59 replies to this topic

[johnjuanb1]

Let talk about the benefits of kratom.

PAIN KILLING:
I've been using kratom for a little over 4 months now.
I have chronic knee pain due to a rare injury where my quadricep tendon was severed directly off my patella. This type of quad tear only constitutes 1% of quad tears. I also have a detached ACL, and multiple meniscus tears. Kratom is a miracle leaf in that it kills pain more effectively than morphine but is no more addictive than caffeine.
If used responsibly, meaning a few days a week, there is no down side to kratom.
ENERGY:
Kratom is unique in that when used in low doses it gives one loads of sustained energy. My favorite kratom strain for energy is MAENG DA. A little Maeng Da upon waking and I'm energized all day making my work day incredibly productive! A little Maeng Da mixed with some Red Thai or Bali preworkout and I'm energized and pain free.
Kratom is the best preworkout I've ever used!!!
ANXIETY:
I was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder. I have always suffered with anxiety which has made it difficult for me to feel comfortable in social settings.
Kratom completely removes anxiety all together. Within the first few days of using kratom at the gym I met several incredibly hot women, 2 of them models. I would have never had the confidence to do this before kratom, it blows my mind how much kratom has improved the quality of my life.
DIETING:
Kratom has made my precontest diet the easiest of my bodybuilding career. I started my dieting just before learning about kratom. It makes it so much easier. I'm always in a great mood, and I don't get the cravings I used to get precontest. My body fat is down to 5% and I feel amazing!

KRATOM's BENEFITS:

Pain relief (analgesic)
Reduced anxiety
Increased metabolism
Increased sexual performance and desire
Calming of opiate withdrawal
Control of blood sugar levels
Lowered blood pressure
Anti-oxidant cell protection
Anti-viral protection
Anti-bacterial protection
Overall immunity boost

Kratom contains over 20 times the number of antioxidants of green tea.
Long term kratom users often boast that they haven't had a cold/ flu in years.
The health and longevity benefits of kratom are numerous!!!.

[Werper]

Why don't you guys just keep the advertising to the banner you just put on longecity and save us the posting.   At least if you're gonna post,  balance it some of the negatives with Kratom-  Tolerance, addiction, can leave slight headaches..etc.

[johnjuanb1]

Why don't you guys just keep the advertising to the banner you just put on longecity and save us the posting. At least if you're gonna post, balance it some of the negatives with Kratom- Tolerance, addiction, can leave slight headaches..etc.

Everything in life has abuse potential. Too much water is unhealthy.
Kratom can be the most amazing natural supplement there is if used responsibly, meaning a few times per week. If used daily, long term in high doses, then yes, it can have withdrawal symptoms similar to that of seizing coffee after long term use. If you have propensity to abuse supplements then it may not be your best choice. If you struggle with anxiety, insomnia, and depression like I was then kratom can be a true life savor.

[Galaxyshock]

Basically you're taking a painkiller to ignore the warning signs your body is giving you of it breaking down and starvating to death.

[Werper]

Here is a study that was just posted on another thread that cites Kratom being cardiotoxic :

 

 

 

1. PLoS One. 2014 Dec 23;9(12):e115648. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0115648. eCollection 2014.

Evaluation of the cardiotoxicity of mitragynine and its analogues using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes.

Lu J(1), Wei H(2), Wu J(1), Jamil MF(3), Tan ML(4), Adenan MI(5), Wong P(2), Shim W(2).

Author information: (1)National Heart Research Institute Singapore, National Heart Centre Singapore, Singapore, Republic of Singapore. (2)National Heart Research Institute Singapore, National Heart Centre Singapore, Singapore, Republic of Singapore; Cardiovascular & Metabolic Disorders [...]

INTRODUCTION: Mitragynine is a major bioactive compound of Kratom, which is derived from the leave extracts of Mitragyna speciosa Korth or Mitragyna speciosa (M. speciosa), a medicinal plant from South East Asia used legally in many countries as stimulant with opioid-like effects for the treatment of chronic pain and opioid-withdrawal symptoms. Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest. In this study, we determined the cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents isolated using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (hiPSC-CMs). METHODS AND RESULTS: The rapid delayed rectifier potassium current (IKr), L-type Ca2+ current (ICa,L) and action potential duration (APD) were measured by whole cell patch-clamp. The expression of KCNH2 and cytotoxicity was determined by real-time PCR and Caspase activity measurements. After significant IKr suppression by Mitragynine (10 µM) was confirmed in hERG-HEK cells, we systematically examined the effects of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents in hiPSC-CMs. Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine and Speciociliatine, dosage-dependently (0.1∼100 µM) suppressed IKr in hiPSC-CMs by 67%∼84% with IC50 ranged from 0.91 to 2.47 µM. Moreover, Mitragynine (10 µM) significantly prolonged APD at 50 and 90% repolarization (APD50 and APD90) (439.0±11.6 vs. 585.2±45.5 ms and 536.0±22.6 vs. 705.9±46.1 ms, respectively) and induced arrhythmia, without altering the L-type Ca2+ current. Neither the expression, and intracellular distribution of KCNH2/Kv11.1, nor the Caspase 3 activity were significantly affected by Mitragynine. CONCLUSIONS: Our study indicates that Mitragynine and its analogues may potentiate Torsade de Pointes through inhibition of IKr in human cardiomyocytes.

PMCID: PMC4275233 PMID: 25535742 [PubMed - in process]

[johnjuanb1]

Basically you're taking a painkiller to ignore the warning signs your body is giving you of it breaking down and starvating to death.

You must be referring to Malaysian farmers who use kratom in order to work long days without taking in much in the way of nutrition?
Everyone I know that uses kratom here in the USA eats healthy. Kratom is loaded with antioxidants so it is the best way to increase your nutritive value if you are into health and longevity. Kratom is a supplement, and not meant to be substituted for food. I haven't had a cold since starting kratom back in August. It definitely bolsters your immune system.
For chronic pain suffered, kratom is a much safer, non toxic alternative to NSAIDs, prescription opiates, etc., with a much lower abuse potential. If abused, kratom is no where near as harsh as opiates in terms of withdrawal.

