392 replies to this topic

[bluemoon]

It really clears up the brain fog for my 83 year old father.  He is noticably more coherent and less forgetful.

 

 

It will be nice to have data on this, but it looks like we won't know until next year or the year after since a study has just been completed this month. 

[KBAnthis]

I am on day 3 now of the NMN powder sublingually and am imprssed so far. At the same time though I had ordered some other supplements. Specifically pine bark extract and grape seed extract, cold pressed organic borage seed oil, and an organic apple concentrate that is supposed to be pure rutin. Also while within a couple days adding in 10,000 IU daily of vitamin d3 and about 15 mg of k2 mk-4 and 350 mcg - k2 mk-7. Well my quality of life is so much higher now that I hopefully I do not have to stop taking any of them. I had been taking pine bark before but the combo of grape seed and pine bark is a big difference, in cognition alone improved from the OPCs. Also I just got some trans- resveratrol and had been on  a large break from it. I switched brands to curease from bulk supplements and it is a big quality differnce. I have no affilation and not sure what higher quality if any is avilable out there of pure trans resveratrol. Well anyway I am loving the NMN, and have noticed allready what seems to be an increase in NAD in my whole body and also my brain. I have hestitated on the NAD+ powder and am thinking of trying it. Anyone have any reasons not to , or reasons why to. That is why I originally posted if anyone had an opinion on it compared to NMN sublingually , both NAD+ and NMN sublingually, or if they advise against it for any reason. I started the NMN in hopes of angiogenesis opening up blood vessels to some injuries I hope to heal faster. So far so good. I seem to be healing and have a higher quality of life, but it has only been 3 days. I read on alivebynature to take a couple days of a week from it, I may try 7 days straight though to see what happens, and since David Sinclair has not said he takes a break from it. I can see why people would hesitate though since lack of clinical data. I had been eating mushrooms to prevent angiogenesis to not get any fatter, but now realized maybe I was hindering my healing and have since stopped eating them. 

Edit: I also added Nitrosigine but have not included it everyday. I have been doing some fasting is why.

Edited by KBAnthis, 25 May 2019 - 07:36 PM.

[able]

It will be nice to have data on this, but it looks like we won't know until next year or the year after since a study has just been completed this month. 

 

 

What study is that?  Something on intranasal NAD+ in humans?

 

Or are you talking about NMN?  

[bluemoon]

 

ChromaDex to Assess the Effects of TRU NIAGEN on Cognitive Function, Mood and Sleep in Older Adults

 

Midwest Center for Metabolic and Cardiovascular Research

(participants n=40)

Dose: 300mg, 1,000mg & placebo

 

to be completed May 2019

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Mayo Clinic; University of Minnesota – Clinical and Translational Science Institute; Thorne Research Inc.

(participants n=48)

Dose: 750mg & placebo

 

to be complete June 2020

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Effects of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (NAD) on Brain Function and Cognition

 

The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio; University of Texas; South Texas Veterans Health Care System

(participants n=26)

Dose: 250mg titrated to 1g/day & placebo

 

to be complete December 2020

----------------------------------------------------------------

[able]

Ah, gotcha.   

 

It will certainly be interesting to get the results from the Chromadex study, but I don't know if a study on NR capsules will tell us much about the effect of intranasal NAD+.

 

For instance, this study showed intranasal NAD+ totally protected from brain injury, while injection of the same quantity of NAD+ did not.  (Intranasal Nicotinamide was also ineffective)

 

Prevention of Traumatic Brain Injury-Induced Neuron Death by Intranasal Delivery of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide

 

 Intranasal NAD+ bypasses the Blood brain barrier and restores NAD+, while injection does not. 

 

If  intranasal is  able to reach the brain so much more  than even injection, it seems unlikely NR capsules would compare at all.

 

 

 

[KBAnthis]

Able are you taking the NAD+ sublingually? How does it compare to the NMN sublingual, noticeable difference? I am interested in a nasal spray application of NAD+ and may have to give it a try. 

[able]

Able are you taking the NAD+ sublingually? How does it compare to the NMN sublingual, noticeable difference? I am interested in a nasal spray application of NAD+ and may have to give it a try. 

 

Yes, I take the powder sublingual, and find the NAD+ is much more stimulative for overall energy and positive feelings.  

