623 replies to this topic

[Empiricus]

I bought magnesium rods and made a few batches.   I noticed symptoms of excess magnesium, and discovered the source was not the water, but my procedure.  

 

How I learned it was the procedure was that I got the same symptoms of excess magnesium on a day I didn't consume any of the water.  Naturally, I wondered what the hell was going on. Then I remembered that earlier in that day I had cleaned the rods and removed them from the vinegar by hand.  Anyway, it occurs to me that ANY skin contact with vinegar-coated magnesium rods during the cleaning stage is potentially very hazardous and could, in fact, account for more of the adverse symptoms (mainly diarrhea) people report than the magnesium-laced drinking water.   In my case, I had just touched the rods with the tips of my fingers but experienced another night of the same nervousness and nausea as I had a few days previous when I had both consumed the water and cleaned the rods. 

 

The risk of glass bottles exploding is another troubling issue with the method that seems impossible to mitigate entirely.  One person quoted in the comments of the YouTube video used a high-quality bottle, yet it exploded and he got a piece of broken glass shot deep in his foot.  

 

Finally, I really wonder how anyone can even be reasonably sure that the source of beneficial effects is, in fact, the hydrogen and not the magnesium or malic acid, both of which have been reported to have brought extraordinary health benefits to some people.  And, of course, there are much safer and far less troublesome ways to obtain both magnesium and malic acid.   

 

Edited by Empiricus, 22 September 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[aribadabar]

 

 

it occurs to me that ANY skin contact with vinegar-coated magnesium rods during the cleaning stage is potentially very hazardous 

 

I don't believe that a 1-2 minute-long exposure to the mag rods ( I assume you rinse your hands with water after the rods handling) would account for the adverse symptoms you described.

It is far too short to have any meaningful effect.

[Nate-2004]

Yeah at 3 to 4 16oz bottles a day of this I'm not experiencing any symptoms at all. I'm also kind of at my limit for water drinking at that point. There is such a thing as drinking too much water, be it H2 or otherwise. I'm already drinking coffee in the day and chamomile tea at night on top of this.

 

I have touched and dipped my fingers in the vinegar every time I make a new brew which is the same number of times a day. This is definitely not the cause of bathroom problems.

 

 

Try not to keep falling for the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

 

What's left in the water in addition to H2 is a combination of magnesium malate and to a lesser degree, magnesium hydroxide, otherwise known as milk of magnesia. Milk of magnesia is the likely cause of the problems.

Edited by Nate-2004, 22 September 2016 - 06:33 PM.

[Empiricus]

 

 

 

it occurs to me that ANY skin contact with vinegar-coated magnesium rods during the cleaning stage is potentially very hazardous 

 

I don't believe that a 1-2 minute-long exposure to the mag rods ( I assume you rinse your hands with water after the rods handling) would account for the adverse symptoms you described.

It is far too short to have any meaningful effect.

 

A relevant factor might be that my procedure involved not a cup full of vinegar as in the YouTube, but a puddle sized amount in a jar turned on its side.  I rolled the rods in the puddle of vinegar to clean them. The rods sizzle when you do this. I pulled the rods out, I got this high-mag liquid on my finger tips.  It was easily a minute before I rinsed them.  I eventually gave them a really good wash with soap, but my fingers retained a really strong smell of magnesium all through the next day.

[Empiricus]

Yeah at 3 to 4 16oz bottles a day of this I'm not experiencing any symptoms at all. I'm also kind of at my limit for water drinking at that point. There is such a thing as drinking too much water, be it H2 or otherwise. I'm already drinking coffee in the day and chamomile tea at night on top of this.

 

I have touched and dipped my fingers in the vinegar every time I make a new brew which is the same number of times a day. This is definitely not the cause of bathroom problems.

 

That's good to know it's generally not a problem to dip one's fingers in vinegar to pick the rods out.  The crucial difference, in my case, I think, is that to avoid having to go to the store to buy more vinegar I used a very small amount.  By the end, it contained so much magnesium it was white. 

 

Are you seeing any positive effects?

