176 replies to this topic

[cjacek]

Update to my earlier post and a little bit of good news. Just got word from ABN with regard to the 3 jar discount deal for the NMN pure powder, email quote in part: 

 

We had a surge of orders due to the recent Joe Rogan podcast with Dr. David Sinclair.

 

Our pharmaceutical facility is almost finished with the new production and once it's back in stock on February 14th, the 3-pack offering will be available again.

 

I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

I would recommend waiting to order until the 20% off 3-pack deal is back in stock.

 

 

[mindbender]

How do you take it CJACEK? Powder mixed in water? 

[cjacek]

How do you take it CJACEK? Powder mixed in water? 

 

Yes, that is correct. I have my 75 year old mother on it for about 6 months now. Morning 2 scoops (about 400 mg) and later in the day another 2 scoops (400 mg). The dose isn't exact 'cause it's not possible to do with the loose powder without a micro scale but she's taking about 800 mg daily. Her results have been very good. 

[cjacek]

Also, she takes Sat and Sun completely off - no NMN on those days.

[able]

Yes, that is correct. I have my 75 year old mother on it for about 6 months now. Morning 2 scoops (about 400 mg) and later in the day another 2 scoops (400 mg). The dose isn't exact 'cause it's not possible to do with the loose powder without a micro scale but she's taking about 800 mg daily. Her results have been very good. 

 

Are you also taking it yourself, and using same method?  I guess its a lot easier to get older folks to drink it in water

[mindbender]

So wonderful! Would you care to share in what ways the results have been good? I just ordered my first NMN, the AbN powder. Why do I have a feeling it's gonna be the tiniest jar ever :D 

[cjacek]

Are you also taking it yourself, and using same method?  I guess its a lot easier to get older folks to drink it in water

 

No, not yet but I plan to take it the same way. I do agree that compliance is much easier, especially for older people. 

[cjacek]

So wonderful! Would you care to share in what ways the results have been good? I just ordered my first NMN, the AbN powder. Why do I have a feeling it's gonna be the tiniest jar ever :D 

 

My mom's arthritis pain cleared up. She has more energy even with less sleep. And, while this may not be scientific, her physiological recovery is remarkable. She pulled a muscle recently pretty bad, nearest the attachment to her knee, with swelling and couldn't walk but, within less than a week, she made a complete recovery. Maybe someone in their 20's or 30's but at 75? Man. Now I'm not sure this is due to NMN but I have no reason to doubt it. Overall it seems she's slowly reversing her biological aging, at least from these observations.   

[cjacek]

You know, God Bless the people over at Alive By Nature, they put out a quality product but I sure wish they'd quit making misleading statements on their site, such as: "Taken sublingually (under the tongue) NAD+, NMN and NR may be more effective as they can be rapidly absorbed directly to the bloodstream, bypassing the GI tract entirely." Well, at least they use the word "may" instead of "are".. 

[Canetti]

@able: What I meant by "trashing the only proven by science oral administration" is that they're angling so much of their efforts on the sublingual delivery methods and product line, which I agree is unproven as far as any human or animal clinical testing (as far as the sublingual is concerned), that they are actually going out of their way to discount or deem "inferior" (their actual words) any oral means of NMN delivery (NMN taken with water), which was the foundation on which NMN was proven clinically to work and raise NAD+ levels in animals and humans. Not to mention the newly discovered specific NMN transport in the gut of all places. But this company seems so invested in their sublingual angle that they don't seem to care. I agree sublingual is an "educated guess" at best and it may indeed work well but no one really knows. We do, however, know that oral works well and has been proven to raise NAD+ levels in clinical trials. Perhaps there are limitation to this approach but it's the only one we have for sure that we know works. Maybe add things to it to make it more bio-available or prevent possible homeostasis, I dunno, but at least work in this framework and not misinform. And yet ABN is doing just that on both their official site and also Facebook posts. And while they don't specifically say "capsules don't work", they do use alternate language to make it seem like that. They say, for example, "capsules" or oral NMN gets "destroyed" or "digested" by the stomach, that oral NMN is an "inferior" product and such things... It all started when I asked for them to bring back the capsules version of their powder. I tried to respectfully ask them about this but it's an uphill battle especially when several members on there keep on echoing the company's misinformation. I think people are confusing advertisement claims and science. And I don't want to hit them harder by criticizing them on their public Facebook page by saying "sublingual remains unproven" because they'd probably delete my posts and stop selling me product. But it remains frustrating because I tell 'em to stop telling people that capsules or taking NMN in water doesn't work well, while touting the benefits of the unproven sublingual. I have no issue if they promote both methods but why misinform like that? Yes, they are trying very hard to convince people on their sub tablets while trashing anything else. Isn't it a surprise then that the tabs are sold out on their site? And now copy-cats started popping up as you mention. Anyway, I do hope more companies come on board, with good quality certified product and prices go down 'cause I now see ABN stopped offering a lower cost "3 jars" deal on their powder. And I don't think they're doing dangerous marketing (if misinformation or pseudoscience isn't dangerous), I just feel that they have so much vested interest in the sublingual way that they don't wanna hear anything else... Too bad. I just wish they'd stick to a straight forward basic product line, like the quality powder they have.     

