392 replies to this topic

[able]

I think my explanation in another thread made the most sense why NMN generated more NAD+ in the kidney while NR generates more NAD+ in all other tissues. We know that Ling Liu’s Dissertation shows that NMN disappears from blood quickly even after IV supplementation. NMN is much less bioavailable than NR in the blood. The proposed reason for this is NMN is stuck in the kidney tissue when blood is filtered at kidney. This concentrated NMN generated more NAD+ in the kidney. This doesn’t mean NMN can get into cells without converting to NR first in kidney cells. Sinclair’s mention of NMN and NR behave differently in different cells is just pumping NMN without any solid evidence. So far there is no data that shows NMN can get into cells while all data shows NR can get into all cells tested. NAD+ can actually get into cells without converting to NR first. The discussion of NR and NMN supplementation starts at page 32.

 

  https://dataspace.pr...0181D_12390.pdf

 

Another issue with NMN is not all NMN are converted to NR, a lot of NMN are metablized and flushed out in the urine.

 

 

Liu's dissertation showed most (or all?) NR and NMN converted to NAM - which is just confirming what ALL other studies said.  You said it was garbage.

 

Then, you quote the part of Liu's dissertation that says NMN is not found in bloodstream - which is the OPPOSITE of  all other studies. 

 

Then you make up something about NMN is flushed out in urine.  You have said that several times as if it was fact and never answer when I ask where you got that idea from.

 

You are saying things you know are not true or confirmed.  

 

That is not just cherry picking data - it is flat out purposeful deception.  

Edited by able, 02 April 2018 - 06:24 PM.

[MikeDC]

I think my explanation in another thread made the most sense why NMN generated more NAD+ in the kidney while NR generates more NAD+ in all other tissues. We know that Ling Liu’s Dissertation shows that NMN disappears from blood quickly even after IV supplementation. NMN is much less bioavailable than NR in the blood. The proposed reason for this is NMN is stuck in the kidney tissue when blood is filtered at kidney. This concentrated NMN generated more NAD+ in the kidney. This doesn’t mean NMN can get into cells without converting to NR first in kidney cells. Sinclair’s mention of NMN and NR behave differently in different cells is just pumping NMN without any solid evidence. So far there is no data that shows NMN can get into cells while all data shows NR can get into all cells tested. NAD+ can actually get into cells without converting to NR first. The discussion of NR and NMN supplementation starts at page 32.

https://dataspace.pr...0181D_12390.pdf

Another issue with NMN is not all NMN are converted to NR, a lot of NMN are metablized and flushed out in the urine.

Liu's dissertation showed most (or all?) NR and NMN converted to NAM - which is just confirming what ALL other studies said. You said it was garbage.

Then, you quote the part of Liu's dissertation that says NMN is not found in bloodstream - which is the OPPOSITE of all other studies.

Then you make up something about NMN is flushed out in urine. You have said that several times as if it was fact and never answer when I ask where you got that idea from.

You are saying things you know are not true or confirmed.

That is not just cherry picking data - it is flat out purposeful deception.

Show me where I said Ling Liu’s Dissertation is garbage? Her research is the most up to date on NR and NMN up to 135 minutes time frame. There is no data on NMN beyond 135 minutes.

[able]

Ok, you didn't say garbage - just that it was wrong - in post #9 http://www.longecity...he-best-to-get/

 

Still no reference for your claim that most NMN is flushed out in Urine?

 

Or reason why you choose to declare NMN is not found in bloodstream when you KNOW that contradicts other research.

 

And ignore that all other studies find NR is not stable or found in blood except at trace levels?

 

Edited by able, 02 April 2018 - 06:56 PM.

[MikeDC]

Ok, you didn't say garbage - just that it was wrong - in post #9 http://www.longecity...he-best-to-get/

 

Still no reference for your claim that most NMN is flushed out in Urine?

 

Or reason why you choose to declare NMN is not found in bloodstream when you KNOW that contradicts other research.

 

And ignore that all other studies find NR is not stable or found in blood except at trace levels?

