11 replies to this topic

[playground]

This thread has been created to explore the longevity and health benefits of following

a ketogenic diet (KD).

 

The benefits of a KD came to my attention whilst researching treatments

for Type 2 Diabetes (T2D) and Alzheimer's aka Type 3 Diabetes (T3D)

 

I'd like to kick off this thread by offering this 'overview' of KD

 

 

playground.

 

[playground]

This TED talk by Sarah Hallberg on Type 2 Diabetes cured by ....... a low carbs, high fat diet.

There are essential fatty acids.

There are essential amino acids.

But there are _no_ essential carbohydrates.

The daily minimum requirement of carbohydrates is .... 0 grams.

 

According to Sarah Hallberg the cause of diabetes is carbohydrates.

Hence, she advocates a low carb, high fat diet.

 

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 03 July 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[playground]

Interesting interview with Prof. Tom Seyfried about Ketogenic diet for treating  cancers.

 

 

 

He makes some excellent points about how medical care revolves around financial not

medical considerations.  The industry which is ostensibly focused on medical care, is in

reality focused on revenue extraction.

 

Big Med / Big Pharma will  not like the idea that billions upon billions  of cancer drugs,

cancer care and cancer therapy revenues may vanish because of ketogenic (or other

metabolic) treatments.

 

Expect misinformation and disinformation.

Expect review papers proclaiming that the ketogenic diet is dangerous,  causes cancer

or causes heart attacks... etc.

Expect to read 'ridiculing' of the proponents of the keto-genic diet.

It will all be lies.

 

There's an interesting anti-ketogenic diet 'propaganda' interview with Dr Gonzalez,

(the pancreas enzymes man) basically saying .. 'keto diets don't work'.

Let's not forget that Gonzalez sells his own brand of cancer cure.

 

 

 

 

The thing about this whole 'keto-diets for cancer' area that strikes me as bizarre

is that the explicit explanation is in terms of the Warburg Hypothesis; that cancer cells

need glucose to grow and proliferate.... and can't proliferate without it.

 

It's bizarre because.... all cells in the human body can use either glucose or ketones as fuel.

And yet... cancer cells, which are human cells, can only use glucose and not glucose.

That, to me, seems astronomically unlikely.

Each cell has a hugely complicated machinery for creating energy from glucose.

And, each sell has another hugely complicated machinery for creating energy from ketones.

The suggestion is that cancer cells, uniquely amongst human cells, somehow don't have

the hugely complicated machinery for creating energy from ketones ??

 

Glucose is used ubiquitously as an energy source across the animal kingdom, mammals,

fish,  bacteria, molds, fungi, etc   can use glucose as an energy source.

The use of ketones, as an energy source is much less widespread... you need to be a bigger

organism ....and much more highly evolved than bacteria .... to use ketones.

 

It's much more likely that the keto-genic diet works against cancers because those  cancers

are caused by a bacterial or viral pathogen; like Chlamydia Pneumoniae, helicobacter pylori, etc.

It's much more likely that it is bacteria and viruses that can't use ketones, rather than cancer cells.

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 04 July 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[playground]

Extremely interesting presentation by Dr Wortman on ketogenic diet on

diabetes and other chronic conditions (including Alzheimer's)

 

All that stuff we've been told for decades about saturated fat being 'toxic'

and how, for good health, what we should do is eat a low fat diet... all bullshit, it seems.

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 04 July 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[playground]

Inevitably...  here's Dr Mercola getting in on the act.... interviewing Dr D'Agostino  (108 mins)

 

 

 

Edited by playground, 04 July 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

First of all, I think there's really something to the science here, so I think this thread is a great idea. That said, it's prudent to be aware of the criticisms.

 

To that end, the main threads criticizing the ketogenic diet appear to be this and this. Based on my own positive experience, I think the implication is that it's very easy to do keto wrong, and end up concluding that it's either unsustainable, or results in "constipation (a favorite topic of discussion on low-carb forums), repulsive breath and body odor, irritability, and numerous other unpleasant symptoms" as it says in the first aforelinked thread. Indeed, I had to give up on my first attempt back in 2005, because I simply couldn't stand the insatiable thirst. I now realize that electrolyte management is absolutely critical to success. But it's easier said than done, and noobies require careful monitoring until they learn to recognize the signals of electrolyte imbalance in either direction. Now, since restarting in 2/2015, I rarely suffer any of those alleged side effects. For one thing, I haven't been to the dentist in years, but have no tooth decay or bad breath. And the constipation is easily avoided by eating low-sugar veggies or a few spoons of chia seeds with meat or cheese. (I don't eat red meat, which is notorious for constipation and other problems.)