 

Couldn't agree more. They do directly state iirc that oral NMN (and NR too) is almost completely broken down to NAM before it then enters the biosynthetic pathway to eventually become NAD in the body. This despite a lot of studies that suggest differential effects of NMN (and NR) from NAM. And the recent identification of a NMN transporter.

 

When they first introduced the sublingual product, they either mistakenly or disingenuously referred to a study that found that sublingual adminstration (of what substance, I forget) was even more effective than injection. However, as I pointed out in a comment (not sure if they still let people post comments on their site), the "injection" used in the study they cited were interperitoneal injections, which of course are subject to first-pass metabolism, so really not much more bioavailable than straight oral delivery. Last time I checked, a few weeks ago, they were still making the same claim and citing the same study. I think I also mentioned that a number of factors go into how successfully a compound is absorbed sublingually, such as, while it clearly must be water soluble, as substance must have lipophilic qualities as well to be successfully delivered sublingually. And that it was not enough that a molecule simply be water soluble and of low-molecular weight, as they were implying.

 

To their credit, instead of just deleting my comment, they responded to it publicly by stating that my observations weren't necessarily wrong, but they were still convinced sublingual delivery was a superior way to take it. Anyway, that was back in Feb. or Mar. of 2018. I believe that exchange is long gone from their website now. It is weird that they've gone full tilt boogie re their sublingual tablets, and won't provide capsules despite apparent demand. I can't imagine it's an IPR issue, but something is up. I've seen enough to know that businesses often cover up the real motivation for something with a polyannaish claim, like when a restaurant closes "for renovation" but then opens up as a completely unrelated place. ABN's unsupported and almost strident denunciation of the oral availability of NMN has a bit of the same smell to it.   

[PAMPAGUY]

Couldn't agree more. They do directly state iirc that oral NMN (and NR too) is almost completely broken down to NAM before it then enters the biosynthetic pathway to eventually become NAD in the body. This despite a lot of studies that suggest differential effects of NMN (and NR) from NAM. And the recent identification of a NMN transporter.

 

When they first introduced the sublingual product, they either mistakenly or disingenuously referred to a study that found that sublingual adminstration (of what substance, I forget) was even more effective than injection. However, as I pointed out in a comment (not sure if they still let people post comments on their site), the "injection" used in the study they cited were interperitoneal injections, which of course are subject to first-pass metabolism, so really not much more bioavailable than straight oral delivery. Last time I checked, a few weeks ago, they were still making the same claim and citing the same study. I think I also mentioned that a number of factors go into how successfully a compound is absorbed sublingually, such as, while it clearly must be water soluble, as substance must have lipophilic qualities as well to be successfully delivered sublingually. And that it was not enough that a molecule simply be water soluble and of low-molecular weight, as they were implying.

