21 replies to this topic

[Nuke]

 

After Eptitalon triggered my interest in short peptide bioregulators, I have been looking at some others. For brain health I began looking at Cortagen(Ala-Glu-Asp-Pro) and Pinealon(Glu-Asp-Arg). I see some people testing Cerebrolysin and Cortexin, but finding info on Cortagen seems limited.

 

Pinealon does seems to have a protective effect on the brain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21978084

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3342713/

https://cdn.shopify....n_vivo.pdf?1605

 

Cortagen seems to have a regenerative effect. Its effect should be close to Cortexin, but at least its not a bovine brain extract.

http://link.springer...1007/BF02682018

http://patents.justi.../patent/7189701

https://encrypted.go...01?hl=en&lr=all

 

I'm thinking of trying them, does anyone have any experience on it? Keeping my brain healthy is enough reason to use it, but if it has any nootropic effect will be a very nice bonus. I'm also thinking about trying NGF later, but that is a discussion for the other thread.

 

Any other thoughts are also welcome.

 

[Nuke]

No one interested?

 

Here is the Pinealon patent non the less. https://encrypted.go...74?hl=en&lr=all

 

I'm currently getting in quotes. 

[Perek]

Quotes? You can buy them from awakebrain. Bought other stuff from them in the past. Would be interesting to hear experience from taking those peptides. Administration is a bit of a hassle though. But those Russian peptides has been available for ages so I doubt there are any dramatic effects in general, but maybe godsent for some.

[Perek]

Understand comrade "Pure" here is on top when it comes to peptides and various protocols. Check out his posts, really interesting reading!

[Nuke]

I ordered 250mg of each, it is currently being manufactured. If all goes well I'll have it before the end of the month, an awesome Xmas present to myself.

 

My plan it to take it internasally, the same way I currently take Epitalon. I'm thinking on starting with 100ug of each a day. Seeing that I don't expect a Limitless pill that have an overnight effect, I'll start with both for a few months, and just see how they work in combination. 

 

 

 

 

[pure]

yes, true, effects are subtle in the sense that they often get you back the 'edge' you've lost. but that can make all the difference to your day to day existence.

Pinealon is a good example, it just gives you that extra level of clarity and speed of thought, and memory, which makes your day more productive and thus, ultimately, more satisfying.

Quotes? You can buy them from awakebrain. Bought other stuff from them in the past. Would be interesting to hear experience from taking those peptides. Administration is a bit of a hassle though. But those Russian peptides has been available for ages so I doubt there are any dramatic effects in general, but maybe godsent for some.

 

Edited by pure, 22 December 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Keep us posted Nuke

[Nuke]

The package is almost here, Fedex is just waiting for custom duty payment. Maybe I'll have it tomorrow. 

 

Any specific before/after tests people would like to see? Did some Cambridge brainsciences and some measuring reaction time. I already know I suck at N-back, Dual-1-back I can do, 2-back just does not work out very well. Seeing improvement there would be easy.

 

I want to do the tests now, and only redo them after a few weeks or a month. I don't want to practice it, and get an improvement  because of practice. I want to see if the peptides makes a difference.

[Nuke]

No better day than the first day of a new year to start an experiment. Mixed Pinealon, Cortagen and Epitalon in my nasal spray bottle so that each spray will give me 50µg Pinealon, 50 µg Cortagen and 250µg Epitalon. Took 1 spray earlier sub-lingually as a test to see if I have a negative reaction, though it is very unlikely. Maybe I'll do another later too.

 

Will start with the full dose tomorrow if all goes well. Wish me luck.

 

You can barely see the 10mg Pinealon in the vial, such a small amount it is. The 10mg Cortagen on the other hand is a lot and very fluffy almost looking like snow. HPLC reports tell me that the Pinealon is 98.5% pure and the Cortagen 99.4%. I asked for TFA removal on both, as I don't feel comfortable spraying TFA up my nose. It does make it far more expensive though.

 

For reference sake, my current regimen.

 

Melatonin 1.5mg/d

Ginkgo Biloba 500mg/d

Himalaya Mentat x2

Spirulina 5g/d

Chlorella 2g/d

Vitamin A 3000iu/d

Vitamin C 1g/d

Vitamin D3 4000iu/d

Vitamin K2 186µg MK4 & 54µg MK7 /d

Lithium Orotate 5mg 2x /week

MSM 1g/d

B-complex 2x Viridian High Five capsules

Omega3 10ml /d

Homemade C60 1.6mg/d

Magnesium sulphate 1g/d

Sodium tetraborate 50mg/d

Epitalon 500µg/d

Selenium 90µg/d

Chromium 200µg/d

Zinc 9.5mg/d

Coconut oil 5ml/d

Iodine 3-5mg 2x /week

Guduchi 500mg/d

Lions mane 500mg/d

[Steveggz123]

Nuke, what are your results?

 

Do you notice any immediate or noticeable changes?

 

 

And what is TFA?

 

Thanks,

Steve

[Nuke]

Hi Steve

 

Objectively I can't say I see anything yet. I only expect to see it after using it a few days, after reading studies and knowing a bit about how peptide bioregulators work. I'm also only taking a small dose. On the other hand, even knowing that, I really would like to see an acute effect. But alas, I think I only see placebo now. After all, I'm less than 48h into the experiment.

 

TFA is Trifluoroacetic acid and is used in the synthesis of peptides. There may be a little left after making the peptide. To remove the last bit is a process, thats why you have to request it. Depending on the amount you order, TFA removal can cost a quarter of the price of the peptide. I'm not sure if it is necessary in the amount I take, but till I know, I'll err on the side of caution. It may be funny to say that, seeing that I'm spraying a strange substance up my nose.

 

[Steveggz123]

Thanks for the response.

