672 replies to this topic

[LawrenceW]

It isn't a pessimistic view but a scientific one. It would be good to show more people but that might not be that easy to do since they would need to know what to look for.

 

Your viewpoint is definitely pessimistic because you assumed that an optometrist with over 35 years years experience flipped a coin rather than use his experienced judgement to declare one set of images healthier than the other.

 

All that I know is that my distance vision is now crisper than anytime in my measured past and my optometrist opined that the most recent pictures of my retina appeared to be healthier than the pictures from 14 years ago.

 

This is my personal experience and I am enjoying the improvement every day. 

Edited by LawrenceW, 01 September 2018 - 04:30 PM.

[bluemoon]

Your viewpoint is definitely pessimistic because you assumed that an optometrist with over 35 years years experience flipped a coin rather than use his experienced judgement to declare one set of images healthier than the other.

 

All that I know is that my distance vision is now crisper than anytime in my measured past and my optometrist opined that the most recent pictures of my retina appeared to be healthier than the pictures from 14 years ago.

 

This is my personal experience and I am enjoying the improvement every day. 

 

It isn't pessimistic because no information was provided on the extent of the difference - that is all. I'm also not saying you are not experiencing the improvement, either. Did you ask him why he thought your retinas were healthier?  He could probably explain what he was judging. 

 

I know a 63 year old scientist who swears his vision has improved with 250 mg of NR for a year, although he noticed after just a few months. He knows optics well, and he told me that he now uses glasses that he wore when in his 40s. He told me he would have his eyes checked but that was 18 months ago, and he still hasn't verified the improvement. Still, I understand his self-testing that he explained and think his vision improved. 

[LawrenceW]

It isn't pessimistic because no information was provided on the extent of the difference - that is all. 

 

Hello Bluemoon.

 

That is a fair statement.

 

Next time that I bump into him I will ask if he can give me some details.

[seescaper]

Hello  I am new to this thread. I am wondering whether NR capsules can be opened and the dosage taken as a sublingual dose. Has anyone tried this?

[LawrenceW]

Hello  I am new to this thread. I am wondering whether NR capsules can be opened and the dosage taken as a sublingual dose. Has anyone tried this?

 

Sublingual NR has a really nasty taste and there is a question as to whether NR attached to sodium chloride is too large of a molecule to cross the membrane into the bloodstream.  Why bother with NR when you can get sublingual NMN? 

[stefan_001]

Hello  I am new to this thread. I am wondering whether NR capsules can be opened and the dosage taken as a sublingual dose. Has anyone tried this?

 

Hello, I do this and I know at least 3 others that do this. I do that in morning and it causes some noticeable almost immediate brain sharpening so it probably works to some extend. The tast is not great but frankly got used to it fast. Just pore the contents under your tongue and somewhat keep there. In the end saliva increases and after some time I swallow that.

[seescaper]

There is a company called MAAC10 that also makes NMN and a few other products. A while back I bought a supply of their "UltraNR" which was a 60 tab bottle, each 2 tabs containing 250mg of NR plus 250mg pure trans resveratrol at a reasonable price. These tabs however were  a "chewable melt". I took a look and they are currently not available and i have no idea whether they were discontinued. However I tried one under the tongue and it took about 10 min to full dissolve, but was not at all unpleasant and had a sweet taste as it contained xylitol. They do have a chewable tab now with NADH and CoQ10. I do not know why the older product was pulled, but I think given the issues of oral bioavailability it would be a good way to ingest NR. Why use it with NMN available? Well, you could take both as each may have it's pluses. I haven't seen any study comparing SL NR vs SL NMN so why not? One could also do this with BASIS capsules and
I plan on trying that. I am thinking of trying a dose of 250 NR plus 500 NMN daily broken into divided doses, all taken SL, and seeing how that does.