[johnjuanb1]

Here is a list of all the different alkyloids in kratom. It helps so many differnt aspects of general health. It has 20 times the antioxidants of green tea.


Ajmalicine (Raubasine): Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. Also found in Rauwolfia serpentina.

Akuammigine

Ciliaphylline: antitussive, analgesic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynantheidine: μ -opioid antagonist, also found in Yohimbe. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxeine: Calcium channel blocker. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Corynoxine A and B: Dopamine mediating anti-locomotives. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Epicatechin: Antioxidant, antiaggregant, antibacterial, antidiabetic,
antihepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, antimutagenic, antiperoxidant,
antiviral, potential cancer preventative, alpha-amylase inhibitor. Also found in dark chocolate.

9-Hydroxycorynantheidine: Partial opioid agonist

7-hydroxymitragynine: Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal; primary
psychoactive in Kratom, Roughly 2% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isomitraphylline: Immunostimulant, anti-leukemic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isomitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isopteropodine: Immunostimulant

Isorhynchophylline: Immunostimulant. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Isospeciofoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraciliatine: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine: Indole alkaloid. Analgesic, antitussive, antidiarrheal, adrenergic, antimalarial,
possible psychedelic (5-HT2A) antagonist. Roughly 66% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitragynine oxindole B. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitrafoline: < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Mitraphylline: Oxindole alkaloid. Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, antiamnesic, anti-leukemic, possible immunostimulant. <1% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Mitraversine

Paynantheine: Indole alkaloid. Smooth muscle relaxer. 8.6% to 9% of total alkaloid contents in Kratom leaf.

Rhynchophylline: Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker,
antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic. < 1% of total alkaloid content found in Kratom leaf.

Speciociliatine: Weak opioid agonist. 0.8% to 1% of total alkaloid content of Kratom leaf, unique to Kratom.

Speciofoline

Speciogynine: Smooth muscle relaxer. 6.6% to 7% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Speciophylline: Indole alkaloid. Anti-leukemic. <1% of total alkaloid contents of Kratom leaf.

Stipulatine

Tetrahydroalstonine: Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-2)

[Birt]

I've been having issues with anxiety.  I use xanax, but it just makes me feel zonked out.  One of my girlfriends said she takes kratom instead of her glass of wine at night.  Would it benefit me , or would it make me feel sleepy?

[johnjuanb1]

I've been having issues with anxiety. I use xanax, but it just makes me feel zonked out. One of my girlfriends said she takes kratom instead of her glass of wine at night. Would it benefit me , or would it make me feel sleepy?

Different kratom alkyloids affect energy levels differently. I use Maeng Da in the day time hours because it energizes, not like a traditional stimulant, but a very clean energy that is uplifting and motivates me to get things accomplished. Meang Da relieves pain, anxiety, and is very motivating.
For evening time stress relief without the abundance of energy I use Bali or Red Vein Thai. The red vein kratom varieties are more relaxing and best for pain relief.
Kratom will absolutely help your anxiety. It works similar to Xanax but doesn't leave you groggy.

[johnjuanb1]

Here is a pubmed study showing reduced anxiety from mitragyna, the main alkyloid in kratom:


Mitragynine attenuates withdrawal syndrome in morphine-withdrawn zebrafish.

Authors
Khor BS1, Jamil MF, Adenan MI, Shu-Chien AC.
Author information
Journal
PLoS One. 2011;6(12):e28340. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0028340. Epub 2011 Dec 21.

Affiliation
Abstract
A major obstacle in treating drug addiction is the severity of opiate withdrawal syndrome, which can lead to unwanted relapse. Mitragynine is the major alkaloid compound found in leaves of Mitragyna speciosa, a plant widely used by opiate addicts to mitigate the harshness of drug withdrawal. A series of experiments was conducted to investigate the effect of mitragynine on anxiety behavior, cortisol level and expression of stress pathway related genes in zebrafish undergoing morphine withdrawal phase. Adult zebrafish were subjected to two weeks chronic morphine exposure at 1.5 mg/L, followed by withdrawal for 24 hours prior to tests. Using the novel tank diving tests, we first showed that morphine-withdrawn zebrafish display anxiety-related swimming behaviors such as decreased exploratory behavior and increased erratic movement. Morphine withdrawal also elevated whole-body cortisol levels, which confirms the phenotypic stress-like behaviors. Exposing morphine-withdrawn fish to mitragynine however attenuates majority of the stress-related swimming behaviors and concomitantly lower whole-body cortisol level. Using real-time PCR gene expression analysis, we also showed that mitragynine reduces the mRNA expression of corticotropin releasing factor receptors and prodynorphin in zebrafish brain during morphine withdrawal phase, revealing for the first time a possible link between mitragynine's ability to attenuate anxiety during opiate withdrawal with the stress-related corticotropin pathway.

[renfr]

which form of kratom do you take? there are several such as thai, malay, indonesian kratom and apparently effects are different from one to another.
which kind of kratom do you take? there are several such as thai, malay, indonesian kratom and apparently effects are different from one to another.

[Birt]

which form of kratom do you take? there are several such as thai, malay, indonesian kratom and apparently effects are different from one to another.
which kind of kratom do you take? there are several such as thai, malay, indonesian kratom and apparently effects are different from one to another.

Yes, which one of these would be best for me?

