392 replies to this topic

[Steve H]

I am sure you are all aware of this but just in case:

https://www.lifespan...ease-longevity/

 

This is the new NMN project from the Sinclair Lab over at Lifespan.io. Both wild-type mice for a lifespan study + ICE mice for behaviour study and initial results.

[bluemoon]

Why is Sinclair crowd sourcing chump change ($30,000) like this?

[able]

Why is Sinclair crowd sourcing chump change ($30,000) like this?

 

For the publicity?

[bluemoon]

But it doesn't seem like good publicity? What's next?

 

January 2019: "We are raising $10,000 for five top of the line laptops to further our NMN research goals and YOU can be a part of it!"

[Steve H]

I am hoping we might have an AMA to address such questions. 

Edited by Steve H, 20 September 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[OP2040]

Looks like NMN is taking a clear lead among NAD+ boosters.  This from one of the chief scientists in the Sinclair lab:

 

 

 

There are a number of what we call NAD+ precursors, including NR, niacin, and NMN. Can you explain how they are different from each other and what makes NMN potentially the most interesting in regards to NAD+ repletion?

 

There are many metabolic routes by which NAD+ is produced. The body can make it de novo from tryptophan or from external vitamins, such as niacin or NR. Most importantly, free nicotinamide in our cells, the product of NAD+ hydrolysis, can be remade into NAD+ through the salvage pathway. In this pathway, NMN is the direct precursor to NAD+ – just one enzymatic step away. In our lab, we found that giving NMN exogenously can raise NAD+ in most of the tissues that we have tested (liver, muscle, kidney, immune cells, and blood).

 

[VP.]

Stardust Bio has a nice opinion piece on NAD+, NMN, NR, Niacin etc. You really should read it. Very well done and balanced. 

Nicotinamide Riboside - Explained, All Research and Truth

 

Nicotinamide Riboside has always given me a level of discomfort, due to the fact that this supplement has had a lot of money thrown at it marketing wise. 

Marketed as THE anti-aging pill by many scientists cashing in their credentials. The supplement is originally invented by Chromadex, also brand name known as Niagen. 

When research came out that NAD levels could potentially slow down or reverse aging. It just also happened that Chromadex had a compound that did that, but not in humans, nor are the doses close to what would be used in humans via allometric scaling.

Similar to Reservatrol that came before it, Nicotinamide Riboside received Hollywood levels of hype, praise, marketing, news, and speculation, ultimately all the monetary interest in pushing people to buy the supplement suffocated whatever truth or function Nicotinamide Riboside provided based on evidence.

So this research topic, we want to answer the question of - What exactly is Nicotinamide Riboside? Most importantly is it the real deal or just another overhyped supplement?

 

https://stardust.bio...earch-and-truth

Edited by VP., 26 September 2018 - 05:56 PM.

[Nate-2004]

Has anyone lab tested Alive By Nature's NMN to ensure it is what it is?

[able]

Has anyone lab tested Alive By Nature's NMN to ensure it is what it is?

 

Lawrence had their capsules  tested some months ago - no idea what thread that was on.

 

Also, they post certificates online of test results they get from a couple of different labs.

[Gediminas Jesinas]

What about getting whole NAD+ precursors from baker's or brewers yeast?

[Joe Garma]

As you all know most of the studies have been on rodents, except one human trial sponsored by Elysium Health, the maker of Basis (NR + Pterostilbene), which showed that 250 mg/day increased NAD+ by 40% over baeline and 500 mg by 90% over baseline in 30 days.  Human trial link: https://www.elysiumh...l-trial-results

 

I've been a steady user of Basis for about 2 years. Didn't notice anything, but that's typical w/ my experience of supplements, perhaps because I'm not sick or deficient in the whatever they provide, or the effects are not perceivable in the short run. (Disclaimer: I've written about Basis and enough people purchased it via my affiliate link that my entire supply has been given to my by Elysium.)

 

Prohealth recently came out with a sublingual form of NMN that is supposed to be more bioavailable than NR in Basis, and I just began taking that to see if there's a noticeable difference. (Disclaimer: I've consulted for Prohealth and am a friend of its Founder.)