 

I personally don't get the same rush from the spray that my dad does, but after reading more of the positive effects  it has in research for alzheimers, parkinsons and such, I've decided to add it to my routine as preventative.

[KBAnthis]

Able, how much do you take a day of the NAD+ , I wish there was more information aviable , I would like to heal up some injuries and am considering adding it to days where I nourish after fasting. How much sublingual  powder and nasal sprays have you had success with?

[able]

I've "had success" from taking around 1 gram of sublingual NMN over the last year, with improved strength and endurance.

 

Over the last few months I've switched to NAD+ most of the time, as I find it more stimulative.  I take 250 mg before my coffee, and another 250 mg before I leave the house.

 

I take more NAD+ or NMN before and after my HIIT 3 times a week.

 

I do continue to take NMN occassionaly, so I have no idea if the NAD+ has the same benefits for strength and endurance that I experienced with NMN, but I do like the rush from NAD+ more.

 

 

My dad is the one that had great response from the NAD+ spray - I can't tell much myself.  He tries to take 2-4 blasts several times a day, and goes thru a bottle in about a week.

 

[MikeDC]

NAM is Sirt1 inhibitor

https://www.ncbi.nlm...?i=2&from=sirt1

[WinnieBeeRich]

Newbie waving hello to everyone!  

 

Long before I registered I've been in lurkdom checking LawrenceW's thread. Very helpful and informative indeed. Thanks to LawrenceW and everyone else for sharing his/her experiences. Couldn't wait to join you guys and I also started taking NMN a month ago. The effects? Long story....

 

 

Before taking NMN I've been on resveratrol on and off for 2 years. The effects have largely been positive. But despite the apparant increase in energy and endurance, my joints seemed to age faster than they ought to. I'm not sure if it should be attributed to resveratrol but as Sherlock Holmes said, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable...  

 

 

Since my first day on NMN I cut out all other supplements cold turkey. I can't say NMN has no effect on me but the effects fall far below my expectation. Since I switched to NMN, I began to have difficulty getting up in the morning.(resveratrol kept me energetic all day long. No need for noon naps and woke up naturally in the morning without eye being foggy)

 

 

That said I still have faith in NMN. But I need advice on what other supplements should I take along with NMN? I vaguely remember Dr. Sinclair once said for those who work out regularly, activators are not needed. But any suggestions for sedentary(AND BUSY) people? To make it worse, my joint problem doesn't allow me to do physical exercises...

 

 

Can I have resveratrol together with NMN? I heard that resveratrol is sort of in conflict with NMN in human body. But to what extent? If the extent of the "confliction" is tolerable or, neglectable, I'd love to come back to resveratrol because, despite the joint problem it caused me, resveratrol by far  did me more good than any other supplement.

 

Edited by WinnieBeeRich, 24 September 2019 - 03:14 PM.

[Oakman]

 

Newbie waving hello to everyone!

...

 

Can I have resveratrol together with NMN? I heard that resveratrol is sort of in conflict with NMN in human body. But to what extent? If the extent of the "confliction" is tolerable or, neglectable, I'd love to come back to resveratrol because, despite the joint problem it caused me, resveratrol by far  did me more good than any other supplement.

 

 

You need to watch this interview with David Sinclair. He tells that he sees real benefit in Resveratrol, and takes a gram of it with NMN, for example.

 

https://www.longecit...tube-interview/

[WinnieBeeRich]

You need to watch this interview with David Sinclair. He tells that he sees real benefit in Resveratrol, and takes a gram of it with NMN, for example.

 

https://www.longecit...tube-interview/

Many thanks, Oakman. But youtube is blocked in my country. What did Sinclair say ? Main points?

[WinnieBeeRich]

From what I read about resveratrol, it is more controversial than any NAD+ supplements like NR or NMN.   And I  guess most LCitizens approve it with a grain of salt. myself included. During the 2 years I took resveratrol I'm in constant fear for  renal failure. Lucky enough, nothing happened so far. My joint problem worsened though. Even so, I still like resveratrol. It had some wonderful wonderful effects on me. My only fear is that when taken together, the effects of resveratrol and NMN might offset each other. Might they?

