672 replies to this topic

[bluemoon]

In this video from 2016 https://www.youtube....h?v=lA4DbN01q70 Sinclair states that it has been proven surprisingly safe in over 100 humans.

 

I also recall that he mentioned in a more recent video that NMN has now passed its human safety trial.

 

In the video you linked to from 2016, Sinclair was referring to the many NR trials underway and the safety of NR, not NMN at the 6:40 mark. This video was posted in July 2016 and the first human trial with NMN began recruiting in July 2017: "Effect of NMN (Nicotinomide Mononucleotide) Supplementation on Cardiometabolic Function". Sinclair's NMN safety trial at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, in Boston, in late 2017.

[accord]

In this video from 2016 https://www.youtube....h?v=lA4DbN01q70 Sinclair states that it has been proven surprisingly safe in over 100 humans.

 

I also recall that he mentioned in a more recent video that NMN has now passed its human safety trial.

 

Thanks, that's useful.

What do you think about bluemoon's comment regarding to NR?

[accord]

BTW, this is the recently made presentation (about the future of humanity), I was referring to.

 

David was asked if NMN is safe for humans, and this is his answer. The video starts at the question:

https://youtu.be/EX_vUgAvG04?t=1768

Edited by accord, 29 April 2019 - 06:30 PM.

[bluemoon]

Thanks, that's useful.

What do you think about bluemoon's comment regarding to NR?

 

I don't think LawrenceW follows the science of NMN that closely based on a couple of comments he has made here.

[accord]

I'm considering to order NMN from AlivebyNature.

- Can we know what is the purity of their NMN?

- Do they post lab testing results for every batch?

- Do you guy trust AlivebyNature?

 

Purity was important for them: https://alivebynatur...mn-testing-new/

But now, you can see the lack of results... They do not even mention this on their product page.

Since their products selling well, is it possible that they do not care about quality anymore?

 

I've contacted them and they've sent me lab results. They've also started posting them again.

Scroll down here: https://alivebynatur...ingual-tablets/

 

Bit of a relief.

Edited by accord, 06 May 2019 - 11:57 PM.

[Yamu Xu]

I read a paper that said Fisetin accelerates the rate of telomere shortening:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...om=groupmessage

 

Accelerated Aging during Chronic Oxidative Stress: A Role for PARP-1

 

-------------------------

AMPK activators can inhibit SASP, and AMPK and mTOR regulate autophagy too, what's more, activate AMPK can protect telomere!

So don't eat fisetin everyday, just eat some safe AMPK activators to control chronic inflammatory.

 

BTW, Alive by Nature's pills of activator contain fisetin, be careful of this.

 

What's more, H2O2 can increase NF-κb and NF-κb can cause DNA damage  too, so drinking H2O2 to activate AMPK may be not a good idea,  we can eat some safe AMPK activators! I recommend baicalein as AMPK activator, baicalein has a strong effect of anti-cancer, and it can extend life span in  animal experiment, related paper:

 

http://xueshu.baidu....&site=xueshu_se

 

Edited by Yamu Xu, 07 May 2019 - 10:49 AM.

[Chrys]

Yamu Xu - do you know what dosage for baicalein can be tolerated for humans?

[MJC73]

Update

 

After breaking my big toe in 3 places in the gym I can confirm that NMN has no magical properties on bone healing as my 3 week xray showed that I had no bone knitting at all (I was a bit slack with the rest component and the moon shoe use) so it's back in the moon shoe for another 4 weeks, I've suspended my daily NMN regimen as a result just in case there are any negative side effects with respect to bone healing as if it fails to heal further then I'm off for surgery to fuse my big toe together with wire and a piece of bone from my hip which sounds mighty unpleasant. 

 

I had my blood work done last week and my general health is excellent - triglycerides were excellent, cholesterol was high at 6.00 but the ratio of LDL to HDL was excellent and my doc said that these days they favor the ratio rather than the total number. My BP was at 120/70 and my resting pulse at 52 - my doc punched in the numbers into his heart health programme on the computer and my % chance of a heart attack came back at close to 0. I'll try to keep up a regular sampling to see if anything is trending. 