Also, with regard to vision improvements, we can talk about vision with or without glasses. Vision without glasses (uncorrected visual acuity, or UCVA) is largely determined by the anatomy of the eye which controls the optics. Best corrected visual acuity (BCVA) involves the best vision when wearing glasses. If the BCVA is reduced by pathology then it is potentially improvable if an intervention reduces the pathology. Say the intervention improves macular degeneration or cataract, for instance. UCVA would not be improved for distance unless the intervention somehow changes the optics, which is unlikely because these are anatomically controlled. the exception might be a possibly reduction in presbyopia (need for readers) if the accommodative properties of the lens are restored somewhat.

[able]

There is a company called MAAC10 that also makes NMN and a few other products. A while back I bought a supply of their "UltraNR" which was a 60 tab bottle, each 2 tabs containing 250mg of NR plus 250mg pure trans resveratrol at a reasonable price. These tabs however were  a "chewable melt". I took a look and they are currently not available and i have no idea whether they were discontinued. However I tried one under the tongue and it took about 10 min to full dissolve, but was not at all unpleasant and had a sweet taste as it contained xylitol. They do have a chewable tab now with NADH and CoQ10. I do not know why the older product was pulled, but I think given the issues of oral bioavailability it would be a good way to ingest NR. Why use it with NMN available? Well, you could take both as each may have it's pluses. I haven't seen any study comparing SL NR vs SL NMN so why not? One could also do this with BASIS capsules and
I plan on trying that. I am thinking of trying a dose of 250 NR plus 500 NMN daily broken into divided doses, all taken SL, and seeing how that does.

Also, with regard to vision improvements, we can talk about vision with or without glasses. Vision without glasses (uncorrected visual acuity, or UCVA) is largely determined by the anatomy of the eye which controls the optics. Best corrected visual acuity (BCVA) involves the best vision when wearing glasses. If the BCVA is reduced by pathology then it is potentially improvable if an intervention reduces the pathology. Say the intervention improves macular degeneration or cataract, for instance. UCVA would not be improved for distance unless the intervention somehow changes the optics, which is unlikely because these are anatomically controlled. the exception might be a possibly reduction in presbyopia (need for readers) if the accommodative properties of the lens are restored somewhat.

 

Interesting product.  Too bad it's not available now. Likely they were cut off by Chromadex.

 

But it does show that someone can make an NR sublingual that doesn't taste horrible, so I'm even more mystified what is taking Chromadex so long to come out with one. 

 

As for their chewable NADH + CoQ10 - Why do people buy NADH?  I thought the whole benefit was from increasing NAD+ to NADH ratio, and that NADH supplements are counter-productive.

 

Are they (NADH pills)  just sold based on bad or outdated science?

[ryukenden]

Do you have Alivebynature coupon code? I like to buy 10 jars of NMN powder.

Many thanks

[aribadabar]

Do you have Alivebynature coupon code? I like to buy 10 jars of NMN powder.

Many thanks

 

TENOFFJULY2018 coupon code still works at the time of this post.

 

ABN also now have a 3-pack option:

https://alivebynatur...mononucleotide/

[ryukenden]

TENOFFJULY2018 coupon code still works at the time of this post.

ABN also now have a 3-pack option:
https://alivebynatur...mononucleotide/

Thank you. I bought 9 jars.

[Aak]

Hey i am new to this tab, also an aussie female as mentioned by another poster. Im thinking of starting NMN for the benefits but got a little concerned when a poster mentioned the tooth decay, i know she was placing directly to the teeth but my teeth arent great for my age (wish we could regrow enamel somehow). Has anyone else noticed any effects at all to their teeth or gums? Also is there any advice about any checke people should get before starting dosages? I would think people should all get cancer markers as giving more energy to a mutated cell in my opinion would not be beneficial overall but i could be totally wrong on the actual way this works in the body?? Lawrence are you able to direct message how you get your NMN or if your open to doing a bulk buy with others through here? 

