672 replies to this topic

[Brian Valerie]

Since this is a personal experience thread, I'll share my own N=1 trial that relates (I think) to homeostasis and off-cycling.  I have subjectively felt (yes, I know) more alertness, energy, and stamina when cycling off of NAD+ precursors for a couple of days every week of so.  I currently take 250 mg each of NMN and NR daily for about six or seven days, then cycle off of them for about two or three days.  The only more objective measurement I can offer is that in a comparison of "no melatonin nights" only, the average of my total hours of sleep has increased from about 6.5 to 7 hours (which obviously could account for the previously mentioned subjective improvements), subsequent to my adoption of this cycling protocol about three months ago.  I don't place much faith in anecdotal evidence, even my own, with its great susceptibility to the placebo effect and confounding variables, but until we have more empirical research evidence, I hope my personal experience is "informative" or at least thought provoking for some of you.  For a further discussion of cycling, please see the "Cycling Protocols for NAD+ Precursors" thread in the NAD+ sub-forum.

Edited by Brian Valerie, 18 September 2018 - 06:11 PM.

[Siriom]

Hi

Im new here . Can someone please tell me where you guys are getting 500mg and 750mg doses ? all I find are 150 ...

Which vendor would be the most trusted ?

Thanks.

 

[Oakman]

Hi

Im new here . Can someone please tell me where you guys are getting 500mg and 750mg doses ? all I find are 150 ...

Which vendor would be the most trusted ?

Thanks.

 

Here's one place 12 gram tubs https://www.longecit...-discount-code/

[Phoebus]

anyone know if NMN is stable in gatorade? 

 

I put a bit in my gatorade then sipped that for a few hours. Felt great! loved it as a way of taking small doses over a several hours instead of a large dose all at once 

 

just wondering if the NMN would be stable in a glucose liquid like gatorade? 

[TRUGAN]

Boosting NAD+ may be dangerous for people with Parkinson's. It seems strange that it would exacerbate neuro diseases. I believe they used NR and not NMN but they both boost NAD+. I only bring it up in case someone in here has Parkinson's and maybe you've declined since taking NR or NMN. 

 

https://onlinelibrar....1111/jnc.14599

 

[able]

Boosting NAD+ may be dangerous for people with Parkinson's. It seems strange that it would exacerbate neuro diseases. I believe they used NR and not NMN but they both boost NAD+. I only bring it up in case someone in here has Parkinson's and maybe you've declined since taking NR or NMN. 

 

https://onlinelibrar....1111/jnc.14599

 

This was Nicotinamide, not NR or NMN.

[TRUGAN]

This was Nicotinamide, not NR or NMN

 

 

 

Sorry...thanks for pointing that out.

[Rays]

I just came across a product that is being developed for inhaling vitamins. If that works, could we use it for inhaling NMN or NADH/NAD+?

Inhaling would increase bio-availability, right?

When you vaporize a solution will the NMN/NAD stay behind, or will it still be dissolved in the gas?

 

Vitamin Air: 

https://www.indiegog...n-your-vitamins

 

[Phoebus]

 

I just came across a product that is being developed for inhaling vitamins. If that works, could we use it for inhaling NMN or NADH/NAD+?

Inhaling would increase bio-availability, right?

When you vaporize a solution will the NMN/NAD stay behind, or will it still be dissolved in the gas?

 

Vitamin Air: 

https://www.indiegog...n-your-vitamins

 

 

 

NMN readily dissolves in water and could easily be delivered to the lungs with a nebulilzer (avaiable on amazon)

 

question is...is that a good idea? I have no clue 

 

NAD+ is also water soluble for that matter 

 

Just watched the video in your link. Vitamin D...delivered direct to your lungs? Really? Is that a good idea? 

Edited by Phoebus, 17 October 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[midas]

 

I have to believe that Brenner has tested NMN/NAD on himself and if the results were poor, he and chromadex would be touting it.

 

Brenner and Chromadex have nothing to do with NMN.......NR is their thing.

Maybe read my last post again?

[able]

Dr Sinclair completed the Phase 1 testing of NMN in humans, but has not published results yet, so we don't know how much it elevated NAD+ and how they measured it.

 

They have already been approved for phase 2 testing and are supposed to be starting that this fall.  So it clearly had some effect, else they wouldn't be moving forward so quickly.

 

It seems strange to me that they could move forward before they publish phase 1 results.  Is that because he has so much clout in the field?  Are they doing that to keep the results quiet as long as possible, until he is ready to launch his commercial product?

[TRUGAN]

What is supposed to be different about Sinclairs NMN than what we get?

