672 replies to this topic

[WinnieBeeRich]

I have taken 1500 mg of niacin for many years, and do like how I feel with it.  I just have to remember to lower the dose if I miss a few days, else the burn is too much.

 

I have taken NR and NMN almost 3 years now.  I first noticed improved skin, hair and nails, and a bit more energy from NR.

 

Sublingual NMN gives me a more noticable increase in energy. NR might do the same, but slower - idk. 

 

I do feel Niacin and NMN have different effects and will continue with both.  

Hi, able. 1500mg is a substantial amount! Can you share your experiences with niacin?  I'm considering giving it a try EVEN after so many negative things people said about it. 

And, didn't they just dismiss sublingual delivery(LawrenceW included)? Why are you still taking NMN sublingually?  I hate to veto anything so I wanna hear your reason.

 

Thanks in advance.

[mitoMAN]

I am wondering why there is almost no source about S.C or I.V. injection of NMN?

Almost all the promising studies are done with injection (IP) on animals.

 

Of course it easier to sell a product via oral intake, thats why David and others want to make as much money as possible on oral pills.
I mean no regular dude wants to inject themselves. Thats understandable. But regarding NAD+ and NADH - the effect on chronic illness patients is much much more intense.

 

 

I am doing NADH and NAD+ s.c. with great success contrary to ZERO results from oral intake. Have been taking 1g of NMN for about 5 months as well without any noticeable difference.
Injections of NADH will make a HUGE difference about 30 minutes after injection already.

(Chronic illness patient here - so oral probably is not "enough" to help my mitochondrial dysfunction)

I am suffering from ME/CFS with low intracellular ATP and high lactate buildup on low Watt cycling.

 

See my post here:

https://www.longecit...-injecting-nmn/

 

[able]

Hi, able. 1500mg is a substantial amount! Can you share your experiences with niacin?  I'm considering giving it a try EVEN after so many negative things people said about it. 

And, didn't they just dismiss sublingual delivery(LawrenceW included)? Why are you still taking NMN sublingually?  I hate to veto anything so I wanna hear your reason.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I can't really notice anything from Niacin, but just take it based on research.  I use 500 mg tablets.  I have to build up to 3 (1500 mg), to avoid a painful flush.

 

I do get a noticable boost from sublingual NMN (and NAD+), much different than capsules, so see no reason to stop.

[LawrenceW]

This study was just published:

 

Dramatic clinical improvement in nine consecutive acutely ill elderly COVID-19 patients treated with a nicotinamide mononucleotide cocktail: 

 

https://poseidon01.s...0006116&EXT=pdf

[Oakman]

This study was just published:

 

Dramatic clinical improvement in nine consecutive acutely ill elderly COVID-19 patients treated with a nicotinamide mononucleotide cocktail: 

 

https://poseidon01.s...0006116&EXT=pdf

 

LawrenceW, I would say this is such an impressive result for COVID-19 treatment, it deserves its own thread!  The 'cocktail' is so simple and inexpensive as to be nearly unbelievable, and the story of recovery of all patients is amazing IMO, considering the quest for discovering actual working treatments has been, to date, controversial and disappointing. Excellent find!!

 

"In March 2020, I cared for a hospitalized SARS-CoV-2-infected woman (patient #1) with rapid clinical deterioration – she went from having a normal CXR and O2 sats to life threatening ARDS in just 4 days. Due to strict hospital protocol, I was unable procure experimental Remdesivir or an experimental anti-IL6 drug to treat an apparent evolving cytokine storm. In my private internal medicine practice, I routinely follow elevated inflammatory markers in older patients to predict the risk of cardiovascular diseases, frailty and decline of physical and cognitive function. I had repeatedly observed cytokine levels decrease on oral OTC NMN with three boosters to possibly further optimize sirtuin enzyme action (betaine to counter NAD+ inhibition by nicotinamide₉ , sodium chloride to enhance NMN absorption₁₀ and Zn to up regulate nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) function₁₁). Therefore, with no other treatment options available and after signed informed consent from the patient and family, the NMN cocktail was administered. She promptly and dramatically improved within 48 hours₁₂. Based on this surprising result, I used this NMN cocktail in every subsequent older acutely ill patient I cared for with presumptive COVID-19."