[Harkijn]

I have taken 250mg/day of sublingual NMN tablets for some weeks but noticed that my gums and tongue felt 'raw' (as if I had eaten a salted anchovy). I stopped and it abated after a few days, I restarted and it came back. What's bad for the gums must be bad for the teeth.

I now grind the tablets to powder and mix that through yoghurt and when the tablets are finished I will return to exclusively NR.

[able]

Hey i am new to this tab, also an aussie female as mentioned by another poster. Im thinking of starting NMN for the benefits but got a little concerned when a poster mentioned the tooth decay, i know she was placing directly to the teeth but my teeth arent great for my age (wish we could regrow enamel somehow). Has anyone else noticed any effects at all to their teeth or gums? Also is there any advice about any checke people should get before starting dosages? I would think people should all get cancer markers as giving more energy to a mutated cell in my opinion would not be beneficial overall but i could be totally wrong on the actual way this works in the body?? Lawrence are you able to direct message how you get your NMN or if your open to doing a bulk buy with others through here? 

 

I take over 1,000 mg a day for over 5 months now and haven't noticed any problems with gums, but I mostly use the powder under the tongue.  

 

I don't understand why anyone would want to put it on the gums?  Supposed to be much less absorption that way.

 

There is the theory that since it aids blood vessel growth so much, increasing NAD could allow faster tumor growth.  But none of the studies on NR or NMN show any difference in mortality from cancer.  Sinclair has mentioned they saw 10% increase in lifespan in a study not yet published.

Edited by able, 10 September 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Gravitsapa]

Hey i am new to this tab, also an aussie female as mentioned by another poster. Im thinking of starting NMN for the benefits but got a little concerned when a poster mentioned the tooth decay, i know she was placing directly to the teeth but my teeth arent great for my age (wish we could regrow enamel somehow). Has anyone else noticed any effects at all to their teeth or gums?

Hey:)
It wasn't decay that I noticed. It was black plaque. It did came off with a bit of hard scrubbing.
I haven't had any issues with plaque since I switched to sublingual method. You just have to be careful not to accidentally drop any powder onto the teeth.

[Harkijn]

 

I don't understand why anyone would want to put it on the gums?  Supposed to be much less absorption that way.

 

 

I did put morsels of the tablets in various places of the mouth after posts about buccal absorption but anyway in the end one's total saliva will be saturated with whatever is in the tablets. It could very well be that the powder had not given me discomfort, because some binder in the tablet may not agree with me.

Edited by Harkijn, 10 September 2018 - 09:33 AM.

[bluemoon]

 

 

There is the theory that since it aids blood vessel growth so much, increasing NAD could allow faster tumor growth.  But none of the studies on NR or NMN show any difference in mortality from cancer.   

 

For what it's worth, I asked Charles Brenner about this at a Q&A after a talk he gave in late 2016. He was of course aware of the U of Washington study but said there was no cancer accelerator risk with taking NR. 

[renntenn]

alivebynature is the main distributor. They have both pure NMN powder and sublingual 

 

First time ever posting on this or any other forum so could use TONS of advice. 

 

How do you know that the alivebynature NMN is real? 

[renntenn]

Thank you. I bought 9 jars.

 

I could really use some help here. How do you know it is really NMN from one source or another? How do you know it is a real quality product and not just some fake powder or whatever? Thanks!

[able]

I could really use some help here. How do you know it is really NMN from one source or another? How do you know it is a real quality product and not just some fake powder or whatever? Thanks!

 

They send it out to 3 different outside labs to test, and post the lab reports on their website.  

[renntenn]

They send it out to 3 different outside labs to test, and post the lab reports on their website.  

 

Thanks for responding Able. 

 

1) Do you take NMN?

2) Where do you buy it from?

3) May I ask your NMN routine? (How much per day, How often, etc)

[able]

Thanks for responding Able. 

 

1) Do you take NMN?

2) Where do you buy it from?

3) May I ask your NMN routine? (How much per day, How often, etc)

 

I've been taking it close to a year now.  Was using the MAAC10 brand from Amazon, which seems effective, but they don't post a lab report.

