporting the immune system, but dampening the immune system  is a negative for me, because I am worry about shingles.

 

BCM-95  was very effective against inflammation.  I used it during a period where I had two macular puckers-one in each eye. (a macular pucker results in vision similar to looking through cellophane) So I needed two operations.   An extra transparent layer grows over the macula when a floater (maybe endothelial cells) lands on it - so cellophane vision is a good description.    I am thankful for the surgeon's skill because I have  20/20 vision in one eye and 20/25 in the other.   I was able to accurately assess inflamation by viewing cross sectional views of the retina.   I saw correlation between decreases in inflammation and intake of BCM-95.

 

I have another vision anomaly, that I feel is due to inflammation.   The anomaly was a very small ellipse in my visual field that would pulse.  This mostly occured when I moved from inside the house and into the sun.    This anomaly only occurs when I have not taken the BCM-95.   I had bought BCM-95 only because it was in a gel, not in messy, fingers and clothes staining capsules.    So I was disappointed to discover  regular curcumin doesn't work quickly.  I decided to buy Longvida this time.

 

I am trying Longvida now.  This is my second day, so no report of better vision yet.      Hopefully the immune system dampening won't happen with Longvida and I get the reported immune system boost, and avoid the immune system dampening.

[stan08]

Thank you for posting a link to that video. While long, it was very informative. Maybe I missed something but I wish he had expanded a bit more on once daily versus multiple times daily dosing...and with food versus empty stomach. It seems he thinks once daily dosing on an empty stomach is best. However, he then mentions that some people see good results when taking it with food. I'm curious what the difference in effects would be (with regard to absorption over the long-term) when using one dosing method versus the other. Personally, I have noticed much stronger effects (on mood and anxiety) taking it on an empty stomach. Based on this video I think I'll try taking it just once a day...first thing in the morning and on an empty stomach (I have been taking it twice daily; with breakfast and dinner).

You're welcome. I think you've underscored a very underemphasized aspect of Longvida, which is that it has 2 distinct effect phases, namely: (1) short term disinflammation and (2) long term beta amyloid disaggregation and tau dephosphorylation, and maybe something involving autophagy or apoptosis of cancer cells. I suppose I should take it on an empty stomach, assuming I can tolerate the minor gastic upset.

Nevertheless I can't get the pharmacokinetic curve out of my head: why do I only want to feel at my best for about 3 hours per day? Why not 24, or at least 12?

Can you provide any further details about your dosing regimen and what you've observed by way of both effect phases?

I never had any problems taking it on an empty stomach. For me, that's saying a lot because I often have issues with supplements or food.

Funny you should mention the curve. I've been thinking about that since my last post and have actually decided to take a different approach. I'm going to try taking it three times a day; with breakfast, lunch and dinner (I have been taking 400 mg with breakfast and dinner). Even though it does work better on an empty stomach, I find it easier to remember to take it with my meals. Also, I've found the effects from 400 mg to be almost too strong on an empty stomach. With regard to effects, it completely eliminates my daily back pain and greatly reduces my anxiety and provides a little boost in mood (very good a helping balance my moods such that I stay calm and don't over-react to things like usual). Similar effects are experienced with taking it on an empty stomach. However, they're definitely stronger...especially the reduction in anxiety. The only problem is that it's kind of sedating. So, I've found taking it with food provides enough of the beneficial effects without being too sedating. Also, taking it twice each day seems to be the minimum for the benefits to last through the evening. I'm curious to see if a third dose will work even better. So, I'll be adding that with lunch.

Edited by stan08, 07 March 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

I wish curcumin wasn't such a libido-eraser...

BCM-95 curcumin wasn't a libido eraser for me.   But, it had effects on my immune system.   Cold sores on my lips.   I hadn't had them for 60 years, but they came back.   When I discontinued BCM-95 the cold sores left.    I knew about curcumin supporting the immune system, but dampening the immune system  is a negative for me, because I am worry about shingles.

 

BCM-95  was very effective against inflammation.  I used it during a period where I had two macular puckers-one in each eye. (a macular pucker results in vision similar to looking through cellophane) So I needed two operations.   An extra transparent layer grows over the macula when a floater (maybe endothelial cells) lands on it - so cellophane vision is a good description.    I am thankful for the surgeon's skill because I have  20/20 vision in one eye and 20/25 in the other.   I was able to accurately assess inflamation by viewing cross sectional views of the retina.   I saw correlation between decreases in inflammation and intake of BCM-95.