[Wiggy]

Interesting on the bloodwork MJC. My experience was the same. After eating pretty well for the past 12 months and 2 months on NMN at 2x125mg per day, my total cholesterol increased from low 5’s to 6.3. The ratio was pretty good and triglycerides were low. The Doc was happy. I have been as high as 7.5 in the past and got down to 3.7 on statins, but stopped taking the statin after a few years due to negative publicity about their side effects. The Doc didn’t advise me to take CoQ10, but I have recently started taking that and have seen an improvement in hair, skin and nails.

[NaHanyate]

Does anyone on this forum take “rest days” every week or every month when they don’t take any NMN?
Also, has anyone noticed an appreciable difference between health effects from sublingual and non-sublingual intake?
Third question - does anyone know whether Dr Sinclair takes his NMN sublingually?

[NaHanyate]

Also, I would like to tell everybody about my bloodwork results. About two years ago, I had done a blood test when my HB1AC came out to be 6.3 (6.4 being diabetic), and my total cholesterol came out to be 171. Since then, I have had a very rough couple of years where every night I have had on average about five hours of sleep, a lot of stress, and very very bad eating habits. In spite of this, after taking a NMN for the last six months, my blood test results just a month ago showed significant improvements. My HB1AC, which I thought would be at least 6.5 or 6.6, which is well into the diabetic range, actually turned out to be 6.1. Also, my total cholesterol had gone down to 163, whereas my HDL had actually gone up, and my LDL had actually gone down so that my LDL was just 1 above the normal. So the ratio was a huge improvement according to my doctor.
I’ll test again in 3 months.
I take 1000mg NMN every morning. I stopped doing the sublingual thing after I read that a Japanese researcher had found NMN transport proteins in the gut.

[Andey]

I think we as community should ditch the idea that lowerish cholesterol is good signs. Sweet spot for TC for all cause mortality is around 230.

https://www.nature.c...461-y/figures/2

https://www.nature.c...598-018-38461-y

 

Lowering TC, LDL could be meaningful when there is metabolic derangement going on (pre diabetic state) but you better look for TG levels first ie if your TG levels are high it means that you are at the bad spot indeed 

[brian1965]

I think we as community should ditch the idea that lowerish cholesterol is good signs. Sweet spot for TC for all cause mortality is around 230.

https://www.nature.c...461-y/figures/2

https://www.nature.c...598-018-38461-y

 

Lowering TC, LDL could be meaningful when there is metabolic derangement going on (pre diabetic state) but you better look for TG levels first ie if your TG levels are high it means that you are at the bad spot indeed 

 

For TG (I assume you mean triglycerides), is there any general consensus on the best supplements and/or foods to lower triglycerides?  I've had some luck lowering LDL and raising HDL with supplements/diet/exercise, but my triglycerides have proven harder to get under control.

 

Do statins generally target triglycerides?  This is one thing I haven't tried yet, and I'm a little hesitant to.

 

. 

[WillNitschke]

Also, I would like to tell everybody about my bloodwork results. About two years ago, I had done a blood test when my HB1AC came out to be 6.3 (6.4 being diabetic), and my total cholesterol came out to be 171. Since then, I have had a very rough couple of years where every night I have had on average about five hours of sleep, a lot of stress, and very very bad eating habits. In spite of this, after taking a NMN for the last six months, my blood test results just a month ago showed significant improvements. My HB1AC, which I thought would be at least 6.5 or 6.6, which is well into the diabetic range, actually turned out to be 6.1. Also, my total cholesterol had gone down to 163, whereas my HDL had actually gone up, and my LDL had actually gone down so that my LDL was just 1 above the normal. So the ratio was a huge improvement according to my doctor.
I’ll test again in 3 months.
I take 1000mg NMN every morning. I stopped doing the sublingual thing after I read that a Japanese researcher had found NMN transport proteins in the gut.

 

Very hard to make much of this given your life style. Questions I would want to ask (for which data may not be available) are:

How has your weight varied? This can significantly affect TC and other blood markers especially if your body is highly sensitive to the weight it's carrying.