 

According to LC post, Sinclair said his bio age fastened to 58 yr old after taking 1000mg resveratrol.  That was frustrating. But some of my relatives and neighbors are on resveratrol and the effects have been amazing. One of our long-time neighbors had severe liver problems and resveratrol saved him from the brink of liver transplantation. Do I sound like a scammer? I'm not.    

 

Hope I'm not hijacking the topic.   I just need advice. If resveratrol is out of the question, other suggestions are welcomed. 

 

Edited by WinnieBeeRich, 24 September 2019 - 04:26 PM.

[Oakman]

Many thanks, Oakman. But youtube is blocked in my country. What did Sinclair say ? Main points?

 

Holly Cow! It is one info dense videos interviews I've seen from him and 50 minutes long. He said a lot.

 

You can't get YouTube?! Not having it is unimaginable. I feel for you.

 

Action items from Sinclair...

 

...take Resveratrol, NMN daily, and Metformin (on off exercise days). Get cold/hot on occasion, i.e., don't always stay warm. Eat less than you want often, several times weekly at least. Get blood tests and monitor yourself.

 

Unfortunately the whole interview is close to 8500 words, so the above is a gross abbreviation bordering on the absurd. Maybe that helped a bit?

[WinnieBeeRich]

Holly Cow! It is one info dense videos interviews I've seen from him and 50 minutes long. He said a lot.

 

You can't get YouTube?! Not having it is unimaginable. I feel for you.

 

Action items from Sinclair...

 

...take Resveratrol, NMN daily, and Metformin (on off exercise days). Get cold/hot on occasion, i.e., don't always stay warm. Eat less than you want often, several times weekly at least. Get blood tests and monitor yourself.

 

Unfortunately the whole interview is close to 8500 words, so the above is a gross abbreviation bordering on the absurd. Maybe that helped a bit?

Thanks oakman. I'll have someone outside China download the video for me.

[Joe Garma]

Hey everyone, I purposely have been writing articles on this NAD+ precursor topic, especially given the release of Dr. David Sinclair's new book, Lifespan. Suggest you click over and give them a scan, as they answer many of the questions asked here:

 

Anti-aging Researcher Dr. David Sinclair Tells Joe Rogan About His Groundbreaking NMN Supplement Research

 

 

How Dr. David Sinclair May Extend Your Health and Lifespan

 

 

Can NAD+ Precursors NR and NMN Make You Young Again?

Edited by Joe Garma, 25 September 2019 - 03:24 AM.

[MikeDC]

Both Sinclair and Brenner are authors of this NAM study.
Lifelong use of NAM does not increase lifespan. Lifelong use of NAM does not increase tissue NAD+. So there is a negative feedback loop with NAM supplementation through the down regulation of NAMPT. Since both NR and NMN have low bioavailability and most are degraded to NAM before reaching liver, this negative feedback loop will occur.
I think it is a good idea to alternate NR/NMN/NAM with Niacin.
2-3 months NR/NMN and 1 month Niacin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...#__ffn_sectitle

[Mind]

A new possible method to upregulate cellular NAD+. In the podcast.

[Vastmandana]

Deleted

Edited by Vastmandana, 04 October 2019 - 11:37 PM.

[MikeDC]

I want to draw your attention to a new thread on NRH.

[Smith]

NAM is Sirt1 inhibitor

https://www.ncbi.nlm...?i=2&from=sirt1

 

Maybe not, it appears NAM could activate Sirt1:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28417163

[Smith]

Both Sinclair and Brenner are authors of this NAM study.
Lifelong use of NAM does not increase lifespan. Lifelong use of NAM does not increase tissue NAD+. So there is a negative feedback loop with NAM supplementation through the down regulation of NAMPT. Since both NR and NMN have low bioavailability and most are degraded to NAM before reaching liver, this negative feedback loop will occur.
I think it is a good idea to alternate NR/NMN/NAM with Niacin.
2-3 months NR/NMN and 1 month Niacin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...#__ffn_sectitle

 

This is very interesting.  This NAM study did show an improvement in healthspan with NAM.

Also, the recent German Risk/Benefit analysis showed that NAM supplementation did clinically boost NAD+ levels.

 

So what is going on?  Could it be long-term supplementation with NAD+ precursors are ineffective due to homeostasis effects?