Edited by Empiricus, 22 September 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[streamlover]

Empiricus,

I've been making and drinking 4-7 half liters/day of this for 9 months now using the rods + malic acid method. At times while refining the procedure I had intestinal distress but with the mix I now use, there are no problems. (4-6 rods depending on size of rods and 1gm of malic acid.) Still experiencing the benefits and I notice returning inflammation and other symptoms when I skip some days. The beer-brewing bottles have never broken except for 2 times when I was placing them in the freezer and forgot them. (I now skip that step.) The H2 concentrations I obtain when I measure are always in the range of 3.0ppms. There is currently no way I know of to get these concentrations of H2 water this cheaply. (~4 cents/half-liter) If you know of one, please enlighten us! I don't believe any significant amount of Mg malate is getting absorbed through your hands...possibly the overload you had on previous days was still affecting you. No big deal, imo. The benefits associated with ingesting Mg Malate somewhat overlap those obtained with H2 water but I doubt it could account for anything close to the benefits demonstrated in the 600 or so studies done over the past 10 years on H2 water.

[Nate-2004]

 

Yeah at 3 to 4 16oz bottles a day of this I'm not experiencing any symptoms at all. I'm also kind of at my limit for water drinking at that point. There is such a thing as drinking too much water, be it H2 or otherwise. I'm already drinking coffee in the day and chamomile tea at night on top of this.

 

I have touched and dipped my fingers in the vinegar every time I make a new brew which is the same number of times a day. This is definitely not the cause of bathroom problems.

 

That's good to know it's generally not a problem to dip one's fingers in vinegar to pick the rods out.  The crucial difference, in my case, I think, is that to avoid having to go to the store to buy more vinegar I used a very small amount.  By the end, it contained so much magnesium it was white. 

 

Are you seeing any positive effects?

 

 

Sometimes I think that it's having a notable reduction effect on my essential tremor. Since I can't account for the possibility that it may be something else I'm trying, I can't exactly attribute it to the H2 water. I do notice I feel less aches and pains as people report but yet again, can it be attributed to that or is it the NR, or is it anything else I'm taking. It's hard to say. This shotgun approach has its drawbacks. Once things start improving it's difficult to determine the cause without a process of elimination and I think effects are too subtle and slow to do that effectively.

 

This is what I was talking about as far as not being quick to draw conclusions about any changes you experience day in and day out. Before I started any of this experimentation I experienced day to day differences in how I felt. Some days I was tired and in pain, other days I was pain free and energetic. Some nights I got good sleep, others I got bad. This has improved on the whole, but the variations have not changed. It's like a chart of stock value, there are ups and downs but upward trends.

[Hip]

Hi @streamlover

 

I am impressed with your experiments in making hydrogen rich water (detailed in your video, and also in this thread). I am beginning to experiment myself with DIY methods of hydrogen rich water production.

 

 

I am following your idea of using 99.99% magnesium rods, mixed with an acid like citric acid, malic acid or vinegar to produce hydrogen gas.

 

However, after reading the patent details of the Aquela hydrogen rich water maker (more info in this post), a product which claims to produce a 7.0 ppm H2 concentration, I decided to make my own version of that Aquela product. This is fairly easy: how to do it has been discussed earlier in this thread. 

 

Basically you just use a "test tube within a bottle" approach: you place the reagents (the magnesium rod and the acid) inside a test tube or a similar narrow tube, and put a stopper on the test tube to prevent the reagents from coming out; but in this stopper, you make a tiny pin-prick hole to allow the hydrogen gas to escape. Then you just drop the test tube into your bottle of water, and close the bottle lid tight. The hydrogen gas is made from the reaction that takes place inside the test tube, and none of the reagents except the hydrogen can escape into the water; the hydrogen gas bubbles into the water via the pin-prick hole.  

 

I used a 1.5 liter sparkling mineral water plastic bottle, because I read that these sort of plastic soda bottles (PET bottles) can take up 200 psi of pressure without bursting (and if they do burst, you do not get broken glass flying all over the place, so it is safer — a video of a plastic soda bottle bursting under pressure is given here). Though a smaller 500 ml soda bottle might be better.

 

 

 

Here is a very short video I made of my "test tube within a bottle" approach to creating hydrogen rich water: 

 

Making Hydrogen Rich Water - YouTube

 

 

 

Unfortunately I do not have any H2Blue drops to measure the ppm concentration of the H2 gas in the water, so I cannot verify that this method does produce a 7.0 ppm concentration as Aquela claim it does (and this claim is also made in this published study, which was cited earlier in this thread).

 

By the way, you may want to look at figure 4a of that study, because the authors found you get higher H2 ppm concentrations in water at 25ºC, compared to water at 10ºC (they found that after 12 hours in the bottle, water at 10ºC had an H2 concentration of 2.5 ppm, whereas water at 25ºC had an H2 concentration of 6 ppm).