 

You are playing tricks of mind. #9 didn't mention Ling Liu's dissertation at all.

[able]

Still no reference for your claim that most NMN is flushed out in Urine?

 

Or reason why you choose to declare NMN is not found in bloodstream when you KNOW that contradicts other research.

 

And ignore that all other studies find NR is not stable or found in blood except at trace levels?

[MikeDC]

I said a lot, not most of them. This study showed over 40% of NMN+NAM were secreted in the Urine alone.

14% were secreted in the first 3 hours. This doesn't include all the NMN that has been further metabolized beyond NAM.

 

https://www.jstage.j...2/_pdf/-char/en

 

 

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Edited by MikeDC, 02 April 2018 - 07:52 PM.

[Forever21]

Someone please link the NR group buy. Thanks.

[MikeDC]

Someone please link the NR group buy. Thanks.

No more group buy. Buy from amazon. 3 bottle of Tru Niagen is about $35 per bottle. 12 bottles is about $32 per bottle.

[able]

I said a lot, not most of them. This study showed over 40% of NMN+NAM were secreted in the Urine alone.

14% were secreted in the first 3 hours. This doesn't include all the NMN that has been further metabolized beyond NAM.

 

https://www.jstage.j...2/_pdf/-char/en

 

 

You said:

 

"Another issue with NMN is not all NMN are converted to NR, a lot of NMN are metablized and flushed out in the urine."

 

in the conversation where you were pointing to reasons NR is superior to NMN.

 

Yet your source for this is:

 

b-Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an Anti-Aging Candidate Compound, Is Retained in the Body for Longer

than Nicotinamide in Rats 

A study that has absolutely nothing about NR.  

So  once again, you just make up some reason NR is better than NMN, with absolutely no justification at all.

[MikeDC]

I said a lot, not most of them. This study showed over 40% of NMN+NAM were secreted in the Urine alone.
14% were secreted in the first 3 hours. This doesn't include all the NMN that has been further metabolized beyond NAM.

https://www.jstage.j...2/_pdf/-char/en

You said:

"Another issue with NMN is not all NMN are converted to NR, a lot of NMN are metablized and flushed out in the urine."

in the conversation where you were pointing to reasons NR is superior to NMN.

Yet your source for this is:

b-Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an Anti-Aging Candidate Compound, Is Retained in the Body for Longer
than Nicotinamide in Rats
A study that has absolutely nothing about NR.
So once again, you just make up some reason NR is better than NMN, with absolutely no justification at all.

You have to be brain dead to still think NMN is as good as NR. I am done talking to you

Someone please link the NR group buy. Thanks.

No more group buy. Buy from amazon. 3 bottle of Tru Niagen is about $35 per bottle. 12 bottles is about $32 per bottle.

Just found out Truniagen.com has 12 months subscription for $30 per bottle.

[able]

 

 

I said a lot, not most of them. This study showed over 40% of NMN+NAM were secreted in the Urine alone.
14% were secreted in the first 3 hours. This doesn't include all the NMN that has been further metabolized beyond NAM.

https://www.jstage.j...2/_pdf/-char/en

You said:

"Another issue with NMN is not all NMN are converted to NR, a lot of NMN are metablized and flushed out in the urine."

in the conversation where you were pointing to reasons NR is superior to NMN.

Yet your source for this is:

b-Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, an Anti-Aging Candidate Compound, Is Retained in the Body for Longer
than Nicotinamide in Rats
A study that has absolutely nothing about NR.
So once again, you just make up some reason NR is better than NMN, with absolutely no justification at all.

You have to be brain dead to still think NMN is as good as NR. I am done talking to you 

 

 

 

 

You're right.  There is clearly no reason to consider NMN.  Dr Sinclair and hundreds of other brilliant researchers are wasting their time.   You should tell them.

[Forever21]

Jesus, this guy is getting so much dislikes.

 

Is it the supplement (Niagen) or the guy (MikeDC) that you guys disagree with?

 

 

If it's the guy, are you on NR Niagen as well?