 

To their credit, instead of just deleting my comment, they responded to it publicly by stating that my observations weren't necessarily wrong, but they were still convinced sublingual delivery was a superior way to take it. Anyway, that was back in Feb. or Mar. of 2018. I believe that exchange is long gone from their website now. It is weird that they've gone full tilt boogie re their sublingual tablets, and won't provide capsules despite apparent demand. I can't imagine it's an IPR issue, but something is up. I've seen enough to know that businesses often cover up the real motivation for something with a polyannaish claim, like when a restaurant closes "for renovation" but then opens up as a completely unrelated place. ABN's unsupported and almost strident denunciation of the oral availability of NMN has a bit of the same smell to it.   

 

[PAMPAGUY]

What they are trying to cover up it that NR or N+R are both very good NAD precussors and cheaper.  They are correct that Sublingual is the way to go. 

 

 

If you would read what Dr. Attia had to say about oral delivery of NAD, NMN, NR he would recommend either IV or sublingual.  Oral never gets into the cells, except liver.  He also quotes a trial that he had not read when he interviewed Dr. Sinclair, where they traced NAD, NMN, and NR through the body and it did not get into cells.  You must bypass the liver to get into the cells.  This video came out after the Sinclair interview.   Please skip to 1:57 on video to hear what he has to say about it.  https://peterattiamd.com/ama03/ Cells cannot take up NAD, must manufacture there own, so precursors are the way to go, but not orally.  "Anyone using oral delivery for NAD precussors, is doing nothing but making the manufactures and distributors wealthy."

 

In a newer followup on the Kevin Rose Show, Dr. Attia talks about taking Rapamycin, but at the end of the podcast he talks about NAD supplementation, specifically about NAD precussors delivered IV or subliminally to skip the liver..https://podcastnotes.../01/17/attia-5/

 

Human longevity is moving very fast these days, and it is difficult to keep up.

 

 

[cjacek]

At the risk of posting something again which is deemed as "pointless" or "time wasting", let me just say (to respond to PAMPAGUY) that sublingual has never been proven to be as good or better than oral. It may or it may not be. But here's the problem, only a small percentage of the sublingual dose is actually absorbed into the blood directly and the majority passes into the gut and you'd have to take small doses many times a day to make it possibly worth your while. And I underline the word "possibly". And lets not forget about the recently discovered NMN specific transporter Slc12a8 in the small intestine. So I do not agree with Dr. Attia. 

And as for the Alive by Nature company and their push for sublingual, I think that they're simply over-invested in this method (in more ways than one) and wish to differentiate their company from others. But I think the former is more true 'cause for them to turn back now and admit that they might be going in the wrong direction might prove disastrous for them or at least embarrassing (although I doubt they'd lose any customers). I'm not saying that they're disingenuous or outright deceptive but rather that they want to believe so much in their product, that they might not see clearly. Hey, who knows, maybe they're at least partly on the right path. Time will tell.

On the other hand, their current sublingual tablets are very well made, dissolve almost instantly and have a pleasant taste. I too would like a capsules version (because it's difficult to get a precise dose of off the powder but it's otherwise first rate quality) but currently take the powder and sublingual tabs. They have great customer service and make a quality product as I said before. I'm just a bit annoyed about the company's weirdness when it comes to some of the info and product availability, echoing some of Canetti's post up above.       

Edited by cjacek, 08 March 2019 - 11:27 AM.

[Colin]

Anyone else noticed how NMN is getting more expensive at ABN? They used to sell 12 jars (12g each jar) which made the $ per gram affordable, then the they changed it to 6 jars to allow for bulk ordering and then only 3 jars. Now not even 3. Best value for money seems the 240 sublingual tablets. Does anyone know of a trusted source to get it in bulk?

[able]

Anyone else noticed how NMN is getting more expensive at ABN? They used to sell 12 jars (12g each jar) which made the $ per gram affordable, then the they changed it to 6 jars to allow for bulk ordering and then only 3 jars. Now not even 3. Best value for money seems the 240 sublingual tablets. Does anyone know of a trusted source to get it in bulk?

 

Yeah, I was a bit irritated about that also, and gave them a call a few days ago.  Monica said that they have had trouble getting enough raw material to keep everything in stock, so decided to stop selling the packages for now, as they would rather get single jars in everyones hands, rather than having some people stock up now for the year.