 

So for making hydrogen rich water, it seems you are better off using water at room temperature, rather than fridge cold water. (Usually, gases are more soluble in water at colder temperatures, but apparently there are exceptions, and hydrogen is one of them, as it says here that the solubility of H2 in water initially falls and then increases with increasing temperature, when the water is under high pressure, or at high temperatures.) 

 

Interestingly, the study found that when a bottle of hydrogen rich water was not opened, it maintained the same H2 concentration 7 days later. So unopened, it will probably have a shelf life of months. But once the bottle is opened, H2 concentration drops quickly: an initial H2 concentration of 7.0 ppm dropped to 2.1 ppm after just 3 hours, once the bottle was opened. 

 

 

 

@streamlover, did you see my post here about how you could avoid loose bowels / diarrhea from the high magnesium content of your hydrogen rich water? Basically, my suggestion was to try the anti-diarrhea OTC drug loperamide 2 mg. However, if you use this "test tube within a bottle" method of making hydrogen rich water, you will not have any magnesium in your water; it will just be water plus the dissolved H2 gas. Of course, if you think the magnesium and the malate is doing you good, then you may be better off with your existing method. 

 

However, it would be great to get your feedback and your report if you did try this "test tube within a bottle" method, and if you can verify with the H2Blue drops that this does indeed produce 7.0 ppm hydrogen rich water. 

Edited by Hip, 04 October 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Why did you use vinegar instead of malic acid? One rod in a test tube was enough? How did you poke a hole in the test tube stopper? What kind of stopper is it? What size was the hole and what was it with? How do you know only hydrogen is leaking out? If only hydrogen why not use lye and aluminum? 

[aconita]

The use of magnesium and malic acid makes sense if they do come in contact with the drinking water since those are non toxic, otherwise other substances might be cheaper and producing higher amounts of hydrogen.

 

Unfortunately lye and aluminum don't go well along glass, therefore using those in a glass test tube isn't recommended.

 

I am not so sure just a tiny hole is enough to prevent leaching into the drinking water of other undesirable compounds (not of concern if mag rods and malic acid are used like in the video).

 

The main issue here is I am not convinced that one mag rod in vinegar will generate enough hydrogen to yield a satisfying hydrogen concentration, you really need to test that with H2 blue.

 

Informative post anyway and nice to see people are experimenting in order to find smart solutions. 

[Hip]

The main issue here is I am not convinced that one mag rod in vinegar will generate enough hydrogen to yield a satisfying hydrogen concentration, you really need to test that with H2 blue.

 

Yes, I wish I had some H2Blue drops (unfortunately I found out that shipping H2Blue to the UK costs $85, plus the $30 cost of the product, because it contains ethanol, and apparently this cannot be sent by regular mail, due to regulations, so needs to be sent by expensive courier).

 

In fact, because I already had some methylene blue at home, I tried to make my own H2Blue drops. This is not difficult to do.

 

To make 10 ml of H2Blue-type drops, you use the following formula: simply add 30 mg of methylene blue to 9,890 mg of ethanol, and then add 80 mg of colloidal platinum liquid (colloidal platinum liquid can be bought as a health supplement, for around $20). The colloidal platinum is just a catalyst: it allows the hydrogen in the water to react with the methylene blue, and thereby neutralize the methylene blue color. This formula for these drops is detailed in this study (see "Methods/Design" section). 

 

Then you add these drops one by one to 20 ml of the hydrogen rich water that you want to test, continuing to add the drops until the hydrogen rich water stops neutralizing the blue color of the drops (as shown in @streamlover's video at timecode 13:25). Then the concentration is given by: H2 ppm concentration = number of drops X 0.03. So for example, if after exactly 24 drops, the blue color of the drops is no longer neutralized by the hydrogen water, then your H2 concentration in that water would be 24 x 0.03 = 0.72 ppm.

 

However, when I made up my own H2Blue-type drops using the formula from the study, they did not seem to work: the blue color of even the very first drop was not neutralized by my hydrogen rich water. This failure can either be because my hydrogen rich water is duff, and in does not contain any dissolved hydrogen; or perhaps because the colloidal platinum I bought is duff (I bought it from a small obscure company in the UK). 

 

I wish I had some H2Blue drops, as at least then I could check to see if my hydrogen rich water is duff or not.

 

 

 

Regarding whether just one magnesium rod is sufficient: as far as I can see, I don't think the number of rods will make any difference. It is the amount of acid that you place in the test tube that is the limiting factor. Like @streamlover, I was using around 1.5 grams of citric acid powder, or malic acid power (I also used vinegar). Once this 1.5 grams of citric acid completely reacts with the magnesium rod, the reaction stops, and no more hydrogen is made. But there is plenty of magnesium left on the rod, and if I add more citric acid to the test tube, the reaction starts up again. So it is the amount of acid you add to the test tube that determines how long the reaction goes on for, and much hydrogen is created.