 

I have another vision anomaly, that I feel is due to inflammation.   The anomaly was a very small ellipse in my visual field that would pulse.  This mostly occured when I moved from inside the house and into the sun.    This anomaly only occurs when I have not taken the BCM-95.   I had bought BCM-95 only because it was in a gel, not in messy, fingers and clothes staining capsules.    So I was disappointed to discover  regular curcumin doesn't work quickly.  I decided to buy Longvida this time.

 

I am trying Longvida now.  This is my second day, so no report of better vision yet.      Hopefully the immune system dampening won't happen with Longvida and I get the reported immune system boost, and avoid the immune system dampening.

 

 

If you're worried about shingles, you might want to research the shingles vaccine.

 

Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that curcumin in any form would actually dampen the immune system, apart from lowering inflammation. Although the latter necessarily involves a decrease in proinflammatory cyotkine release, it's also associated with lower rates of cancer. So the net immune effect is actually broadly positive. Pending contrary virological data, I would bet that your cold sore return was the result of something else. Unfortunately, herpes is notoriously evasive because it resides in the nerves.

 

Vision improvement is not something I would normally associate with curcumin, but given your BCM95 results, it might work. Let us know.

[resveratrol_guy]

I never had any problems taking it on an empty stomach. For me, that's saying a lot because I often have issues with supplements or food.

Funny you should mention the curve. I've been thinking about that since my last post and have actually decided to take a different approach. I'm going to try taking it three times a day; with breakfast, lunch and dinner (I have been taking 400 mg with breakfast and dinner). Even though it does work better on an empty stomach, I find it easier to remember to take it with my meals. Also, I've found the effects from 400 mg to be almost too strong on an empty stomach. With regard to effects, it completely eliminates my daily back pain and greatly reduces my anxiety and provides a little boost in mood (very good a helping balance my moods such that I stay calm and don't over-react to things like usual). Similar effects are experienced with taking it on an empty stomach. However, they're definitely stronger...especially the reduction in anxiety. The only problem is that it's kind of sedating. So, I've found taking it with food provides enough of the beneficial effects without being too sedating. Also, taking it twice each day seems to be the minimum for the benefits to last through the evening. I'm curious to see if a third dose will work even better. So, I'll be adding that with lunch.

 

 

Sedating? I wonder if this has anything to do with the antilibido effect. Is it sedating to the extent that you would not feel responsible driving a car? Or is this more just relaxation than actual tiredness?

 

I have no doubt that a third dose would extend the acute effects. But the real question is, does it enhance the long term theraoeutic benefit? That would be hard to assess without cognitive and other tests.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 08 March 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[stan08]

I never had any problems taking it on an empty stomach. For me, that's saying a lot because I often have issues with supplements or food.

Funny you should mention the curve. I've been thinking about that since my last post and have actually decided to take a different approach. I'm going to try taking it three times a day; with breakfast, lunch and dinner (I have been taking 400 mg with breakfast and dinner). Even though it does work better on an empty stomach, I find it easier to remember to take it with my meals. Also, I've found the effects from 400 mg to be almost too strong on an empty stomach. With regard to effects, it completely eliminates my daily back pain and greatly reduces my anxiety and provides a little boost in mood (very good a helping balance my moods such that I stay calm and don't over-react to things like usual). Similar effects are experienced with taking it on an empty stomach. However, they're definitely stronger...especially the reduction in anxiety. The only problem is that it's kind of sedating. So, I've found taking it with food provides enough of the beneficial effects without being too sedating. Also, taking it twice each day seems to be the minimum for the benefits to last through the evening. I'm curious to see if a third dose will work even better. So, I'll be adding that with lunch.

Sedating? I wonder if this has anything to do with the antilibido effect. Is it sedating to the extent that you would not feel responsible driving a car? Or is this more just relaxation than actual tiredness?

I have no doubt that a third dose would extend the acute effects. But the real question is, does it enhance the long term theraoeutic benefit? That would be hard to assess without cognitive and other tests.

