99 replies to this topic

[message]

Ugh good to know.

Logic any form the above list that will likely have the biggest impact?

Thoughts on this : https://www.washingt...study-suggests/

[Logic]

Ugh good to know.

Logic any form the above list that will likely have the biggest impact?

Thoughts on this : https://www.washingt...study-suggests/

 
You are opening a bloody great big can of worms here Message!  
 
Yes antioxidants can help cancer and protect it from chemo etc. so overdoing them isnt a good idea.
Also the studies, as it typical of western medicine, tend to look at 1 or maybe 2 substances at a time.
Let take Vit E for example:
The cheapest form and that most often used in Multis is Alpha Tocopherol IIRC.
There are actually 8 forms:  alpha, beta, gamma, delta Tocopherol and Tocotrienol IIRC.
The list goes on...
Yet the study most likely only looked at D-Alpha Tocopherol; the cheapest form, derived from the petrochemical industry IIRC...
 
Vit K2 would be oxidised by most antioxidants in a multi.
As such it should separate  (and probably be taken separately?)
 
Nicotinamide downregulates NAD+, but doesn't give a flush...
(Its useful in certain cases where PARP has gone into overdrive...)
 
When 1 multi manufacturer makes a multi purporting to contain everything, but actually containing the cheapest and nastiest, synthetic forms of everything; the others a forced to follow suite or close down.
This makes finding a good multi with things in the right amounts and ratio difficult, if not impossible.
I have settled on a 3 per day multi that I only take when the coinciding meal I've had is not a healthy, well balanced one (all the time atm)
I also stay the fuck away from any multi with Copper and Iron in it!  Centrum etc.

Then you get the... 'herbal' stuff like Resveratrol, Pterostilbene, Milk thistle etc.
These are a better bet as we evolved eating plants over bilions of years and kind of co-opted their 'defence' mechanisms etc.
More often than not the.. 'antioxidants' etc in these will be good for healthy cells but bad for cancerous cells.
 
But again one has to be careful as plants tend to absorb whatever's in the ground, or not anymore, and mankind has done a pretty good job of buggering up the soil by depleting its minerals while overdosing it with others that cause plants too look nice, be bigger, sweater etc, and insecticides etc and heavy metals.
 
Also the extraction process and the solvents (water, alcohol etc-etc) means that what you end up with in the capsule might well, not contain the active ingredients you want and an unhealthy dose of heavy metals and nasty solvents instead.

At the end of the day there just is no substitute for doing your own studying and the long laborious. insanity provoking process of learning all this for yourself.

Longecity is a wealth of information and a good place to start:
In the search dropdown menu (top right) you will find GoogleSiteSearch.
You will get to know the different members and who's word to put more stock into etc.
Look at post counts and TY points.

Then there is Pubmed which is like Google, but for peer reviewed, published studies only.
Here its a good idea to look at who did the study and very importantly who paid for it:
Quite often you will find that something that looked very promising in initial studies suddenly has a study saying it causes cancer, or something.
Then you have to figure out if that is really the case, or if some entity with huge financial interests in competing medications has paid to make sure the study gives a scary negative result.
 
BHT comes to mind, where the studies showing it causes cancer used insanely large doses and chronic dosing.
IMHO BHT is one of the things that causes a large # of very profitable to treat diseases to become a non issue for consumers and a potentially huge financial loss for the big pharma companies.
 
I also pay special attention to things that have banned or otherwise made inaccessible by the FDA and co. as good leads.
Milk Thistle and Melatonin here.
P5P in the USA.
Chelation Therapy
There are many others.
 
Note that I am considered something of a conspiracy theorist here... 
So again; decide for yourself.

IMHO the key to eternal youth lies in:
Looking after the gut as it is the organ that separates us from near instant death by septicemia and becomes more an more permeable with age, leading to constant inflammation.
https://cse.google.c...ut permeability

https://cse.google.c...esistant starch
Get rid of chronic infections for the same reason.
https://cse.google.c...co bauvitaximab
https://cse.google.c...0&gsc.q=bht vco
Stop and reverse metal buildup/glycation/lipid peroxidation etc for the same reason again.
https://cse.google.c...gsc.q=chelation
 https://cse.google.c...q=glycation age
https://cse.google.c....q=perocidation

These are the things that lead to the permanent increase in NF-kB etc, which leads to a decrease in telomerase/telomere length, which leads to an epigenetically older/compromised phenotype and less stem cell activity.
http://www.longecity...and-telomerase/
IMHO...?  