 

I figured it would take time to notice results if any.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

Thanks,

Steve

[Ladner]

How goes the Pinealon?

Edited by Ladner, 14 January 2016 - 09:18 PM.

[Nuke]

Well, I'm still alive.

 

Subjectively, something is happening, the problem is I'm not sure what. I'll only redo some tests at the end of the month(Cambridge BrainSciences and Reaction time), I don't want training to interfere with the tests. I'll also do some N-back again. At times I do feel different, not good or bad, just like I perceive stuff a bit differently.

 

I was hoping it will help my short term memory a bit, but I can't say that is does yet. 

 

I'll keep you updated. The problem is its a slow process, so its hard to pinpoint the effect.

 

 

 

[Nuke]

Ok I did the first few tests earlier tonight. I just tested reaction time and a Stroop test on Cambridge Brain Sciences. Planning to do some other tests tomorrow or Friday.

 

The Pinealon/Cortagen mix had no effect on my reaction time. Sorry guys, no good news there. Will redo it one morning when I'm not tired, but I don't expect much.

 

On the other hand, doing the Stroop test had an interesting result. Even if this is only an n=1 anecdotal report, I do believe it is significant.  A screenshot is attached with the dates I did the tests. I'll let the screenshot speak for itself. I have not done any tests aside from the 3 days in the screenshot, so there is no learning involved. If anyone want me to post the exact scores, I'll do so tomorrow. Btw both on the 27 Des and today I did it at around 8pm in the evening.

 

So, a preliminary thumbs up to these peptides.

 

 

Edit - File attachment did not work.

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Edited by Nuke, 27 January 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[Nuke]

So I redid the reaction time test this morning, and there is no difference.

 

Next for some bad news. It also did nothing for my working memory. My monkey ladder score still sucks. 7 like always, the only thing that made me score an 8 was Modafinil.

 

But here comes the awesome part. My Rotations score went insane. The reason the 3rd time was a total bummer was because just because I was beginning to think how awesome I was. Sometimes you just need to crash down to earth for a bit I guess. I'm pretty sure my score would have been much better if I did it 5 times without seeing the scores while testing.

 

I also have some subjective feelings that I will pen down later. IMO hard data is worth more in anyway.

 

Per weight these peptides may be some of the most potent nootropic substances. In the past month I only took 3mg (total) of each, and it was not even injected. I did miss one day, and took it 2x per day on 3 occasions. 

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•  rotations.png   53.99KB   9 downloads

[pure]

Hi Nuke.

You previously wrote above: "50µg Pinealon, 50 µg Cortagen and 250µg Epitalon."

I think you'll find you'll get better results if you dose Pinealon and Epithalon at about 3 mg if administering intranasally/sublingually (ie. not via injection), and probably better again if you split it into AM and PM dosings.

However, Cortagen is likely different (I haven't tried it) because, according to published research its dose effect is a bell-curve, whereby too low a dose and there is no effect, but too high a dose and there is an undesirable effect.

ie. for Cortagen there is a dose 'sweet spot' which will possibly be different from person to person.

 

[Nuke]

You are correct, my doses are very low. The thing about IN dosing is that, if you look at the IN-insulin and NGF research, it may not enter the bloodstream, but travel via the olfactory nerve directly to the brain. I have no idea how that would affect dosing, so I decided to err on the low side. I still have a lot left in the freezer, so I'll revisit them both in a few months. Then I'll also not mix them, and I may even try subQ to see if I get any other effects.

 

The other thing I'm wondering about, if it enters the brain directly like IN-insulin, it may not end up in the blood. That way only the brain, or parts of it, will be affected by the peptide. I read this study where Cortagen increased the conduction velocity in nerves, so I wondered if it may increase reaction time. In my case it did not, but I'll like to redo my tests after higher, subQ, dosing.

 

 

[William Sterog]

I think that you are taking way too much things. In my personal experience, Mentat does not stack well, it has docens of different compounds itself and I experience anti-nootropic effects when I take it alongside other supplements.

 

Anyway, I don't think that Cambridge Brain Sciences tells us nothing. First of all, because the test are extremely easy, and also because your scores shows nothing impressive.

 

 

Sorry if this is something that you don't wanna hear, but I think that is not worth it to spend your money in some russian peptide and putting some risk into your health in order to become better on some games that are not correlated with intelligence. You doesn't seem to have any problem with your brain, take it easy.

 

I thought that somebody should tell you that at some point. Of course you are going to do whatever you want, and I respect that. 

 

I only take KSM 66 right now, works well, not very nootropic anyway.

 

PD: Excuse my english, I know that I sound retarded, but it is not my first language. 

Edited by William Sterog, 28 March 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Nuke]

About the Mentat, I also have a feeling its not doing much. I still have a few bottles left though, not sure if I should use it up or give it to my parents. I'm taking a lot of things but most is vitamins, minerals and fats.

 

I have do disagree that the tests are easy. You may find it easy, and from your scores I can see why. But you have to accept that you are in the top 1% of scores. Most people don't find it that way, if you look at the graph.

 

The problem is that to measure intelligence is a hard thing. I hate playing the games, its boring and frustrating at the same time. But its the only way I can measure change to some degree. It helps no one if I just say I feel smarter, if there is nothing to show for it.

 

No problem, people disagreeing makes me think. It makes me revisit previous decisions to decide if its still true.

 

Don't worry about your English, many people here has it as a second language - me included. 

[sunshinefrost]

What are you final thoughts on pinealon ?

[Nuke]

Unfortunately I can't tell you anything new yet. My experiments with neurofeedback has moved some other things back a bit. But I'm very positive about it and will revisit it, plan on using it sub-q and not as a mix with Cortagen.

 

If you decide on trying it, please report back.