[johnjuanb1]

I find it best to to rotate the strains to keep from adapting to any one strain.
I often mix strains though to get a combination of desired effects.
I actually just mixed Maeng Da and Bali. I'm about to go to the gym and lift weights. Maeng Da energizes me, and Bali helps relieve the pain in my bad knees. I have used most strains.
Super Indo: very relaxing, great for evening time to reduce anxiety and calm the nerves,
[/b]Red Vein Thai:[/b] strongest pain killer, euphoric, relieves anxiety.
Green Malaysian: this one is said to be both energizing and a good pain killer. I'm a bit stumped by this strain as sometimes it gives me energy and other times it relaxes me.
Horned Maeng Da: this feels like Maeng Da with the added benefits of red vein. It's energizing, euphoric, and really kills pain well.
enhanced Bali:this is Bali with added red vein resin. It is very uplifting, a good positive vibe. The resins are boiled down kratom leaves so all the alkyloids are in concentrated form making it very potent.
My favorite strains to mix are Maeng Da, Bali, and super Indo. I find energy from Maeng Da, pain relief without sedation from Bali, and I'm very social on super Indo. I mix these 3 with 50% Maeng Da, 30% Bali, and 20% super Indo.

[FW900]

Pain relief (analgesic)
Reduced anxiety
Increased metabolism
Increased sexual performance and desire
Calming of opiate withdrawal
Control of blood sugar levels
Lowered blood pressure   
Anti-oxidant cell protection
Anti-viral protection
Anti-bacterial protection
Overall immunity boost

 

 

There is no evidence to support most of these and it sounds like someone flat out made a couple of them up. Some of them are even laughable; for instance, opioids (including kratom) lower the male sex drive not increase.

[β-Endorphin]

 

Pain relief (analgesic)
Reduced anxiety
Increased metabolism
Increased sexual performance and desire
Calming of opiate withdrawal
Control of blood sugar levels
Lowered blood pressure   
Anti-oxidant cell protection
Anti-viral protection
Anti-bacterial protection
Overall immunity boost

 

 

There is no evidence to support most of these and it sounds like someone flat out made a couple of them up. Some of them are even laughable; for instance, opioids (including kratom) lower the male sex drive not increase.

 

I understand that Kratom is an opioid but it seems to have distinct characteristics from other opioids. For example, what opioids do you know that acts like a genuine psychostimulant in low doses? Some synthetic ones perhaps, but their effects are variable, making one person sleepy and another awake. With Kratom however, it seems that the general consensus is that it acts as a stimulant in everybody/nearly everybody at low doses. I’d imagine there are other stimulant-like alkaloids present in the leaf, perhaps being overridden by the opioid alkaloids at higher doses?

 

Regardless, Kratom is still considered a drug of abuse, with a side effect profile similar to opioids, a decent abuse potential and horrendous withdrawal symptoms:

 

 

BACKGROUND:

Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) preparations have been traditionally used in Southeast Asia for its medicinal properties. Lately, Kratom use has spread to Europe and the US, where abuse potential and health hazards increasingly emerge. This study is the first to measure systematically Kratom dependence, withdrawal symptoms, and drug craving in regular Kratom users in Malaysia.

METHODS:

A cross-sectional survey of 293 regular Kratom users was conducted in the community across three northern peninsular states of Malaysia. The Leeds Dependence Questionnaire, Marijuana Withdrawal Checklist, and Marijuana Craving Questionnaire-Short Form were used to measure Kratom dependence, withdrawal and craving.

RESULTS:

More than half of the regular users (>6 month of use) developed severe Kratom dependence problems, while 45% showed a moderate Kratom dependence. Physical withdrawal symptoms commonly experienced include muscle spasms and pain, sleeping difficulty, watery eyes/nose, hot flashes, fever, decreased appetite, and diarrhoea. Psychological withdrawal symptoms commonly reported were restlessness, tension, anger, sadness, and nervousness. The average amount of the psychoactive compound, mitragynine, in a single dose of a Kratom drink was 79mg, suggesting an average daily intake of 276.5mg. Regular users who consumed ≥3 glasses Kratom per day, had higher odds of developing severe Kratom dependence, withdrawal symptoms, and inability to control Kratom craving.

CONCLUSIONS:

The findings from this study show that regular Kratom use is associated with drug dependency, development of withdrawal symptoms, and craving. These symptoms become more severe with prolonged use and suggest a stronger control of the drug.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080

 

One drug user I used to know put it best, “Kratom is hydrocodone in leaf form”

Similar to hydrocodone, I’d imagine Kratom would be useful for managing severe chronic pain as an healthier alternative to prescription opioids(Because of it’s antioxidant content). I would also assume that Kratom would probably be highly effective for anxiety, depression and anhedonia in the short term, again like hydrocodone.

 

I just want to remind everybody what this herb really is; It’s natural hydrocodone. Don't fool yourself into believing it is safe and natural and will never hurt you. That is how addiction begins. If people feel the need to use it recreationally(ie as a replacement for alcohol) on special occasions then feel free to do so, as it is still technically legal in North America. Just be very careful, opioids have a tendency of being “The best drug in the world that cures everything and feels amazing”, which is why they are so hard to quit, and so hard to restrain yourself from taking them everyday. In terms of longevity, Kratom doesn’t seem to play very nice with the liver(https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=88678, https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=51161, https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=95669, https://www.erowid.o...p.php?ID=96857)With many users reporting severe hepatotoxicity from use:

 

A few months ago I purchased 15x extract after reading of the opium-like quality of this legal (in the U.S.) plant. I depleted the whole baggie within two weeks time, taking a strong dosage usually every other or third night. The effects were incredible at first: euphoria, warmth, bliss, everything you read in these forums. By the fourth dosage, everything went wrong. Within hours, I felt an intense, steadily increasing pain in my abdomen. The pain became so great that I was eventually curled up in a ball on my couch, vomiting helplessly on the floor. At the time, I figured I simply ate a dinner contaminated with some microbe. The next day however, I felt chills, my urine was the color of black tea, and I experienced an intense nausea. This condition would not go away. By the fifth day, I figured this was not a regular food contamination problem. By the fifth day, my whole body and eyes were a dark yellow color...jaundice had set in.

