672 replies to this topic

[LawrenceW]

One persons word, that's all we have here. No science and nothing we can check to see if any of it is true...I'm not even slightly convinced.

 

 

Fredrik.

 

In Post #3 of this thread I posted

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#3LawrenceW

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:30 PM

Midas,

 

I have been tracking my blood tests for many years.  Comparing one test against the next is nice, but being able to track trends over many years is much better. Please see attached.

 

The April 2015 column is my baseline for NMN.  Jan. 2016 is after taking NMN for 6 months. 

 

  LW Lab results.xls   51.5KB   90 downloads

 

 

 

I know that this is not the double blind placebo study that you are looking for, but my doctor and I were very happy with the results that showed up in my blood work.

[bluemoon]

 

 

I know that this is not the double blind placebo study that you are looking for, but my doctor and I were very happy with the results that showed up in my blood work.

 

Your cholesterol numbers improved but where fine before you took NMN. What improvements am I missing?

[LawrenceW]

Your cholesterol numbers improved but where fine before you took NMN. What improvements am I missing?

 

Hello Bluemoon.

 

Starting from the top.

 

BUN When your kidneys are not healthy, they have trouble removing BUN and leave more of it in your blood.   My BUN improved by 50% by dropping from 14 to 7.

 

Glomerular filtration rate (GFR) is a measure of the function of the kidneys. This test measures the level of creatinine in the blood and uses the result in a formula to calculate a number that reflects how well the kidneys are functioning, called the estimated GFR or eGFR. The higher the number the better your kidney is functioning. If your number drops below 60 it is time to see your doctor. My eGFR increased from 74.4 to 93. An approximate 25% improvement of my kidney functions.

 

If your bilirubin levels are higher than normal, it’s a sign that either your red blood cells are breaking down at an unusual rate or that your liver isn’t breaking down waste properly and clearing the bilirubin from your blood. My Bilirubin number improved 37% by dropping from 1.6 to 1.0.

 

The HgB A1C test is a common blood test used to diagnose type 1 and type 2 diabetes and to monitor how well you're managing your diabetes. 5.6 and lower is normal. 5.7 to 6.4 is considered to be pre-diabetic. 6.5 and above is considered diabetic. My HgB A1C dropped from a pre-diabetic 6.0 to a high normal of 5.6.

 

As you noted, my cholesterol numbers had always been pretty good and within normal ranges.  They all improved somewhat. 

 

Cardiac risk of 3.03 to 5.37 is considered to be in the normal range. Mine was an already low risk of 1.92 but dropped to an extremely low risk of 1.26. As my doctor commented “I now have less risk of a heart attack than a 20-year-old.”

 

Testosterone increased 47% from 227 to 335.

 

I was 58 at the time of these tests. I firmly believe that I now have a much healthier body and I also believe that my body is functioning like a much younger version of myself.

[PAMPAGUY]

Fredrik.

 

In Post #3 of this thread I posted

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#3LawrenceW

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 03:30 PM

Midas,

 

I have been tracking my blood tests for many years.  Comparing one test against the next is nice, but being able to track trends over many years is much better. Please see attached.

 

The April 2015 column is my baseline for NMN.  Jan. 2016 is after taking NMN for 6 months. 

 

  LW Lab results.xls   51.5KB   90 downloads

 

 

 

I know that this is not the double blind placebo study that you are looking for, but my doctor and I were very happy with the results that showed up in my blood work.

 

[PAMPAGUY]

You are at the age where you will benefit from taking Rapamycin. (60+) I'm 72 and have been taking 6 mg once weekly for over 2 years and saw a big improvement in my blood test and weight.  See:  https://rapamycintherapy.com/ and https://www.aging-us...le/101647/text.

[Andey]

 

  LW Lab results.xls   51.5KB   90 downloads

 

 

 

I know that this is not the double blind placebo study that you are looking for, but my doctor and I were very happy with the results that showed up in my blood work.

 

 

Do you have thalassemia? Your MCV is low and HBA1c high while fasting blood glucose is normal which suggests something funky(in a good sense) going on.

Your Homocysteine is high, meaning that the methylation cycle went out of whack, and it could be addressed pretty easily with active forms of B vitamins. 

 

Sorry for highjacking the topic)

Edited by Andey, 10 February 2019 - 09:32 AM.

[bluemoon]

 ....

....

As you noted, my cholesterol numbers had always been pretty good and within normal ranges.  They all improved somewhat. 

 

Cardiac risk of 3.03 to 5.37 is considered to be in the normal range. Mine was an already low risk of 1.92 but dropped to an extremely low risk of 1.26. As my doctor commented “I now have less risk of a heart attack than a 20-year-old.”