 

If it's the supplement you're against, what are you using? NMN? 

 

 

 

Just found out Truniagen.com has 12 months subscription for $30 per bottle.

 

 

[able]

Like almost everyone here, I am a big NR fan.

 

I have come to question some of the claims about Niagen, and am investigating NMN as it seems to show more dramatic results in some studies.  Perhaps Dr Sinclair is just better at presenting the results - I don't know, but would like to discuss and understand more.

 

Personally, I believe we will likely find both have benefits and may be useful in combination, but there is much to learn.

 

MikeDc is a very vocal Chromadex shareholder (username mike) who gets overly "enthusiastic" in blasting any threat to his stock price.  

 

He has been banned several times from this forum for being a nuisance, but for some reason the mods keep letting him come back and disrupt any conversation.

 

After numerous predictions that  Chromadex  would be $100 to  $1000 soon, we see it is down from $7 last month to under $4 today, so he is desperate.

 

Edited by able, 03 April 2018 - 02:08 AM.

[MikeDC]

Jesus, this guy is getting so much dislikes.

Is it the supplement (Niagen) or the guy (MikeDC) that you guys disagree with?


If it's the guy, are you on NR Niagen as well?

If it's the supplement you're against, what are you using? NMN?

Just found out Truniagen.com has 12 months subscription for $30 per bottle.

Just some fools who think they are smarter than everyone else. It is getting clearer everyday who is right.

[TMNMK]

I take Tru Niagen. Loads of it. In an entirely unconventional way for some time now that I will not get into here and won't discuss openly probably for several years as I am patient zero (insofar as I am aware) with this method and I would be grossly negligent were something to happen to others as a result.

 

I don't think you could find a larger NR proponent than myself, MikeDC included, based on what I've personally experienced. That being said, I take NMN too (oral & sublingual) because they are not presently contraindicated and I don't see a mechanism by which they would be. And as I've said once before, I'm not yet convinced that CD73 conversion to NR followed by equilibrative nucleoside transport is the only mechanism by which NMN may enter some types of cells. It may turn out to be the primary mechanism for the majority of cell lines, but I'm not convinced it is the only mechanism for all cells. Additionally I would like to see more research on tissue distribution as I have a suspicion that being rate limited so-to-speak by CD73 just might turn out to be a good thing in the end. We just don't know yet and I both invite and look forward to more research in these areas and others. We live in exciting times!

 

Look, I don't go around blowing up anything that threatens NR. I don't really care, worst come to worst I'll just make it myself although I would really love to avoid all of that trouble down the road, so my only hope is that it continues to be sold and I don't see that ever changing.

 

Let the debate rage, for certainly if you aren't arguing about something then you are not thinking deeply enough about it. But please remove your amygdala from the equation, calling people fools is something only a fool does. 

Edited by TMNMK, 03 April 2018 - 01:49 PM.

[Forever21]

Okay I got my bottle from Niagen.

 

It says 2 caps daily.

 

Is that in separate dose or one time take 2 capsule?

 

Empty stomach or with food?

[stefan_001]

I take Tru Niagen. Loads of it. In an entirely unconventional way for some time now that I will not get into here and won't discuss openly probably for several years as I am patient zero (insofar as I am aware) with this method and I would be grossly negligent were something to happen to others as a result.

 

I don't think you could find a larger NR proponent than myself, MikeDC included, based on what I've personally experienced. That being said, I take NMN too (oral & sublingual) because they are not presently contraindicated and I don't see a mechanism by which they would be. And as I've said once before, I'm not yet convinced that CD73 conversion to NR followed by equilibrative nucleoside transport is the only mechanism by which NMN may enter some types of cells. It may turn out to be the primary mechanism for the majority of cell lines, but I'm not convinced it is the only mechanism for all cells. Additionally I would like to see more research on tissue distribution as I have a suspicion that being rate limited so-to-speak by CD73 just might turn out to be a good thing in the end. We just don't know yet and I both invite and look forward to more research in these areas and others. We live in exciting times!