 

I switched to the ABN powder around December 2017.  Was taking 250-500 mg a day in 2 dosages for some months.  I think around April or May I started taking more often.  

 

Taking the powder now around 6 times a day, and occasionally the tablets when I'm out of the house.  Total 1,000 to 1,500 a day.  

 

I've posted  a few times that I feel a bit sleepy if I do too much for too long, and seem to do a lot better if I take a day or 2 off, so have just gone with not taking it on weekends.  I really don't know why. It may just be that I don't sleep well if I take too much.

[Phoebus]

Thanks for responding Able. 

 

1) Do you take NMN?

2) Where do you buy it from?

3) May I ask your NMN routine? (How much per day, How often, etc)

 

if you go back to page 1 of this thread and peruse through some comments you will see various people's feedback on exactly these questions. 

 

For NMN most use ABN brand, its legit,  usually in the 250 mg - 500 mg/day dosage, though some do more. 

[renntenn]

I am a 45-year-old male. While I exercise 4-5 times a week, my diet is not so good and I am obese with a large belly. I weight 116 KG (260 pounds) and am 185 CM (72.5 inches) tall.

 

I joined this forum after learning about NMN and Dr. Sinclair. I intend to do some before (and after) blood work and start taking NMN in a few weeks once my online research is complete.

 

*Please note. I am new to forums and am not familiar with the protocols on what to say and where.

 

1) Where is the best place to buy NMN? And can I trust it is real?

2) What should my initial dosing routine be? And should I have a maintenance routine?

3) Should I cycle the NMN?

4) Should I also take metformin or resveratrol?

5) Besides change sin my blood work, how can I tell how it is working on me?

 

Thank you so much for giving this newb some help.

[male_1978]

I am a 45-year-old male. While I exercise 4-5 times a week, my diet is not so good and I am obese with a large belly. I weight 116 KG (260 pounds) and am 185 CM (72.5 inches) tall.

 

I joined this forum after learning about NMN and Dr. Sinclair. I intend to do some before (and after) blood work and start taking NMN in a few weeks once my online research is complete.

 

*Please note. I am new to forums and am not familiar with the protocols on what to say and where.

 

1) Where is the best place to buy NMN? And can I trust it is real?

2) What should my initial dosing routine be? And should I have a maintenance routine?

3) Should I cycle the NMN?

4) Should I also take metformin or resveratrol?

5) Besides change sin my blood work, how can I tell how it is working on me?

 

Thank you so much for giving this newb some help.

Hello, i can answer you some of your questions (i take NR, but its basically similar), but i am not a doctor.

 

2) Its not poisonous, so you can try out yourself, what feels good for you and what you can afford. Maybe start with 250 mg/day.

- If you dont do excercise this day, take it in the morning

- If you do excercise, take it right before excercise - it will help you.
- If you cant sleep well, take less. If you dont feel anything after a few days, take more.

 

3) There is an ongoing debate about this. It is known that the Nad+-Levels drop after using NMN or NR for a longer time, but the reason is unclear.
4) About Resveratrol and Metformin:
- Resveratrol seems to help by activating enzymes which create Nad+, similar to excercise. So yes, its probably a good idea.
- If you are overweight, Metformin probably helps to loose weight. In your situation i would probably take some every time you eat too much sugar.

 

5) Nad+ is involved in a lot of processes which keep you healthy. You might feel that you need less sleep, feel less tired, have more endurance, more sexual desire, loose a little weight, get less blood pressure and get better skin and hair. In general it seems to improve things which distinguish a young from an old person. 

[smithx]

Do you have any references for this? Worrisome if true, but I haven't seen it claimed before.

 

 It is known that the Nad+-Levels drop after using NMN or NR for a longer time, but the reason is unclear.

[LawrenceW]

Do you have any references for this? Worrisome if true, but I haven't seen it claimed before.

 

 

It is called a homeostasis.