 

However, without being able to test the H2 concentrations using H2Blue drops, I cannot really know what type of H2 concentrations I am producing using this method.

 

What does concern me is the following statement in the study that details how to use the "test tube within a bottle" method:

"During the reaction, the H2 gas reduced the height of the water level in the standing bottle, which was gradually pressurized to approximately 4.5 atmospheric pressures by the gas after 24 h at room temperature. After the reaction was terminated, the H2 gas was dissolved by shaking the bottle for about 30 s."

 

 

So the study says that as the hydrogen gas is produced, it accumulates at the top of the bottle (see the picture Fig 1d in that study), thereby pushing the water level in the bottle down a bit. The study then says that this H2 gas at the top of the bottle was dissolved by shaking the bottle for about 30 seconds. 

 

I was also getting the H2 gas accumulating at the top of my bottle, pushing the water level down by a couple of centimeters, similar to the picture Fig 1d shown in the study. But shaking my bottle did not cause any of this hydrogen gas to dissolve in the water. I shook the bottle a lot, but the same volume of H2 gas always remained at the top of the bottle. So I am not sure how the authors of the study got their H2 gas to dissolve into the water just by shaking the bottle.

 

Maybe they used more of the reagents, thereby producing more hydrogen, and thereby increasing the pressure inside their bottle. Increased pressure might then make the gas more soluble on shaking. At the moment, I have no means to measure the pressure inside my bottle (but I might buy a cheap car pressure gauge on eBay for this purpose).

 

In the study, they say the pressure in their bottle was 4.5 atmospheres (= 66 psi).

 

 

 

 

I am not so sure just a tiny hole is enough to prevent leaching into the drinking water of other undesirable compounds (not of concern if mag rods and malic acid are used like in the video).

 

I found that provided you keep the bottle and the test tube inside vertical, almost no reagents get into the water. This is because I don't fill the test tube completely (I leave around a 1 cm gap at the top, as you can see in my video, when I fill the test tube with vinegar). So there is not really any way for the reagents to get out. 

 

But if you start shaking the bottle a lot, or turn it upside down, then you do get some of the reagents leaking out of the test tube and into the water. But that is why I use 99.99% magnesium and citric, malic or acetic acid: because this just creates a safe-to-consume magnesium salts. 

Edited by Hip, 04 October 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[aconita]

An easy way to test your self made H2 blue is by using it on hydrogen water made "traditionally" (mag rods and malic acid in the water) since we do know that the method yields a good percentage of hydrogen dissolved in the water.

 

The amount of rods does have its role since more surface is exposed, not because there is more mag.

 

I guess you don't get much hydrogen dissolved when shaking because too low pressure, drill a hole in the bottle cap and place there a bicycle tyre valve, than measure the pressure with a BICYCLE pump equipped with a pressure gauge (you can buy one for really only few bucks), bicycle tyres get inflated at a much higher pressure than cars, a car pressure gauge will be not fit to measure much above 3PSI while a bicycle one easily goes up to 12PSI.  

 

I wonder what will happen pumping the bottle pressure up with the bicycle pump....maybe that will be enough to get more hydrogen dissolved.

 

Leaving less empty room in the bottle might help to increase pressure too since water is almost not compressible.

 

Keep us updated, of course!

 

 

 

 

[streamlover]

Hip, good stuff...glad to see more experimenting on improving this method. Couple of questions for you. Do you see a continuous stream of bubbles coming from the pinhole? For how long? I agree with aconita that the total surface area of the rods makes a difference on how much H2 is generated. The rods will develop an Mg oxide coating after reacting a while and one rod will stop reacting sooner than 4 for a given amount of H2 generated. In my experience the shaking of the bottle for 30 seconds or so does seem to get more H2 in solution but it won't be evident by less space in the bottle. I don't think the dissolved H2 molecules increase the volume of the water any. (Btw, even though intuitively it seems more acid would mean more H2 generated, when I cut back from 4 to 2 to 1 gm of malic acid for the same number of rods, the concentrations don't diminish appreciably.) I can't verify this shaking helps because each batch has different parameters...mainly the quality of the particular bottle used and sealing job on that batch varies so even though I may shake one and then not the next, hard to compare. But I'm pretty sure my concentrations have averaged a little better since adding this to the procedure.