[aribadabar]

I also pay special attention to things that have banned or otherwise made inaccessible by the FDA and co. as good leads.

Milk Thistle and Melatonin here.
P5P in the USA.

 

I have recently bought all Milk Thistle , Melatonin and P5P in US without any problems.

If you are talking about pyridoxamine then I would agree.  

[BieraK]

Yes, Ebay has a lot of Milk Thistle listings. Powdercity has Milk Thistle available also.
Really it is too much hypocrisy and stupidity on the part of governments to ban the sale of milk thistle... the same with melatonin.

Milk Thistle a good herb for Nrf2 upreguation, but andrographis paniculata looks better, I think that both herbs combined are good addition to a everyday stack.

[Logic]

 

I also pay special attention to things that have banned or otherwise made inaccessible by the FDA and co. as good leads.

Milk Thistle and Melatonin here.
P5P in the USA.

 

I have recently bought all Milk Thistle , Melatonin and P5P in US without any problems.

If you are talking about pyridoxamine then I would agree.  

 

 

I am in South Africa (Surprise!   ).  Milk Thistle and Melatonin were not 'banned' here, but you need a prescription to get them.  This has driven demand down to the point that suppliers no longer stock them, effectively 'banning' them...

pyridoxamine:  yep.  Thx for catching that.

[Logic]

Luteolin:

 

I did mention how insanity provoking the study of longevity can be.

CD38 is the major user of NAD+ and a NADase. (breaks done NAD+)

Mice without CD38 had a 30-fold increase in intracellular NAD levels.
Guess what suppresses  CD38 at low concentrations!    
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=631288

 

Now this info is more in line with my thinking (or is it just what I would like to think!?) and it's probably another case of Luteolin decreasing NAD+ in cancer cells only?

Sigh...!  Yet more study reqd.

 

I hope this illustrates just how complex longevity research can be to the new people following this thread.
 

[aribadabar]

 

 

I also pay special attention to things that have banned or otherwise made inaccessible by the FDA and co. as good leads.

Milk Thistle and Melatonin here.
P5P in the USA.

 

I have recently bought all Milk Thistle , Melatonin and P5P in US without any problems.

If you are talking about pyridoxamine then I would agree.  

 

 

I am in South Africa (Surprise!   ).  Milk Thistle and Melatonin were not 'banned' here, but you need a prescription to get them.  This has driven demand down to the point that suppliers no longer stock them, effectively 'banning' them...

pyridoxamine:  yep.  Thx for catching that.

 

Speaking of stupid regulations, here is the list of supplements that Canada restricts/bans for importation:

I did get some flak from a border agent for a bottle of Lithium Ororate once. /facepalm

 

I bolded some egregious IMO, but think D3 >1k IU takes the cake, though.

 

I may have "smuggled" some inadvertently while returning from US trip

 

 

OTOH I have seen some Horse Chestnut in the local health food store the other day or dried Barberry in the Middle eastern grocer or megadosed Melatonin in Costco   

 

restricted ingredients:

• Aconitum species (napellum and others)
• Adonis
• Angelica
• Arnica (oral)
• Arrowroot
• Balloon Flower
• Baneberry
• Barberry (Berberis vulgaris)
• Bayberry
• Belladonna
• Betel Nut
• Bittersweet
• Black Cherry (Prunus serotina)
• Black Cohosh
• Blood Root
• Blue Cohosh
• Bryonia alba (White Bryony)
• Calabar Bean
• Calamus
• Calotropis
• Camphor
• Castor Oil Plant
• Celandine (Chelidonium majus)
• Chaparral
• Cinchona officinalis
• Colchicum chichum (Autumn crocus)
• Coltsfoot
• Comfrey
• Conium maculatum
• Convallaria
• Coonties Seeds
• Cramp Bark (Virbunum opulus)
• Croton tiglium
• Daffodil
• Daphne
• Devil Pepper
• DHEA
• Dogbane
• Dong Quai
• Ephedra
• Euphorbium Officinarum
• Folic Acid >1000 mcg per Day
• Foxglove
• Fritillaria
• Gelsemium sempervirens
• Germander
• Ginkgo Biloba (Fruit & Seeds)
• Golden Ragwort
• Hellebore
• Helonias (False Unicorn)
• Henbane (Hyoscyamus niger)
• Horse Chestnut (Aesculus Hippocastanum)
• Ibuprofen >400mg
• Ignatia
• Jessamine
• Jimson Weed (Stramonium)
• Juniper Berries
• Kava
• Lantana
• Levodopa
• Liferoot
• Lily of the Valley
• Lithium
• Lobelia
• Magnolia officinalis
• Male Fern
• Mandrake
• Melatonin
• Mezereon
• Micranthum Oil
• Mistletoe
• Mountain Grape
• Mountain Laurel (Kalmia)
• Naproxen >440 mg
• Oregon Grape
• Parsley Oil
• Pennyroyal
• Peony
• Petroselinum sativum
• Phytolacca decandra
• Platycodon
• Pleurisy Root
• Poison Oak (Rhus toxicodendron)
• Poke Root (Pokeweed)
• Progesterone
• Pygeum
• Ragwort
• Ruta graveolens
• Rye Ergot
• Sabadilla
• Sage oil
• Sanguinaria canadensis
• Sassafras
• Savin Oil
• Scoparius
• Sowbread
• Squill
• Stephania
• Strophanthus
• Tansy Oil
• Thuja
• Thyroid
• Tonka Bean
• Tryptophan >220mg and Topical
• Uva Ursi (Bearberry)
• Virginia Snakeroot
• Viscum Album
• Vitamin A >10000 IU
• Vitamin D >1000 IU/Day
• Vitamin K >120 mcg
• Wintergreen
• Wormseed
• Yohimbe

[Never_Ending]

That NAC and E antioxidant study really didn't state anything that profound. Firstly they used doses many times higher than the RDA.... not a good sign. Second anything that protects cells might protect cancer cells as they're still your cells.

 

Also this taken from nature site regarding the study:

 

"   Ultimately, the study demonstrates that there might be no simple explanation for the role of antioxidants in cancer, says Peng Huang, a researcher at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. Antioxidants could help to prevent tumours from forming, he says, but once the tumours are there, the supplements might be harmful. “There’s a big confusion out there now,” says Huang. “But we just need to concede that these effects are context-dependent.”       "

 

 

Studies contradict each other often....  gets people's attention each time.

Cannot say that's never a motivation.

Edited by Never_Ending, 06 February 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[Castiel]

Well,

 

regards antiaging nutrients, it would seem that alpha lipoic acid has potential as it seems to be able to result in increased activation of telomerase.

 

Only skimmed the abstract of the related study.  Questions would be does it affect disease state, as it appears the authors are suggesting?  if so is that indicative of substantial telomerase activation as it would seem necessary for significant physiological changes to take place? Given that alpha lipoic acid has been vinculated to increase telomerase activity in another cell type, how many cell types might it affect?  can we expect this to translate from rodents to humans?  what would be the corresponding dose if so?

 

Also relevant would be if the telomere theory of human aging is true or not.   I think it is conceivable that in longer lived organisms telomere length might play a critical role in aging.   We've already seen that some cells are able to live over twice as long as an original animal if transplanted into a longer lived  species, without genetic modification.    These cells could probably live even longer if transplanted into even longer lived organisms.    This suggests that some cells within the organism might already exhibit negligible senescence, even in relatively short lived species.

 

If an organism has the genetic maintenance to allow its cells even some of its most metabolically most demanding cells working fine for over twice the lifespan of the organism, why does the organism die so soon, if its cells are capable of outliving it for so long?

 

In areas like the brain, mechanisms exist not just to process molecular garbage inside it, but to export molecular garbage, the glymphatic system.   Even with decreased function, the glymphatic system is able to prevent dementia even for those living about 50% longer than average(120years versus 80 year average), 4 additional decades of high metabolic function without impeding soundness of mind.

 

Similar garbage clearance mechanisms must exist elsewhere, mechanisms that when ramped up might be behind the so called experiments that revert things like atherosclerosis with simple dietary interventions.

 

IMHO, the problems with molecular garbage are likely the result of aging affecting garbage clearance and export mechanisms, and where these mechanisms brought to more youthful levels these wouldn't be an issue.

 

The death of an organism where some of the cells appear to exhibit negligible senescence, obviously calls into question the reasons for the aging and death of such an organism. 

[message]

Thanks all for chiming in.

 

Logic the detailed reply is appreciated.  Hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  What is this 3 per day multi you take?

 

Gut health is an important factor.  I will start drinking chicory root tea.  This seems rather straight forward.

