176 replies to this topic

[LALawrence]

The brand of NMN I started with prior to going on this site was a company that I can’t get any longer, but I remember how I felt on it. I ran out of them & ordered ABN and possibly I am so used to feeling fully charged now that it feels like nothing is happening, when in fact it is. I’m not sure. I just don’t notice it like I did at the beginning. My friend who just started trying Double Wood and also trying ABN said that she doesn’t feel anything from the ABN, but does feel a lot from Double Wood. I have not tried it yet.

[PAMPAGUY]

This website checks reviews on Amazon for validity.                https://reviewmeta.com/

[mike20g]

omg pro health nmn has so much lead in it sorry for previus post its 30 parts per bilion lead in 125 capsule they masked the number by posting in pars per million on they re website

 

 

no source they posted this on theyre website you can check it out right now its under product they are doing a usual scan they are posting in parts per million not pats per billion i got followed at start and thats why i asked where do they buy it from because i thought its cheap im sorry again was very stupid of me 

 

Posts above got me thinking about lead content in NMN. I looked at pro health website

https://www.prohealt...-capsules-ph518

 

It shows 0.021ppm for lead in lab report. Unless I am making gross mistake in the following calcs, this content does not worry me:

0.021ppm translates to 0.021 mcg lead per 1g of nmn. If you take 1g of nmn then you are getting 0.021 mcg of lead. The most restrictive accepted standard of heavy metal toxicity is based on California Proposition 65 DAILY Limits and for lead it has 0.5 mcg daily limit. 0.021 ppm would not move a needle.

 

Out of curiosity I looked at suppliers discussed here and what they report as of this posting:

 

* ABN (I use this supplier) - does not do heavy metal testing(?)

https://alivebynatur...ingual-tablets/

 

* Genex (I used their capsules before) - does not do heavy metal testing(?)

https://www.genexfor...-mononucleotide

 

* MAAC10 (I used their capsules before) - no third party tests and no COA(?)

https://www.maac10.com/pages/nmn

 

 

* RevGenetics (not used before) - their threshold for lead is 5ppm, which is too high and result is not very useful. For practical purposes lead content is unknown.

https://store.revgen...-mononucleotide

Third party report:

https://cdn.shopify....794413875052797

 

 

* Pro Health discussed above (I have not used them so far) - 0.021ppm lead = per calc above 0.021 mcg per 1g nmn

https://www.prohealt...-capsules-ph518

 

* Double Wood (I have not used them so far) - 0.020 mcg per 1 capsule (250mg nmn). Also contains other heavy metals.

https://doublewoodsu...-mononucleotide

 

COA, Third Party Lab results do not test for Heavy Metals:

https://cdn.shopify...._COA_2.pdf?1493

[SearchingForAnswers]

It would seem as though there is room for a reputable US manufacturer, whom would submit their products to random testing via a third party firm whom simply purchases the capsules from them (manufacturer can't know whom of course), and then has them tested routinely.

 

How much would it cost to get a lab going? Maybe some chemistry students?

[TMNMK]

SearchingForAnswers: https://www.beilstei.../articles/15/36

 

I'd say have a chat with a chemist from one of the manufacturers that already makes small amounts of it for research. They'd probably be able to give you roundabout numbers on equipment, reaction scaling, etc. then you could make a decision from there. It probably doesn't yet make financial sense is my guess. I would not go grab a student by the collar and fire up a lab on a wing and a prayer as there are a thousand lines and wrong turns between every word in that paper. For example, when you read something seemingly benign like "The need for the removal of the excess reagents renders the isolation procedure cumbersome." Note that "cumbersome" is probably an understatement and you're going to be going through hell and hell is probably a sticky, burnt, nasty and confusing mess, hundreds of times over. And this is  but one paper, the only one I know of on the topic. You definitely should find someone that's done it already on a small scale first. The bench skills are going to be critical (and if you want to turn a profit, well... I'll tip my hat & my wallet if you get there!)

Edited by TMNMK, 22 September 2019 - 11:03 PM.