 

I guess that makes sense for them to forego a little cash flow now and  maximize customer acquisition.

 

I just hope they can catch up and put the quantity discounts back online soon.  She wouldn't commit to me if that would be weeks or months.  Probably depends on how much publicity Dr Sinclair brings.

 

I remember someone had posted a discount coupon code for ABN a while back, but can't seem to find it now - anyone know?

 

On the bright side, I must say their new sublingual tablets are awesome. Very fast dissolve, and taste great. I still think a powder is more bioavailable, so provides more bang for the buck, but I find myself eating the tablets a lot more now.

 

Edited by able, 11 March 2019 - 01:01 AM.

[Phoebus]

Anyone else noticed how NMN is getting more expensive at ABN? They used to sell 12 jars (12g each jar) which made the $ per gram affordable, then the they changed it to 6 jars to allow for bulk ordering and then only 3 jars. Now not even 3. Best value for money seems the 240 sublingual tablets. Does anyone know of a trusted source to get it in bulk?

 

 

Its because they are constantly running out of NMN, thats why. I don't understand why but thats the reason. Apparently there is a limited production of NMN unlike NR. Maybe only one place manufactures it? I don't know 

[Phoebus]

At the risk of posting something again which is deemed as "pointless" or "time wasting", let me just say (to respond to PAMPAGUY) that sublingual has never been proven to be as good or better than oral. It may or it may not be. But here's the problem, only a small percentage of the sublingual dose is actually absorbed into the blood directly and the majority passes into the gut and you'd have to take small doses many times a day to make it possibly worth your while. And I underline the word "possibly". And lets not forget about the recently discovered NMN specific transporter Slc12a8 in the small intestine. So I do not agree with Dr. Attia. 

   

 

 

Yes but what you are missing is that after you do the sublingual thing you still swallow the NMN which is then absorbed by the intestines. So you get whatever amount is absorbed sublingually + whatever is absorbed in the stomach and intestines. Really there is no down side to doing sublingual. 

[PAMPAGUY]

Yes but what you are missing is that after you do the sublingual thing you still swallow the NMN which is then absorbed by the intestines. So you get whatever amount is absorbed sublingually + whatever is absorbed in the stomach and intestines. Really there is no down side to doing sublingual. 

 

I had encouraged everyone to research the scientific trial conducted by Joshua Rabinowitz, Phd who is a personal classmate and friend of Dr. Attia.  No one did so.  I am posting it here so everyone can digest it's implications.  Also, read and listen to my previous post from Dr. Attia.

 

http://sci-hub.tw/ht...met.2018.03.018

 

What they did in the trial was label NAD precussors and NAD with isotopes so they could follow them in the body after ingesting them orally.  They proved that none of the tested substances made it past the liver.  You are not going to get much better evidence that this study of the futility of taking NAD or it's precursors orally and expect any increase in NAD in the mitochondria.  There will be some who will try and attack solid evidence and facts such as these, but they are the same that preached that the world is flat, inoculations don't protect against viruses, and that antibiotics do not kill bacteria infections.  As, I pointed out in my previous post that Dr. Attia had come to the conclusion after talking with his research colleagues that NAD and it's precursors when taken orally do not every make it to the cells where they really need to be.  While sublingual and IV will get the NAD precussors where they need to be, taking NAD either orally or subliminally is a waste of money.  According to the real experts, NAD cannot be taken up by the mitochondria, but has to be manufactured in the cell.  So precursors are the way to go.  I personally will continue to follow this advise until a more concrete study is published refuting these facts.  And they are facts, not theory.

 

ABN wants to continue selling NAD and NMN, but if I was going to purchase one it would be the sublingual NR which ABN does not sell because of the taste.  One can manufacture there own with N+R, with no bad taste.  In the above cited trial under "Conclusions", " Surprisingly, i.v. NR was much more effective than NMN for labeling the NAD pool in the skeletal muscle. This is consistent with the proposal that at least some tissues are incapable of taking up NMN directly (Ratajczak et al., 2016; Nikiforov et al., 2011)."  As far as the amount of the sublingual dose that makes it into the blood stream, all I know is if a person takes a nitroglycerin tablet under there tongue they get an almost immediate response.  I'm sure there are studies on sublingual dosing, but will have to research.