 

Look, I don't go around blowing up anything that threatens NR. I don't really care, worst come to worst I'll just make it myself although I would really love to avoid all of that trouble down the road, so my only hope is that it continues to be sold and I don't see that ever changing.

 

Let the debate rage, for certainly if you aren't arguing about something then you are not thinking deeply enough about it. But please remove your amygdala from the equation, calling people fools is something only a fool does. 

 

Wrt your patient zero activities, could you share your motivation? Personally I have started to use it sublingual in order to get more NR circulating - subjectively I have a feeling that helps. I would try various other methods (except) injecting if I could get rid of the filler.

 

I tend to agree on the NMN topic that there is no research that excludes that excludes a direct path in all cell lines with certainty. Having said that if you look at the NRK 1 and NRK 2 expresion atlas then you see more or less all tissues express one of those two or even both which kind of negates the need for a direct cells entry mechanism for NMN (as the cells can do the NR->NMN conversion). For CD73 "rate limiting is good" are you thinking of a cancer link?

Edited by stefan_001, 03 April 2018 - 08:15 PM.

[MikeDC]

I take Tru Niagen. Loads of it. In an entirely unconventional way for some time now that I will not get into here and won't discuss openly probably for several years as I am patient zero (insofar as I am aware) with this method and I would be grossly negligent were something to happen to others as a result.

I don't think you could find a larger NR proponent than myself, MikeDC included, based on what I've personally experienced. That being said, I take NMN too (oral & sublingual) because they are not presently contraindicated and I don't see a mechanism by which they would be. And as I've said once before, I'm not yet convinced that CD73 conversion to NR followed by equilibrative nucleoside transport is the only mechanism by which NMN may enter some types of cells. It may turn out to be the primary mechanism for the majority of cell lines, but I'm not convinced it is the only mechanism for all cells. Additionally I would like to see more research on tissue distribution as I have a suspicion that being rate limited so-to-speak by CD73 just might turn out to be a good thing in the end. We just don't know yet and I both invite and look forward to more research in these areas and others. We live in exciting times!

Look, I don't go around blowing up anything that threatens NR. I don't really care, worst come to worst I'll just make it myself although I would really love to avoid all of that trouble down the road, so my only hope is that it continues to be sold and I don't see that ever changing.

Let the debate rage, for certainly if you aren't arguing about something then you are not thinking deeply enough about it. But please remove your amygdala from the equation, calling people fools is something only a fool does.

Wrt your patient zero activities, could you share your motivation? Personally I have started to use it sublingual in order to get more NR circulating - subjectively I have a feeling that helps. I would try various other methods (except) injecting if I could get rid of the filler.

I tend to agree on the NMN topic that there is no research that excludes that excludes a direct path in all cell lines with certainty. Having said that if you look at the NRK 1 and NRK 2 expresion atlas then you see more or less all tissues express one of those two or even both which kind of negates the need for a direct cells entry mechanism for NMN (as the cells can do the NR->NMN conversion). For CD73 "rate limiting is good" are you thinking of a cancer link?

Let’s just say that for the cell types Brenner has tested, NMN is not effective if NRK1 and NrK2 are KO.

Okay I got my bottle from Niagen.

It says 2 caps daily.

Is that in separate dose or one time take 2 capsule?

Empty stomach or with food?

One time and empty stomach

[TMNMK]

 

I take Tru Niagen. Loads of it. In an entirely unconventional way for some time now that I will not get into here and won't discuss openly probably for several years as I am patient zero (insofar as I am aware) with this method and I would be grossly negligent were something to happen to others as a result.

 

I don't think you could find a larger NR proponent than myself, MikeDC included, based on what I've personally experienced. That being said, I take NMN too (oral & sublingual) because they are not presently contraindicated and I don't see a mechanism by which they would be. And as I've said once before, I'm not yet convinced that CD73 conversion to NR followed by equilibrative nucleoside transport is the only mechanism by which NMN may enter some types of cells. It may turn out to be the primary mechanism for the majority of cell lines, but I'm not convinced it is the only mechanism for all cells. Additionally I would like to see more research on tissue distribution as I have a suspicion that being rate limited so-to-speak by CD73 just might turn out to be a good thing in the end. We just don't know yet and I both invite and look forward to more research in these areas and others. We live in exciting times!