I have noticed an antilibido effect. Definitely not so sedating that I would worry about driving or anything. In fact, sedating might be too strong of a description...maybe more of a very relaxed feeling. I'm usually very high-strung. So, it's very useful before work and any other social interactions.

Another thing I've been thinking about is possibly combining longvida with another form like bcm-95 since longvida provides mostly curcumin while bcm-95 provides mostly metabolites. However, that might be overkill...

[stan08]

To expand on my above statement - I was thinking longvida would reduce brain inflammation (since curcumin can cross the blood brain barrier) while bcm-95 would reduce body inflammation (since the metabolites cannot cross the blood brain barrier). I had read a while back that many scientists think the metabolites might actually work better on inflammation...they just won't help with brain inflammation. An alternative would be stacking longvida and boswellia to work more through 5-lox.

[david ellis]

 

 

I wish curcumin wasn't such a libido-eraser...

BCM-95 curcumin wasn't a libido eraser for me.   But, it had effects on my immune system.   Cold sores on my lips.   I hadn't had them for 60 years, but they came back.   When I discontinued BCM-95 the cold sores left.    I knew about curcumin supporting the immune system, but dampening the immune system  is a negative for me, because I am worry about shingles.

 

BCM-95  was very effective against inflammation.  I used it during a period where I had two macular puckers-one in each eye. (a macular pucker results in vision similar to looking through cellophane) So I needed two operations.   An extra transparent layer grows over the macula when a floater (maybe endothelial cells) lands on it - so cellophane vision is a good description.    I am thankful for the surgeon's skill because I have  20/20 vision in one eye and 20/25 in the other.   I was able to accurately assess inflamation by viewing cross sectional views of the retina.   I saw correlation between decreases in inflammation and intake of BCM-95.

 

I have another vision anomaly, that I feel is due to inflammation.   The anomaly was a very small ellipse in my visual field that would pulse.  This mostly occured when I moved from inside the house and into the sun.    This anomaly only occurs when I have not taken the BCM-95.   I had bought BCM-95 only because it was in a gel, not in messy, fingers and clothes staining capsules.    So I was disappointed to discover  regular curcumin doesn't work quickly.  I decided to buy Longvida this time.

 

I am trying Longvida now.  This is my second day, so no report of better vision yet.      Hopefully the immune system dampening won't happen with Longvida and I get the reported immune system boost, and avoid the immune system dampening.

 

 

If you're worried about shingles, you might want to research the shingles vaccine.

 

Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that curcumin in any form would actually dampen the immune system, apart from lowering inflammation. Although the latter necessarily involves a decrease in proinflammatory cyotkine release, it's also associated with lower rates of cancer. So the net immune effect is actually broadly positive. Pending contrary virological data, I would bet that your cold sore return was the result of something else. Unfortunately, herpes is notoriously evasive because it resides in the nerves.

 

Vision improvement is not something I would normally associate with curcumin, but given your BCM95 results, it might work. Let us know.

 

 

[ceridwen]

I think it's possible that LLLT might destroy viruses and I'm thinking of taking this with curcumin. I think that should help.
The reason why it might destroy viruses. Rave reviews on Amazon from people who used infra red laser lights on their herpes virus. They got very good results.

[david ellis]

 

Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that curcumin in any form would actually dampen the immune system, apart from lowering inflammation. Although the latter necessarily involves a decrease in proinflammatory cyotkine release, it's also associated with lower rates of cancer. So the net immune effect is actually broadly positive. Pending contrary virological data, I would bet that your cold sore return was the result of something else. Unfortunately, herpes is notoriously evasive because it resides in the nerves.

 

Vision improvement is not something I would normally associate with curcumin, but given your BCM95 results, it might work. Let us know.

 

 

I was pretty sure that the curcumin was the cause, so I looked and found some stuff.  First, Ibuprofen and aspirin can inhibit T-cell formation.   Then I found another study that linked weakened T-Cells to a low response to chickenpox.   I know the curcumin literature is very strong about safety, but maybe there is a problem here.    Maybe, if there is a problem, there is a way around it.