 

Now, the others are tricky.  There is no easy way to get rid of chronic infections or reverse peroxidation hmmmm

 

Do you have any tips from personal experience Logic?

[Sith]

So guys after all your amazing input, my current regimen consists of:

 

20g Astragalus 

5000IU Vitamin D3 

350mg Vitamin K2

75mg Aspirin 

850mg Metformin

500mg Resveratrol 

High does Vitamin B12

5tbsp Cod Liver Oil

30g Glycine 

C60OO (every other day)

4-5 cups of green tea (if that counts)

 

What does everyone now think of this? 

 

Edited by Sith, 09 February 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[aribadabar]

So guys after all your amazing input, my current regimen consists of:

 

20g Astragalus 

5000IU Vitamin D3 

350mg Vitamin K2

75mg Aspirin 

850mg Metformin

500mg Resveratrol 

High does Vitamin B12

5tbsp Cod Liver Oil

30g Glycine 

C60OO (every other day)

4-5 cups of green tea (if that counts)

 

What does everyone now think of this? 

 

Way too much Cod Liver Oil - 1 tbsp is more than sufficient.

You can halve glycine and metformin and still be OK.

Aspirin at 18 is a waste.

1000mcg B12 is sufficient.

I'd swap Resveratrol for Pterostilbene.

 

The rest looks OK  

[Sith]

So guys after all your amazing input, my current regimen consists of:

20g Astragalus
5000IU Vitamin D3
350mg Vitamin K2
75mg Aspirin
850mg Metformin
500mg Resveratrol
High does Vitamin B12
5tbsp Cod Liver Oil
30g Glycine
C60OO (every other day)
4-5 cups of green tea (if that counts)

What does everyone now think of this?

Way too much Cod Liver Oil - 1 tbsp is more than sufficient.
You can halve glycine and metformin and still be OK.
Aspirin at 18 is a waste.
1000mcg B12 is sufficient.
I'd swap Resveratrol for Pterostilbene.

The rest looks OK

I understand but I feel like higher doses are better in order to stabilise omega 3 to omega 6 ratio.

Will look into that. Thanks.

Also, what advantages does pterostilbene have over resveratrol?

Edited by Sith, 10 February 2016 - 01:01 AM.

[niner]

That's a lot of glycine.   20g astragalus might contain enough heavy metals to effectively do more harm than good.  At your age, I'd skip it.  It's more important that you do no harm to yourself, since you are highly likely to live long enough to have access to rejuvenative therapy.  I wouldn't use that much D3 without blood testing.  I agree with aribadabar, too.  At 18, you aren't even done with development.  Supplements that are a good idea at 45 might not be so good a quarter of a century earlier.  You should aim for a minimal supplement routine, with the lowest dose that accomplishes what you're looking for.  Shoot for a great diet, a good exercise program, and good sleep habits.  Don't drink and drive, don't smoke, don't get addicted to recreational substances, and don't forget to wear a good sunscreen every day.

[Logic]

Thanks all for chiming in.

 

Logic the detailed reply is appreciated.  Hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  What is this 3 per day multi you take?

 

Gut health is an important factor.  I will start drinking chicory root tea.  This seems rather straight forward.

 

Now, the others are tricky.  There is no easy way to get rid of chronic infections or reverse peroxidation hmmmm

 

Do you have any tips from personal experience Logic?

 

The 3 per day multi is a local, South African product message.

http://www.solal.co....ducts/3-per-day

 

It's nowhere near perfect as Solal has to take cost to 'feel' ratio into account.

ie:  They can charge more due to his formulations being felt by customers, but they also have to compete with cheap, nasty shit like centrum, so some  of the stuff in it isn't optimal.
If people knew better; I have no doubt that he would have a far superior product on the shelves.

 

They do have a compounding pharmacy...

 

Chicory tea is good, but I would step it up a notch considering that the gut is the shield between the rest of you and a quick death by septicemia and becomes less effective with age.

The cells of the gut have a very high turnover rate.

ie:  They 'die' and are replaced at a high rate, which means the the gut telomeres are liable to shorten faster than those of most cells.

Also note that as everything you take orally has to pass through the gut...

ie: its very well positioned to benefit more than the rest of you from the telomerase activators etc you might take.

I am beginning to think that this may be a large part of why/how supps actually work and that the right pre/probiotic mix may well be able to replace a lot of supps by producing them 'locally'.