 

When you open your container, do you get a pop or fizz? The pops seem to be a good indication of concentrations. You've piqued my interest enough that I may get a test tube and stopper and try it. I'm also going to try another experiment when I get time. I'm going to try heating the rods, either in a toaster oven before inserting or microwave already inserted, (if it starts crackling, I'll abort!) to make the reaction even more vigorous initially for a while. The boiling water was so much better than room temp water so maybe this will help a little also.

 

The guy that helped me with some good suggestions when I was first experimenting seems to have his H2 product for sale now. https://www.drinkhrw.com/base/home It's another pill similar to the other pills on the market but he claims much higher concentrations than the other pills...Active H2, etc. He doesn't have his ingredients listed on the site yet but I'm sure it's the familiar Mg+acid+binder. His binder is lactose and that's an improvement over the other pills. I asked him what his Mg powder is rated for purity and he said 99.99% or 99.9%...couldn't remember.(!) Big difference, imo, but at least he said it was US sourced. I'm going to wait a while for reviews and then possibly try a bottle of it. It still has the $1/pill drawback but I'd like to see if drinking 6ppm water would be noticeably better than 3ppm. I'd like to know if his Mg is 99.99 or 99.9 also.

[Hip]

An easy way to test your self made H2 blue is by using it on hydrogen water made "traditionally" (mag rods and malic acid in the water) since we do know that the method yields a good percentage of hydrogen dissolved in the water.

 

Good idea.

 

So over the last few hours, I just made a new batch of hydrogen rich water, using @streamlover's "traditional" method, putting 2 grams of citric acid and one magnesium rod in a 500 ml bottle of water filled to the top.

 

However, it seems my home made methylene blue drops still do not work with this water: even just one drop remains blue, and does not turn clear. So I guess there is a problem with my drops. 

 

I really want to get these home made drops working, because then you would have a much cheaper option. Methylene blue is inexpensive: 25 grams costs around $10 — enough to make over 300 bottles of H2Blue!

 

 

 

 

The amount of rods does have its role since more surface is exposed, not because there is more mag.

 

I guess more rods will create a faster reaction, due to more surface area, producing the same amount of H2 in a shorter time. However, I am not sure if there would be any advantages to this for my "test tube within a bottle" method, apart from just speeding up the process. Although perhaps in @streamlover's "traditional" method, more rods might be helpful, because in this method, the acid is relatively weak, given that the 1.5 grams of malic acid powder is diluted in 500 ml of the water. 

 

Whereas in the "test tube within a bottle" method, the 1.5 grams of malic acid powder is diluted less, since the test tube the malic acid powder is placed in is only about 50 ml in volume. Thus it becomes a stronger acid in that smaller volume. Even with cold water and just one rod, I find you get a pretty vigorous reaction going on inside the test tube.

 

 

 

 

I guess you don't get much hydrogen dissolved when shaking because too low pressure, drill a hole in the bottle cap and place there a bicycle tyre valve, than measure the pressure with a BICYCLE pump equipped with a pressure gauge 

 

OK, I am going to try this, and see if I can measure the pressure. Although it might not give very accurate results, because the reservoir of hydrogen gas in my bottle is small in volume, just a few cubic centimeters, and when measuring pressure, as this H2 gas goes along the pipe and into the pressure gauge, its occupied volume will be enlarged, and this will cause some drop in pressure. (You don't get this problem when measuring tyre pressures, because the tyre volume is large in comparison to the gauge's internal volume.)

 

 

 

 

Leaving less empty room in the bottle might help to increase pressure too since water is almost not compressible.

 

Yes, I have started doing that now, filling the bottle to the very top with water, so that there is no air space initially. I find that once the hydrogen is produced, it creates an air space, and pushes the water level down a few centimeters. I think this air space is created by the pressure of the hydrogen gas causing the plastic bottle to expand in size slightly, like a balloon inflating.

 

This expansion would not be possible in a glass bottle, because glass is rigid and cannot expand, and water is not compressible. So in a glass bottle, I would guess that you do not get any hydrogen gas accumulating at the top of the bottle, because there is no space for it. Which I think means in a glass bottle, the pressure may build up to higher levels, forcing more hydrogen to dissolve into the water (especially if you initially filled the bottle right to the top with water), because there is no possibility of expanding the bottle and creating space for the hydrogen to accumulate as a gas. 

 

Although I understand that swing top beer bottle rubber seals are designed to let the pressure escape before you get to the critical pressure where the bottle would explode. So you may not get more than around 3 atmospheres (44 psi) in a glass beer bottle (which I think is the maximum pressure the glass can hold). 