 

"The nine Covid-19 infected patients were on average 65 years old with frequent co-morbidities - 2 with diabetes, 5 with pre-diabetes, 2 with known significant coronary heart disease (CAD), 3 on baseline meds for hypertension (HTN) and 6 with body mass indexes (BMI) in the overweight category. 9/9 patients presented with fever, cough and lethargy leaving them for the most part bedridden; 6/9 reported anosmia with 5/9 initially complaining of diarrhea."

 

"All patients were acutely ill when treatment with the NMN cocktail was begun (range 5 to 34 days after the onset of Covid-19 symptoms)"

 

"Patient Outcomes: Four patients required hospitalization, (one was treated in an emergency room then sent home). No patients required intubation. All nine patients have fully recovered."

Edited by Oakman, 03 September 2020 - 06:00 PM.

[duslompo]

This is massively impressive. I'm particularly curious to understand the following bits:

• "sodium chloride to enhance NMN absorption"
• "Zn to up regulate nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) function"

I'm sure there's plenty of people here who can elaborate on these two items. Appreciate any insights!

[Oakman]

This is massively impressive. I'm particularly curious to understand the following bits:

• "sodium chloride to enhance NMN absorption"
• "Zn to up regulate nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) function"

I'm sure there's plenty of people here who can elaborate on these two items. Appreciate any insights!

 

I too was interested in the 'cocktail' recipe. It appears NMN/NaCl/Betaine ingredients amounts are secret. That's too bad, and odd, if it's a study, why not say what worked exactly? Nevertheless, zinc is given as 220 mg zinc sulphate. The reference  https://www.research...betic_condition gives the reasoning.

 

The salt reference ( https://shinkowaphar...T_Nat-Metab.pdf ) speaks to "The Slc12a8 NMN transporter is specific to NMN and requires the sodium ion for the transport of NMN" so that's that one. I could not find exactly how much NMN they were given.

 

All in all, the results were impressive, but lead to more questions. I guess one could, if they needed this 'cocktail' to try, could use typical recommended amts of NMN & Betaine, then add some NaCl to get to 1.67 grams or thereabouts, then also 220 mg Zinc sulphate.

[Heisok]

Thanks Lawrence.

 

Great results. I found that I had a jittery caffeine like reaction when I was taking NMN capsules. I take Zinc in the AM with my multivitamin, and I always start my morning with salted water due to electrolyte issues. I wonder if I was getting extra NMN absorption.

 

Since you pointed the results out, I have added Betaine to my current regimen to go with sublingual NMN.

 

From the study:

 

"Two patients complained of a caffeine-like jitteriness temporally associated with NMN cocktail ingestion that attenuated with repeated use (patient #1) and dose discontinuation after three days of treatment (patient #2). No other adverse symptoms or lab changes were noted."

Edited by Heisok, 07 September 2020 - 09:47 PM.

[CharlieG]

Just got my lab results. 

 

 

But before we get into that I would like to bring everyone up to speed on my history with NMN.

 

July 11, 2015 – May 5, 2016 I took 3,400mg of NMN twice per day.

 

May 6, 2016 – May 21, 2017 I didn’t take any NMN or NR

 

May 22, 2017 – Aug. 28, 2017 I took 500 mg of Niagen twice per day.

 

Aug. 29, 2017 – Sept. 21, 2017 I didn’t take any NMN or NR

 

Sept. 22, 2017 – Dec. 21, 2017 I took 1,600 mg of NMN twice per day

 

Dec. 22, 2017 – May 8, 2018 I took 750 mg of NMN twice per day.

 

Here are the highlights from my most recent blood work

 

A1C was 5.8 and stayed at 5.8.

Testosterone had come down from 445 to 406

C-Reactive dropped from .49 to .31

The rest had insignificant changes from the previous blood panel.

 

 

It turns out that my May 2018 numbers were almost identical to my Dec. 2017 numbers. As the Dec. numbers were based on 1,600 mg of NMN twice per day and the May numbers were based on 750 mg twice per day, it appears that the 750 mg twice per day dose is just as effective as the 1,600 mg twice per day. It looks like I once again had very expensive urine from September to December last year!

 

Based on today's numbers I am going to reduce my NMN dosage to 500 mg twice per day starting tomorrow morning and check that in 3 months with another blood panel.

 

BTW for those looking for a MG/KG dosage I weigh 209 lbs or 95 kgs. Therefore my new 1,000 mg per day dosage equates to 10.46 mg/kg human or 122 mg/kg mouse dosage.

 

Thanks for sharing this! Good to know about the dose change and how the lower dose was just as effective as the higher one. This whole post was fascinating.