 

Do a googlesitesearch (in the search dropdown menu) for:

Fos, Inulin, resistant starch, LKM-512, prebiotics, probiotics, leaky gut, telomerase activators, candida.

(not all at once)

 

The suppression of chronic infections is easier than most realise, thx to the efforts of big pharma to suppress the knowledge IMHO.
GoogleSitesearch:

VCO, (virgin coconut oil) BHT, (butylated hydroxytoluene) olive leaf extract, astragalus

for things you can do now.

DRACO, Bavituximab

for exciting future stuff. Future..?  Perhaps not for Bavituximab!  

 

Note BHT's effects on peroxidation as well as virii.

There is other stuff I don't care to share at this time.

 

Personal:

Most of this knowledge I have only read/studied about:

As a white South African it is very difficult to make ends meet here due to 'the new' racist and corrupt governance and an alarming fall in the exchange rate making everything unaffordable.
I am getting to the point where, contrary to the spirit of Longecity, I am beginning to begrudge sharing my advice due to my circumstances.  Like not being able to afford internet connectivity for much longer and, in all likelihood, having to move into much cheaper lodging.

 

I realise that this is also partly my fault for going from being extremely interested in, to obsessed with longevity research, and so digging myself into a hole.

So I have been thinking of moving on, to a blog with affiliate links to very well vetted supplements, etc.

 

I know that this is more than anyone wishes to know, but should I disappear; you now know why.
Any advice in this regard would be much appreciated.

Edited by Logic, 10 February 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[Logic]

So guys after all your amazing input, my current regimen consists of:

...

What does everyone now think of this? 

 

20g Astragalus:  

plain root?  IIRC you need 33 for clinically effective doses of telomerase activators.

 

5000IU Vitamin D3:

check levels and take cofactors vit A and K2.

75mg Aspirin:  

With C as it ameliorates the gut issues it causes by IIRC 95%

 
850mg Metformin:  

Pterostilbene

 

500mg Resveratrol: GoogleSiteSearch metabolites

High dose Vitamin B12: all B's in the correct ratio reqd to avoid imbalances.  The form is very important.

 

C60OO (every other day):

Less often maybe..?  Site search; stem cell proliferation and mitophagy with C60oo.

 

4-5 cups of green tea:  

with the resveratrol for the right metabolites..?

 

What about AGE blockers/breakers than aspirin and metformin?

pathogens!?

Edited by Logic, 10 February 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[mkp6019]

Logic,

 

I take supplemental B-6 & B-12 but don't worry about the other B's as I am meeting the RDA for the other B's. Is a proper balance of B important in general or just for your regime? I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

[niner]

 I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

 

I don't think C will help.  Unless the C is buffered and/or taken with food, it may do more harm than good, in terms of stomach erosion.  It's hard to get around the GI effects of aspirin.

[RobbieG]

Logic,

I am sorry to hear all the BS you have to deal with in South Africa.  I have some strong opinions on the topic but this is not the forum to air them.  Regardless, please let us know what you decide to do.  I have always enjoyed reading your contributions on this site.  Best, - Rob 

 

 

Thanks all for chiming in.

 

Logic the detailed reply is appreciated.  Hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  What is this 3 per day multi you take?

 

Gut health is an important factor.  I will start drinking chicory root tea.  This seems rather straight forward.

 

Now, the others are tricky.  There is no easy way to get rid of chronic infections or reverse peroxidation hmmmm

 

Do you have any tips from personal experience Logic?

 

The 3 per day multi is a local, South African product message.

http://www.solal.co....ducts/3-per-day

 

It's nowhere near perfect as Solal has to take cost to 'feel' ratio into account.

ie:  They can charge more due to his formulations being felt by customers, but they also have to compete with cheap, nasty shit like centrum, so some  of the stuff in it isn't optimal.
If people knew better; I have no doubt that he would have a far superior product on the shelves.

 

They do have a compounding pharmacy...

 

Chicory tea is good, but I would step it up a notch considering that the gut is the shield between the rest of you and a quick death by septicemia and becomes less effective with age.

The cells of the gut have a very high turnover rate.

ie:  They 'die' and are replaced at a high rate, which means the the gut telomeres are liable to shorten faster than those of most cells.

Also note that as everything you take orally has to pass through the gut...

ie: its very well positioned to benefit more than the rest of you from the telomerase activators etc you might take.