 

Whereas a plastic soda bottle will only explode when it reaches pressures of around 14 atmospheres (200 psi). So plastic soda bottles can hold much more pressure. But when only very small volumes of hydrogen are being produced, perhaps the slight balloon-like expansion of plastic bottles means that it will be at a lower pressure, compared to using a rigid glass bottle.

 

It seems like a complicated situation, and in fact it is hard to say whether a glass beer bottle or a plastic soda bottle will create the highest internal pressures when small volumes of hydrogen gas are created. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hip, 05 October 2016 - 04:21 AM.

[Hip]

 

Hip, good stuff...glad to see more experimenting on improving this method.

 

 

Do you see a continuous stream of bubbles coming from the pinhole? For how long?

 

I am having fun experimenting too!

 

Yes, there is a continuous stream of bubbles. You can see the rate of bubble production towards the end of my video. I have not timed it accurately, but I think the bubbles continue for around 10 or 20 minutes, and then come to a stop as the acid runs out.

 

 

 

The rods will develop an Mg oxide coating after reacting a while and one rod will stop reacting sooner than 4 for a given amount of H2 generated.

 

You definitely get a coating on the rods. I am guessing this coating is mostly magnesium malate or magnesium citrate, from the reaction with malic acid or citric acid; and perhaps there will also be a bit of magnesium oxide, from the reaction of the magnesium with the water.

 

(Although having said that, magnesium malate or magnesium citrate are soluble, whereas magnesium oxide is not, so perhaps there is quite a bit of magnesium oxide in the coating.)

 

However, I find that even with my rod coated in this way, it does not seem to impede the reaction, because after the reaction has stopped, due to the acid running out, if I drop in some more malic acid or citric acid powder into my test tube, even without cleaning the magnesium rod, the reaction then continues. So as far as I can see, the coating build-up on the rod does not seem to be a limiting factor in the reaction, in the "test tube in a bottle" method.

 

 

 

When you open your container, do you get a pop or fizz? The pops seem to be a good indication of concentrations. 

 

Yes, as I unscrew the top of the plastic bottle, there is a sudden escape of gas, similar to what you get when you unscrew a Coke bottle.

 

 

 

The boiling water was so much better than room temp water so maybe this will help a little also

 

Do you think this could be because when you boil water, it expels dissolved oxygen and other dissolved gases, thereby possibly making more "room" in the water for the H2 to dissolve in? Just a thought.

 

 

Edited by Hip, 05 October 2016 - 04:32 AM.

[Junk Master]

I drink between 32 and 64 oz of hydrogen rich water per day made with 2 1/2 rods and 1.5 grams of malic acid and have no intestinal distress because I just pour the water straight from the fridge though a Brita water filter ($9).  Before doing so I did a search to see if the Brita filters removed magnesium and most results said they did.  This also removes some of my apprehension about residual heavy metals because of the rods being from China.

 

Is the hydrogen rich water a replacement for MK677?  IMO they don't really do the same thing.  MK677 was chiefly useful for improving the quality of my sleep as well as sleep onset.

 

Hydrogen rich water seems to speed recovery from endurance workouts as well as mitigate DOMS (muscle soreness).  Placebo effect?  Well, it doesn't really matter if I feel it's helping, does it?  Plus, I really fail to see how getting some extra hydration when ramping up endurance exercise can be a bad thing.  A little extra magnesium wouldn't hurt either, so occasionally I forego the filtering of a 16oz bottle.

 

I must say that on the occasions I drink MORE than 64 oz of hydrogen water, say if I run for over 60 minutes, there are still times I experience a little rumbling in my stomach, usually in the morning.  Makes me question how effective the Brita filter is, or how quickly they need to be replaced.

 

In any event, for the cost, I'm quite pleased to keep hydrogen rich water as part of my supplement regimen.

[aconita]

That's interesting since you do have experience with both MK677 and Hydrogen water, may you say that hydrogen water is weaker than MK677 on what could be the HGH boosting effect or they are just too different to compare by sensation?

 

Anything in common that you did notice?

 

Of course hydrogen water works on other levels too but it would be interesting to compare the ghrelin boosting propriety. 