[Nick Kyz]

Botany.bio is carrying the most affordable third party tested NMN, NAD+, NR now:
https://botany.bio/

[Tony2019]

Great price. Have you tried their service?

What about the product?

This is a definite option for me if its the real thing.

Thanks

Botany.bio is carrying the most affordable third party tested NMN, NAD+, NR now:
https://botany.bio/

 

[PAMPAGUY]

Here is the latest Dr. Sinclair video.  He takes 1 gm NMN orally, and daily along with 1 gm Trans resveratrol with fat. (yogurt)  You need 1 gm of NMN to get over the high bar for the NMN to get out of the liver and into other parts of body.  He does not take subliminally.  The resveratrol is used as a booster for the NMN.  Without high dose the NMN stays in liver and makes NAD there, but no where else.  A lot of discussion about dosing, and cites.  He also says that his company is working on other NAD precursors much stronger and better than NMN.

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=5DtWqzalEnc

[Jeff Tom]

I have used Herbalcart's NMN supplement for over one year and I like that they are always innovating and coming up with scientifically proven formulations that are hard to find elsewhere.

[Peatson]

Posts above got me thinking about lead content in NMN. I looked at pro health website

https://www.prohealt...-capsules-ph518

 

It shows 0.021ppm for lead in lab report. Unless I am making gross mistake in the following calcs, this content does not worry me:

0.021ppm translates to 0.021 mcg lead per 1g of nmn. If you take 1g of nmn then you are getting 0.021 mcg of lead. The most restrictive accepted standard of heavy metal toxicity is based on California Proposition 65 DAILY Limits and for lead it has 0.5 mcg daily limit. 0.021 ppm would not move a needle.

 

Out of curiosity I looked at suppliers discussed here and what they report as of this posting:

 

* ABN (I use this supplier) - does not do heavy metal testing(?)

https://alivebynatur...ingual-tablets/

 

* Genex (I used their capsules before) - does not do heavy metal testing(?)

https://www.genexfor...-mononucleotide

 

* MAAC10 (I used their capsules before) - no third party tests and no COA(?)

https://www.maac10.com/pages/nmn

 

 

* RevGenetics (not used before) - their threshold for lead is 5ppm, which is too high and result is not very useful. For practical purposes lead content is unknown.

https://store.revgen...-mononucleotide

Third party report:

https://cdn.shopify....794413875052797

 

 

* Pro Health discussed above (I have not used them so far) - 0.021ppm lead = per calc above 0.021 mcg per 1g nmn

https://www.prohealt...-capsules-ph518

 

* Double Wood (I have not used them so far) - 0.020 mcg per 1 capsule (250mg nmn). Also contains other heavy metals.

https://doublewoodsu...-mononucleotide

 

COA, Third Party Lab results do not test for Heavy Metals:

https://cdn.shopify...._COA_2.pdf?1493

 

Talking about lead in these brands is pointless, taking a 5 minute shower would equate to a far greater lead count. It's ubiquitous. People here do not need to worry about the lead content in any of these products, as for the far majority of all supplements and powders on sale through reputable brands. 

[aribadabar]

I just came across this new offering ( currently out of stock) which seems the most affordable thus far:

https://www.toniiq.c...b5e87fe3a&_ss=r

 

Not sure how genuine/pure is this product at this pricepoint but the CoA supplied looks OK.

 

Has anyone used this offering already?

Edited by aribadabar, 13 January 2020 - 11:14 PM.

[able]

I just came across this new offering ( currently out of stock) which seems the most affordable thus far:

https://www.toniiq.c...b5e87fe3a&_ss=r

 

Not sure how genuine/pure is this product at this pricepoint but the CoA supplied looks OK.

 

Has anyone used this offering already?

 

 

Nice looking bottle.

 

They use the misleading tactic of quoting 300 mg per SERVING, which is 2 capsules.  So their price is about the same as others charge.

 

They might be good quality, but the test report doesn't have a company name, so no way to verify if it is real or fake.

 

Being a brand new company and website doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

Edited by able, 14 January 2020 - 03:57 AM.

