672 replies to this topic

[Heisok]

Able, are you still following a Keto way of eating?

 

If so, how much of the gain is water, and maybe even inflammation in addition to some fat? Then the loss could be the water loss, some inflamation decrease and fat loss? I also see an increase in inflammation when I add dairy even if being strict Keto. I can feel it in stiffness in my hands, and an apparant increase around the belly.

[MJC73]

I honestly don't think it's the placebo effect as whilst I'm lifting heavier so doing more volume, my workout time (45mins, which is bound by my work lunchhour) hasn't changed and neither has the frequency (twice a week with perhaps the additional one 20mins cardio session being the only change). I have not changed my diet in anyway (I currently try to not eat between 8pm and 12 noon during the week but otherwise eat whatever I want and follow no particular diet so if I want a couple of croissants on the weekend with my full fat latte I'll do so) 

 

My body does respond well to increasing exercise workload though - I did a bodyforlife 9 week challenge some years back where I lost 12kgs working on a 6 day program of  and I got quite good at identifying how my body disposes of body fat in these situations. I lose bodyfat from the top down - first from the collarbones down through the ribs with the hips the last place to respond. I know the number of ribs I can see increases as the bodyfat % falls. The amount of fat around my mid-section has decreased markedly to the point where the 'love handles' that I had have almost disappeared. 

 

To me the fat loss appears higher than I would have expected based on the exercise volume on it's own. 

 

 

 

[bluemoon]

I agree it is difficult to believe there could be a big fat loss from the NMN by itself.  

 

But he does say he has more energy and has been working out more.

 

I am quite regular in my eating and exercise, but even I can see a noticeable difference over 2 weeks of excess eating over the holidays, or 2 weeks of eating less and exercising more after the holidays.  Not like a "before and after" photo, but noticeable.

 

My question is, would you call it  a placebo effect, if you get a little more energy or feel a bit stronger,  and that inspires you to exercise more?    

 

The additional exercise and increased motivation may be responsible for most benefits, but perhaps that was initiated due to a supplement.

 

The problem is that we don't have before and after fat percentages, which wouldn't have been that hard to get if thought of before taking NMN. I could be wrong, but I don't think those who start NMN will see much change in body fat after 12 days. 30 days or 6 weeks sounds much more plausible.  

[LawrenceW]

The problem is that we don't have before and after fat percentages, which wouldn't have been that hard to get if thought of before taking NMN. I could be wrong, but I don't think those who start NMN will see much change in body fat after 12 days. 30 days or 6 weeks sounds much more plausible.  

 

I began taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) on July 15, 2015.  From my records back then:  "When I first started taking NMN, I immediately noticed a slight increase in energy. My weight beginning to drop within a couple of days. Within weeks I felt that I was shedding belly fat and noticed a visible flattening of my tummy."

 

It appears that MJC73's initial experience with NMN lines up with my initial experience with NMN. 

[AlbertN]

I take 3 drops of 35% per day diluted in 6 to 8 ounces of water.

 

Does the concentration matter or is it just the amount?  For example would I get the same effect from taking 3 drops of 35% H202 diluted in a quart of water?

[LawrenceW]

Does the concentration matter or is it just the amount?  For example would I get the same effect from taking 3 drops of 35% H202 diluted in a quart of water?

 

Correct.  Let me rephrase. 3 drops of food grade 35% hydrogen peroxide diluted in a minimum of 4 ounces of water.  Add more water to make it more palatable.

Edited by LawrenceW, 07 March 2019 - 09:03 PM.

[MJC73]

I was observing my body last night and it is significantly changed beyond what I have seen through previous exercise efforts and in line with the time 7 years ago when I did the body-for-life 6 day split weights program with 3-4 days of weights and 20mins of HIIT cardio every second day. My muscles are fuller and more developed and my bodyfat is diminished well beyond what I would have expected from the effort I have put in. 

 

To be fair I was not expecting this effect, my intention of starting the NMN was just to arrest any further aging but I feel like my body has become significantly more responsive to exercise than before I started taking it.

 

[bluemoon]

I began taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) on July 15, 2015.  From my records back then:  "When I first started taking NMN, I immediately noticed a slight increase in energy. My weight beginning to drop within a couple of days. Within weeks I felt that I was shedding belly fat and noticed a visible flattening of my tummy."

 

It appears that MJC73's initial experience with NMN lines up with my initial experience with NMN. 

 

You took the time to get blood tests but didn't record your weight?