 

I was attracted to NMN through Dr. Sinclair's research (undeniably among the handful of NAD experts); he seems to have been focusing on NMN in his most recent study.  Intrigued by the NR/NMN debate re which precursor better activates NAD+, I wrote a review in an article called, Can NAD+ Precursor NR and NMN Make You Young Again https://www.garmaonh...mn-young-again/

 

The bottom line is that both look promising, but we won't know which is more effective until more research is done. In the meantime, my plan is to test NMN some more by itself and then probably add NR.

[OP2040]

It seems we are going into a situation of relative abundance.  There are now quite a few different interventions for senescent cells and nutrient sensing.  As frustrating as the endless debating can be, this is a fantastic thing for the future.  Imagine a world where we had just one possible anti-aging substance for a particular aging target.  That's a world of monopoly and scarcity where the poor are completely left out, and the wealthy are in constant fear that the supply chains will break down. 

 

btw, I agree that NMN/NR are not really that much different and am fairly neutral when it comes to which should be taken.  I personally take NMN because that is where the newest research is being done and broadly speaking newer research is better research due to scientific progress.

[able]

As you all know most of the studies have been on rodents, except one human trial sponsored by Elysium Health, the maker of Basis (NR + Pterostilbene), which showed that 250 mg/day increased NAD+ by 40% over baeline and 500 mg by 90% over baseline in 30 days.  Human trial link: https://www.elysiumh...l-trial-results

 

I've been a steady user of Basis for about 2 years. Didn't notice anything, but that's typical w/ my experience of supplements, perhaps because I'm not sick or deficient in the whatever they provide, or the effects are not perceivable in the short run. (Disclaimer: I've written about Basis and enough people purchased it via my affiliate link that my entire supply has been given to my by Elysium.)

 

Prohealth recently came out with a sublingual form of NMN that is supposed to be more bioavailable than NR in Basis, and I just began taking that to see if there's a noticeable difference. (Disclaimer: I've consulted for Prohealth and am a friend of its Founder.)

 

I was attracted to NMN through Dr. Sinclair's research (undeniably among the handful of NAD experts); he seems to have been focusing on NMN in his most recent study.  Intrigued by the NR/NMN debate re which precursor better activates NAD+, I wrote a review in an article called, Can NAD+ Precursor NR and NMN Make You Young Again https://www.garmaonh...mn-young-again/

 

The bottom line is that both look promising, but we won't know which is more effective until more research is done. In the meantime, my plan is to test NMN some more by itself and then probably add NR.

 

Ah, nice to see another supplier of sublingual NMN.  Since ABN keeps running out of stock,  I'll give prohealth a try now.

[bluemoon]

As you all know most of the studies have been on rodents, except one human trial sponsored by Elysium Health, the maker of Basis (NR + Pterostilbene), which showed that 250 mg/day increased NAD+ by 40% over baeline and 500 mg by 90% over baseline in 30 days.   

 

There was also the U of Coloado Boulder trial that showed 1000 mg of NR boosted NAD+ by 60% after six weeks but based on the Elysium trial, that 60% was a level that was heading down fom over 100% at week four and likely decreases to the 40% to 55% range of 250 mg to 500 mg.

 

By the way, a new Chomadex commercial is misleading by saying a "dose" of NR raises NAD+ levels by 60%. Yeah, in small letters they say that a dose is 1,000 mg even though they recommend 250 mg a day, but most people won't catch that. Poor form and makes Chomadex look a little like a hustler supplement company even though it very likely has a good product.. 

[Joe Garma]

Didn't know about the U Boulder trail, thanks for that.  Yes, have read that the NAD+ boost is only maintained if the precursors are consumed.

[bluemoon]

Didn't know about the U Boulder trail, thanks for that.  Yes, have read that the NAD+ boost is only maintained if the precursors are consumed.

 

The Chromadex study with 140 people taking 100 mg, 300 mg, 1,000 mg and a placebo was completed 18 months ago in April 2017 and no publication yet. Elysium had their study published last November, almost a year ago.