 

Look, I don't go around blowing up anything that threatens NR. I don't really care, worst come to worst I'll just make it myself although I would really love to avoid all of that trouble down the road, so my only hope is that it continues to be sold and I don't see that ever changing.

 

Let the debate rage, for certainly if you aren't arguing about something then you are not thinking deeply enough about it. But please remove your amygdala from the equation, calling people fools is something only a fool does. 

 

Wrt your patient zero activities, could you share your motivation? Personally I have started to use it sublingual in order to get more NR circulating - subjectively I have a feeling that helps. I would try various other methods (except) injecting if I could get rid of the filler.

 

I tend to agree on the NMN topic that there is no research that excludes that excludes a direct path in all cell lines with certainty. Having said that if you look at the NRK 1 and NRK 2 expresion atlas then you see more or less all tissues express one of those two or even both which kind of negates the need for a direct cells entry mechanism for NMN (as the cells can do the NR->NMN conversion). For CD73 "rate limiting is good" are you thinking of a cancer link?

 

 

My motivation is very similar to yours but also focused on some information regarding stem cells and some studies from circa mid-late 2017 that wasn't specific to NAD precursors. I did do sublingual for a long time and had the same subjective feeling that you have. I think it helped but I would often feel some degree of lethargy in the afternoons and evenings. That's at between 1g and 2g typically per day, throughout the day. I still typically take 250mg in the morning sublingual along with NMN + excipient in order to potentially reach different areas just as you are thinking and I figure some if not most of it becomes oral simply due to dissolution and inadvertent swallowing. The new method does not have this issue whatsoever, it can be somewhat of a rush in fact. I do have to separate the excipient by taking advantage of differences in solubility. Somewhat cumbersome but in a year or two I'll discuss it if I'm not dead and still able to type regardless of outcome I feel that science suffers from a lack of reporting of non-significant findings. For rate limiting, I was thinking that CD73 may allow some NMN to pass by further to down-stream cells/organs/tissues, I wasn't thinking of a cancer link.

Edited by TMNMK, 03 April 2018 - 10:05 PM.

[stefan_001]

My motivation is very similar to yours but also focused on some information regarding stem cells and some studies from circa mid-late 2017 that wasn't specific to NAD precursors. I did do sublingual for a long time and had the same subjective feeling that you have. I think it helped but I would often feel some degree of lethargy in the afternoons and evenings. That's at between 1g and 2g typically per day, throughout the day. I still typically take 250mg in the morning sublingual along with NMN + excipient in order to potentially reach different areas just as you are thinking and I figure some if not most of it becomes oral simply due to dissolution and inadvertent swallowing. The new method does not have this issue whatsoever, it can be somewhat of a rush in fact. I do have to separate the excipient by taking advantage of differences in solubility. Somewhat cumbersome but in a year or two I'll discuss it if I'm not dead and still able to type regardless of outcome I feel that science suffers from a lack of reporting of non-significant findings. For rate limiting, I was thinking that CD73 may allow some NMN to pass by further to down-stream cells/organs/tissues, I wasn't thinking of a cancer link.

 

OK got it on the CD73. I read some papers that CD73 is a target for inhibition in certain cancers hence the question. Ok dont kill yourself with alternative admin routes. Having said that with pure NR I can imagine some other testable routes....

[Harkijn]

One time and empty stomach

 

Do you take NR on an empty stomach because that feels best? Or did I miss research info about this?

[MikeDC]

Do you take NR on an empty stomach because that feels best? Or did I miss research info about this?

That is what ChromaDex recommends. The Ling LIU dissertation showed some absorption occurre quickly. Circulating NR peaked at 15 minutes. So some NR are absorbed in the stomach. An empty stomach should help absorption.

Edited by MikeDC, 05 April 2018 - 05:30 PM.