I am beginning to think that this may be a large part of why/how supps actually work and that the right pre/probiotic mix may well be able to replace a lot of supps by producing them 'locally'.

 

Do a googlesitesearch (in the search dropdown menu) for:

Fos, Inulin, resistant starch, LKM-512, prebiotics, probiotics, leaky gut, telomerase activators, candida.

(not all at once)

 

The suppression of chronic infections is easier than most realise, thx to the efforts of big pharma to suppress the knowledge IMHO.
GoogleSitesearch:

VCO, (virgin coconut oil) BHT, (butylated hydroxytoluene) olive leaf extract, astragalus

for things you can do now.

DRACO, Bavituximab

for exciting future stuff. Future..?  Perhaps not for Bavituximab!  

 

Note BHT's effects on peroxidation as well as virii.

There is other stuff I don't care to share at this time.

 

Personal:

Most of this knowledge I have only read/studied about:

As a white South African it is very difficult to make ends meet here due to 'the new' racist and corrupt governance and an alarming fall in the exchange rate making everything unaffordable.
I am getting to the point where, contrary to the spirit of Longecity, I am beginning to begrudge sharing my advice due to my circumstances.  Like not being able to afford internet connectivity for much longer and, in all likelihood, having to move into much cheaper lodging.

 

I realise that this is also partly my fault for going from being extremely interested in, to obsessed with longevity research, and so digging myself into a hole.

So I have been thinking of moving on, to a blog with affiliate links to very well vetted supplements, etc.

 

I know that this is more than anyone wishes to know, but should I disappear; you now know why.
Any advice in this regard would be much appreciated.

 

 

[normalizing]

 

 I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

 

I don't think C will help.  Unless the C is buffered and/or taken with food, it may do more harm than good, in terms of stomach erosion.  It's hard to get around the GI effects of aspirin.

 

 

it might be absorbed rectally. i got around many things that upset my stomach by rectal route and believe it or not, bioavailabity seems to be even stronger for me this way. especially with pharmaceuticals i have to do lower than usual dose because they become much more potent.

[Never_Ending]

 

 I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

 

I don't think C will help.  Unless the C is buffered and/or taken with food, it may do more harm than good, in terms of stomach erosion.  It's hard to get around the GI effects of aspirin.

 

 

Great point... people always talk about C but the form in which it occurs is very important.

 

Things like buffered C or     C existing with other substances in certain fruits is better than the common vitamin C being sold (the common C might still somewhat help)

Edited by Never_Ending, 11 February 2016 - 05:48 PM.

[Darryl]

I'd think hyperbaric oxygen would promote aging via oxidization, no?

 

I had a personal interest in this, as I occasionally expose myself to PO₂ up to 1.2 atmospheres. There are concerns:

 

Lemaitre F et al. 2002. Effect of air diving exposure generally encountered by recreational divers: oxidative stress?. Undersea & hyperbaric medicine, 29(1), p.39.

Kähler W et al. 2013. Influence of hyperoxia and physical exercise on* OH-radical stress in humans as measured by dihydroxylated benzoates (DHB) in urine.Undersea Hyperb Med, 40(3), pp.231-238.

Sureda A et al. 2014. Scuba diving induces nitric oxide synthesis and the expression of inflammatory and regulatory genes of the immune response in neutrophils. Physiological genomics, 46(17), pp.647-654.

 

But the body adapts by upregulating antioxidant defenses. Hyperbaric oxygen is a hormetin.

 

Ferrer MD et al. 2007. Scuba diving enhances endogenous antioxidant defenses in lymphocytes and neutrophils. Free radical research, 41(3), pp.274-281.

Alcaraz-García MJ et al. 2008. Effects of hyperoxia on biomarkers of oxidative stress in closed-circuit oxygen military divers. Journal of physiology and biochemistry, 64(2), pp.135-141.

Gröger M et al. 2009. DNA damage after long-term repetitive hyperbaric oxygen exposure. Journal of Applied Physiology, 106(1), pp.311-315.

Sureda A et al. 2009. Scuba diving increases erythrocyte and plasma antioxidant defenses and spares NO without oxidative damage. Medicine and science in sports and exercise, 41(6), pp.1271-1276.

Sureda A et al. 2012. Scuba diving activates vascular antioxidant system.International journal of sports medicine, 33(7), pp.531-536.

[Logic]

 

 I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

 

I don't think C will help.  Unless the C is buffered and/or taken with food, it may do more harm than good, in terms of stomach erosion.  It's hard to get around the GI effects of aspirin.