Edited by PAMPAGUY, 11 March 2019 - 07:56 AM.

[Phoebus]

 While sublingual and IV will get the NAD precussors where they need to be, taking NAD either orally or subliminally is a waste of money.  According to the real experts, NAD cannot be taken up by the mitochondria, but has to be manufactured in the cell.  

 

 

 a recent study indicated that exogenous NAD can cross the plasma membrane and elevate mitochondrial NAD levels in mammalian cells enhancing mitochondrial oxygen consumption and ATP production. So sublingual NAD may be a viable method of raising NAD content of the mito. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21917911

 

 

 

Here, we report that intracellular NAD contents increased upon exposure of cell lines or primary cultures to exogenous NAD (eNAD). NAD precursors [nicotinamide, NMN, NR] could not reproduce the effects of eNAD, and they were not found in the incubating medium containing eNAD, thereby suggesting direct cellular eNAD uptake.

 

 

 
We found that in mitochondria of cells exposed to eNAD, NAD and NADH as well as oxygen consumption and ATP production were increased. Conversely, DNA repair, a well known NAD-dependent process, was unaltered upon eNAD exposure. We also report that eNAD conferred significant cytoprotection from apoptosis triggered by staurosporine, C2-ceramide, or N-methyl-N′-nitro-N-nitrosoguanidine. In particular, eNAD reduced staurosporine-induced loss of mitochondrial membrane potential and ensuing caspase activation. ...

 

Pharmacological effects of exogenous  NAD on mitochondrial bioenergetics, DNA repair, and apoptosis. 

 

 

Edited by Phoebus, 11 March 2019 - 02:58 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

ABN wants to continue selling NAD and NMN, but if I was going to purchase one it would be the sublingual NR which ABN does not sell because of the taste.  One can manufacture there own with N+R, with no bad taste.  In the above cited trial under "Conclusions", " Surprisingly, i.v. NR was much more effective than NMN for labeling the NAD pool in the skeletal muscle. This is consistent with the proposal that at least some tissues are incapable of taking up NMN directly (Ratajczak et al., 2016; Nikiforov et al., 2011)." 

 

 

So you think taking N+R will have the same results as taking NR? Besides the tastes, Another problem with NR is the crazy amounts of excipients  they put there, good grief. I have no desire to absorb a bunch of mycrocrystilline cellulose sublingually. 

[LawrenceW]

I had encouraged everyone to research the scientific trial conducted by Joshua Rabinowitz, Phd who is a personal classmate and friend of Dr. Attia.  No one did so.  I am posting it here so everyone can digest it's implications.  Also, read and listen to my previous post from Dr. Attia.

 

http://sci-hub.tw/ht...met.2018.03.018

 

What they did in the trial was label NAD precussors and NAD with isotopes so they could follow them in the body after ingesting them orally.  They proved that none of the tested substances made it past the liver.  You are not going to get much better evidence that this study of the futility of taking NAD or it's precursors orally and expect any increase in NAD in the mitochondria.  There will be some who will try and attack solid evidence and facts such as these, but they are the same that preached that the world is flat, inoculations don't protect against viruses, and that antibiotics do not kill bacteria infections.  As, I pointed out in my previous post that Dr. Attia had come to the conclusion after talking with his research colleagues that NAD and it's precursors when taken orally do not every make it to the cells where they really need to be.  While sublingual and IV will get the NAD precussors where they need to be, taking NAD either orally or subliminally is a waste of money.  According to the real experts, NAD cannot be taken up by the mitochondria, but has to be manufactured in the cell.  So precursors are the way to go.  I personally will continue to follow this advise until a more concrete study is published refuting these facts.  And they are facts, not theory.

 

 

 

The Liu study you referenced above is contradicted on its NMN findings by this study. 