 

Has your stress levels reduced? Are you coping better? This can affect cortisol levels and this can have the same effects on your blood work.

 

Have your sleep patterns changed?

Have you altered your diet? People who discover they are prediabetic or even diabetic tend make better food choices, even unconsciously.

Have you changed your food intake timing even if you haven't changed your total calories? I.e., due to workload or shift changes? For example, due to the body's circadian cycles, studies have repeatedly demonstrated this can lower or increase your fasting blood sugar.

If your fasting glucose has decreased, it's not unusual that your cholesterol has improved also.

 

 

 

[WillNitschke]

I'm pretty sure I feel stimulated after taking ABN NMN powder.  However today for the first time I took 500mg of MNN within about a 10 minute period. I can't say whether or not I felt more stimulated after the 500mg (compared to taking less) but one thing I did not get was the elevated heart rate you mentioned.  My heart rate was about 52 beat per minute before I took it and rose to no more that 55 beats per minute in the next 20 minutes.  The 3 beats difference was probably noise.  No where near the 20 beats per minute you reported.    Just one more data point for everyone else.

 

I'm sorry but most of you reporting this 'stimulation' are experiencing placebo effects, that's all. I take MNM just before I go to sleep at night and it has no stimulatory effect whatsoever. I could not say the same for coffee. If MNM is a 'stimulant' than a cup of coffee must be 100X times more powerful...

I think your heart rate has gone up because you're contemplating the cost of each tablet...

[Andey]

For TG (I assume you mean triglycerides), is there any general consensus on the best supplements and/or foods to lower triglycerides?  I've had some luck lowering LDL and raising HDL with supplements/diet/exercise, but my triglycerides have proven harder to get under control.

 

Do statins generally target triglycerides?  This is one thing I haven't tried yet, and I'm a little hesitant to.

 

. 

 

   I would say if you are otherwise healthy than there is no need to treat triglycerides number, it could be genetic and irrelevant.

If not, elevated TGs and insulin resistance are a hallmark of metabolic syndrome. It will improve with losing weight, eating low carb diet, including exercise. The most effective way is probably keto diet as it resets insulin resistance to normal like nothing else and makes weight loss easy with no cravings. If one wish to pursue it I would recommend  http://reddit.com/r/ketoscience  http://reddit.com/r/keto as reading/inspiration as there is not a lot of keto information at longecity. 

Edited by Andey, 14 June 2019 - 03:54 AM.

[NaHanyate]

Very hard to make much of this given your life style. Questions I would want to ask (for which data may not be available) are:

How has your weight varied? This can significantly affect TC and other blood markers especially if your body is highly sensitive to the weight it's carrying.

Has your stress levels reduced? Are you coping better? This can affect cortisol levels and this can have the same effects on your blood work.

Have your sleep patterns changed?

Have you altered your diet? People who discover they are prediabetic or even diabetic tend make better food choices, even unconsciously.

Have you changed your food intake timing even if you haven't changed your total calories? I.e., due to workload or shift changes? For example, due to the body's circadian cycles, studies have repeatedly demonstrated this can lower or increase your fasting blood sugar.

If your fasting glucose has decreased, it's not unusual that your cholesterol has improved also.

[NaHanyate]

Yes. I forgot to mention the most remarkable thing. During this period my weight had gone UP from about 165 to 180 lbs. So this validates findings of studies on mice. Obese mice on NMN become healthier than thin mice not on NMN.

[WillNitschke]

Yes. I forgot to mention the most remarkable thing. During this period my weight had gone UP from about 165 to 180 lbs. So this validates findings of studies on mice. Obese mice on NMN become healthier than thin mice not on NMN.

 

Unfortunately you've validated nothing and have provided no evidence of anything... For example this review of the reliability of the HbA1c test -

https://www.diabetes...y-91218453.html

 

Tells us that it typically varies by 15% from test to test on the same individual. That means if you scored 6.3 in your prior test and 6.1 in your last test, that's just noise. You'd have to get at least 5.4 on your test (not the 6.1) to even hint at the idea that something 'out of the ordinary' happened.