[bluemoon]

  My muscles are fuller and more developed and my bodyfat is diminished well beyond what I would have expected from the effort I have put in. 

 

To be fair I was not expecting this effect, my intention of starting the NMN was just to arrest any further aging but I feel like my body has become significantly more responsive to exercise than before I started taking it.

 

We should expect NMN to crush NR sales in a few months just by word of mouth.

[LawrenceW]

You took the time to get blood tests but didn't record your weight?

 

 

Hello Bluemoon.

 

Is the attached file detailed enough for you?

Attached Files

•  LW NMN Log.docx   72.34KB   37 downloads

Edited by LawrenceW, 09 March 2019 - 03:52 AM.

[bluemoon]

Hello Bluemoon.

 

Is the attached file detailed enough for you?

 

I don't think your weight loss or blood test results are impressive at all. Then again, you are just one person so a trial with NMN may show something. I'm not ruling that possibility out.

[LawrenceW]

I don't think your weight loss or blood test results are impressive at all. 

 

 

A loss of 20 pounds of fat and replacing that with 10 pounds of muscle without changing diet or workout routine was noticed and commented on by my friends, family and neighbors. 

 

My doctor is very happy with my blood work.

 

As a 61 year old I am very happy with the physiological state that my body has transformed into over the past 3 and 1/2 years of NMN.

[Chrys]

LawrenceW - your weight gain/loss is impressive! I assume your diet didn't vary during the period (ie, more or less carbs, fats). There are periods in your trial where you went off NMN which I assume was deliberate. You could see were weight crept back up. Also, homeostasis could be playing a role in moderating your weight.

 

Your dose of 38ml was twice a day?

 

Chrys

[LawrenceW]

 There are periods in your trial where you went off NMN which I assume was deliberate.

 

Unfortunately those were interruptions in supply. After the 2nd interruption, I took over responsibility for sourcing NMN for our group and we have had uninterrupted supply since then.

[stefan_001]

Unfortunately those were interruptions in supply. After the 2nd interruption, I took over responsibility for sourcing NMN for our group and we have had uninterrupted supply since then.

I guess that is what many suspected....

[Chrys]

I've been on what I guess could be called the Dr Sinclair protocol with variation on dosage for about a month now.

 

NMN (subligually) - 325 mg/day administered throughout the day (plan to go to 750 mg/day)

Resveratrol  - 500 mg/day taken at first meal of day (11 am to 1 pm)

Metformin - 525 mg/day (time release pill which I take after dinner)

 

I have not noticed anything significant in term of more or less energy. My weight hasn't changed. I'm eating the same meals/food & portions as before the protocol. My diet is a keto variety with IF (10 to 16 hrs). My exercise hasn't changed.

 

The one thing I have noticed is that my Blood Glucose levels have increased dramatically. I have always been pre-diabetic (94 to 99 mg/dL) but recently my blood sugar levels have spiked to 136 since starting the protocol which is concerning.

 

Does anyone have any idea what is going on here? Should I up NMN now to 750 mg or higher? Or stop taking Metformin and see what happens with the BS levels?

 

Chrys

 

 

[LawrenceW]

I've been on what I guess could be called the Dr Sinclair protocol with variation on dosage for about a month now.

 

NMN (subligually) - 325 mg/day administered throughout the day (plan to go to 750 mg/day)

Resveratrol  - 500 mg/day taken at first meal of day (11 am to 1 pm)

Metformin - 525 mg/day (time release pill which I take after dinner)

 

I have not noticed anything significant in term of more or less energy. My weight hasn't changed. I'm eating the same meals/food & portions as before the protocol. My diet is a keto variety with IF (10 to 16 hrs). My exercise hasn't changed.

 

The one thing I have noticed is that my Blood Glucose levels have increased dramatically. I have always been pre-diabetic (94 to 99 mg/dL) but recently my blood sugar levels have spiked to 136 since starting the protocol which is concerning.

 

Does anyone have any idea what is going on here? Should I up NMN now to 750 mg or higher? Or stop taking Metformin and see what happens with the BS levels?

 

Chrys

 

Seems like your high blood glucose may be linked to your Keto diet.

 

https://www.dietdoct...-glucose-higher

[Chrys]

Seems like your high blood glucose may be linked to your Keto diet.

 

https://www.dietdoct...-glucose-higher

 

Thanks Lawrence. That article was very informative. I think I'll schedule an HbA1c test.