 

Testosterone increased 47% from 227 to 335.

 

I was 58 at the time of these tests. I firmly believe that I now have a much healthier body and I also believe that my body is functioning like a much younger version of myself.

 

Thanks for this added information from your previous post.

 

I didn't consider the 6.0 to 5.6 drop that large but maybe I was wrong.

 

Your glucose level didn't change much. 

 

I thought your testosterone went from low normal to a bit higher low normal so didn't think much of it but can see how that might be good news - I don't know much about it.

 

As for the heart attack risk, I already thought you were at very low risk. I'm not sure the drop moves you to "extremely low risk", though (or you already were at extremely low risk.)   

Edited by bluemoon, 10 February 2019 - 03:26 PM.

[LawrenceW]

I thought your testosterone went from low normal to a bit higher low normal so didn't think much of it but can see how that might be good news - I don't know much about it.

 

 

 

After starting the NMN supplementation I noticed a nice increase of the pep in my step.  All of the males in our group have reported a 100 to 200 point increase in their testosterone levels. The guys with low baseline levels of testosterone all noticed a marked increase in the pep of their step or alternately described as the NMN kicking in. The guys with high baseline levels of testosterone barely noticed any change to their pep and didn't have the sensation of the NMN kicking in. 

 

I personally attribute my boost in energy to the increase of my testosterone.

[bluemoon]

After starting the NMN supplementation I noticed a nice increase of the pep in my step.  All of the males in our group have reported a 100 to 200 point increase in their testosterone levels. The guys with low baseline levels of testosterone all noticed a marked increase in the pep of their step or alternately described as the NMN kicking in. The guys with high baseline levels of testosterone barely noticed any change to their pep and didn't have the sensation of the NMN kicking in. 

 

I personally attribute my boost in energy to the increase of my testosterone.

 

Well, you know more about this than I do and the boost from higher testorone makes sense based on what I've heard of people whose levels are too low then increase.

 

It looks like NMN is helping, although I don't see it with glucose levels. By the way, is everyone in your group taking the same amount of NMN? Have you been at 1,000 mg of NMN or less for a while?

[LawrenceW]

 

It looks like NMN is helping, although I don't see it with glucose levels. By the way, is everyone in your group taking the same amount of NMN? Have you been at 1,000 mg of NMN or less for a while?

 

Glucose around 90 is an acceptable level at my age.  My problem is that I felt kind of invincible so I started snacking on my favorite sweets.

 

In the group, I am the lead guinea pig.  I will try the different regimen first.  If I still like the results after the 1st month (no arthritis) then I distribute that dose, activator or application method to 5 of my buddies. At the end of 3 months and if all 6 of us and the blood tests are good, then the new dose, activator or application method is offered to the group.

[GABAergic]

so did you guys get nicotinamide mononucleotide from alivebynature? they seem to promote themselves as the best most prominent NAD enhancer. i just want to finally checkmate them and see how true they really are.

[LawrenceW]

so did you guys get nicotinamide mononucleotide from alivebynature? they seem to promote themselves as the best most prominent NAD enhancer. i just want to finally checkmate them and see how true they really are.

 

 

We have our NMN made by a U.S. eGMP lab.  We had a delivery issue about a year ago and I ended up buying from ABN. To avoid future delivery issues, I currently have 5.5 kgs of 99.2% purity NMN chilling in my -20 degree Celsius deep freeze.

[Aak]

Id just like to thank lawrence for posting this personal thread post and seriously i cant believe people are trying to shame his efforts of sharing his story. He has multiple times posted his blood work but and a few people have added their own experiences, and hes not telling anyone to buy anything its their own choice. I am yet to take my NMN which i did get on back order from ABN but i found out i was pregnant and im not willing to be a guinea pig of trying this pregnant as the risk it could pose to my baby isnt worth it. I have been keeping mine in the cupboard as i read on the website its not needed to be refridgerated but now im thinking i shoudl deep freeze it? I am also in Australia so its quite hot.. Might already be spoilt? 

What id love to know is how to use activators such as the ones people have mentioned h2s and hydrogen peroxide? its mentioned people have put a few drops in water of hydrogen peroxide and swallowed prior to taking NMN but where did they get the pure Hydrogen peroxide to dilute? Just wanting to make sure i can get dosages and get the most out of my experience and then i will also report my personal findings/experiences on this thread in the future. Thanks again everyone this topic and thread is very insightful and at the end of the day it cant hurt in my opinion to tr a little NMN and see what effects i notice/feel and if i dont notice a difference its not much time wasted and not much money as a trial in my opinion

 

[Phoebus]

 I am yet to take my NMN which i did get on back order from ABN but i found out i was pregnant and im not willing to be a guinea pig of trying this pregnant as the risk it could pose to my baby isnt worth it. I have been keeping mine in the cupboard as i read on the website its not needed to be refridgerated but now im thinking i shoudl deep freeze it? I am also in Australia so its quite hot.. Might already be spoilt? 