[5IMON]

 

I am wondering why there is almost no source about S.C or I.V. injection of NMN?

Almost all the promising studies are done with injection (IP) on animals.

 

Of course it easier to sell a product via oral intake, thats why David and others want to make as much money as possible on oral pills.
I mean no regular dude wants to inject themselves. Thats understandable. But regarding NAD+ and NADH - the effect on chronic illness patients is much much more intense.

 

 

I am doing NADH and NAD+ s.c. with great success contrary to ZERO results from oral intake. Have been taking 1g of NMN for about 5 months as well without any noticeable difference.
Injections of NADH will make a HUGE difference about 30 minutes after injection already.

(Chronic illness patient here - so oral probably is not "enough" to help my mitochondrial dysfunction)

I am suffering from ME/CFS with low intracellular ATP and high lactate buildup on low Watt cycling.

 

See my post here:

https://www.longecit...-injecting-nmn/

 

 

 

Where do you source your injectable NAD. I would like to try some

 

I also suffer from CFS and would like to share my finding with you 

[ymc]

Just ordered some 500mg NMN capsules. Planning to take two capsules per day as this

research suggests a dosage of 8mg/kg/day

https://www.cell.com...4131(16)30495-8

 

Will get back here in a month to report if there are any effects.

[ymc]

Well, I might be duped by a China fake. I ordered NMN Max 500mg from Amazon that is selling for $0.7/g. While 99% of the reviews are positive, none of them talked about third party validation. The remaining 1% negative reviews think it is not as effective as the more expensive ones and also no third party validation.

 

Anyway, I just ordered ProHealth 15g NMN powder at $3.7/g. I think I will try to take 2g/day NMN Max first. Then when ProHealth arrives, I will take 1g/day.

[MikeDC]

Well, I might be duped by a China fake. I ordered NMN Max 500mg from Amazon that is selling for $0.7/g. While 99% of the reviews are positive, none of them talked about third party validation. The remaining 1% negative reviews think it is not as effective as the more expensive ones and also no third party validation.

Anyway, I just ordered ProHealth 15g NMN powder at $3.7/g. I think I will try to take 2g/day NMN Max first. Then when ProHealth arrives, I will take 1g/day.

That NMN Max most likely to be fake.

[Keizo]

IDK about NMN, but ABN sells a nasal NAD spray and its the only form of NAD supplement that I feel stimulating effect from(at one point in time they sent a free sample to a bunch of customers).

Its a bit irritating at first but nose get irritated even from water.

I ve tried to dissolve their NAD powder and use in a spray form and subjectively it works though less profoundly than factory maid but I was conservative with amount of powder too, so it was as expected

 

I could easily see how someone could put too much powder in it and get his nose fried.

The sense of smell is a delicate thing just from my experience with perfume. All kinds of molecules can negatively change ones sense of smell for long periods of time (and most of the ones I've had experience with are common in perfume, and by brands that have extensively tested them for safety, and these are in minute quantities thru indirect inhalation and not 100s of milligrams etc). Even eating raw garlic or using modest amounts of oral tobacco negatively changes my sense of smell for a period. The olfactory nerve is directly exposed in the nose (which leads to the brain directly).  

To me it intuitively makes little sense to administer something in large quantities thru the nose, it's not a terribly large area for absorption into the blood stream. Also consider the hygiene factor with clogged up nostrils and bacterial growth in leftover <whatever>. Since I'm a huge fan of my sense of smell, I'd only put very small quantities of anything up my nose, and rather go for bigger absorption routes for larger quantities (oral, intravenous, intramuscular ---- not that I'm saying anyone should make homemade IV/IM solution of some random powder they have).

----------------

Anyway I'm rather impressed with the subjective effects from 1-1.5 grams NMN I got form alivebyscience. Orally, dissolved in water on empty stomach in morning. Just used it a few days. Definite increase in energy levels, despite me being only 29. Looking forward to see how this works out over a month or so. The powder itself might have the faintest buttery taste/smell, but in water it tastes like nothing but slightly refreshing. (This is the "pure nmn 100g" that also says "sublingual powder" on the bag, nothing but NMN in the ingredients afaik). I think I'll stick to 1 gram or less.

Edited by Keizo, 06 December 2020 - 01:22 AM.