[TMNMK]

Someone privately asked me about my new method of administration. I can't share that yet unfortunately but I am happy to share a different route of administration that I don't think has been previously mentioned and should be relatively easy to do at home without any fancy lab equipment and almost zero lab technique. I don't think this method is terribly dangerous, but feel free to disagree. I'm happy to hear if people see any risks with the following.

 

NOTE: I would advise those just starting out with NR to get a feel for it orally before trying this, such as potentially OP.

 

Solubilized intranasal solution as follows:

 

1. Buy a nasal sprayer such as https://www.amazon.c...L70_&dpSrc=srch

 

2. Every day in the morning open up 10 of the gelcaps (or whatever you are comfortable with), pour the contents in a small cup (plastic, clear solo works great).

 

3. Dribble about 15ml of cold water over the powder

 

4. Swirl and dissolve well. The microcrystalline cellulose should remain mostly undissolved as a white solid that settles on standing under a brownish yellow liquid (be sure the pills that you use, such as Tru Niagen and I think HPN's gelcap-based version have only microcrystalline cellulose as excipient as things like (hydroxypropyl)methyl cellulose and fructooligosaccharides are water soluble).

 

5. Allow to settle and decant the liquid through a fluted, wetted coffee filter. Squeeze the excipient with a downward motion between thumb and forefinger in the filter paper without breaking the filter paper as microcrystalline cellulose absorbs much water and along with it, much NR.

 

6. Put the liquid into the nasal sprayer. I used to use the white thing in this photo to suck it up and then put it into the nasal sprayer: https://www.cvs.com/...50428251591.jpg

 

7. Shoot two to three squirts up both nostrils every 15-20 minutes or so!

 

Keep that chilled! You cannot let that sit around at room temperature all day. Buried in a deep cup of ice is fine. It goes without saying, but use distilled water.

 

That is a method that I do think works reasonably well but I have not had the courage to dissect myself to confirm.

 

Maybe this post belongs elsewhere - Mod feel free to move if you know of a better place to put it.

Edited by TMNMK, 05 April 2018 - 06:30 PM.

[stefan_001]

 

Someone privately asked me about my new method of administration. I can't share that yet unfortunately but I am happy to share a different route of administration that I don't think has been previously mentioned and should be relatively easy to do at home without any fancy lab equipment and almost zero lab technique. I don't think this method is terribly dangerous, but feel free to disagree. I'm happy to hear if people see any risks with the following.

 

NOTE: I would advise those just starting out with NR to get a feel for it orally before trying this, such as potentially OP.

 

Solubilized intranasal solution as follows:

 

1. Buy a nasal sprayer such as https://www.amazon.c...L70_&dpSrc=srch

 

2. Every day in the morning open up 10 of the gelcaps (or whatever you are comfortable with), pour the contents in a small cup (plastic, clear solo works great).

 

3. Dribble about 15ml of cold water over the powder

 

4. Swirl and dissolve well. The microcrystalline cellulose should remain mostly undissolved as a white solid that settles on standing under a brownish yellow liquid (be sure the pills that you use, such as Tru Niagen and I think HPN's gelcap-based version have only microcrystalline cellulose as excipient as things like (hydroxypropyl)methyl cellulose and fructooligosaccharides are water soluble).

 

5. Allow to settle and decant the liquid through a fluted, wetted coffee filter. Squeeze the excipient with a downward motion between thumb and forefinger in the filter paper without breaking the filter paper as microcrystalline cellulose absorbs much water and along with it, much NR.

 

6. Put the liquid into the nasal sprayer. I used to use the white thing in this photo to suck it up and then put it into the nasal sprayer: https://www.cvs.com/...50428251591.jpg

 

7. Shoot two to three squirts up both nostrils every 15-20 minutes or so!

 

Keep that chilled! You cannot let that sit around at room temperature all day. Buried in a deep cup of ice is fine. It goes without saying, but use distilled water.

 

That is a method that I do think works reasonably well but I have not had the courage to dissect myself to confirm.

 

Maybe this post belongs elsewhere - Mod feel free to move if you know of a better place to put it.