[able]

Monica at ABN told me their source also supplied the NMN for the research published earlier this year, but she wouldn't divulge the name of the company, so I don't know how that can be verified.

 

The difference is, Sinclair is combining it with Hydrogen Sulfide to make it more effective (and patentable).   I believe that is what they used in the Phase 1 trial, but they are quite vague about it.

 

In interviews, he is claiming to give his father 750 mg of NMN a day, with no mention of the H2S, so who knows.  

 

Of course, he has to be very careful about recommending anything, even if he wanted to divulge secrets.

[XRT doc]

Brenner and Chromadex have nothing to do with NMN.......NR is their thing.

Maybe read my last post again?

 

that's exactly my point : if nmn had poor availability, they would be telling everyone because they are competitors.

Edited by XRT doc, 18 October 2018 - 01:02 PM.

[Phoebus]

What is supposed to be different about Sinclairs NMN than what we get?

 

NMN is not patentable and therefore not profitable. 

 

you must make a "novel" compound to get a patent. So naturally the Sinclair group is going to alter the NMN in such a way as to make it novel. So after he begged the community for 30k for a rat study he and his compatriots will walk with millions and millions and millions in profits when this is all said and done. 

 

Will it be legit better than regular old NMN? will it be prescription only? will it be stupidly expensive?  who bleeping knows? 

[bluemoon]

Brenner and Chromadex have nothing to do with NMN.......NR is their thing.

 

 

This is not correct. Brenner has coauthored at least one paper on the positive effect of NMN on mice that have had a type of brain injury.

[Harkijn]

Sometimes you'd think that taking NADprecursors makes people prone to conspiracy theories. In the real world both Brenner and Sinclair have been balanced and fair in what they said about NAM,NMN,NR. The worst thing Sinclair was 'telling everybody '  about NR was that it should be stored in the fridge  .

[midas]

This is not correct. Brenner has coauthored at least one paper on the positive effect of NMN on mice that have had a type of brain injury.

 

I've not seen that, any chance of a link please?

[Phoebus]

I've not seen that, any chance of a link please?

 

 

this one maybe? 

 

but brenner was not involved 

 

https://www.nature.c...598-017-00851-z

 

Nicotinamide mononucleotide attenuates brain injury after intracerebral hemorrhage by activating Nrf2/HO-1 signaling pathway

 

Here are al this papers. Side references to NMN, but doesn't look like he has actually used NMN as the main ingredient in any of his studies. Its all NR stuff. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. 

 

https://medicine.uio...charles-brenner

Edited by Phoebus, 18 October 2018 - 07:23 PM.

[Harkijn]

Maybe Bluemoon was thinking of this recent paper. It is not about NMN supplementation but about endogenous formation. It is so complicated (for me) that it will take   me some time to fully fathom it.

http://www.pnas.org/...ab-figures-data

Edited by Harkijn, 19 October 2018 - 07:17 AM.

[bluemoon]

Maybe Bluemoon was thinking of this recent paper. It is not about NMN supplementation but about endogenous formation. It is so complicated (for me) that it will take   me some time to fully fathom it.

http://www.pnas.org/...ab-figures-data

 

I'm pretty sue that is the one. I also remember Brenner's name was toward the end as it is here.

[Dstein]

Maybe Bluemoon was thinking of this recent paper. It is not about NMN supplementation but about endogenous formation. It is so complicated (for me) that it will take   me some time to fully fathom it.

http://www.pnas.org/...ab-figures-data

 

This is a very interesting article. The bottom line is that the nad+ precursor nicotinic acid riboside (NAR) may be safer to use than  NR or NMN.

[Harkijn]

Hi all, by posting the reference to this study I inadvertently diverted your attention from personal experiences. 

 

To make amends I just opened a new topic where the publication  can be discussed and I hope you will contribute about it over there. I uploaded the full text so everyone can judge for himself, also about the research sponsoring.

@Smithx: I have followed your math and references and can't found fault with them( though I am not a biochemist at all), but I hope you will repost your argument in the new thread so more members can contribute!

Edited by Harkijn, 20 October 2018 - 03:40 PM.

[Michael]

First, I've moved the recent posts on sublingual NMN into the sublingual NR and NMN thread, and the posts on NMN and chemo-induced Wallerian degeneration into that thread.
 

 

Boosting NAD+ may be dangerous for people with Parkinson's. It seems strange that it would exacerbate neuro diseases. I believe they used NR and not NMN but they both boost NAD+. I only bring it up in case someone in here has Parkinson's and maybe you've declined since taking NR or NMN.

https://onlinelibrar....1111/jnc.14599

This was Nicotinamide, not NR or NMN.