 

https://clinicaltria...namide riboside

[JackA]

NR is produced by a company called Chromadex using patents licensed from Dartmouth and some other institutions. They have their own brand Tru Niagen. HPN and Life Extension sell re-labeled Chromadex NR. Many companies that used to sell NR no longer do as a result of Chromadex going straight to consumer with their Tru Niagen brand. There is also a company called Elysium that sells NR (with pterostilbene - you can also get pterostilbene from Chromadex) but Elysium's NR is not sourced from Chromadex and there is ongoing litigation regarding that. Personally, I feel it is safe to purchase NR from either HPN or Life Extension but when you can buy it directly from Chromadex I'm not sure why one would, although I haven't looked at the pricing lately from the resellers. I would shy away from Elysium as that whole situation is a bit caustic and I'd rather go with a company that has a good reputation than one that behaves in the fashion that Elysium has, but that's just me. I wouldn't blame anyone for any choice they made in that regard though, I'm a "don't tread on me" kinda guy.

Hey there, 

Let me just share my thoughts on this. I'd love to hear yours. 

I really liked this post. And it seems to be unbiased too. Personally, I have been playing with the idea to start my journey on NR too. (I am 42 so I think it is time.) 

I kinda understand that Elysium is the bad guy here and no one seems to like them. Again I have been doing my research and as part of it I also like to test the companies in a way how you can get in touch with them etc. What they say, if there is any personal advice.. 

 

Overall, it seems to me the biggest player is ABN when it comes to NMN. I liked their website, contacted them but they have never got back to me. I am not too concerned plus obviously many people use them as they keep running out of stock.  

 

As -not biologist, chemist - an ordinary guy, however, I like the idea that is coming form ChromDex (Tru Niagen) and I dare to say from Elysium Heath. Which is scientists and research behind their products. (I know about their law suit I do not wanna go into that. Everyone can make up their own mind.) I know other suppliers but I narrowed down my research to these two and kinda decided to go with NR first.  I like that these companies have wiki page and ChromaDex is a listed company. Dr Charles Banner and Dr Leonard Guarente. Because of the Elysium issue I thought okay, I was going to choose Tru Niagen. But a quite strange thing happened. I contacted them and they have never got back to me. I sent them 4 emails but noting. It seems like they have a non-existent-customer-care. Well, as an average guy it made me uneasy. So I did not place an order.  I also contacted Elysium and they always reply within no time, with personalized help and advice. It is good and makes me feel more comfortable but still hesitating. 

 

I also checked Facebook pages. Elysium has crazy number of followers. Sure big part might be for promotional purposes but quite convincing. ChromaDex has minimal followers no activity considering how big the company is. Also you cannot contact them there.

 

ABN has a quite decent Facebook page but my concern is that there is no real face behind them. There seems to be real posts but many seem to be promotional only. 

 

What is my question? How you guys made the decision? Is anyone here who uses Basis? Tru Niagen? Majority seems to be using ABN here which obviously a decent company but I could not find a scientist founder or any interview etc? 

 

Appreciate your time and answer.

 

JA

[Joe Garma]

Interesting. I wonder why Niagen recommends it that way. They should at least give a reason why. Like it makes sense L-tryptophan needs to be taken on an empty stomach because it competes with other amino acids but I find it annoying when other products say to take on an empty stomach and don’t list the reason why like Citrus Bergmont, nattokinase, rhodiola,etc.

 

David Sinclair takes 1 gram of NMN + 500 mgs of resveratrol in the morning w/ his full-fat yogurt.

[bluemoon]

David Sinclair takes 1 gram of NMN + 500 mgs of resveratrol in the morning w/ his full-fat yogurt.

 

Sinclair used to take 1 gram of resveratrol with yogurt along with 500 mg of NMN and wonder what made him switch.

 

Charles Brenner started with 250 mg of NR each morning but raised that to 500 mg a day in 2017.

 

I take 250 mg of Niagen each morning but would consider getting Elysium Basis if I didn't have to be on a year long subscription for the best price.   

[efficientcommittee]

(Not my work) This may be helpful, if you are looking for related research links!

• Long-Term Administration of Nicotinamide Mononucleotide Mitigates Age-Associated Physiological Decline in Mice (2016)
• Chronic nicotinamide riboside supplementation is well-tolerated and elevates NAD+ in healthy middle-aged and older adults (2018)
• Nicotinamide riboside is uniquely and orally bioavailable in mice and humans (2016)
• Nicotinamide mononucleotide supplementation reverses vascular dysfunction and oxidative stress with aging in mice (2016)
• A conserved NAD+ binding pocket that regulates protein-protein interactions during aging (2017)
• Nicotinamide mononucleotide, a key NAD(+) intermediate, treats the pathophysiology of diet- and age-induced diabetes in mice (2011)