 

Thanks! I had not realized that the microcrystalline settles. Some questions if I may ask:

- have you considered using the remaining liquid as eyedrops?

- would the remaining liquid be suitable for sublingual in term of efficiency versus intranasal?

 

[TMNMK]

Thanks! I had not realized that the microcrystalline settles. Some questions if I may ask:

- have you considered using the remaining liquid as eyedrops?

- would the remaining liquid be suitable for sublingual in term of efficiency versus intranasal?

 

 

I have, funny you should mention. I can't tell if it works as eye drops or not, but I can tell you this: nighttime driving used to be all diamonds and rubies. Now I can drive at night with no problem. I haven't done it as eyedrops in a long time, but yes I had done that previously - about 7 months ago for about 2 months perhaps in total duration. I think it helped but this is all anecdotal of course, could have just been a result of oral or sublingual or any other type of administration, but one could reason that it was a result of eyedrop formulation (I dropped it into the corners of my eyes every day for those two months in the morning using that white thing I posted).

 

I'm not sure about the liquid being suitable for sublingual, but I have done it that way too, I think its ok but not sure. Problem is that NR being so polar is not lipophilic. Considerations might be what kinds of things allow it to adhere better to surfaces or ways to permeate membranes (menthol perhaps according to one paper - sorry don't have reference on-hand, will edit if I find).

[TMNMK]

Oh and one bonus about this method.... think about the hypothalamus and its location.... some food for thought - a lot more where this came from: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4567259/

And then think about this: https://www.nature.c...les/nature23282

Edited by TMNMK, 05 April 2018 - 07:10 PM.

[stefan_001]

I have, funny you should mention. I can't tell if it works as eye drops or not, but I can tell you this: nighttime driving used to be all diamonds and rubies. Now I can drive at night with no problem. I haven't done it as eyedrops in a long time, but yes I had done that previously - about 7 months ago for about 2 months perhaps in total duration. I think it helped but this is all anecdotal of course, could have just been a result of oral or sublingual or any other type of administration, but one could reason that it was a result of eyedrop formulation (I dropped it into the corners of my eyes every day for those two months in the morning using that white thing I posted).

 

I'm not sure about the liquid being suitable for sublingual, but I have done it that way too, I think its ok but not sure. Problem is that NR being so polar is not lipophilic. Considerations might be what kinds of things allow it to adhere better to surfaces or ways to permeate membranes (menthol perhaps according to one paper - sorry don't have reference on-hand, will edit if I find).

 

Okay I going to do some experimenting and bump up the eyedrops experiment to n=2. My eyes have improved with NR but they not yet as in the old days. So if the NR eyedrops help I think I will notice. Yes I thought of the effect on the hypothalamus, will try that out as well but first eyedrops in order to have a perception of the effect of that
 

Edited by stefan_001, 05 April 2018 - 07:48 PM.

[TMNMK]

Okay I going to do some experimenting and bump up the eyedrops experiment to n=2. My eyes have improved with NR but they not yet as in the old days. So if the NR eyedrops help I think I will notice. Yes I thought of the effect on the hypothalamus, will try that out as well but first eyedrops in order to have a perception of the effect of that
 

 

By all means do the eyes, save the cake for last you do that intranasal just right and trust me you will never doubt NR's power. It's quite a feeling! Can't wait to hear your experience. Maybe it's just me but I certainly hope not.

Edited by TMNMK, 05 April 2018 - 10:20 PM.

[John250]

Would one conclude to get the most out of every cell absorption it would be best to take both NR and NMH if oral administration is your preferred choice?

[MikeDC]

Would one conclude to get the most out of every cell absorption it would be best to take both NR and NMH if oral administration is your preferred choice?

In General NR is better at generating NAD+ In all cell types, But NMN generates more NAD+ in kidney from mice studies up to 135min after taking NR or NMN. How NMN compares with NR after that we don’t have data. We also don’t have clinical trials data on NMN yet.

Edited by MikeDC, 09 April 2018 - 05:47 PM.