 

After several blood tests, and doctor's visits I was diagnosed with cholestatic hepatitis (or cholestatic hepatitis), a non-infectious liver disorder where your gall-bladder essentially shuts down for some time. My liver-panel blood test showed elevated ALT, AST, Alkaline Phosphate (a marker for gall-bladder health), bilirubin (the chemical that causes the yellow color of jaundice), and serum albumin levels. There was essentially no treatment, besides taking Compazine for the nausea, which in itself is a horrible drug (used in psychiatric wards to mellow out and dumb down residents).

 

My condition lasted two weeks. This was by far the worst illness I've ever experienced in my whole life. At times, I literally thought I would die. I understand that I have punctuated my story with drama, but I feel it is necessary to give caution to those that want to try this substance. It very well could have been that the extract was tainted with lab chemicals.

Source: https://www.erowid.o...xp.php?ID=71949

 

 

Consuming food/drink or Gaviscon/antacids made this worse, and the pain would run in cycles of intensity, lasting about 15mins. At the worst times, I would just be writhing in agony, unable to speak or do anything. As the day progressed, a feverish sensation came on, accompanied by chills, and generally feeling very ill. My urine was very dark and difficult to pass. This continued into the night, with the pain eventually subsiding.

After a bit of sleep, I felt a lot better the following day, although feeling feverish and ill, with mild abdominal pain still. Wasn't back to normal till the next evening. Any doubts I had that this was caused by Kratom were silenced when I foolishly did some more Kratom two weeks later, with EXACTLY the same after effects, plus the added feeling of being a total moron for inflicting this on myself. Whether this was a contaminated batch of Kratom or something inherent to Kratom powders I don't know. The powder seemed hydrophobic and difficult to mix with anything; I can imagine it not doing any favours at all for the digestive system. It is worrying that there doesn't seem to be any real information on Kratom's toxic effects, either short or long term, except for vague anecdotal accounts, especially now this stuff is so readily available. Most of the vendors seem to be covering themselves, with the old 'not for human consumption' line, so they are obviously not too concerned about what is in these 'extracts'.

Source: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=51161

 

 

I will divide the experience into two. Day 1, took .25g and felt the regularly reported effects; euphoria, slight buzz... I felt good. The day after is when things got ugly: I developed a horrible stomach ache that radiated to my back, I could barely breath. I felt as if I had indigestion and constipation, in an effort to clear my painful intestines I downed some milk of magnesia. The pain had me unable to go to the gym for a week, I was almost bed ridden for these days.

Fast forward to day 2; 2 weeks later, I decide to give Kratom a try again since I didn't think that the pains and Kratom were related. Boy was I wrong. downed .25grams again and same as last time, I got the feeling of euphoria, light buzz and well being set in rather quickly (20 min). I enjoyed this for 3 hours and went to sleep sober at about 11pm. The real fun began at 3am when I was woken up by stomach pains. I woke up and went to the guest bedroom so as not to wake up my wife, and played some X-box waiting for this feeling to pass so I could get back to bed. That didn't happen; 45 minutes later I was on the floor of the bathroom in fetal position gasping for air, it was the same pain that I had two weeks ago, only stronger, it had radiated to my back and I could barely breathe. The pain would last for about 20 minutes, and suddenly go away... only to come back again 5 minutes later. I lasted in this roller coaster all of 5 hours, when I decided to drive myself to the ER.. the pain was so intense I was very worried about crashing on my way there, even if the ER is only 15 blocks away. if I pressed my hands around my gallbladder I felt I was being stabbed.

Source: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=93736

 

By the looks of it, Kratom is horrible for longevity. For normal healthy people, it seems Kratom will kill your liver. Though in people who have to take painkillers every day to function(In severe pain), Kratom may be worth looking into, assuming they don’t have any horrible liver reactions to it.

 

If anybody is planning on taking it, please look at all the other options before trying kratom. To birt, try taking some Kava or L-theanine before you jump right on to a powerful and hepatotoxic opioid.

 

To the OP, I recommend you really look over ALL of the evidence and determine if Kratom is really worth it for anxiety and knee pain treatment.

Edited by β-Endorphin, 24 February 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[johnjuanb1]

I use the leaf powder. Maybe that extract had something else in it. I've been using kratom since August and never experienced any form of odd urine color or abdominal pain. The opiate aspect is only from two of the 40 or so alkyloids in kratom. It also has alkyloids that are calcium channel blockers which lower blood pressure. I no longer have to take prescription blood pressure meds because my bp is 118/79. I used to have to take a calcium channel blocker called norvasc and also clonidine HCL.
Kratom relaxes smooth muscle which reducing work load on the heart. It systemically reduces cortisol.
As with anything there is no perfect drug. You have to use kratom in moderation. I think it smart to avoid extracts and tinctures as they are more like street drugs with heavily concentrated amounts of mitragyna and 7-hydroxymitragynine in them.
Anything that has abuse potential is a risk no doubt but for me kratom took me from a very unhappy place to a very hopeful life. The best advice I can give if you try kratom is to keep the dose low and avoid daily use. If you have an addictive personality than it may not be your best alternative. If you view kratom as a supplement to health that must be used intermittently then it can be a valuable asset to life.

[β-Endorphin]

I use the leaf powder. Maybe that extract had something else in it. I've been using kratom since August and never experienced any form of odd urine color or abdominal pain. The opiate aspect is only from two of the 40 or so alkyloids in kratom. It also has alkyloids that are calcium channel blockers which lower blood pressure. I no longer have to take prescription blood pressure meds because my bp is 118/79. I used to have to take a calcium channel blocker called norvasc and also clonidine HCL.
Kratom relaxes smooth muscle which reducing work load on the heart. It systemically reduces cortisol.
As with anything there is no perfect drug. You have to use kratom in moderation. I think it smart to avoid extracts and tinctures as they are more like street drugs with heavily concentrated amounts of mitragyna and 7-hydroxymitragynine in them.
Anything that has abuse potential is a risk no doubt but for me kratom took me from a very unhappy place to a very hopeful life. The best advice I can give if you try kratom is to keep the dose low and avoid daily use. If you have an addictive personality than it may not be your best alternative. If you view kratom as a supplement to health that must be used intermittently then it can be a valuable asset to life.