 

 

I keep all my supplement in the frig or freezer. Why not? Everything breaks down over time and/or can get invaded by mold. So yes I would at least put it in the frig. 

 

Also given that you are pregnant you may not be in the optimal age range to benefit from NR/NMN, but who knows? you might get benefits. 

[bluemoon]

LawrenceW won't say how much NMN he takes. Why? 

[LawrenceW]

LawrenceW won't say how much NMN he takes. Why? 

 

 

Hello Bluemoon.  

 

Apparently you missed this from post #267 of this very thread.

 

"I have now started on what I believe will be my personal maximum benefits for minimum NMN dosing regimen. 400 mg of oral NMN with the activator twice per day interspersed with sublingual NMN 6 times per day.  I will be going in for my full blood test after 3 months of this regimen.  I will post the results when I receive them."

 

I am still on this regimen and going in for my annual physical and blood tests in early March.  

[AlbertN]

 

"I have now started on what I believe will be my personal maximum benefits for minimum NMN dosing regimen. 400 mg of oral NMN with the activator twice per day interspersed with sublingual NMN 6 times per day.  I will be going in for my full blood test after 3 months of this regimen.  I will post the results when I receive them."

 

I am still on this regimen and going in for my annual physical and blood tests in early March.  

 

Lawrence,  

 

Back at post #350, you say that 8-10 doses of 30 mg of sublingual NMN is about the same at 1000 mg taken orally.  Given your regimen above, you must think that 1000 mg orally is not enough and that something closer to 1500 mg might be better.  I assume that you need the extra oral dosage because there is a limit how much can be absorbed sublingually.  Furthermore I assume that you're are doing the sublingual method to save money and that 1500 mg orally would give the same effect.  Finally how did you arrive at 1500 mg?  Are you just playing around to see what effects different dosages have?

[LawrenceW]

Lawrence,  

 

Back at post #350, you say that 8-10 doses of 30 mg of sublingual NMN is about the same at 1000 mg taken orally.  Given your regimen above, you must think that 1000 mg orally is not enough and that something closer to 1500 mg might be better.  I assume that you need the extra oral dosage because there is a limit how much can be absorbed sublingually.  Furthermore I assume that you're are doing the sublingual method to save money and that 1500 mg orally would give the same effect.  Finally how did you arrive at 1500 mg?  Are you just playing around to see what effects different dosages have?

 

I am continuing with my experimenting.  My upcoming blood test will show me whether I am still getting full benefits from this hybrid approach. If the numbers come in at full benefits, then I will be experimenting with a lower dose. I personally believe that my current hybrid regimen is a bit of overkill on the dosing.

[Phoebus]

Hello Bluemoon.  

 

Apparently you missed this from post #267 of this very thread.

 

"I have now started on what I believe will be my personal maximum benefits for minimum NMN dosing regimen. 400 mg of oral NMN with the activator twice per day interspersed with sublingual NMN 6 times per day.  I will be going in for my full blood test after 3 months of this regimen.  I will post the results when I receive them."

 

I am still on this regimen and going in for my annual physical and blood tests in early March.  

 

 

hold on, so how much total NMN are you taking per day altogether? 

[LawrenceW]

hold on, so how much total NMN are you taking per day altogether? 

 

 

I take 400 mg orally by capsule twice per day plus 30 mg sublinguals 6 times per day for a grand total of 980 mg per day. The activator is in the oral NMN capsules that I take twice per day.

[Phoebus]

I take 400 mg orally by capsule twice per day plus 30 mg sublinguals 6 times per day for a grand total of 980 mg per day. The activator is in the oral NMN capsules that I take twice per day.

 

 

okay, so you are doing about the same dose Sinclair does every day. Sounds good. 

 

Which activator are you referring to and how does it get into the capsules? 

[bluemoon]

hold on, so how much total NMN are you taking per day altogether? 

 

Right. This was my question since it wasn't clear to me but now it is.

 

 Sinclair only recently raised his dose to 1,000 mg after a few years at 500 mg. With NR, we know that for healthy people 250 mg boosts  NAD+ 40% in healthy 50 to 79 year olds and that 500 mg raises NAD+ more in the beginning before dropping to 40% to 55% (the Elysium study doesn't make this clear since it only went on for 8 weeks. Now Chromadex recommends 300 mg of NR a day.

 

It will be nice to get similar data with NMN.   

[midas]

Right. This was my question since it wasn't clear to me but now it is.