 

Living cells can function only within a narrow range of such conditions as temperature, pH , ion concentrations, and nutrient availability, yet living organisms must survive in an environment where these and other conditions vary from hour to hour, day to day, and season to season. Organisms therefore require mechanisms for maintaining internal stability in spite of environmental change. 

The usual means of maintaining homeostasis is a general mechanism called a negative feedback loop. The body senses an internal change and activates mechanisms that reverse, or negate, that change.

Read more: http://www.biologyre...l#ixzz5RSKehJwq

 

Elysium was the first to publish the effects of homeostasis on their NR.  https://www.nature.c...017-0016-9.pdf They reported that a 250 mg per day dose of NR boosted whole blood NAD+ levels by 42% at day 30 and 40% at day 60. The 500 mg per day dose boosted whole blood NAD+ levels by 90% at day 30 and that boost dropped to 55% at day 60.  There has been speculation that if the test had continued until day 90 that the NAD+ boost from the 500 mg per day dose would also stabilize at around 40%.  Translated into real world experience, after homeostasis kicks in any dose over 250 mg per day of NR for the average weight person has minimal to no additional benefit.

 

 

Edited by LawrenceW, 18 September 2018 - 12:41 PM.

[Oakman]

It is called a homeostasis.

 

Living cells can function only within a narrow range of such conditions as temperature, pH , ion concentrations, and nutrient availability, yet living organisms must survive in an environment where these and other conditions vary from hour to hour, day to day, and season to season. Organisms therefore require mechanisms for maintaining internal stability in spite of environmental change. 

The usual means of maintaining homeostasis is a general mechanism called a negative feedback loop. The body senses an internal change and activates mechanisms that reverse, or negate, that change.

Read more: http://www.biologyre...l#ixzz5RSKehJwq

 

Elysium was the first to publish the effects of homeostasis on their NR.  https://www.nature.c...017-0016-9.pdf They reported that a 250 mg per day dose of NR boosted whole blood NAD+ levels by 42% at day 30 and 40% at day 60. The 500 mg per day dose boosted whole blood NAD+ levels by 90% at day 30 and that boost dropped to 55% at day 60.  There has been speculation that if the test had continued until day 90 that the NAD+ boost from the 500 mg per day dose would also stabilize at around 40%.  Translated into real world experience, after homeostasis kicks in any dose over 250 mg per day of NR for the average weight person has minimal to no additional benefit.

 

 

 

So where is the research that show this level of homeostasis happens when taking NMN?

[bluemoon]

   There has been speculation that if the test had continued until day 90 that the NAD+ boost from the 500 mg per day dose would also stabilize at around 40%.  Translated into real world experience, after homeostasis kicks in any dose over 250 mg per day of NR for the average weight person has minimal to no additional benefit.

 

 

 

 

We don't know that 40% is the top level of a stable boost so most likely instead of 250 mg being ideal for long term use, it is probably between 250 mg and 500 mg.  ChromaDex still hasn't published its 8 week study where people took 100 mg, 300 mg and 1,000 mg or a placebo.

[Heisok]

" It is known that the Nad+-Levels drop after using NMN or NR for a longer time, but the reason is unclear."

 

I also noticed this comment, and figured others would comment. With NR, the NAD+ levels have not been shown to decrease to below the levels prior to supplementation. This has not been shown with NMN, but I might be wrong.

 

In the Elysium study, NAD+ levels have not been shown to drop below baseline as measured at day 0. The levels were increased as measured at day 30. The levels were also higher than baseline at day 60, but lower than day 30.

 

 

"Our trial monitored NAD⁺ levels in whole blood at day 0 (baseline), day 30, and day 60. There was a robust 40% (NRPT 1X) and 90% (NRPT 2X) increase in NAD⁺ at day 30 over baseline, and this was fully sustained at day 60 in the NRPT 1X group and partially declined to 55% over baseline in the NRPT 2X group

 

https://www.nature.c...1514-017-0016-9