[malbecman]

Not sure if this has been brought up before but it looks like you need to be careful with the storage of your H2 water as it can diffuse quickly out of glass

and plastic containers.   This was taken from the 2015 Methods in Enzymology book chapter by Shigeo Ohta "H₂-water can be made by several methods: infusing H₂ gas into water under high pressure, electrolyzing water to produce H₂, and reacting magnesium metal or its hydride with water. These methods may be applicable not only to water but also to other solvents. H₂ penetrates glass and plastic walls of any vessel in a short time, while aluminum containers can retain H₂ for a long time."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Methods in Enzymology

Volume 555, 2015, Pages 289–317

Hydrogen Sulfide in Redox Biology, Part B

 

Chapter Fifteen – Molecular Hydrogen as a Novel Antioxidant: Overview of the Advantages of Hydrogen for Medical Applications

• Shigeo Ohta^, 

 

 Show more

  http://dx.doi.org/10...mie.2014.11.038

 

Edited by malbecman, 06 October 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[aconita]

Absolutely right but it concerns relatively long storage times, when talking about few hours it is practically irrelevant.

[Nate-2004]

I read somewhere (in this thread?) that it can be retained in glass up to and perhaps beyond 7 days.

[aconita]

Glass is permeable to hydrogen but the escape rate depends by the kind of glass, its thickness, the pressure and the temperature...therefore it is hard to tell how much hydrogen we'll loose in one day, likely for our purposes the cap is of much greater concern than the bottle itself...and still almost negligible for only few hours.

[Nate-2004]

I get the biggest pops in the  morning, after about 8 hrs of fridge time. 

 

Sadly I'm out of H2 water, and my tremor is naturally getting worse again. I wish it were a permanent effect. Waiting on gaskets because mine all wore out. Wish you could find the full gasket seals for sale but I can only find the regular kind for those easy cap flip top majiggers.

Edited by Nate-2004, 06 October 2016 - 10:12 PM.

[Hip]

I read somewhere (in this thread?) that it can be retained in glass up to and perhaps beyond 7 days.

 

 

Yes, it was in the study on the "test tube within a bottle" method of making hydrogen rich water that the authors found an unopened plastic bottle keeps the H2 concentration preserved for 7 days:

 

Furthermore, to examine the stability without opening, H2 concentration was measured after 7 days. As shown in Fig. 4c, the H2 concentration of the water was maintained above 8 ppm (8.30 ± 0.98 ppm) after 7 days without the opening of the bottle. These results suggest that the H2 concentration is maintained for at least 7 days without opening, but the H2 water should be drunk within 2 h after opening.

Edited by Hip, 06 October 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[Hip]

One point I would like to make:

 

I have now used both @streamlover's "traditional" method of making hydrogen rich water (magnesium rod and acid powder placed in the water in the bottle), and the "test tube within a bottle" method (magnesium rod and acid powder placed in a test tube to react, inserted into the bottle, but isolated from the water in the bottle).

 

In both cases, when I open the bottle, there is a release of pressurized H2 gas, similar to what you get when opening a Coke bottle.

 

However, the difference is that when I open a bottle made with the "traditional" method, you see lots of effervescence (bubbles suddenly appearing) in the water of the bottle itself, as a result of the release of pressure, just like when you open a bottle of Coke: lots of bubbles suddenly appearing in the Cola liquid, and rising up to the surface.

 

Whereas when I open a bottle made with the "test tube within a bottle" method, although you get a release of pressure as you open it, there is no effervescence (no bubbles appearing) in the water itself — you do not seem to get any precipitation of bubbles in the water.

 

I am not sure why this is, or whether it has any significance. 

 

Edited by Hip, 06 October 2016 - 10:30 PM.

[Hip]

Further to my above post, here are two very short videos I made showing the bubbling (or lack thereof):

 

Lots of bubbling on opening bottle made with "traditional" method - YouTube

 

No bubbles when opening bottle made with "test tube within bottle" method - YouTube

 

 

You can see on the first video, as soon as I open the cap of the bottle of hydrogen rich water made with @streamlover's "traditional" method, there are so many tiny bubbles appearing in the water in the bottle, that the bubbles actually cause the water to gush out of the top of the bottle. You can see that the clear water in the bottle takes on a cloudy, milky appearance for several seconds, as a result of all the tiny bubbles of H2 gas (at the MHF, they say that undissolved H2 looks “milky” or “foggy” ).  

 

Whereas in the second video, as I open the cap of the bottle of hydrogen rich water made with the "test tube within a bottle" method, no bubbles appear at all in the water of the bottle. The water remains clear. You can see in the video that I even try to make some bubbles appear by putting some grains of sugar into the bottle (sugar grains act as a nucleation centers, and will normally precipitate the bubbles in a fizzy drink); but even then, no bubbles appear. 