Look, I would love it if you could gain 7kg of fat and still be fit by taking a magic pill. Unfortunately, I think you are kidding yourself. You should be focused on exercise and weight loss as your priority.

[NaHanyate]

Unfortunately you've validated nothing and have provided no evidence of anything... For example this review of the reliability of the HbA1c test -

https://www.diabetes...y-91218453.html

Tells us that it typically varies by 15% from test to test on the same individual. That means if you scored 6.3 in your prior test and 6.1 in your last test, that's just noise. You'd have to get at least 5.4 on your test (not the 6.1) to even hint at the idea that something 'out of the ordinary' happened.

Look, I would love it if you could gain 7kg of fat and still be fit by taking a magic pill. Unfortunately, I think you are kidding yourself. You should be focused on exercise and weight loss as your priority.

[NaHanyate]

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

I don’t know what your educational qualifications are, but reading comprehension does not seem to be your strong suit. According to the study you quoted, in 67% of the cases, the HB1AC test is accurate. In the rest 33%, it can vary UPTO a MAXIMUM of 0.9. So even if I am in that 33%, the variation should be far less, on average.

Also, my cholesterol values improved significantly.

I would suggest that you don’t take this high-handed manner of speaking. Usually this betrays lack of educational qualifications and insecurity arising from that.

[WillNitschke]

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

I don’t know what your educational qualifications are, but reading comprehension does not seem to be your strong suit. According to the study you quoted, in 67% of the cases, the HB1AC test is accurate. In the rest 33%, it can vary UPTO a MAXIMUM of 0.9. So even if I am in that 33%, the variation should be far less, on average.

Also, my cholesterol values improved significantly.

I would suggest that you don’t take this high-handed manner of speaking. Usually this betrays lack of educational qualifications and insecurity arising from that.

 

Here is the relevant quote:

"As noted in an article on the study at Diabetes.co.uk, the researchers examined the HbA1c test results of 200 participants. After comparing the results to the glucose readings of participants using a continuous glucose monitor, they found that differences in average blood glucose readings of as much as 15 mg/dl could lead to an identical HbA1c reading. These differences were seen in about one third of participants."

15mg/dl = .8325mmol.

No test of this can be or is "perfectly" accurate as you claim. The 15mg/dl is variation in up to 30% of participants. Even if your own variation is half that, the difference between 6.3 and 6.1 is still noise.

I'm sorry you got butt hurt over this, but you need to diet and exercise and not believe in "magic" bills to fix your health problems.

 

Edited by WillNitschke, 15 June 2019 - 12:11 AM.

[WillNitschke]

Actually here is an article that is easier to understand and less likely to confuse you:

https://www.healthli...ing-the-results

Relevant quote:

"Accuracy is relative when it comes to A1C or even blood glucose tests, though. The A1C test result can be up to half a percent higher or lower than the actual percentage. That means if your A1C is 6, it might indicate a range from 5.5 to 6.5."

[NaHanyate]

“Actually here is an article that is easier to understand and less likely to confuse you:”

See, this is what I mean. I have a Bachelor’s in Mechanical Engineering from the most difficult-to-get-into school for undergraduates in the world, I have a B.S. in Biology, and I also went to Med school (which I did not finish, but left in good standing), and you are being patronising. I wonder what your background is.
Oh, and I forgot to mention. I also have a Master’s in Computer Science.

Edited by NaHanyate, 15 June 2019 - 05:44 AM.

[WillNitschke]

“Actually here is an article that is easier to understand and less likely to confuse you:”

See, this is what I mean. I have a Bachelor’s in Mechanical Engineering from the most difficult-to-get-into school for undergraduates in the world, I have a B.S. in Biology, and I also went to Med school (which I did not finish, but left in good standing), and you are being patronising. I wonder what your background is.
Oh, and I forgot to mention. I also have a Master’s in Computer Science.

 

So basically looking at your qualifications, which are approx. the same as mine, you're completely unqualified to assert what you asserted, as this area is outside your field of expertise. (People don't like to be corrected when they post misinformation, and your feelings are hurt.) BTW, I asked Ford Brewer MD MPH, who specialises in this area and does a lot of great well balanced content on utube. His reply was:

"A1c is notoriously inaccurate. Unfortunately too few docs know that."