It seems that hepatotoxicity only happens right away to certain people, it could very well be causing you long term liver damage with no symptoms. The problem is there are no/little studies done on it. Other than rumours and folklore. I don't believe the amount of alkaloids in the plant matters, rather the concentration. For example, Morphine is only one out of the 30-40 different alkaloids in the opium poppy, yet is responsible for most to all of the plants effects. 

 

Opiates as a whole lower blood pressure and breathing, and may induce dangerously low blood pressure and hypoventilation. They also lower cortisol. That is, of course, as long as you keep taking it. Once you stop withdrawal kicks in, and cortisol and blood pressure skyrocket.

 

I just want to be clear in saying i'm not attacking you or demonizing the herb. I just want everybody who decides to use this herb to see both sides of the story, instead of seeing it as a magical herb that cures everything and has no downsides to use. Be safe in your use, and keep your mind open to the idea that Kratom may have downsides to its use.

[zeropoint]

  I find kratom useful IN MODERATION.....for reasons given by OP

 

 Some downsides for me----mild constipation,not sure if it's from the tannins or opiod type mechanisms.Would be useful for some cases of diahrea I'd imagine.Immodium substitute sort of.

                                           taste---can make one gag almost throw-up,an anti-abuse effect from the herb possibly?Not all strains have this though and sometimes don't mind the taste.(weird)'

                                           mildly habit-forming--like coffee....less than nicotine....on my 2days a week to have it I look forward to having kratom tea time.Though last night gagged on the last of it(the tea grinds got cold )

 

 Mix fresh lemon juice with kratom tea ,you can use less kratom per dose.(increases alkaloid bioavailability as ascorbates are better absorbed) Drink the grinds also in case some elements are not water soluble,we want full spectrum here.

 

Mild anxiety reducing effect feels non-GABA mediated,in other words not like alcohol,phenibut,benzos---different is all---weird since kratom alkaloids are related to yohimbe alkaloids and yohimbe for me is mostly anxiogenic(anxiety producing)....

[Birt]

I've been doing research and from I have read it seems safe, if you use leaf powder.  That is what I'll buy and then report back if it helps my anxiety....

[johnjuanb1]

I've been doing research and from I have read it seems safe, if you use leaf powder. That is what I'll buy and then report back if it helps my anxiety....

I find that Bali is very good for anxiety. It's quite uplifting.

[β-Endorphin]

I've been doing research and from I have read it seems safe, if you use leaf powder.  That is what I'll buy and then report back if it helps my anxiety....

Alright Good luck. Try to start at a very low dose and take some milk thistle to help with any possible liver damage from Kratom use. Also make sure you have somebody available to drive you to the hospital just in case you're in so much pain you can't drive yourself. Try to start with lower than the lowest dose, again the goal here is to find the lowest therapeutic dose. It would probably be wise if you don't combine any other supplements with kratom, in fear of extra stress on the liver.

 

Report back soon.

[Al Capacino]

I've been taking kratom for a year now. Sometimes couple days a week, sometimes everyday.
I use low doses between 1g and 3g mainly.
Great anxiety relief and mood boost.
I suffer major depression and anxiety and have been on and off pharmaceuticals for 10 years nearly. Kratom is easily amongst the best relief I've had. Good for pain relief and motivation too and has helped me keep my job.
But there are downsides such as it leaving u a little zombie like from the sedative effect after initial burst of motivation.
Nothing compared to anti psychotics other sedative anti depressants though.
Be wary of addiction. I've become quite dependent due to being able to manage work on this but it doesn't really provide stability in a long term sense, just short term relief.
always use pure leaf rather than extract to help protect liver.
As for kava instead of kratom due to potential liver toxicity in kratom? Well kava is banned in UK for that exact reason and has far more evidence against it for liver toxicity than kratom does...

[Birt]

 

I've been doing research and from I have read it seems safe, if you use leaf powder.  That is what I'll buy and then report back if it helps my anxiety....

Alright Good luck. Try to start at a very low dose and take some milk thistle to help with any possible liver damage from Kratom use. Also make sure you have somebody available to drive you to the hospital just in case you're in so much pain you can't drive yourself. Try to start with lower than the lowest dose, again the goal here is to find the lowest therapeutic dose. It would probably be wise if you don't combine any other supplements with kratom, in fear of extra stress on the liver.

 

Report back soon.

 

Why must you be such a smartass?  No reason to be a jerk.  My friend told me I'd enjoy this forum but your comments are giving me a bad impression.

[β-Endorphin]

 

 

I've been doing research and from I have read it seems safe, if you use leaf powder.  That is what I'll buy and then report back if it helps my anxiety....

Alright Good luck. Try to start at a very low dose and take some milk thistle to help with any possible liver damage from Kratom use. Also make sure you have somebody available to drive you to the hospital just in case you're in so much pain you can't drive yourself. Try to start with lower than the lowest dose, again the goal here is to find the lowest therapeutic dose. It would probably be wise if you don't combine any other supplements with kratom, in fear of extra stress on the liver.

 

Report back soon.

 

Why must you be such a smartass?  No reason to be a jerk.  My friend told me I'd enjoy this forum but your comments are giving me a bad impression.

 

I didn't mean to give of the impression of a jerk. Sorry about that. I'm sorry that I came off in a bad light. That was not my intent. 

Edited by β-Endorphin, 25 February 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[β-Endorphin]

I've been digging up some studies on Kratom's Health Effects and it's not looking good:

 

 

Abstract ETHNOPHARMACOLOGICAL RELEVANCE:

Mitragyna speciosa Korth (ketum) is widely used in Malaysia as a medicinal agent for treating diarrhea, worm infestations and also acts as an analgesic and antipyretic.