Clinical trials yet to be completed on NAD+ interventions in humans:

• The first human clinical study for NMN has started in Japan (2016)
• Japanese clinical trial: Assessment of the safety of nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) in healthy subjects; phase I study. The clinical trial to evaluate metabolic-syndrome-related parameters to develop NMN as Foods with Function Claims (created 2016/03/03)
• Japanese clinical trial: Effect of long-term oral administration of nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) on human health (created 2017/01/20)
• US clinical trial: Effect of "Nicotinamide Mononucleotide" (NMN) on Cardiometabolic Function (NMN) (created May 12, 2017)
• Japanese clinical trial: Assessment of the safety of long-term nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) in healthy subjects; phase II study. The clinical trial to evaluate metabolic-syndrome-related parameters to develop NMN as Foods with Function Claims (created 2017/12/29)
• US clinical trial: Nicotinamide Riboside in Systolic Heart Failure (created February 6, 2018)
• US clinical trial: NR in Chemo-induced Peripheral Neuropathy (created August 22, 2018)

 

Edited by efficientcommittee, 17 March 2019 - 10:42 PM.

[bluemoon]

 

• Japanese clinical trial: Effect of long-term oral administration of nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) on human health (created 2017/01/20)  

 

 

This Japanese trial only tests NMN at 100 mg and 200 mg a day. I guess others will have to run 500 mg NMN trials.

[JamesPaul]

New paper, “Dihydronicotinamide riboside is a potent NAD+ concentration enhancer in vitro and in vivo,” Yue Yang et al., Journal of Biological Chemistry, April 4, 2019.

 

http://www.jbc.org/c...ae-3b87cf866707

 

from the abstract:  “Herein we describe synthesis of dihydronicotinamide riboside (NRH) and the discovery that NRH is a potent NAD+ concentration enhancing agent, which acts within as little as 1 hr after administration to mammalian cells to increase NAD+ by 2.5-10 fold over control values. Comparisons to NR and NMN show that in every instance NRH provides greater NAD+ increases at equivalent concentrations...NRH substantially increases NAD+/NADH ratio in cultured cells and in liver, and no induction of apoptotic markers or significant increases in lactate levels in cells.”

[Fredrik]

New paper, “Dihydronicotinamide riboside is a potent NAD+ concentration enhancer in vitro and in vivo,” Yue Yang et al., Journal of Biological Chemistry, April 4, 2019.

 

http://www.jbc.org/c...ae-3b87cf866707

 

from the abstract:  “Herein we describe synthesis of dihydronicotinamide riboside (NRH) and the discovery that NRH is a potent NAD+ concentration enhancing agent, which acts within as little as 1 hr after administration to mammalian cells to increase NAD+ by 2.5-10 fold over control values. Comparisons to NR and NMN show that in every instance NRH provides greater NAD+ increases at equivalent concentrations...NRH substantially increases NAD+/NADH ratio in cultured cells and in liver, and no induction of apoptotic markers or significant increases in lactate levels in cells.”

 

Discussion of that paper and NRH here: https://www.longecit...ro-and-in-vivo/

[JamesPaul]

Thank you!!

[KBAnthis]

Has anyone tried NAD+ sublingually? I have been trying NMN sublingually and find it interesting but I am on my first day as of writing this. I was considering trying the NAD+ sublingually as it is avilable now but I can not find much information other than little bits here and there and nothing much anctedotal. What are your opinions on well-being after trying NR, NMN, and NAD+ sublingually? Any differences worth mentioning between them you feel are worth sharing? I have noticed on day 1 of NMN that the front of my brain is getting a lot more activity as long as the rest of my brain, my liver feels to be in good health and overall a sense of general well being and a more in depth perception is what I have noticed.

[Joe Garma]

Has anyone tried NAD+ sublingually? I have been trying NMN sublingually and find it interesting but I am on my first day as of writing this. I was considering trying the NAD+ sublingually as it is avilable now but I can not find much information other than little bits here and there and nothing much anctedotal. What are your opinions on well-being after trying NR, NMN, and NAD+ sublingually? Any differences worth mentioning between them you feel are worth sharing? I have noticed on day 1 of NMN that the front of my brain is getting a lot more activity as long as the rest of my brain, my liver feels to be in good health and overall a sense of general well being and a more in depth perception is what I have noticed.