 

However, if you watch the second video carefully, you will notice that bubbles do appear within the test tube inside the bottle when the bottle is opened. 

 

In both these videos, the acid used was citric acid power, 2 grams. The green bottle I used is a 500 ml bottle that originally contained sparkling mineral water.

 

 

As for which method produces the highest H2 ppm concentration, I still do not know, as I currently have no way of measuring it.

Edited by Hip, 08 October 2016 - 03:05 AM.

[normalizing]

hi i lost track of this thread as i was away and didnt subscribe, in short, did you guys find the best hydrogen water available source as of yet or what?

[hotbit]

@Hip
Thank you for details and sharing.

 

In the 'test tube within bottle' case it seems very little H2 is dissolved, thus no effervescence. 

Have you observed small bubbles leaving the test tube? 
I assume tiny bubbles are leaving the test tube, water in the bottle have contact with those bubbles only from time to time and with H2 gathered under the closure. There is very little contact so little gas is expected to dissolve. When water has direct contact with Mg, H2 molecules can be trapped immediately (after the reaction, before forming bubbles) between water molecules and / or huge number of bubbles formed on the rod makes surface contact (between gaseous H2 and water) much bigger. 

 

I expect leaving this setup for a week would improve the level of dissolved H2 in the drinking water.

 

This is just a speculation and proper tests would be definitive.

[Hip]

In the 'test tube within bottle' case it seems very little H2 is dissolved, thus no effervescence. 

Have you observed small bubbles leaving the test tube? 
I assume tiny bubbles are leaving the test tube, water in the bottle have contact with those bubbles only from time to time and with H2 gathered under the closure. There is very little contact so little gas is expected to dissolve. When water has direct contact with Mg, H2 molecules can be trapped immediately (after the reaction, before forming bubbles) between water molecules and / or huge number of bubbles formed on the rod makes surface contact (between gaseous H2 and water) much bigger. 

 

I expect leaving this setup for a week would improve the level of dissolved H2 in the drinking water.

 

This is just a speculation and proper tests would be definitive.

 

That was my first thought, that H2 is not being dissolved in the water in the "test tube within a bottle" method, and hence the lack of effervescence. 

 

However, my "test tube within a bottle" method is closely based on the setup used in the Aquela commercial hydrogen rich water product (more info in this post), which claims to create a very high H2 concentration of 7.0 ppm. 

 

 

ave you observed small bubbles leaving the test tube? 

I assume tiny bubbles are leaving the test tube, water in the bottle have contact with those bubbles only from time to time and with H2 gathered under the closure. There is very little contact so little gas is expected to dissolve. When water has direct contact with Mg, H2 molecules can be trapped immediately (after the reaction, before forming bubbles) between water molecules and / or huge number of bubbles formed on the rod makes surface contact (between gaseous H2 and water) much bigger. 

 

I expect leaving this setup for a week would improve the level of dissolved H2 in the drinking water.

 

Yes, there is a stream of tiny bubbles leaving the test tube, which you can see a timecode 0:36 in my earlier video. This H2 gas collects at the top of the bottle, but because I leave my bottle standing for 12 hours before opening it, my assumption is that the H2 collected at the top of the bottle will slowly dissolve in the water. This is what happens in the Aquela product: if you look at figure 4a in the study that pertains to the Aquela product, you see that they achieve a H2 concentration in the water of around 6 ppm after leaving the bottle to stand for 12 hours (at 25ºC), and around 8 ppm after 24 hours.

 

However, without being able to measure my ppm using H2Blue, I cannot verify that I have any hydrogen in the water.

 

When I reacted 5 grams of citric acid powder with the magnesium rod using the "test tube within a bottle" method, the amount of H2 gas that collects at the top of the bottle is around 0.5 liters (of course this is compressed under pressure into a small space at the top of the bottle, but once you release the H2 gas, I measured its volume at normal atmospheric pressure to be around 0.5 liters). So there is quite a bit of hydrogen there.

 

Edited by Hip, 11 October 2016 - 11:29 PM.

[normalizing]

sounds complicated. so its safe to assume there is still yet no cheap available source for hydrogen water but you guys are building something from scratch. sucks!

[Hip]

so its safe to assume there is still yet no cheap available source for hydrogen water but you guys are building something from scratch. sucks!

 

No, it is not safe to assume that, because if you look at @streamlover's video in this post on the first page of this thread, he details a simple and very cheap method of a creating hydrogen rich water at a potent 3 ppm concentration. This is a tried and test method.