 

 

Thx for getting me to re-look at this Niner as I can't remember where I read that C ameliorates the gut issues caused by Aspirin by 95%

 

Aspirin and Vitamin C Together at Last

 

...Aspirin also interferes with absorption of vitamin C, and regular use of aspirin can deplete your gastrointestinal lining of vitamin C (3). Taking equal doses of vitamin C and aspirin decreases the amount of stomach damage that occurs when compared to taking aspirin alone, according to research done at a German university (4)...

 

...Two other dietary supplements appear promising to prevent aspirin-induced stomach damage...deglycyrrhizinated licorice...SAMe...

http://www.huffingto...g_b_529058.html

 

Effects of buffered and plain acetylsalicylic acid formulations with and without ascorbic acid on gastric mucosa in healthy subjects.

 

The trial confirms that buffering of acetylsalicylic acid improves local gastric tolerability. Acetylsalicylic acid in combination with ascorbic acid shows significantly fewer gastric lesions and the lowest increase in gastric microbleeding compared with the other tested formulations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14984384

 

Amelioration of Aspirin Induced Oxidative Impairment and Apoptotic Cell Death by a Novel Antioxidant Protein Molecule Isolated from the Herb Phyllanthus niruri

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3929659/

[BieraK]

 

I'd think hyperbaric oxygen would promote aging via oxidization, no?

 

I had a personal interest in this, as I occasionally expose myself to PO₂ up to 1.2 atmospheres. There are concerns:

 

Lemaitre F et al. 2002. Effect of air diving exposure generally encountered by recreational divers: oxidative stress?. Undersea & hyperbaric medicine, 29(1), p.39.

Kähler W et al. 2013. Influence of hyperoxia and physical exercise on* OH-radical stress in humans as measured by dihydroxylated benzoates (DHB) in urine.Undersea Hyperb Med, 40(3), pp.231-238.

Sureda A et al. 2014. Scuba diving induces nitric oxide synthesis and the expression of inflammatory and regulatory genes of the immune response in neutrophils. Physiological genomics, 46(17), pp.647-654.

 

But the body adapts by upregulating antioxidant defenses. Hyperbaric oxygen is a hormetin.

 

Ferrer MD et al. 2007. Scuba diving enhances endogenous antioxidant defenses in lymphocytes and neutrophils. Free radical research, 41(3), pp.274-281.

Alcaraz-García MJ et al. 2008. Effects of hyperoxia on biomarkers of oxidative stress in closed-circuit oxygen military divers. Journal of physiology and biochemistry, 64(2), pp.135-141.

Gröger M et al. 2009. DNA damage after long-term repetitive hyperbaric oxygen exposure. Journal of Applied Physiology, 106(1), pp.311-315.

Sureda A et al. 2009. Scuba diving increases erythrocyte and plasma antioxidant defenses and spares NO without oxidative damage. Medicine and science in sports and exercise, 41(6), pp.1271-1276.

Sureda A et al. 2012. Scuba diving activates vascular antioxidant system.International journal of sports medicine, 33(7), pp.531-536.

 

Thats makes me wonder the next:

An intervention that decreases glycolysis and at the same increases OXPHOS and oxygen saturation in the body, Can produce positive adaptive effects for the body?

For example methylene blue increases oxygen consumption and upregulates Nrf2 genes, forskolin stimulates OXPHOS (reference here: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3638674/), currently in the market there are oxygen bottles that you can breath with 99,5% of oxygen. Thats makes me wonder if the effects of increased OXPHOS, increased oxygen and reduced glycolysis could share some of the adaptative effects of hyperbaric oxygen chamber

[Logic]

Logic,

 

I take supplemental B-6 & B-12 but don't worry about the other B's as I am meeting the RDA for the other B's. Is a proper balance of B important in general or just for your regime? 

 

For a start, there is a big difference between RDA and the optimal dosages mkp6019

 

I need to re-investigate this subject myself but I dont have the inclination atm and dont remember all the details offhand.  Probably due to a lack of B vits!  

it's also somewhat of a moot point: unless you go with separate Bs, you end up taking whatever is in the multi...

 

The info is in the NAD+ and homocysteine threads IIRC.

Personally I think staying away from any form of B3 ending with amide is the most important thing as it downregulates SIRT etc and you get (...more than?) enough of the amidated B3 from food.

Large doses increase homocysteine.