Anyway here is the bottom line, if you're going to assert that NMN is "doing something" then at a minimum your A1c has to drop below at least .5 based on your benchmark. Preferably 1mmol. If you want to say anything about your fasting blood sugar, than home test kits are only accurate to within 2mmol (!) and there is also a lot of variability on the lab tests. Nobody has to be a 'genius' to work this out. This is information that can readily be googled from reputable medical websites.

Edited by WillNitschke, 16 June 2019 - 01:23 AM.

[Vastmandana]

This thread is rapidly devolving into a childish pile of poo....grow up, people.

[renntenn]

Hey Gents.

 

I could really use a bit of advice. 

 

I was on Lawrence's program with the sublingual NMN but it was just too much daily effort. At my size I had to take it 10 times per day and it was annoying to constantly have it on my mind. 

 

I hear people on here saying that larger dose pills are being absorbed effectively through the gut barrier, so I am hoping to just take pills once or twice a day now.

 

1) I weigh 275....what should me dose be? Number of times per day?

2) Can someone send me a link where I can buy REAL NMN? I am worried about getting scammed or buying fake. 

 

Thank you all in advance. 

 

[able]

Hey Gents.

 

I could really use a bit of advice. 

 

I was on Lawrence's program with the sublingual NMN but it was just too much daily effort. At my size I had to take it 10 times per day and it was annoying to constantly have it on my mind. 

 

I hear people on here saying that larger dose pills are being absorbed effectively through the gut barrier, so I am hoping to just take pills once or twice a day now.

 

1) I weigh 275....what should me dose be? Number of times per day?

2) Can someone send me a link where I can buy REAL NMN? I am worried about getting scammed or buying fake. 

 

Thank you all in advance. 

 

 

No one has tested if taking small dosages throughout the day is actually better than a large single dose - that is just a theory.

 

On the other hand, NMN sellers claims the new research on slc12a8 transporter shows "pills are being absorbed effectively through the gut barrier" is not really accurate.

 

The research showed some NMN can be transported directly to NAD+ in small intestines, it does not show how much can be transported that way.

 

It is likely a very small quantity, else it would have been noticed in previous studies.

 

If you want to take it less often, why not just take what you have from Lawrence all at once in the morning?

Edited by able, 17 June 2019 - 12:23 PM.

[MJC73]

Here's an update post my self-enforced hiatus from NMN. My broken big toe that had failed to heal after the first couple of weeks led me to put a hold on all supplementation experimentation. Thankfully after 8 weeks the toe is now mostly healed (thanks to an annoying 6 weeks in a moon boot) and I have re-commenced my NMN regimen of 2 tablets (125mg sublingual from AlivebyNature) per day with the addition of 2 TMG and introducing 2 Baicalin (replacing the H2O2 drops which I felt was impacting my digestive tract negatively as it felt like almost constant indigestion). 

 

After 7 weeks of zero gym work (or even so much as a brisk walk) I got back in the gym for a gentle workout and onto the NMN regimen a week ago and I'm happy to report that I felt a definite difference. My muscle bodies are again feeling more full (beyond what would have been expected post the level of workout I engaged in) and my body feels more lean, like it's operating more efficiently. The additional hair that I had grown on the inside of my forearms has remained. The hair on my head appears to have retained it's changed state (the dispersed grey hairs changed to a more blonde hue which was common when I was younger, reminder I'm a 45y.o male). All in all I'm happy to be back on the regimen.

 

Unfortunately I'm now about to run out of my NMN tablets so I'll need to re-order and wait for delivery, hopefully this will be quicker than the month or so it took to arrive last time. 

[NaHanyate]

In this tweet: https://twitter.com/...7320081410?s=12

David Sinclair says:

“Human clinical trials show that swallowing NAD precursors raises blood NAD levels just fine. While on the topic, measuring NAD levels after a single, isolated dose misses a lot of what actually goes on. More to come.”