 

As to the alleged connection to arterial stiffness, it might be due to a confounding effect (such as eating industrial oils because hey, they're fats, too). All I can say is that my blood pressure seems to be about 10 points lower on average, than prior to starting the diet.

 

I've also found that the particular brand of oil which one consumes matters immensely, because it can be the difference between fuelling up enough to get through the day, and avoiding oil intake because it's disgusting. I started out with extra virgin coconut oil, then moved on to cheap refined MCT oil with a nasty processed taste. Now, I'm consuming truly boring high grade MCT oil, which has allowed me to consume more of it each day.

 

One other thing... it takes a while, maybe a few weeks or a month, to get used to it. The transition isn't fun. And once you're on the diet, it's still not fun, but it becomes acceptable. Once a week, I eat a can of beans and a packet of raw nuts for some variety. (Yeah, that's how exciting it is.) Otherwise, I just eat tons of brocolli to make the butter go down. That, and a few other unstimulating foods. At the end of the day, my loss of gastronomic entertainment seems well worth the purported benefits.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 05 July 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

A couple thoughts here...

 

First of all, to be pedantic, the minimum carbohydrate intake is not zero. It's actually "just enough" to fuel the liver, which evidently cannot do its job completely on fat alone. But this is of little real consequence because probably no one in the world is eating a truly zero-carb diet. A handful of berries a day would more than suffice.

 

Secondly, cancer cells need glucose not because they can't use ketones, but because up to half their (broken) mitochondria are stuck in glycolysis as opposed to OXPHOS. Glycolysis is highly inefficient, so massive amounts of glucose are required for continued viability and proliferation. According to D'Agostino, they're stuck in this mode due to damage to their internal membranes (e.g. cristae). Ketones cannot meet this need rapidly enough, so metastatis slows and some of the cells simply die.

 

The role of this diet in AD is to prevent or reverse the energy deficit problem. That's one of several absolutely required components to a remission strategy. Indeed, Steve Newport's partial remission (mini mental state examination score 14 -> 18) within a matter of hours or days is a testament to its power. (For that matter, I think we should talk about "cognitive envelope" instead of "cognitive acuity", on account of its dynamism with respect to short term alteration of inputs.) Of course, revascularization, plaque disaggregation, and neurogenesis are also vital and do not occur sufficiently well with KD alone.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

This TED talk by Sarah Hallberg on Type 2 Diabetes cured by ....... a low carbs, high fat diet.

There are essential fatty acids.

There are essential amino acids.

But there are _no_ essential carbohydrates.

The daily minimum requirement of carbohydrates is .... 0 grams.

 

According to Sarah Hallberg the cause of diabetes is carbohydrates.

Hence, she advocates a low carb, high fat diet.

 

 

 

This is an outstanding video, not because it tells us anything surprising about metabolism (unless you've been hiding under a rock for a decade) but because of how Hallburg explains the virtuous cycle of the diabetes cash cow. It's brilliant economics: you give insulin/actose/metformin/etc to a carb addict; then they need to eat more carbs to prevent their blood sugar from going dangerously low; then they become more insulin resistent; then they need more medication. All this, and your shareholders love you, you stay out of jail, and the insurance companies pay for most of this crap. What cocaine dealer could compete with that?

 

The only point I disagree with her on is that the carb requirement is zero. While that's technically true on account of gluconeogenesis (protein --> glucose), it's untrue in healthy practice because we don't want to perform gluconeogenesis on account of the dirty side effects (more AGEs, if I'm not mistaken). So some slow-release beans, or an occasional handful of grapes or berries, should do the trick.

[resveratrol_guy]

The Tom Seyfried video above is a poisonously eloquent diatribe which constitutes the most succinct case for ketogenic cancer therapy, if not the KD in general, which I've ever heard. He laments its utter incompatibility with hospital pharmanomics, wherein the route to profit is using expensive poisons to stabilize the patient for long enough to bankrupt them and maximize revenue from the insurance companies. But I think hope is not lost: why not allow the hospitals to become more like gyms, wherein we could treat large numbers of patients in groups using a common therapy, with individual customization where required. For example, they might offer personal help for electrolyte calibration and other minor issues which occur during ketoadaptation, but otherwise provide the same set of dietary education and monitoring for the entire group. The hospitals could more than make up in volume what they sacrifice in margin. It's high time for some entrepreneur to set up a "keto group therapy center". Granted, I don't expect the hospitals to listen to science anytime soon, and no doubt the FDA will look unfavorably upon such services. Bahamas, anyone?