 

There's debate about whether sublingual or acid protected formulations of NMN are necessary for bioavailability to the bloodstream and tissues.

 

I just wrote an article, part of which addresses NMN bioavailability that will soon be published on ProHealthLongevity.com. I relied on a 2019 study that said:

“... absorption of NMN from the gut into blood circulation starts within 2–3 min and within 15 min, it is completely absorbed into tissue. Then it is converted and stored immediately as NAD+ in tissues like liver, skeletal muscle, and cortex. This increase in hepatic [liver] NAD+ content persists for about 30 min. After six months of NMN administration, this spiked concentration of NAD+ can be observed in the liver and brown adipose tissue, however, not in skeletal muscle and white adipose tissue.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6359187/

 

My takeaway from this is that as long as you consistently consume NMN it will get to the bloodstream and tissues.

Edited by Joe Garma, 23 May 2019 - 02:18 AM.

[KBAnthis]

I know I felt a little something different in my brain like it needed more energy. I tried taking some copper 1 niacin powder at about say 4 mg of copper and am now at about say 150 mg maybe of sublingual MagTein powder, it has slowly cleared up any brain fog. I wouldn't say brain fog is the right word but perhaps like a lack of materials needed for a reawakened part of my brain. This is all my perception and really could be pondered upon much more for an in depth analysis. I did take quite a bit , probably 8 grams of OptiMSM throughout the day to combat any excess methylation and a couple of b-complex pills dissolved in water. The MagTein really seems to be clearing away any of the brain fog I have gotten from dosing the NMN all day. I was considering trying the NAD+ powder at around 1mg per kg sublingually each day but wonder if I am better off saving my money and using NMN more. I am glad I have the MagTein, it was fun throughout most of the day and I felt like I was calmer.. It is just at the end of the night now I am craving magnesium and it is giving me an overall sense of well being. How does anyone else combat the brain fog and does anyone else experience something similar? I am not sure how much I have used but at first I tried about 2-300 mg sublingual and then moved on to doing anywhere from 2-50mg sublingually here and there, 

Edit: I have also been taking high dose 30,000 + IU of vitamin d today and high dose k2 (mk-4 , mk-7) in order to battle some long term lifelong deficiencies I have had in these vitamins. I had read in a contact report from Billy Meier , translated into English number 623, That people really need at least 10,000 IU of vitamin d3 a day and sometimes much more for a 85 kg person. This can be had through sun exposure and diet but I am located in the Northern USA. I have been really enjoying taking these vitamins and the day has been well for day 1 of NMN, however I would really be dragging right now in my opinion without the MagTein, Magnesium (TRAACS), and various other supplements I take. I have used about 4-5 times my normal MagTein usage today as I normally only do say at most .5 grams a day sublingually, give or take with stress etc.

Edited by KBAnthis, 23 May 2019 - 03:13 AM.

[KBAnthis]

I was going to edit how irresponsible it is to suggest taking above RDA of anything, specifically the copper 1 niacin and vitamin D and k2, but looks like some folks have flagged the post ahead of me being able to edit again. Well they are correct with this, but the high dose vitamin d3 and k2 to me has been a life saver and everyone must do their own research on this and do not go out and immediately take this dose I have listed , it was just what I took at the time. Also the MagTein seems to be repairing synapses in my brain and that is why I am craving it from what I can gather. Please do your own research before changing anything in your life and do not follow my story as a way to live, but it was just what I was going through at the time, It was a rather dangerous post. Worth noting in my own experience is that the Magtein alone did not take away the slight brain fog I had but the vitamin D3, k2, and magtein. I had just taken some more NMN , probably 50 mg, and had got an immediate headache. After taking a couple grams of Magtein sublingually I noticed it didn't go away until I took some Vitamin D3 and K2, this post now in and of itself has become dangerous but it is what I just went through, Please be advised to consult a doctor before changing anything in your lifestyle, and do your research!

Edited by KBAnthis, 23 May 2019 - 05:40 AM.

[nbourbaki]

Anyone tried the Alive By Nature NAD+ Micromist?

[able]

Anyone tried the Alive By Nature NAD+ Micromist?

 

 

It really clears up the brain fog for my 83 year old father.  He is noticably more coherent and less forgetful.

 

It doesn't seem to do as much for me.  I prefer the NAD+ powder myself.