[Heisok]

Good point Lawrence. I believe it is related to Keto, but it is most likely a combination of factors with some being able to be controlled.

 

 I personally have found disrupted sleep of even 1 night will cause higher B.G. numbers for at least a couple days. I am not saying that either of these authors are correct, but that my experience is similar.

 

Look what happened:

 

"Conclusion

After doing all this research on fasting glucose levels in low-carb keto eating, I am no longer worried about my morning highs. Now with a greater focus on stress reduction and better sleep, they are routinely in the normal range anyway, while I continue to be in optimal ketosis and love my keto diet and keto life.

And by the way, when I finally went for the my lab test, I got great results. My lipids and cholesterol were excellent and my HbA1c was a healthy 5.3%. “Keep doing what you are doing,” my doctor said. “You are the picture of robust health.”

 

"US nurse Kelley Pound, a low-carb diabetes educator who blogs at the site LowcarbRN, wore a continuous glucose monitor, which tests blood sugars every 5 minutes, to see how various foods and stimuli impacted her blood glucose throughout the day. She discovered that even while eating low carb, it was stress that had the biggest impact on her readings, far more than any low-carb food. “My blood glucose will average 20-30 points higher on mornings where I have not gotten at least 7 hours of sleep,” said Pound, who decided to focus on stress reduction as a key part of diabetes management. “Working so hard to keep blood glucose controlled with diet, only to have it go haywire with stress, is defeating my goals.”

[ambivalent]

I'm not too hot on the reactions but if when NMN is broken down, some ribose is not converted back to NR then this might be a cause of raised blood sugar levels:

 

https://www.scienced...352396417303936

[MJC73]

3 weeks on NMN update - this is a general observation update so if you're looking for bloodwork and consider subjective observations to be timewasting then feel free to stop here. 

 

So my general observations are as follows: (reminder I'm a 45 y.o male in good general fitness, 97kgs at the beginning of the journey, semi regular gym goer)

 

- My exercise performance is substantially improved - squat poundages are up 20% for example, I am now easily squatting 120 kgs for 6 reps (with a final set of 6 half reps at 140kgs as I get used to the weight) and my previous 6 rep max weight of 100kgs is now an easy 8 rep set done straight after my warm up set

- I feel like I actually want to go to the gym rather than doing it by obligation

- I don't feel any real sense of fatigue on the days after my weights workouts where as I used to before

- I still get DOMS but not as severe as I would have before when doing heavy weights (this could just be due to my muscles getting used to the higher poundages so I'd take this with a grain of salt)

- I am growing hair in places that I haven't seen it before - the inside of my forearms is noticeably hairy now whereas before it was hair free - this is slightly freaking me out to be honest.

- The gray hairs on my head seem to be coming through as blonde again as they did in my youth rather than gray which has had the effect of making my hair seem darker

- I have lost a noticeable amount of body fat particularly around my hips and from my lower back

- My muscles seem more full and defined - my arms and chest particularly appear more developed

- I'm currently weighing in at 95kgs so a loss of 2kgs of total bodyweight but given the muscle growth I would imagine there's significantly more than 2kgs of fat loss

- There seems to be a very slight improvement in the quality of my facial skin

- I continue to be incredibly regular (twice a day BMs most days with what would be considered a slightly loose stool)

 

That's it for now

 

Oh and my wife who is also on the same does but does no exercise says she has seen no difference

- 

[Colin]

MJC what's your dosage? 

[MJC73]

MJC what's your dosage? 

 

Hi Colin

 

Well I take one scoop twice a day which I presumed was 125mg but I've just run out of my 12g jar from ABN after not quite a full month and if I calculate the dosage based on number of applications I get 240mgs per scoop, so either I was packing the scoop with too much force or I suspect the product has reacted to the high humidity here (I live in the Australian equivalent of Florida and it's summer time here) and it has deconstructed itself to an extent.

 

My next order is going to be sublingual tablets so I can be sure of the dosage and better plan my next order so I don't run out. 

 

I also took 500mgs of Resveratrol and 500mg of TMG with each scoop.

[Reven]

...

Edited by Reven, 20 March 2019 - 01:09 PM.

[Aak]

Whats everyones or lawrences food grade hydrogen peroxide? i looked first for a 3% mouthwash and couldnt find one (im in australia), the strongest was 1.5%. Hoping i can order the food grade online and make it up with the dilutions above.. Does anyone have an amazon link or brand they use??

Thanks

[LawrenceW]

 Does anyone have an amazon link or brand they use??