 

Would cycling NAM / NR / NMN be advised?

[LawrenceW]

 

 

So what is going on?  Could it be long-term supplementation with NAD+ precursors are ineffective due to homeostasis effects?

 

Yes, if you supplement with only NMN or NR. You definitely need to add in other supplements to maintain the efficacy of NAD+ precursors over the long term.

Edited by LawrenceW, 10 November 2019 - 08:07 PM.

[Fredrik]

Lawrence,

Why do you believe that the effects of NMN/NR supplementation diminishes over time?

In the mice studies that doesn't happen. What published evidence do you have besides your groups feelings and convictions?

[LawrenceW]

Lawrence,\o

Why do you believe that the effects of NMN/NR supplementation diminishes over time?

In the mice studies that doesn't happen. What published evidence do you have besides your groups feelings and convictions?

 

 

Hello Fredrik.

 

This is the link to the published evidence that the effects of NR supplementation diminish over time.

 

https://www.nature.c...-017-0016-9.pdf

 

And, our groups "feelings and convictions" are based on rigorous blood testing results. For example, back in 2014 when our lead guinea pig started experimenting with NMN we were very concerned with detecting objective biomarker outcomes.  We believed that testing for inflammation was very important, so we added Tumor Necrosis Factor alpha and Interleukin-6 to the standard C-Reactive Protein inflammation test.  This study, https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4634197/ , found that there is a direct correlation between elevated inflammation and all cause mortality.

 

In our blood testing we found that the inflammation biomarkers were decreased to their lowest levels at month 1 and month 2.  They were slightly increased at month 3 and had given back roughly 75% of their initial decrease by month 6.  We found that by activating some of the other anti-aging pathways that we decreased the inflammation biomarker levels to even lower levels and have maintained those lower levels over the past 4 years. I am confident that in the coming years, a PhD with way more credibility than myself, will publish a paper officially verifying what we have known and experienced for the past 4 years.

Edited by LawrenceW, 11 November 2019 - 05:22 PM.

[Fredrik]

Where in that study do you find that the raised NAD+ levels go back to baseline?

The NR never stopped working, according to the paper you posted.

Rather the effect is SUSTAINED, even if levels of NAD+ reach a lower equilibrium it never goes back to baseline:

"In summary, we have conducted the first placebo-controlled, randomized and double-blind human trial on NRPT and found that it is well tolerated and significantly raises NAD+ levels in circulating blood in a sustained way.".

Since your group never publish anything in any peer-reviewed journals it's just to be viewed as online noise and hearsay.

Edited by Fredrik, 11 November 2019 - 06:44 PM.

[LawrenceW]

Where in that study do you find that the raised NAD+ levels go back to baseline?
 

 

Pages 3 and 4 

 

250 mg dose had about a 40% increase in NAD+ at both months 1 and 2

 

500 mg dose had about a 90% increase in NAD+ at month 1 and dropped to a 55% increase by month 2.

 

We have no idea as to what the levels looked like after month 2.

 

Never said anything about levels returning to baseline.

Edited by LawrenceW, 11 November 2019 - 06:57 PM.

[Fredrik]

Pages 3 and 4 

 

250 mg dose had about a 40% increase in NAD+ at both months 1 and 2

 

500 mg dose had about a 90% increase in NAD+ at month 1 and dropped to a 55% increase by month 2.

 

We have no idea as to what the levels looked like after month 2.

 

Never said anything about levels returning to baseline.

 

Exactly. So you have no proof that NR or NMN lose all their effect on NAD-levels with time? The levels can stay higher than baseline indefinitely as long as supplementation is ongoing, right?

 

So there´s no proof your patented "special sauce" is needed along with NMN. But I understand you want to push your special sauce because of financial gain. 

Edited by Fredrik, 11 November 2019 - 07:30 PM.

[Fredrik]

Yes, if you supplement with only NMN or NR. You definitely need to add in other supplements to maintain the efficacy of NAD+ precursors over the long term.

 

You have provided ZERO proof to support this statement.

 

What "other supplements"?

 

Where are the animal or human data showing that other supplements are needed to maintain NAD-levels when using NAD-precursors?

Edited by Fredrik, 11 November 2019 - 08:11 PM.