 

 Sinclair only recently raised his dose to 1,000 mg after a few years at 500 mg. With NR, we know that for healthy people 250 mg boosts  NAD+ 40% in healthy 50 to 79 year olds and that 500 mg raises NAD+ more in the beginning before dropping to 40% to 55% (the Elysium study doesn't make this clear since it only went on for 8 weeks. Now Chromadex recommends 300 mg of NR a day.

 

It will be nice to get similar data with NMN.   

 

Thats my main issue with NMN, we have no evidence how much it boosts NAD if at all and at what dosage...??

 

To be honest I find this lack of info quite disconcerting at this stage..

[able]

Thats my main issue with NMN, we have no evidence how much it boosts NAD if at all and at what dosage...??

 

To be honest I find this lack of info quite disconcerting at this stage..

 

True, we don't have any studies published YET, but Dr Sinclairs company, metrobiotech, has completed Phase 1 studies that they say shows increase NAD+ in human.

 

"Metro International Biotech has conducted multiple IRB-approved human safety and bioavailability trials at a prominent Boston hospital, which demonstrated MIB-626 is well tolerated in healthy human volunteer subjects and raises blood levels of NAD+ and related metabolites."

 

 

 

https://www.metrobiotech.com/pipeline/

 

I can't imagine they can actually lie about "raises blood levels of NAD+"  without extreme legal jeopardy.  

 

It will be great to get some of the details, but perhaps they want to keep some of that quiet for now while they pursue patents and such.

 

Also notice they plan to file IND's for Frederichs Ataxia and Mitochondria Myopathy this summer and begin Phase 2 testing.  Does that mean then will have to share the Phase 1 results then, if not before?  

 

Metro International Biotech intends to file an IND in mid-2019 for Phase 2 trials in Frederich’s Ataxia.

 

Metro International Biotech intends to file an IND in mid-2019 for Phase 2 trials in mitochondrial myopathy.

 

Edited by able, 13 February 2019 - 06:11 AM.

[GABAergic]

ok for people who are taking this regularly and have been doing so for extended period of time, how can you be sure its working? is there any way you can sense feel it or see the difference? it seems so subtle that for companies it can be easy to just scam people over it. its like resveratrol i was taking before, i never felt a thing but the company kept saying i should take it for a year to notice a difference. im like, yeah right. i can feel difference much faster in healthy eating for example why bother spending so much money on sugar pills??

[bluemoon]

  i can feel difference much faster in healthy eating for example why bother spending so much money on sugar pills??

 

Then do that.

 

Nobody is  telling you to take sugar pills.

[Ducky-001]

ok for people who are taking this regularly and have been doing so for extended period of time, how can you be sure its working? is there any way you can sense feel it or see the difference? it seems so subtle that for companies it can be easy to just scam people over it. its like resveratrol i was taking before, i never felt a thing but the company kept saying i should take it for a year to notice a difference. im like, yeah right. i can feel difference much faster in healthy eating for example why bother spending so much money on sugar pills??

 

I have been doing sublingual NMN for about 3 weeks now. There is no question that it has an effect. The increase in energy is immediate when taking a scoop ( around 100 mg). I take around 5-6 scoops a day, and have still a lot left in the first 12g powder container from ABN. I doubt that this is the optimal amount, but for sure it's working. 

[GABAergic]

is that its main purpose, energy? i thought its suppose to delay aging somehow and support organs in various positive ways, but i suppose thats not something you can feel. what about cognition, mood beyond just energy?

[LawrenceW]

is that its main purpose, energy? i thought its suppose to delay aging somehow and support organs in various positive ways, but i suppose thats not something you can feel. what about cognition, mood beyond just energy?

 

Hello GABAergic.

 

Please reread post #1 of this thread to recap all the benefits that I couldn't feel but that did show up in my blood work. 

 

Do you actually take NMN?  I ask, because if you did, you wouldn't be asking these questions, as you would already have experienced all this for yourself.

[TRUGAN]

True, we don't have any studies published YET, but Dr Sinclairs company, metrobiotech, has completed Phase 1 studies that they say shows increase NAD+ in human.

 

 

https://www.metrobiotech.com/pipeline/

 

I can't imagine they can actually lie about "raises blood levels of NAD+"  without extreme legal jeopardy.  

 

It will be great to get some of the details, but perhaps they want to keep some of that quiet for now while they pursue patents and such.

 

Also notice they plan to file IND's for Frederichs Ataxia and Mitochondria Myopathy this summer and begin Phase 2 testing.  Does that mean then will have to share the Phase 1 results then, if not before?  

 

 

This is the first I've heard about this company. So he found another compound to increase NAD+. I suppose this will be prescription only and probably as expensive as hell?