AIM:

The aim of the study is to determine the acute toxicity of Mitragyna speciosa Korth standardized methanol extract in vivo in 4-weeks-old Sprague-Dawley rats.

METHODOLOGY:

Rats were orally administrated single dose of 100, 500 and 1000 mg/kg Mitragyna speciosa Korth standardized methanol extract and the control group received 430 mg/kg of morphine orally. There were 10 rats in each group. All animals were sacrificed after 14 days of treatment. Eight parameters were tested: cage side observation, body weight measurement, food and water consumption, blood pressure, absolute and relative organ weight, hematology, biochemical analysis and histopathology, to look for evidence of toxicity.

RESULT:

No mortality was noted after 14 days of treatment. In general, behavior, food and water consumption, hematological studies and organ weights showed no significant changes. The standardized methanol extraction of Mitragyna speciosa Korth increased rat blood pressure (systolic: 147.4+/-1.01, 131.64+/-4.94 and 137.8+/-4.46) after an hour of 100, 500 and 1000 mg/kg doses, respectively. Biochemical studies showed significant elevation of ALT, AST, albumin, triglycerides, cholesterol and albumin (p>0.05), at all levels of doses. But, nephrotoxicity evidenced by elevated creatinine was seen only at a dose of 1000 mg/kg. Histological examination showed congestion of sinusoids, hemorrhage hepatocytes, fatty change, centrilobular necrosis and increased number of Kuppfer cells in the liver of all Mitragyna speciosa Korth standardized methanol extract treated groups.

CONCLUSION:

Oral administration of standardized methanolic extraction of Mitragyna speciosa Korth resulted in increasing rat blood pressure after an hour of drug administration. The highest dose of extract also induced acute severe hepatotoxicity and mild nephrotoxicity. However, Mitragyna speciosa Korth shows no effects on body weight, food and water consumption, absolute and relative organ weight and also hematology parameters.

 

 

^High Doses cause severe hepatotoxicity and mild nephrotoxicity, with lower doses also showing signs of liver damage(centriobular necrosis, sinusoid congestion etc.)

 

 

Introduction

Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) is a common medical plant in Thailand and is known to contain mitragynine as the main alkaloid. According to an increase in published reports and calls at German poison control centers, it has been used more frequently as a drug of abuse in the western hemisphere during the last couple of years. Despite this increase, reports of severe toxicity are rare within the literature.

Case report

We describe a case of a young man who presented with jaundice and pruritus after intake of kratom for 2 weeks in the absence of any other causative agent. Alkaloids of M. speciosa were detected in the urine.

Conclusion

While M. speciosa is gaining in popularity among illicit drug users, its adverse effects remain poorly understood. This is the first published case of intrahepatic cholestasis after kratom abuse.

 

 

^Severe Hepatotoxicity in a young man who swallowed kratom twice a day for 2 weeks. He seemed to be taking high doses, though.

 

 

Abstract

Mitragynine is the major psychoactive alkaloid of the plant kratom/ketum. Kratom is widely used in Southeast Asia as a recreational drug, and increasingly appears as a pure compound or a component of 'herbal high' preparations in the Western world. While mitragynine/kratom may have analgesic, muscle relaxant and anti-inflammatory effects, its addictive properties and effects on cognitive performance are unknown. We isolated mitragynine from the plant and performed a thorough investigation of its behavioural effects in rats and mice. Here we describe an addictive profile and cognitive impairments of acute and chronic mitragynine administration, which closely resembles that of morphine. Acute mitragynine has complex effects on locomotor activity. Repeated administration induces locomotor sensitization, anxiolysis and conditioned place preference, enhances expression of dopamine transporter- and dopamine receptor-regulating factor mRNA in the mesencephalon. While there was no increase in spontaneous locomotor activity during withdrawal, animals showed hypersensitivity towards small challenging doses for up to 14 days. Severe somatic withdrawal signs developed after 12 hours, and increased level of anxiety became evident after 24 hours of withdrawal. Acute mitragynine independently impaired passive avoidance learning, memory consolidation and retrieval, possibly mediated by a disruption of cortical oscillatory activity, including the suppression of low-frequency rhythms (delta and theta) in the electrocorticogram. Chronic mitragynine administration led to impaired passive avoidance and object recognition learning. Altogether, these findings provide evidence for an addiction potential with cognitive impairments for mitragynine, which suggest its classification as a harmful drug.

 

 

^Short term use of Kratom causes impaired passive avoidance learning, memory consolidation and retrieval, with long term Kratom use causing impaired passive avoidance learning and object recognition learning in rats

 

 

Abstract

Reports of toxicity secondary to Kratom are rare and lack of diagnostic testing in human specimens has prevented confirmatory explanation of observed clinical effects. We present a novel case of serious human toxicity following Kratom use confirmed via quantitative analysis of urine by high performance liquid chromatography coupled to electrospray tandem mass spectrometry. A 64 year-old male was witnessed to have a seizure at home following kratom consumption. Upon arrival to the emergency department (ED), the patient was unresponsive. While in the ED, the patient sustained a second seizure. He was intubated to protect his airway. The remainder of his hospital course was uneventful. A urine specimen was collected shortly after admission and sent for analysis. The mitragynine concentration in the urine was 167 ± 15 ng/ml. We report a rare case of Kratom toxicity characterized by a seizure and coma confirmed by urinary analysis of mitragynine by high performance liquid chromatography coupled to electrospray tandem mass spectrometry. The proposed mechanism for this reaction is unclear but suggested mechanisms include adenosine binding or stimulation of adrenergic and/or serotonergic receptors similar to tramadol.