[ymc]

Last night, the NMN Max bottles arrived. I took four capsules (2g) immediately. Then it woke me up in the

middle of the night with nasal congestion that subsides after me listening to music for half an hour. Today,

I took two capsules after breakfast and two after lunch. Let's see if the nasal congestion returns.

 

I also distributed three bottles of NMN Max to three friends and instructed them to take two capsules per

day. They are either old age and/or with underlying conditions. Let's see how it works out for them after

a month.

[ymc]

On the second day, I took 1g after breakfast and 1g after lunch. Then I don't have sleep problem anymore.

 

So far I don't see any positive effects from NMN yet. I am still yawning in the afternoon. No improvement in the gym room either unlike the 5g creatine I am taking daily.

 

I read somewhere else it can cause sleeping problem if taking before bed. So NMN Max may be legit to some extent?

 

Anyway, my ProHealth NMN also arrived. I will take it for 1g for 15 days after I took 2g of NMN Max for 15 days. Then I

will compare the two.

[Keizo]

[...]

 

So far I don't see any positive effects from NMN yet. I am still yawning in the afternoon. No improvement in the gym room either unlike the 5g creatine I am taking daily.

 

I read somewhere else it can cause sleeping problem if taking before bed. So NMN Max may be legit to some extent?

 

[...]

I've taken around 1 gram of the NMN from alivebyscience, for few days. I have taken in the afternoon sometimes, I do think it makes it slightly harder to sleep esp taken in PM, but it doesn't come close to half a cup of coffee. I think effects are rather subtle as far as specific effects. Decided to give some to my mom as well, it's possible she gets more significant effects, she seems much more energetic even after a single 1.x g dose, but it might be coincidence (she normally has ups and downs in energy and how much she sleeps, but she's basically nearing alzheimers/vascular dementia but no diagnosis etc).

 

I guess you could try tasting the powder inside. If it's similar to mine then it should just taste very mild, a bit fresh/sour (maybe buttery, or sort of salty, very mild bitterness perhaps, but it's hard to describe). Mostly tastes fresh when I dissolve 1g in half glass of water (dissolves easy).

Edited by Keizo, 10 December 2020 - 07:32 AM.

[bosharpe]

I've been taking Alive by Science' Liposomal NAD & NMN for about 6 months and I don't feel any difference to be honest. I'm going to test Nootropics Depot's enteric coated tablets next to see if it's more effective.

[aribadabar]

I've been taking Alive by Science' Liposomal NAD & NMN for about 6 months and I don't feel any difference to be honest. I'm going to test Nootropics Depot's enteric coated tablets next to see if it's more effective.

 

You wouldn't since you are sub 40 IIRC and your NAD+ levels are not too low yet.
 

[Consequences]

Anyone else feel terrible on NMN?

I take the nootropicsdepot enteric capsules, one every other day (if I take daily then I can't sleep, even with melatonin).

On days when i take it I am tired all day long and all my muscles in my legs ache. On days I don't take it, I feel great.

The first time I took it it gave me tons of energy, I had to quit caffeine because I would get too overstimulated, started getting muscle ache so I stopped.

Now on the second cycle and where it does give me more energy (especially stacked with quercitin / zinc / coq10) it just makes me feel, well, shit.

[Anthony_Loera]

I have been taking NMN since we tested it on ourselves last year

after manufacturing a limited batch of 30 (1000mg) servings in a bottle.

 

After taking Advanced NMN 1000 for about two months,

I took the Jinfiniti Cellular NAD test even though I didn't feel any different.

(I turned 50 last August, and I was 49 when I took this test).

 

The following were my results:

 Anthony Loera - Cellular NAD Test.png   76.18KB   6 downloads

 

I also wondered how I compared to my 16-year-old son.

(he turned 16 last December and was 15 when he took the same test)

 

I had him take the test.

These are his results:

 Son Loera - Cellular NAD Test.png   98.19KB   4 downloads

 

 

To me, there is no doubt the RevGenetics Advanced NMN 1000 that we manufacture for ourselves

(and provide to others who have asked for it) worked for me.

 

Does it work for everyone?

I don't know if it works for everyone, but I am convinced that it works for me,

because I took the cellular NAD test with awesome results.

 

IMHO, without doing the cellular NAD test, you will probably always wonder

if your supplements work because it usually won't make you "FEEL" any different.  

 

Cheers

Anthony Loera

RevGenetics

[midas]

 

I have been taking NMN since we tested it on ourselves last year

after manufacturing a limited batch of 30 (1000mg) servings in a bottle.