[rodentman]

The resveratrol is used as a booster for the NMN.  

 

how does this work?

[aribadabar]

Nice looking bottle.

 

They use the misleading tactic of quoting 300 mg per SERVING, which is 2 capsules.  So their price is about the same as others charge.

 

They might be good quality, but the test report doesn't have a company name, so no way to verify if it is real or fake.

 

Being a brand new company and website doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

 

Thanks for catching that on. Yes, the pricing does not look all that attractive after all.

So nothing sub $4.xx per gram retail yet, eh?

I guess until that 100-ton NMN factory in China starts producing, most probably there will not be any competitive offer.

[aribadabar]

how does this work?

 

I think it is the other way around - NMN boosts NAD+ levels which increase sirtuin activity and Resveratrol is a known SIRT activator so it acts like a turbo-boost of that process of DNA demethylation by sirtuins.

[TheFountain]

Any new sources of decent bulk sublingual NMN circulating? Aliveby nature seems to still be the best deal!

[Dstein]

Any new sources of decent bulk sublingual NMN circulating? Aliveby nature seems to still be the best deal!

 

https://purebulk.com...-mononucleotide.  They also have several sales during the year. 
 

[able]

https://purebulk.com...-mononucleotide.  They also have several sales during the year. 
 

 

Pure Bulk is a good company imo.  Have bought from them many times and always been happy.

 

Prices are started to come down finally.  I noticed ABN is now selling a 100 gram bag as well, which seems to be the best price I have found.

 

https://alivebynatur...egory/nmn-only/

[TheFountain]

https://purebulk.com...-mononucleotide.  They also have several sales during the year. 
 

 

You think that's a deal? 5 grams for $97.00?

 

Alivebynature sells 14 gram sublingual powder for $55.00! And they're reputable on top of it!

[able]

Oops.  Pasted the wrong link.

 

They have 100 grams for $311 - $3.11 per gram

 

https://alivebynatur...wder-100-grams/

[duslompo]

Just read this whole thread, but the main question for me with NMN, NR or pretty much any expensive supplement remains unanswered, unfortunately: how can I know if I'm ingesting the real thing?

 

Anyone can put caffeine or whatever white powder in some capsules, create a nifty website and a fake certificate of analysis and start selling "NMN" or "NR". Or they can be a bit less dogdy and just send a good batch for analysis, get a real certificate but still sell a fake product. Or maybe even less dodgy (but still dodgy): sell a product that is not completely fake, but has, let's say, 70% of the real thing rather than 99%. There are several levels of "dodginess" one can go about just to make some easy profits.

 

For all we know, even Alive By Nature and TruNiagen, which seem to be the two most reputable NMN/NR manufacturers in the market these days, could be doing something along those lines since there's no regulation or formal audit process!

 

I'm not saying they are doing it, I'm just saying that if they're doing it there's no way for us to know unless we test whenever we buy (which would be ridiculously expensive).

 

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit negative. I'm a huge anti-aging/biohacker enthusiast, but this is the one thing that bothers me and makes me think twice whenever there's a new supplement in the market that's a bit more pricey.

 

Keen to hear everyone's thoughts on this (this seems to be the right thread for it, but happy for it to be moved if needed).

[Oakman]

At least with NMN and my taste buds, there is a faint, but distinct and unmistakable sour or citrus taste when taking the sublingual powder. It may be possible to fake that taste, but it's likely not easy.

 

I haven't tried NR that way, but as I understand it's not that good tasting, so there again, there is that.

 

Although tastes can be faked with astute chemistry, it is one "un-scientific' way to tell if you are getting ripped off.

[Harkijn]

Hi Duslompo, you don't sound negative to me, you are voicing the doubts of many here. In the end it is a matter of trust, because any underling in any reputable company could want to earn a fast buck. This also applies to companies that produce prescription medicine btw.

 

You  speak of new supplements, but I have been  taking NR for more than 5 years now and and I am extremely energetic for a 68year old. Is that because of NR? I couldn't prove it, but I think it helps! I am taking  a LEF product having NIAGEN on the label, I would not buy anything just called NR...Check up on the producing company Chromadex to see their background.