Methyl donors, such as B12, (in the methylcobalamin form) and B6 counteract this.

 

So different forms have greatly different effects.

See Bentafontamine, P5P, Pyridoxamine etc.

 

As niacin/nicotinic acid causes a flush; good luck finding a multi that uses this non amidated form!

I have no idea why they don't use Inositol Hexanicotinate and/or Chromium polynicotinate and kill 2-3 birds with one stone.

Cost probably?
 

[niner]

 

Aspirin and Vitamin C Together at Last

 

...Aspirin also interferes with absorption of vitamin C, and regular use of aspirin can deplete your gastrointestinal lining of vitamin C (3). Taking equal doses of vitamin C and aspirin decreases the amount of stomach damage that occurs when compared to taking aspirin alone, according to research done at a German university (4)...

 

...Two other dietary supplements appear promising to prevent aspirin-induced stomach damage...deglycyrrhizinated licorice...SAMe...

http://www.huffingto...g_b_529058.html

 

Effects of buffered and plain acetylsalicylic acid formulations with and without ascorbic acid on gastric mucosa in healthy subjects.

 

The trial confirms that buffering of acetylsalicylic acid improves local gastric tolerability. Acetylsalicylic acid in combination with ascorbic acid shows significantly fewer gastric lesions and the lowest increase in gastric microbleeding compared with the other tested formulations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14984384

 

Amelioration of Aspirin Induced Oxidative Impairment and Apoptotic Cell Death by a Novel Antioxidant Protein Molecule Isolated from the Herb Phyllanthus niruri

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3929659/

 

 

Thanks for this, Logic.  I had thought that aspirin's GI problems were prostaglandin-mediated.  There's a lot going on there for such a seemingly-simple molecule!   This is useful information-- I'm surprised that no one has marketed an aspirin/vitamin C combo.  I guess it would need approval, which would explain it.
 

[aribadabar]

I'm surprised that no one has marketed an aspirin/vitamin C combo.  I guess it would need approval, which would explain it.

 

 

 

UPSA Labs has been doing it in EU for years OTC. I have used it myself.

Edited by aribadabar, 12 February 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[evilbaga]

 

 I want to include aspirin 75 mg but have a sensitive stomach so taking it with C may alleviate this?

 

I don't think C will help.  Unless the C is buffered and/or taken with food, it may do more harm than good, in terms of stomach erosion.  It's hard to get around the GI effects of aspirin.

 

 

It was my understanding that C was a weak acid. 

And if you read the literature, Pure Ascorbic Acid is superior to the Buffered form, probably because it has 2 free electrons instead of one.

[Logic]

Thanks for this, Logic.  I had thought that aspirin's GI problems were prostaglandin-mediated.  There's a lot going on there for such a seemingly-simple molecule!   This is useful information-- I'm surprised that no one has marketed an aspirin/vitamin C combo.  I guess it would need approval, which would explain it.

My pleasure Niner  

The conspiracy theorist in me wants to say its because the medical industry want to sell you Aspirin now...AND  sell you stomach ...'fixes' later...  

The 1st link is to news about a new combo pill.

And I've just seen aribadabar's post.

[nikolay]

 

Logic,

 

I take supplemental B-6 & B-12 but don't worry about the other B's as I am meeting the RDA for the other B's. Is a proper balance of B important in general or just for your regime? 

 

For a start, there is a big difference between RDA and the optimal dosages mkp6019

 

I need to re-investigate this subject myself but I dont have the inclination atm and dont remember all the details offhand.  Probably due to a lack of B vits!  

it's also somewhat of a moot point: unless you go with separate Bs, you end up taking whatever is in the multi...

 

The info is in the NAD+ and homocysteine threads IIRC.

Personally I think staying away from any form of B3 ending with amide is the most important thing as it downregulates SIRT etc and you get (...more than?) enough of the amidated B3 from food.

Large doses increase homocysteine.

Methyl donors, such as B12, (in the methylcobalamin form) and B6 counteract this.

 

So different forms have greatly different effects.

See Bentafontamine, P5P, Pyridoxamine etc.

 

As niacin/nicotinic acid causes a flush; good luck finding a multi that uses this non amidated form!

I have no idea why they don't use Inositol Hexanicotinate and/or Chromium polynicotinate and kill 2-3 birds with one stone.

Cost probably?
 

 

 

Are you sure about Niacinamide... because: http://www.life-enha...protective-role