But don't wait for cancer or other metabolic diseases. Learn about the KD now. If you choose to implement it, do so under the supervision of a conventional doctor, who is at least competent to help you monitor hydration and kidney health using simple blood tests. Especially, be attentive to when you require additional sodium intake. (I would suggest consuming food with little to no salt, especially unsalted butter, which will allow you to achieve sodium control directly from the salt shaker.)

I realize that some people will find this diet difficult to implement, especially (tragically) APOE4 carriers who might benefit neurologically from it. For these people, I would suggest that we research the viability of a "cheatogenic" diet based on the artificial enhancement of AMY1 (salivary amylase). It has been shown with extreme statistical significance (check the P values) that more AMY1 copies lead to lower body mass index, and visa-versa. This would appear to relate to the efficiency of carbohydrate metabolism: what we want is low efficiency, so that glucose spikes are impeded and more carbohydrate is excreted undigested.

This occurred to me after a long analysis of my mother's dietary habits. She's 68 and thin as a rail, with an astonishing memory, despite a kitchen loaded with American processed food (ice cream, candy bars, chips, cereal, sports drinks, etc.) She does eat wheat germ, cheddar cheese, vitamin pills, and Longvida, which at least are providing basic nutrition. One theory I had is that her mental actuity is owed to the spermidine content in wheat germ and cheddar. But in hindsight, this would not likely override the horrendous AGE load implied by her diet (which BTW is not calorically restricted). She should have Alzheimer's and diabetes at this point. I think the simplest explanation for her anomalous state of health is a high number of AMY1 copy number variants (genomic occurrences). In other words, she's receiving the benefits of ketosis (without being in ketosis) by passively undermining carbohydrate metabolism: the mitochondria are not receiving as much sugar as her carbohydrate intake would imply.

 

The upshot of all this is that, independent of my mother's mysterious case, if we could use gene therapy or simple peptide supplementation to allow obese individuals to upregulate AMY1, we might achieve remission from metabolic syndrome and all of its downstream diseases without cramming coconut oil and butter, and perhaps without even eliminating the carbs.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 13 July 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[LongLife]

The Tom Seyfried video above is a poisonously eloquent diatribe which constitutes the most succinct case for ketogenic cancer therapy, if not the KD in general, which I've ever heard. He laments its utter incompatibility with hospital pharmanomics, wherein the route to profit is using expensive poisons to stabilize the patient for long enough to bankrupt them and maximize revenue from the insurance companies. But I think hope is not lost: why not allow the hospitals to become more like gyms, wherein we could treat large numbers of patients in groups using a common therapy, with individual customization where required. For example, they might offer personal help for electrolyte calibration and other minor issues which occur during ketoadaptation, but otherwise provide the same set of dietary education and monitoring for the entire group. The hospitals could more than make up in volume what they sacrifice in margin. It's high time for some entrepreneur to set up a "keto group therapy center". Granted, I don't expect the hospitals to listen to science anytime soon, and no doubt the FDA will look unfavorably upon such services. Bahamas, anyone?

But don't wait for cancer or other metabolic diseases. Learn about the KD now. If you choose to implement it, do so under the supervision of a conventional doctor, who is at least competent to help you monitor hydration and kidney health using simple blood tests. Especially, be attentive to when you require additional sodium intake. (I would suggest consuming food with little to no salt, especially unsalted butter, which will allow you to achieve sodium control directly from the salt shaker.)

I realize that some people will find this diet difficult to implement, especially (tragically) APOE4 carriers who might benefit neurologically from it. For these people, I would suggest that we research the viability of a "cheatogenic" diet based on the artificial enhancement of AMY1 (salivary amylase). It has been shown with extreme statistical significance (check the P values) that more AMY1 copies lead to lower body mass index, and visa-versa. This would appear to relate to the efficiency of carbohydrate metabolism: what we want is low efficiency, so that glucose spikes are impeded and more carbohydrate is excreted undigested.