 

I don't know much about NMN as a substance, there is surprisingly little research on humans about it and the company that mainly  sells it received a cease and desist letter from the US FDA about claims on their website. Sometimes the FDA is our friend! Buyer beware!

[duslompo]

Tks for the replies, @Oakman and @Harkijn.

 

I do agree that there are some "unscientific" methods, but unfortunately it's all subjective (at least that's my impression). How can you be sure that you're not getting 50% of the real thing and 50% of fillers? Or 70/30? Or even 0/100? There's simply no way to be 100% sure unless you pay for the test, which sucks big time!

 

Regarding the companies, the ones you mentioned @Harkijn are the ones I mentioned in my original post: Chromadex (I incorrectly said the company is called TruNiagen, which is actually the name of the product, not of the company) and Alive By Nature (the FDA letter they got was related to COVID-19 claims, not to the quality of the product - just doing my best to stay impartial here).

 

Whilst these two companies seem to be the most reputable for NR and NMN respectively, it's still a bit of a black box in my view. Great websites, great customer service, shiny certificates of analysis etc... but I don't know anyone who bought their products and independently tested by themselves. Would love to see, would give me huge peace of mind, but haven't seen anyone.

 

I'll end up buying NMN from Alive By Nature anyway, but will never be 100% sure I'm getting what I'm paying for. Hopefully soon someone with plenty of money lying around will independently test a few products and share the results with all of us here!

[able]

You can never be 100% sure unless you or someone you trust test every batch.

 

However, I would bet Chromadex tests the most well known brands of NMN and would not be shy about letting everyone know if results came up short.  They certainly did with Elysium, even though the solvent they found was well under the legal limits.

[duslompo]

You can never be 100% sure unless you or someone you trust test every batch.

 

However, I would bet Chromadex tests the most well known brands of NMN and would not be shy about letting everyone know if results came up short.  They certainly did with Elysium, even though the solvent they found was well under the legal limits.

 

That's interesting to know, @able, I had no idea about it. Maybe the main companies have all been testing each other's products just waiting for a small slip of a competitor so they can make some noise? Hopefully.

 

Anyhow... I've ordered some NMN from ABN and will keep a close eye on the results. I guess that's all we can do for now.

[Keizo]

At least with NMN and my taste buds, there is a faint, but distinct and unmistakable sour or citrus taste when taking the sublingual powder. It may be possible to fake that taste, but it's likely not easy.

 

I haven't tried NR that way, but as I understand it's not that good tasting, so there again, there is that.

 

Although tastes can be faked with astute chemistry, it is one "un-scientific' way to tell if you are getting ripped off.

If you are talking about pure NMN powder (which I presume I got from alivebyscience, got the 100g bag "pure nmn (sublingual powder)" that don't list any other ingredients,) then i agree it tastes vaguely citrus like (dissolved in water and drank), I'd just call it refreshing since it's very mild if I put 1 gram in 150ml water and drink it. In more concentrated form (put a tiny bit of powder on my finger and into my mouth) it tastes more buttery (I think someone mentioned popcorn way back, that seems sort of like what I'm tasting) but still some freshness.

 

But AFAIK alivebyscience puts other stuff in their "citrus burst" sublingual stuff which I have not tried, which I believe they don't in the "pure nmn (sublingual powder)"

 

I think the sense of smell (and taste being very much related) is far less subjective than most people would imagine. It's just that memories gets triggered by various smells (especially complex mixes of aroma chemicals) in say perfume, which then causes people to have complex feelings when they smell something and have all sorts of varied associations despite smelling the same thing. https://en.wikipedia...y_of_olfaction 

The main potential problem with taste/smell tests is if the main compound lacks smell and/or various tiny quantities of impurities do have a significant smell. Then it might vary from brand to brand and so forth, if there are different methods involved in the process of manufacture that produce different byproducts.

Edited by Keizo, 06 December 2020 - 01:49 AM.