 

True, but of course, metabolism of NR and NMN leads to elevated levels of NAM as a byproduct, with levels increasing steeply at higher doses. Indeed, it's clear now that the great majority of the NAD+ elevation in tissues outside of the liver from NR or NMN comes from metabolism of NR- or NMN-derived NAM released into the circulation from the liver, and it's still true (albeit less so) after NR/NMN injection.

[TRUGAN]

Monica at ABN told me their source also supplied the NMN for the research published earlier this year, but she wouldn't divulge the name of the company, so I don't know how that can be verified.

 

The difference is, Sinclair is combining it with Hydrogen Sulfide to make it more effective (and patentable).   I believe that is what they used in the Phase 1 trial, but they are quite vague about it.

 

In interviews, he is claiming to give his father 750 mg of NMN a day, with no mention of the H2S, so who knows.  

 

Of course, he has to be very careful about recommending anything, even if he wanted to divulge secrets.

 

Did he mention if it was 750mg all at once?

[bluemoon]

Did he mention if it was 750mg all at once?

 

He has said before he takes supplements at breakfast. Of course, he could always change. Two years ago Sinclair said his father was taking 500 mg of MNM a day as reported in the Daily Mail article.

Edited by bluemoon, 21 October 2018 - 06:12 AM.

[NaHanyate]

Hello everybody. I am a new member. I am a 57 year old male. I started taking NMN around 19th September 2018. I purchased it from ABN.
1st week - was taking 2x200mg powder = 400mg total/day.
2nd week onwards - was taking 3x200mg powder = 600mg total/day.
Last week - have been taking the sublingual tablets - 6x125mg = 750mg total/day.
This week - have been taking the sublingual tablets - 7x125mg = 875mg/day.

My questions:
1) What is your opinion about stopping 1 or more days a week? I found that the initial perceptible feeling of energy is not there, although I feel that I can easily do everything much easier a than before - bend down to pick something up, climb stairs etc.
2) I started with sublingual powder. Is that what was making the difference?
3) Any side effects from having NMN under your tongue twice every day?
4) I am 175 lbs - is 875 too little/too much?

[TRUGAN]

So, NMN is toxic to neurons? I dont take NMN but I thought it was supposed to be neuroprotective. I think the link below is the same as the one above that I couldn't view. Has anyone looked into switching to NAR, if it's available?

 

 

 

https://dailyiowan.c...erapy-patients/

Edited by mrwhitee, 30 October 2018 - 07:20 AM.

[able]

That study shows in chemotherapy patients with damage to mitochondria, the buildup of NMN inside of cells is a problem.

 

Dr Brenner is deceptively implying that it is exogenous NMN.  

 

He also says NR is neuroprotective.  Ignoring that fact that NR -> NMN -> NAD.  So if exogenous NMN was a problem, exogenous NR would do the exact same thing.

 

Also, he always says NMN must convert to NR to enter the cell.  So again, how does NMN supplementation cause a problem, when NR does not?

 

From the study itself:

 

"However, elevating NMN was not sufficient to cause axon degeneration, as neurons treated with NAR and NMNsyn displayed an elevation in NMN but did not degenerate."

 

 

 

 

This thread was already derailed once by this topic, and Micheal moved the discussion over to  this thread.

 

NAR is not available anywhere yet.

 

 

 

 

[able]

Hello everybody. I am a new member. I am a 57 year old male. I started taking NMN around 19th September 2018. I purchased it from ABN.
1st week - was taking 2x200mg powder = 400mg total/day.
2nd week onwards - was taking 3x200mg powder = 600mg total/day.
Last week - have been taking the sublingual tablets - 6x125mg = 750mg total/day.
This week - have been taking the sublingual tablets - 7x125mg = 875mg/day.

My questions:
1) What is your opinion about stopping 1 or more days a week? I found that the initial perceptible feeling of energy is not there, although I feel that I can easily do everything much easier a than before - bend down to pick something up, climb stairs etc.
2) I started with sublingual powder. Is that what was making the difference?
3) Any side effects from having NMN under your tongue twice every day?
4) I am 175 lbs - is 875 too little/too much?

 

#1 I noticed myself, and many comments from others that  the initial increase in energy seems to fade and its hard to tell if you just got used to the "new normal" energy.

 

#2 - do you believe you are getting more effect from the powder vs same quantity of the tablets?  

 

 

#4 - No-one know how much is optimal.  Older, sicker people likely benefit from higher dosages.   I'm about to turn 60 and in good health overall. I find more than 1,500 mg a day makes me a bit drowsy - likely from overstimulation affecting my sleep.  I do notice  1,000 mg is better for me than 500 mg.  More energy, less joint pain, improved endurance.

Edited by able, 30 October 2018 - 04:22 PM.