 

https://www.nature.c...018-0009-4#Sec8

 

 

Specifically "We have previously shown that NMN is absorbed from the gut into blood circulation within 2–3 min and transported into tissues within 10–30 min (refs 5,15). NMN is then immediately utilized for NAD+biosynthesis, significantly increasing NAD+ content in tissues over 60 min. This fast pharmacokinetics has recently been confirmed by using doubly labelled isotopic NMN (C13-D-NMN), showing its rapid absorption and conversion to NAD+ in peripheral tissues15. It has also been proposed that NMN is converted extracellularly to NR, which is transported into cells and reconverted to NMN21. Recent studies, however, have shown that the analyses of in vivo kinetics of these NAD+intermediates are affected by differences in sample collection and extraction methodologies22,23 (also see Methods). Therefore, it is critical to understand the mechanism by which NMN or NR is transported into cells or tissues. The fast pharmacokinetics of NMN led us to the hypothesis that there is an effective transporter that facilitates the direct uptake of NMN into the gut and other organs. Thus, we set out to identify this presumed NMN transporter in mammals."

 

and

 

"Additionally, how to analyse the in vivo kinetics of NMN is also critical, and the results could be significantly affected by differences in sample collection and extraction methodologies22,23. For example, plasma samples need to be processed immediately after collection, as we did in this study, because freezing blood or plasma samples causes inaccurate measures of NMN levels."

 

What the author of this study is suggesting in the kindest way is that Liu didn't collect the NMN samples for testing in the correct way thereby generating bad data to base the NMN portion of their study on.

[able]

 

 a recent study indicated that exogenous NAD can cross the plasma membrane and elevate mitochondrial NAD levels in mammalian cells enhancing mitochondrial oxygen consumption and ATP production. So sublingual NAD may be a viable method of raising NAD content of the mito. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/21917911

 

 

 

Pharmacological effects of exogenous  NAD on mitochondrial bioenergetics, DNA repair, and apoptosis. 

 

 

 

Good point Phoebus.  Some other quotes from that study:

 

 

 

The ability of eNAD to increase the mitochondrial NAD content and energy production is of particular relevance 

 

mitochondrial fluctuation of NAD contents according to those present in the cytoplasm does not seem bidirectional 

 

It seems, therefore, that these organelles are able to maintain their NAD content when that of cytosol decreases, but readily increase the pyridine nucleotide pool when the cytoplasmic availability of NAD and/or its precursors increases 

 

A key finding of our study is that apoptosis is reduced by increasing the extracellular concentrations of NAD 

 

Our data are consistent with previous reports showing that eNAD affords protection from various stresses such as beta-amyloid (Qin et al., 2006), ischemia (Wang et al., 2008), NMNAT inactivation (Wang et al., 2005) or PARP-1-dependent cell death

 

These findings are at odds with the hypothesis that eNAD increase iNAD contents because of extracellularly-formed NAD precursor

 

I've seen another study also shows NAD+  enters and increases NAD+ inside the hypothalamus, without conversion, and is effective  at just 1 mg/kg.  I'll see if I can find that and edit this post to add the reference.

 

But it seems clear that NAD+ does enter some cells directly, so it makes sense to me that sublingual NAD+ would be useful - perhaps in addition to NMN and/or NR.

Edited by able, 11 March 2019 - 04:12 PM.

[able]

Ah, here's the reference for the NAD+ being effective at 1 mg/kg a day.  I remembered it wrong - was in heart tissue.  I know there was some research on hypothalamus that ABN referenced, but don't see it right now.

 

 

Exogenous NAD Blocks Cardiac Hypertrophic Response via Activation of the SIRT3-LKB1-AMP-activated Kinase Pathway (Pillai, 2009)

 

Mice were simultaneously treated with NAD at 1 mg/kg/day for 2 weeks 

 

These results indicated that NAD treatment prevented the development of cardiomyocyte hypertrophy 

NAD treatment restored the cellular NAD level

 

 

[able]

ah, here's the article about NAD+ entering hypothalamus.

 

They used labelled NAD+ that shows it enters the cells in  hypothalamus without conversion.

 

This one also found it  effective at  just 1 mg/kg a day, so that is 2 I stumbled on using far smaller dosages than with NR or NMN.  

 

Are any of the studies with NR or NMN being effective at such a tiny dose?