 

After taking Advanced NMN 1000 for about two months,

I took the Jinfiniti Cellular NAD test even though I didn't feel any different.

(I turned 50 last August, and I was 49 when I took this test).

 

The following were my results:

Anthony Loera - Cellular NAD Test.png

 

I also wondered how I compared to my 16-year-old son.

(he turned 16 last December and was 15 when he took the same test)

 

I had him take the test.

These are his results:

Son Loera - Cellular NAD Test.png

 

 

To me, there is no doubt the RevGenetics Advanced NMN 1000 that we manufacture for ourselves

(and provide to others who have asked for it) worked for me.

 

Does it work for everyone?

I don't know if it works for everyone, but I am convinced that it works for me,

because I took the cellular NAD test with awesome results.

 

IMHO, without doing the cellular NAD test, you will probably always wonder

if your supplements work because it usually won't make you "FEEL" any different.  

 

Cheers

Anthony Loera

RevGenetics

 

 

Begs the question why you didn't take a before and after test? Seems pretty pointless otherwise.
 

[Anthony_Loera]

Begs the question why you didn't take a before and after test? Seems pretty pointless otherwise.
 

 

 

Great question. When I started taking Advanced NMN 1000, there was no cellular test available.

 

I was going to simply do a circulating NAD test, which happened to be the only test available. I knew it was not what people wanted to see, but it was what was available. After a good long time customer emailed me asking about the best way to test NAD, and I starting digging some more. I eventually spoke to Dr. She from Jinfiniti, who had developed the new cellular NAD test and tried it out. It was not even available unless you asked because they were still working on offering it on their own website.

 

This is why RevGenetics ended up being the first Nutraceutical company, other than Jinfiniti themselves, to offer it to our customers. You can even see my original sample card with my blood dated here: https://store.revgen...upplements-work

 

Afterward, I wondered if the results would be very different than that of my son, who was in the middle of growing into a full adult. I figured it was a good idea to get a test for him, so that I could understand my data better by comparing it to my own son, since I did not take the cellular NAD test before starting the Advanced NMN 1000 capsules. 

 

It turned out to be pretty eye-opening for my family.

 

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 11 May 2022 - 02:54 PM.

[soulprogrammer]

I want to try NMN (used to try NR) think this might be more effective, any recommend which brands should I take?

[MikeDC]

I've been using NR since it first showed up on the scene. I recently added 500mg of NMN sublingualy and have been amazed by the energy boost. I was able to do extra reps with weights. Does anyone see any issue with using both? I have been taking 2 NR capsules (250mg) first thing in the morning and taking the NMN sublingualy later in the morning or early afternoon.

I don’t know if sublingual works or not. But oral NR/NMN are no better than NAM. Oral dose should be less than 300mg.

[parsons]

I don’t know if sublingual works or not. But oral NR/NMN are no better than NAM. Oral dose should be less than 300mg.

 

What about liposomal NR/NMN? What about reduced NR/NMN?

[MikeDC]

Liposome will probably work. Need to see a study. NRH and NMNR are much more bioavailable. Gel encapsulation will be much better because they don’t like stomach acid.

[Harkijn]

I want to try NMN (used to try NR) think this might be more effective, any recommend which brands should I take?

Most NMN brands contain little or no NMN and some of them contain bad stuff. Caveat emptor. NR brands that specify NIAGEN on the label really contain NR.

 

Both NR and NMN as well as Niacin (not: NAM) have a positive role to play in someone with a basically healthy lifestyle, but they are not the fountain of youth as only some proponents of NMN have suggested.

[able]

The research does show NMNH and NRH to be much more bioavailable, but I'm not sure that makes them "better".

 

They both turn in to NADH.

 

Researchers agree that it is the NAD+ to NADH ratio that improves health, not the total NAD available.

 

Supplementation goal is to increase NAD+, not NADH.

 

So to me, it seems increasing NADH is not beneficial and could even be counterproductive.

 

I agree that liposomal delivery does make sense.

[MikeDC]

Most NMN brands contain little or no NMN and some of them contain bad stuff. Caveat emptor. NR brands that specify NIAGEN on the label really contain NR.

Both NR and NMN as well as Niacin (not: NAM) have a positive role to play in someone with a basically healthy lifestyle, but they are not the fountain of youth as only some proponents of NMN have suggested.

Long term high dose NR/NMN/NAM doesn’t extend lifespan in mice. Low dose might.