Thanks

 

The 8 oz. bottle will last you way more than a year.

 

http://trinitynutralab.com/

Edited by LawrenceW, 21 March 2019 - 04:15 AM.

[MJC73]

Whats everyones or lawrences food grade hydrogen peroxide? i looked first for a 3% mouthwash and couldnt find one (im in australia), the strongest was 1.5%. Hoping i can order the food grade online and make it up with the dilutions above.. Does anyone have an amazon link or brand they use??

Thanks

 

 

Looks like a lot of the US suppliers don't ship to Australia at least in the stronger concentrations. 

 

I found these guys on ebay and their feedback looks excellent - https://www.ebay.com...roxideaustralia

 

I'm at the one month mark of my NMN journey and so I'm expecting some homeostasis to kick in and I'm umming and ahhhing about committing to the H2O2 part of the regimen. The online feedback is pretty polarised - it's either the greatest thing since sliced bread or it is incredibly dangerous and could potentially mess you up. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and order some and see how we go. 

[Chrys]

 

The one thing I have noticed is that my Blood Glucose levels have increased dramatically. I have always been pre-diabetic (94 to 99 mg/dL) but recently my blood sugar levels have spiked to 136 since starting the protocol which is concerning.

 

Does anyone have any idea what is going on here? Should I up NMN now to 750 mg or higher? Or stop taking Metformin and see what happens with the BS levels?

 

Chrys

 

Just a follow up...I did have the Hemoglobin A1c test which did but me in the normal range, 5.6%.

[Chrys]

LawrenceW's personal findings show that the largest most beneficial dosage for sublingual administration of NMN is 30 mg. I dilute 1 jar (12 g) of NMN (from ABN) in 60 ml of water. I fill 5 15 ml bottles and dispense about 5 drops which is equivalent to 30 mg.

 

I have struggled to take this dosage every 60 - 90 minutes...I feel tethered the bottle. I can barely get through 1 bottle a day which is 240 mg; not nearly enough by my calculations. I'd like to be at least 750 mg.

 

For people who take NMN like I do with a diluted solution how do you increase your NMN level...do you add the powder to food like Dr Sinclair does (in yogurt)?

 

I also don't understand why ABN sublingual tablets are 125 mg...seems like you're just pissing away NMN if the mouth membrane can only absorb 30 mg.

 

Correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

 

Thanks

 

Chrys

[able]

LawrenceW's personal findings show that the largest most beneficial dosage for sublingual administration of NMN is 30 mg. I dilute 1 jar (12 g) of NMN (from ABN) in 60 ml of water. I fill 5 15 ml bottles and dispense about 5 drops which is equivalent to 30 mg.

 

I have struggled to take this dosage every 60 - 90 minutes...I feel tethered the bottle. I can barely get through 1 bottle a day which is 240 mg; not nearly enough by my calculations. I'd like to be at least 750 mg.

 

For people who take NMN like I do with a diluted solution how do you increase your NMN level...do you add the powder to food like Dr Sinclair does (in yogurt)?

 

I also don't understand why ABN sublingual tablets are 125 mg...seems like you're just pissing away NMN if the mouth membrane can only absorb 30 mg.

 

Correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

 

Thanks

 

Chrys

 

 

LawrenceW's personal findings are not clinical trials. It's possible his reports are influenced by the commercial product his group seems poised to launch soon.  It's also possible the tablets his group used do not dissolve or absorb as well as powder.

 

I have posted on here many times that I strongly disagree that there is a 30 mg limit for absorption.

 

When I take a scoop that is approximately 125 mg of the powder, I do feel a slight response.

 

If I fill the little sugar spoon I prefer to use, which holds about twice as much, I most definitely get a stronger response, and elevated heart rate.

 

Before a big workout, I sometimes take 2 of those spoonfuls back to back, or about 500 mg.  It is even more stimulating.

 

That tells me more than 30 mg must be getting absorbed, else the single 125 mg scoop would have the same response as 250 or 500 mg.  

 

But please, don't blindly believe me.  You have the powder there.  Try it yourself and report if you notice any stimulation.  I guess I could be experiencing a Pavlovs dog response, where the anticipation of the powder causes an amplified response? I'm sure everyone is different, so it would be interesting to hear yours, and others results.  

 

Regardless of how much gets absorbed - the remainder is not "pissed away".  It goes thru the stomach same as any other method, which may be less effective than sublingual, but surely is not worthless.

Edited by able, 22 March 2019 - 09:21 PM.