This occurred to me after a long analysis of my mother's dietary habits. She's 68 and thin as a rail, with an astonishing memory, despite a kitchen loaded with American processed food (ice cream, candy bars, chips, cereal, sports drinks, etc.) She does eat wheat germ, cheddar cheese, vitamin pills, and Longvida, which at least are providing basic nutrition. One theory I had is that her mental actuity is owed to the spermidine content in wheat germ and cheddar. But in hindsight, this would not likely override the horrendous AGE load implied by her diet (which BTW is not calorically restricted). She should have Alzheimer's and diabetes at this point. I think the simplest explanation for her anomalous state of health is a high number of AMY1 copy number variants (genomic occurrences). In other words, she's receiving the benefits of ketosis (without being in ketosis) by passively undermining carbohydrate metabolism: the mitochondria are not receiving as much sugar as her carbohydrate intake would imply.

 

The upshot of all this is that, independent of my mother's mysterious case, if we could use gene therapy or simple peptide supplementation to allow obese individuals to upregulate AMY1, we might achieve remission from metabolic syndrome and all of its downstream diseases without cramming coconut oil and butter, and perhaps without even eliminating the carbs.
 

In response to the above information and in relationship to diet; Alzheimer's & Diabetes, I would be interested in finding statistical information of correlation to obesity and Alzheimer's. Are more people over weight who have Alzheimer's than those who are not?  What about Alzheimer's and Thyroid?

 

RESVERATROL GUY; I am wondering concerning your mother, has she been tested for AMY1? Does she possess an elevated number of AMY1 copies? Has she been tested for her Thyroid hormones  / balance. Is she possibly hyperthyroid or "borderline", maybe causing some of the effects you have observed?

About Alzheimer's & Diabetes; Since 2000, I have experimented off and on with NEEM (Azadirachta indica).  Having become enamored by the research financed through the World Bank (see Neem: A Tree for Solving Global Problems,)  I planted several hundred trees (PERU) and follow the SLOW  research over the past 15 years. Quite amazingly, subject rats induced to diabetes  were "protected" from organ damage while their counterparts were found to have all of their organs irreparably damaged by diabetes. Alzheimer's diseased rats were protected from neurological damage. Find research results on PUBMED and elsewhere on the Internet. As an added supplement to the diet, NEEM offers many incredible benefits...way too many to list here. The FREE downloadable e- book previously sited about NEEM from the NATIONAL ACADEMIES PRESS website is worth a read. 

 

NEEM is very bitter to drink as a concoction but bitter herbs are historically the best medicines for healing. Since it has shown to protect the internal organs from damage including the brain, I believe that NEEM is possible an essential addition of a longevity formula or stack. Happy reading.

 

[LongLife]

PLAYGROUND & RESVERATROL GUY:

I am fairly new to this forum and I do not know know how to add-on to an existing comment or discourse. Therefore please accept my apology for inserting into the last post from RESVERATROL GUY (see above post),. After placing the post I thought it best to respond as a "REPLY". So perhaps the way this is correctly done is to cut and past into a REPLY field the content of the previous post, making reference to the material to be commented upon.

 

" In response to the above information and in relationship to diet; Alzheimer's & Diabetes, I would be interested in finding statistical information of correlation to obesity and Alzheimer's. Are more people over weight who have Alzheimer's than those who are not?  What about Alzheimer's and Thyroid?

 

RESVERATROL GUY; I am wondering concerning your mother, has she been tested for AMY1? Does she possess an elevated number of AMY1 copies? Has she been tested for her Thyroid hormones  / balance. Is she possibly hyperthyroid or "borderline", maybe causing some of the effects you have observed?

About Alzheimer's & Diabetes; Since 2000, I have experimented off and on with NEEM (Azadirachta indica).  Having become enamored by the research financed through the World Bank (see Neem: A Tree for Solving Global Problems,)  I planted several hundred trees (PERU) and follow the SLOW  research over the past 15 years. Quite amazingly, subject rats induced to diabetes  were "protected" from organ damage while their counterparts were found to have all of their organs irreparably damaged by diabetes. Alzheimer's diseased rats were protected from neurological damage. Find research results on PUBMED and elsewhere on the Internet. As an added supplement to the diet, NEEM offers many incredible benefits...way too many to list here. The FREE downloadable e- book previously sited about NEEM from the NATIONAL ACADEMIES PRESS website is worth a read. 

 

NEEM is very bitter to drink as a concoction but bitter herbs are historically the best medicines for healing. Since it has shown to protect the internal organs from damage including the brain, I believe that NEEM is possible an essential addition of a longevity formula or stack. Happy reading."

[MetaphasicSystems]

Change Keto to Paleo and Gluten free; and I seriously believe this sort of diet could change society for the better.