 

 

^Severe toxicity from Kratom in a 63 year old man, he suffered two seizures after ingestion and was unresponsive there afterwards

 

 

INTRODUCTION:

Mitragynine is a major bioactive compound of Kratom, which is derived from the leave extracts of Mitragyna speciosa Korth or Mitragyna speciosa (M. speciosa), a medicinal plant from South East Asia used legally in many countries as stimulant with opioid-like effects for the treatment of chronic pain and opioid-withdrawal symptoms. Fatal incidents with Mitragynine have been associated with cardiac arrest. In this study, we determined the cardiotoxicity of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents isolated using human induced pluripotent stem cell-derived cardiomyocytes (hiPSC-CMs).

METHODS AND RESULTS:

The rapid delayed rectifier potassium current (IKr), L-type Ca2+ current (ICa,L) and action potential duration (APD) were measured by whole cell patch-clamp. The expression of KCNH2 and cytotoxicity was determined by real-time PCR and Caspase activity measurements. After significant IKr suppression by Mitragynine (10 µM) was confirmed in hERG-HEK cells, we systematically examined the effects of Mitragynine and other chemical constituents in hiPSC-CMs. Mitragynine, Paynantheine, Speciogynine and Speciociliatine, dosage-dependently (0.1∼100 µM) suppressed IKr in hiPSC-CMs by 67%∼84% with IC50 ranged from 0.91 to 2.47 µM. Moreover, Mitragynine (10 µM) significantly prolonged APD at 50 and 90% repolarization (APD50 and APD90) (439.0±11.6 vs. 585.2±45.5 ms and 536.0±22.6 vs. 705.9±46.1 ms, respectively) and induced arrhythmia, without altering the L-type Ca2+ current. Neither the expression, and intracellular distribution of KCNH2/Kv11.1, nor the Caspase 3 activity were significantly affected by Mitragynine.

CONCLUSIONS:

Our study indicates that Mitragynine and its analogues may potentiate Torsade de Pointes through inhibition of IKr in human cardiomyocytes.

 

^Kratom seems to be cardiotoxic in vitro, it induces heart arrhythmias and seems to potentiate Torsade de Pointes, a fatal heart condition.

 

Conclusion

In conclusion, MS(Mitragyna speciosa) reduced fEPSP in the CA1 region concentration-dependently and the IC50 of MS (0.008%) blocked LTP. The discovery of which specific biocompound of MS is responsible for the mechanism might be an important subject for future research.

 

Source: http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380788400_Senik%20et%20al%20%20%2019.pdf

^Kratom blocked LTP(Long-term Potentiation) in vitro

 

 

 

I feel as though I am being too biased on this issue and i'm probably cracking down on Kratom way too harshly, so to balance out this post, I'm going to post some positive health effects of Kratom:

 

BACKGROUND:

To investigate the antioxidant value and anticancer functions of mitragynine (MTG) and its silane-reduced analogues (SRM) in vitro.

MATERIALS AND METHODS:

MTG and SRM was analyzed for their reducing power ability, ABTS radical inhibition and 1,1-diphenyl-2-picryl hydrazylfree radicals scavenging activities. Furthermore, the antiproliferation efficacy was evaluated using MTT assay on K 562 and HCT116 cancer cell lines versus NIH/3T3 and CCD18-Co normal cell lines respectively.

RESULTS:

SRM and MTG demonstrate moderate antioxidant value with ABTS assay (Trolox equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC): 2.25±0.02 mmol trolox / mmol and 1.96±0.04 mmol trolox / mmol respectively) and DPPH (IC50=3.75±0.04 mg/mL and IC50=2.28±0.02 mg/mL respectively). Both MTG and SRM demonstrate equal potency (IC50=25.20±1.53 and IC50= 22.19±1.06 respectively) towards K 562 cell lines, comparable to control, betulinic acid (BA) (IC5024.40±1.26). Both compounds showed concentration-dependent cytototoxicity effects and exert profound antiproliferative efficacy at concentration > 100 μM towards HCT 116 and K 562 cancer cell lines, comparable to those of BA and 5-FU (5-Fluorouracil). Furthermore, both MTG and SRM exhibit high selectivity towards HCT 116 cell lines with selective indexes of 3.14 and 2.93 respectively compared to 5-FU (SI=0.60).

CONCLUSIONS:

These findings revealed that the medicinal and nutitional values of mitragynine obtained from ketum leaves that growth in tropical forest of Southeast Asia and its analogues does not limited to analgesic properties but could be promising antioxidant and anticancer or chemopreventive compounds.

 

 

^Kratom has very potent anticancer activity, and seems promising for the treatment of cancer.

 

Abstract: Studies on the antioxidant and antimicrobial activities of Mitragyna speciosa leaf extracts are lacking. In this study the antioxidant properties of water, methanolic and alkaloid M. speciosa leaf extracts were evaluated using the DPPH (2,2-diphenyl-1- picrylhydrazyl) radical scavenging method. The amount of total phenolics and flavanoid contents were also estimated. The DPPH IC50 values of the aqueous, alkaloid and methanolic extracts were 213.4, 104.81 and 37.08 μg/mL, respectively. The total phenolic content of the aqueous, alkaloid and methanolic extracts were 66.0 mg, 88.4, 105.6 mg GAE/g, respectively, while the total flavanoid were 28.2, 20.0 and 91.1 mg CAE/g respectively. The antioxidant activities were correlated with the total phenolic content. This result suggests that the relatively high antioxidant activity of the methanolic extract compared to aqueous and alkaloid extract could be possibly be due to its high phenolic content. The aqueous, alkaloid and methanolic extracts were screened for antimicrobial activity. The extracts showed antimicrobial activity against Salmonella typhi and Bacillus subtilis. The minimum inhibitory concentrations (MICs) of extracts determined by the broth dilution method ranged from 3.12 to 6.25 mg/mL. The alkaloid extract was found to be most effective against all of the tested organisms.

