6 replies to this topic

[Sith]

Hey everyone! 

 

There has been a lot of discussion recently about Glycine being used as a methionine restriction agent. I was wondering what the optimum dosage of Glycine would be for this to occur. There isn't a lot of information available on dosage so does anyone have any suggestions? I have glycine in powdered form and plan to mix it with warm water at night. Thanks for the help everyone. 

[phix]

You may want to check out this thread. There was some discussion about the dosage. 

 

http://www.longecity...e-be-taking-it/

[Sith]

You may want to check out this thread. There was some discussion about the dosage. 

 

http://www.longecity...e-be-taking-it/

 

I can only find dosage for sleeping... 

[Adam Karlovsky]

In the rat study that added glycine to mimick methionine restriction, the longevity effects were seen at 8% and 12% glycine. Metabolic advantages were distinguishable at 12%. http://www.fasebj.or...bstracts/528.2 

 

 

 

Seven-week-old male Fisher 344 rats were fed diets containing 0.43% Met/2.3% glycine (control fed; CF) or 0.43% Met/4%, 8% or 12% glycine until natural death. In 8% or 12% GS rats, median lifespan increased from 88 weeks (w) to 113 w, and maximum lifespan increased from 91 w to 119 w v CF. Body growth reduction was less dramatic, and not even significant in the 8% GS group. Dose-dependent reductions in several serum markers were also observed. Long-term (50 w) 12% GS resulted in reductions in mean (±SD) fasting glucose (158 ± 13 v 179 ± 46 mg/dL), insulin (0.7 ± 0.4 v 0.8 ± 0.3 ng/mL), IGF-1 (1082 ± 128 v 1407 ± 142 ng/mL) and triglyceride (113 ± 31 v 221 ± 56 mg/dL) levels compared to CF. Adiponectin, which increases with MR, did not change in GS after 12 w on diet. 

 

... the problem is I don't have access to the full article, so I cannot say whether it was 12% weight of food or 12% of total calories. If anyone has any insight into this, or has access to the full article, please do update us on this information!

 

Lets say the methionine intake was .43% of calories, that would be 2.3g of methionine for a human eating 2000kcal, which is actually close to the average intake. Lets say the glycine intake was 12% of calories, that then would be 60g of methionine for a human eating 2000kcal, which is a ridiculous amount of glycine. If this is the case, and we don't need to make adjustments for species, then it's much more feasible to just restrict methionine and eat adequate glycine, than it is to supplement large amounts of glycine.

Edited by Adam Karlovsky, 17 January 2016 - 09:09 AM.

[aribadabar]

In the rat study that added glycine to mimick methionine restriction, the longevity effects were seen at 8% and 12% glycine. Metabolic advantages were distinguishable at 12%. http://www.fasebj.or...bstracts/528.2 

 

 

 

Seven-week-old male Fisher 344 rats were fed diets containing 0.43% Met/2.3% glycine (control fed; CF) or 0.43% Met/4%, 8% or 12% glycine until natural death. In 8% or 12% GS rats, median lifespan increased from 88 weeks (w) to 113 w, and maximum lifespan increased from 91 w to 119 w v CF. Body growth reduction was less dramatic, and not even significant in the 8% GS group. Dose-dependent reductions in several serum markers were also observed. Long-term (50 w) 12% GS resulted in reductions in mean (±SD) fasting glucose (158 ± 13 v 179 ± 46 mg/dL), insulin (0.7 ± 0.4 v 0.8 ± 0.3 ng/mL), IGF-1 (1082 ± 128 v 1407 ± 142 ng/mL) and triglyceride (113 ± 31 v 221 ± 56 mg/dL) levels compared to CF. Adiponectin, which increases with MR, did not change in GS after 12 w on diet. 

 

... the problem is I don't have access to the full article, so I cannot say whether it was 12% weight of food or 12% of total calories. If anyone has any insight into this, or has access to the full article, please do update us on this information!

 

Lets say the methionine intake was .43% of calories, that would be 2.3g of methionine for a human eating 2000kcal, which is actually close to the average intake. Lets say the glycine intake was 12% of calories, that then would be 60g of methionine for a human eating 2000kcal, which is a ridiculous amount of glycine. If this is the case, and we don't need to make adjustments for species, then it's much more feasible to just restrict methionine and eat adequate glycine, than it is to supplement large amounts of glycine.

You meant 60g of glycine, right?

 

I don't see why HED would not be applicable which makes it even more ridiculous at 80-125g/day for the average 70kg human. 

 

 

At approximate 250g average weight throughout the trial (~150 at the 7w and 300+ at the end) and normally needs 60-90 cal/day

At 12% of calories being 7-11cal or 1.75-2.75g/d of glycine i.e. 7-11g/kg

 

Human Equivalent Dose (g/kg) = Animal dose (mg/kg) multiplied by Animal Km / Human Km

Where
 

Species and Km values based on body surface area
Adult Human 37 (60kg)
Child Human 25
Baboon 20
Dog 20
Monkey 12
Rabbit 12
Guinea Pig 8
Rat 6
Hamster 5
Mouse 3

Plugging in values

HED = 7-11(g/kg) x 6 (rat Km) / 37 (Human Km)

The HED = 1.13-1.78g/kg 

[Adam Karlovsky]

YES! That is a typo, and is meant to be 60g of glycine. 

If someone more knowledgeable can confirm about whether we need to convert or not, that would be well appreciated. I know g/kg does, but I don't know about w/w food and % of calories.

[docmaas]

I tried to contact Brind, the main author and seller of Sweetamine, about the article via his sweetamine web page but never got a response.  I use glycine as a sweetener and generally take 4-6 tsp/day usually accompanied by NAC which according to one research article results in glutathione replenishment.   It makes great sodas with club soda and "True Lime/Lemon/Orange) crystallized flavorings.  I use two tsp glycine and 3 packets of orange for an orange flavored drink, for lime I used a shaker rather than packets.  In the morning I use 2 tsp with freeze dried chokeberry powder.  I am highly carb sensitive and eat very low carb.

 

I'm not sure I could eat 60g/day of glycine.  It is sweet but a little less pleasant than the sucrose we grew up on.  

 

BTW there are handy dividers and multipliers for HED calculations on page 7 here: http://www.fda.gov/d...s/UCM078932.pdf

 

Mike

Edited by docmaas, 21 January 2016 - 11:05 AM.