Edited by david ellis, 09 March 2015 - 01:12 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

To expand on my above statement - I was thinking longvida would reduce brain inflammation (since curcumin can cross the blood brain barrier) while bcm-95 would reduce body inflammation (since the metabolites cannot cross the blood brain barrier). I had read a while back that many scientists think the metabolites might actually work better on inflammation...they just won't help with brain inflammation. An alternative would be stacking longvida and boswellia to work more through 5-lox.

 

If that's really true then just consuming a high grade of tumeric in your food might be a cheaper way to go for the non-CNS effects. I don't think there's anything wrong with BCM95, though.

[niner]

To expand on my above statement - I was thinking longvida would reduce brain inflammation (since curcumin can cross the blood brain barrier) while bcm-95 would reduce body inflammation (since the metabolites cannot cross the blood brain barrier). I had read a while back that many scientists think the metabolites might actually work better on inflammation...they just won't help with brain inflammation. An alternative would be stacking longvida and boswellia to work more through 5-lox.

 

Active metabolites are not super-common.  I'm not saying that this couldn't be the case with curcumin, but do you have any references that point to activity from curcumin metabolites? (particularly the glucuronide)

[Kalliste]

There seems to be something strange going on with curcumins metabolism in our body. Josh Mitteldorf had an interesting blog post on curcumin from a year ago. Interesting at least in the sense that he provides references.

 

 

It seems to be a common experimental finding that, after dosing a subject with turmeric or curcumin, no curcumin can be detected in the blood – and yet the full therapeutic benefit is being realized [Examples 1, 2, 3].  In some studies, curcumin could easily be found in urine samples, but was undetectable in the blood.  This situation suggests to me that something basic may be missing from our understanding of the metabolic chemistry of turmeric and curcuminoids.  Curcumin was identified more than 200 years ago as the active ingredient in turmeric, and most research up to this date has been designed and interpreted as though nothing else mattered but delivery of curcumin into the blood and thence into the body’s cells.  But perhaps there are metabolites that we have yet to identify, or perhaps a combination of chemicals acts synergistically.

A great deal of work has been done in recent years that is narrowly focused on delivery strategies that raise measured levels of curcumin in the blood.  This activity is commercially motivated.  Here is a promising herb that is cheap* and un-patentable, so companies are clamboring  to distinguish their products with proprietary processing for increased absorption.  But it may be that we don’t know enough yet to be sure that curcumin is all that matters, or that higher blood levels for longer times translate into better effectiveness.

Two issues of bioavailability are discussed in this this 2007 review:  First, inability to cross the stomach lining into the blood; second, the liver efficiently removes curcumin from the blood and breaks it down before it can be effective.  Liposomes address the first issue.  A liposome is a microscopic bubble of edible oil (“lipid”) which can carry a small quantity of chemical payload across the stomach wall.  Piperine (a chemical constituent of ordiary black pepper) addresses the second issue [ref], slowing breakdown of curcumin in the liver.  A phytosome is a liposome that contains a payload of multiple chemical species, and phytosomes are commercially available that combine curcumin with piperine.

Three formulations of curcumin with enhanced bio-availability are sold as Mervia, BCM-95 and Longvida.  All three use liposome microencapsulation, and include different proprietary ingredients and processes.  Dr Trutt describes the three, and recommends Longvida, based on indirect reasoning: Longvida has the most credible data for getting curcumin into the bloodstream, and only curcumin has been shown in lab tests based on cell biology to protect against Alzheimer’s Disease.  He may be right, but I would like to see some human or animal studies, since there are often surprises in the inference from cell culture to whole animal.

http://joshmitteldor...meric-curcumin/

[niner]

There seems to be something strange going on with curcumins metabolism in our body. Josh Mitteldorf had an interesting blog post on curcumin from a year ago. Interesting at least in the sense that he provides references.

 

 

He provides references, but he doesn't understand them.  None of the references (1,2, and 3) support his statement about no curcumin found in blood.  Reference 3 considers 13 microMolar in portal blood to be a "trace", which is amusing.  That's a pretty high concentration for a natural product.  They did say they didn't see it in heart blood in a rat, but it was probably just below their LOD.   Josh has no qualms about expounding on stuff he doesn't understand very well, and is a compelling writer, which probably explains why he's become the Pied Piper of Programmed Aging.