 

^Kratom has very potent antibiotic and antioxidant activity

 

 

Abstract

Mitragyna speciosa Korth. leaves have been used for decades as a traditional medicine to treat diarrhea, diabetes and to improve blood circulation by natives of Malaysia, Thailand and other regions of Southeast Asia. Mitragynine is the major active alkaloid in the plant. To date, the role of mitragynine in psychological disorders such as depression is not scientifically evaluated. Hence, the present investigation evaluates the antidepressant effect of mitragynine in the mouse forced swim test (FST) and tail suspension test (TST), two models predictive of antidepressant activity and the effect of mitragynine towards neuroendocrine system of hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis by measuring the corticosterone concentration of mice exposed to FST and TST. An open-field test (OFT) was used to detect any association of immobility in the FST and TST with changes in motor activity of mice treated with mitragynine. In the present study, mitragynine at dose of 10 mg/kg and 30 mg/kg i.p. injected significantly reduced the immobility time of mice in both FST and TST without any significant effect on locomotor activity in OFT. Moreover, mitragynine significantly reduced the released of corticosterone in mice exposed to FST and TST at dose of 10 mg/kg and 30 mg/kg. Overall, the present study clearly demonstrated that mitragynine exerts an antidepressant effect in animal behavioral model of depression (FST and TST) and the effect appears to be mediated by an interaction with neuroendocrine HPA axis systems.

 

 

^Kratom acted as a potent antidepressant in animal models of depression

[zeropoint]

I worry more about eating GMO food than eating kratom....

 

while your at it dig up health studies related to GMO food, you'll probably find more research on kratom than gmo effects,lol.

Edited by zeropoint, 26 February 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[johnjuanb1]

I've been taking kratom for a year now. Sometimes couple days a week, sometimes everyday.
I use low doses between 1g and 3g mainly.
Great anxiety relief and mood boost.
I suffer major depression and anxiety and have been on and off pharmaceuticals for 10 years nearly. Kratom is easily amongst the best relief I've had. Good for pain relief and motivation too and has helped me keep my job.
But there are downsides such as it leaving u a little zombie like from the sedative effect after initial burst of motivation.
Nothing compared to anti psychotics other sedative anti depressants though.
Be wary of addiction. I've become quite dependent due to being able to manage work on this but it doesn't really provide stability in a long term sense, just short term relief.
always use pure leaf rather than extract to help protect liver.
As for kava instead of kratom due to potential liver toxicity in kratom? Well kava is banned in UK for that exact reason and has far more evidence against it for liver toxicity than kratom does...

Excellent post! You summed up my situation very accurately.
And I agree, I don't buy into the liver toxicity deal as kratom has been used for thousands of years daily in Asia. If kratom was so hard on the liver there would be an epidemic of hepatitis wide spread. Kratom use is rampant in Asia and masses aren't dropping like flies.

[Tree93]

I didn't read the whole thread but did a study suggest it is cardiotoxic? 3 year plain leaf user here, for anxiety (both the mental aspect and physical tension) and depression and from the hundreds of hours I've spent researching and gathering anecdotes it seems to have a positive effect on the majority of the body and it's organs, at least that's what most of the older users tell me their blood/etc tests come back with after years of daily use of plain leaf... There has been a rare case or two of liver toxicity that always occurs in the first 4 weeks of use or not at all. It's apparently great for people with diabetes too, but I can't find the source. 

 

It is addictive, don't kid yourself into thinking you can use it every other day. Twice a week, sure, but don't push it. I had a hard time with that because it increased my productivity, grades, made me cut out alcohol (frequent user) and prescription valium. It was all worth it despite the chemical dependence. my aqnxiety is maneagable and my depression is non-existant, and I never really increase my dosage, except recently I was stupid and moved from 2x-3x/day, just for the fact that I liked having a little extra before bed. IU'm now paying the consequences with a slow taper. For years I have used only 10-13 grams per day.

Edited by Tree93, 27 February 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[β-Endorphin]

I didn't read the whole thread but did a study suggest it is cardiotoxic? 3 year plain leaf user here, for anxiety (both the mental aspect and physical tension) and depression and from the hundreds of hours I've spent researching and gathering anecdotes it seems to have a positive effect on the majority of the body and it's organs, at least that's what most of the older users tell me their blood/etc tests come back with after years of daily use of plain leaf... There has been a rare case or two of liver toxicity that always occurs in the first 4 weeks of use or not at all. It's apparently great for people with diabetes too, but I can't find the source. 

 

It is addictive, don't kid yourself into thinking you can use it every other day. Twice a week, sure, but don't push it. I had a hard time with that because it increased my productivity, grades, made me cut out alcohol (frequent user) and prescription valium. It was all worth it despite the chemical dependence. my aqnxiety is maneagable and my depression is non-existant, and I never really increase my dosage, except recently I was stupid and moved from 2x-3x/day, just for the fact that I liked having a little extra before bed. IU'm now paying the consequences with a slow taper. For years I have used only 10-13 grams per day.

From what i've researched it seems like there is little to no studies actually done on Kratoms effects on health. Of the limited preliminary studies actually done, it seems that kratom induces heart arrhythmias and is cardiotoxic in vitro, and it causes very noticeable liver damage and memory loss/cognitive impairments in rats. Interestingly, in the study that showed that kratom caused liver damage in rats, it said that the rats were completely asymptomatic; they had no symptoms. So I imagine that perhaps a similar thing could be happening in humans; people using kratom could be constantly damaging their liver, yet have no symptoms. In humans doing kratom, their liver is not inflamed and appears normal. Perhaps the powerful anti-inflammatory effects of kratom prevents the liver from inflaming as it would normally do when being damaged, thus making it appear normal in tests when infact it is being constantly damaged.

 

Interestingly, in asian culture it seems it is very well known that long term kratom use causes darkening of the skin of the face, a very common symptom of liver cirrhosis(A form of liver disease). I haven't really seen any studies showing no damaging effects on the organs or the body, could you refer me to some of the studies you have found?

Edited by β-Endorphin, 27 February 2015 - 02:23 AM.

[fntms]

The cardiotoxicity study might have been in vitro but it was made to investigate why kratom users were dying from heart failure...