 

 

 

Edited by able, 12 March 2019 - 12:04 AM.

[AgingIsKillingMe]

I'm new here, so what seems to me to be an obvious approach may, in fact, be naive/uninformed nonsense! That disclaimer in place...

 

I've seen where there are "group buys" of other products direct from labs, why isn't there an effort to go this route with NMN? My understanding is that ABN is, in reality, a marketing company. They have a lab (a lab known to members here from my understanding) produce NMN for them in various forms and ABN sells it. Any worthwhile test of purity/COA is going to be from a 3rd party lab, so there's really no "value added" from ABN- or am I totally missing something here? I seem to recall from one of Sinclair's talks that NMN is not difficult to produce.

 

There are a lot of really bright people here-- which is why I've hesitated to even post this as it's not exactly an original thought that has alluded the group. I've searched quite a bit and failed to find such an effort to approach labs for a group buy...

 

[AgingIsKillingMe]

As to the other recent topic in this thread- yeah, ABN has thrown oral delivery under the bus and all 4 of their current NMN products are all now sublingual. Just seems odd to me. There definitely is a need for more (reputable) competitors to ABN in the space.

 

Dr. Sinclair is taking oral and the mice in his trials are given NMN in their drinking water. I'm not educated in terms of rodent gut/liver vs human; but Sinclair isn't a rodent. Safe to say he's heard of sublingual delivery- yet he's not going that route himself. Why? The above referenced receptors in the gut maybe a factor, idk.

 

The skeptic in me says that if supply is tight and expected to be tight for quite a while (perhaps what ABN is hearing from their lab?), better business to market lower dose sublingual at a higher price per mg. Baseless speculation, to be sure- just thinking aloud.

[Ducky-001]

Its because they are constantly running out of NMN, thats why. I don't understand why but thats the reason. Apparently there is a limited production of NMN unlike NR. Maybe only one place manufactures it? I don't know 

 

This is the probable reason: 

1.22 million views makes a lot of customers.

Edited by Ducky-001, 12 March 2019 - 07:41 AM.

[able]

When I was complaining to them last week, Monica told me they can get enough raw ingredient now, but they have to process it further after they get it to make it work well for sublingual use, and that has been a bottleneck for them, but they think it is resolved now.  

Edited by able, 12 March 2019 - 08:10 AM.

[Oakman]

I'm new here, so what seems to me to be an obvious approach may, in fact, be naive/uninformed nonsense! That disclaimer in place...

 

I've seen where there are "group buys" of other products direct from labs, why isn't there an effort to go this route with NMN? My understanding is that ABN is, in reality, a marketing company. They have a lab (a lab known to members here from my understanding) produce NMN for them in various forms and ABN sells it. Any worthwhile test of purity/COA is going to be from a 3rd party lab, so there's really no "value added" from ABN- or am I totally missing something here? I seem to recall from one of Sinclair's talks that NMN is not difficult to produce.

 

There are a lot of really bright people here-- which is why I've hesitated to even post this as it's not exactly an original thought that has alluded the group. I've searched quite a bit and failed to find such an effort to approach labs for a group buy...

 

I think saying ABN doesn't add any value is a bit harsh. Aside from offering the product we want at a semi-reasonable price in the 1st place, they have been innovative in producing different types of NMN and NAD+, sublingual, pure powder, and nasal. They are responsive and answer their phone with answers to question we consumers have for them. They have given of themselves by sponsoring months long contests to try unlimited NMN to those willing to participate and provide feedback.

 

I can not come up with any other supplement company that has come anywhere close to that level of customer support and friendliness.

[efficientcommittee]

You can buy Alive By Nature NAD & NMN Supplements for delivery to the UK & EU from nadlab.uk...

Although still out of most people price range, the Alive by Nature products seem the best value / £ per mg. 36 grams of NMN for £180 (£0.50 per 100mg, $0.67 / 100mg) is the best they have.

 

I've enquired with a number of UK based supplement manufacturers, to see if they can supply it in bulk with no luck other than those offering to contact their Chinese suppliers.

A manufacturer in the UK or EU would make a killing! If anyone knows any, please let me know!