12 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

This thread is for all things ECM related. That includes everything even remotely related to ECM rejuvenation. Theories about early aging, skin, advice, suggestions, etc. It's not just about looks but about all symptoms of aging in the earlier years.

 

In another thread on reviving senescent cells we began to discuss the root causes of early signs of aging. This isn't just looks necessarily, but rather the degrading ECM over your 30's and 40's. It was postulated that the issue is slower turnover due to shortening telomeres that leads to a loss of moisture, subcutaneous fat and other losses. Maybe this is it, maybe not. Maybe it's a combination of things, like AGE crosslinks (fructosamine, pentosidine, glucosepane), etc.

 

Drugs like glitazones were suggested, dermarolling, and I even looked into Hyaluronic Acid fillers, most of which are kept very expensive by the government run protection racket we all know as the patent system.

 

I've tried supplementing type II collagen for well over a year with little if any results. 

 

As far as facial appearance, dermarolling was suggested as a means of increasing the speed at which skin cells turn over. That's one way to do it I suppose. It takes a pretty deep puncture to accomplish this from what I understand, so needles as long as 1mm are required. This means adding numbing cream and taking great care to sterilize. I can't find any 1mm dermarollers, at least on Amazon, that have any valid, positive reviews. Are there any recommendations people might have for getting into this? I haven't really seen many impressive results with this yet and can't imagine it can deal with the deeper smile lines around the eyes.

 

What about other aging areas of the ECM? Muscle stiffness, arteries, heart, just the general early symptoms of aging as you get into the late 30s and early 40s?

Edited by Nate-2004, 22 March 2018 - 09:26 PM.

[bosharpe]

I'm soon going to begin taking Great Lakes HC everyday in the morning as I've heard this help your body (as well as skin). I would definitely also consider fillers for myself in the near future (2-5 years). Currently I use a lot of high quality topicals for skincare from Niod & The Ordinary. Haven't tried Derma Rolling thus far but wouldn't rule it out in the future. There are also lots of other home devices such as LED, dermabrasion and microcurrent out there. I've used Ultrasound but It's a chore and it didn't do that much for appearance (but did firm to the touch).

[Nate-2004]

I've tried all the topicals, LEDs, near infrared, Great Lakes HC, and none of this really does anything really. The topicals keep things moisturized which is important but not even remotely enough to rejuvenate anything.

[ekaitz]

Didi you try red light at the doses and wavelenghts adivsed? 670nm @ 100J/cm2. People think any visible light that is red is the same and should do the work without ensuring dose, wavelnght..., and definitely things don't work like that

 

Constant voluplus application should help. And what about ipamorelin/mod-GRF peptides before sleep?

[Nate-2004]

I tried all the wavelengths all the ways of "dosing" and I read quite a lot about it, it does nothing, trust me. Don't waste your time. Voluplus doesn't work either. I tried it for months on my face, don't waste your time. 

[ekaitz]

Could you elaborate on which devices and methodology did you follow?

[Nate-2004]

Numerous ones: 

 

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.c...EAGAAWMQJY5P09Y

 

At first I did 20 mins a day, face

 

Then I thought maybe that was too much so I tried 20 mins a week

 

Edited by Nate-2004, 25 March 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[bosharpe]

I've tried all the topicals, LEDs, near infrared, Great Lakes HC, and none of this really does anything really. The topicals keep things moisturized which is important but not even remotely enough to rejuvenate anything.

 

Ah okay fair enough. What about cosmetic procedures have you got a budget for any of that? HEre's a video I stumbled upon last week you might find interesting about Retin-a and the time frame it takes to work.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=6pY4kXrTtSs

 

Skip to the before and after pics.

Edited by bosharpe, 27 March 2018 - 08:40 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I've experimented with retin-a for years, not really too helpful in terms of restoring that young look or addressing the deeper smile wrinkles and sunken look around the eyes, plus the ever deepening nasolabial folds.

 

I have looked into Restylane, $590 per syringe full and that does not include consultation and treatments nor am I entirely sure about whether all I'd need is one syringe. It only lasts 9 months too, which is another interesting question, why does it only last 9 months? Is it designed that way for repeat business or is there another clue to the root causes in that problem?

 

[bosharpe]

It only lasts 9 months too, which is another interesting question, why does it only last 9 months? Is it designed that way for repeat business or is there another clue to the root causes in that problem?

 

Not a clue. Would like to know that myself.

[Nate-2004]

 

It only lasts 9 months too, which is another interesting question, why does it only last 9 months? Is it designed that way for repeat business or is there another clue to the root causes in that problem?

 

Not a clue. Would like to know that myself.

 

 

The woman in the video you linked says she did fillers too and apparently likes the retin-a product better so I dunno.

[Phoebus]

 

 

Extracellular matrix in cutaneous ageing: the effects of 0.1% copper-zinc malonate-containing cream on elastin biosynthesis.

 

Abstract

 

Cutaneous ageing, as visualized at the exposed areas of skin, reflects dramatic alterations in the structure and function of the extracellular matrix of connective tissues. Among them, the elastic fibre network, which is responsible for the physiological elasticity and resilience of normal skin, undergoes degradative changes leading to loss of functional elastic fibres. A potential strategy to counteract these degenerative changes entails topical application of a compound that may lead to regeneration of the elastic fibre network. In this study, we have evaluated the effects of a bi-metal, 0.1% copper-zinc malonate-containing cream that has been shown to efface wrinkles in clinical trials. An effect on elastin biosynthesis and elastic tissue accumulation in skin biopsies was observed in 21 female patients with photoaged facial skin, as measured at baseline and at 6 weeks of treatment. Histopathological evaluation revealed evidence of elastic fibre regeneration, including those extending perpendicularly towards the dermo-epidermal junction within the papillary dermis. Elastin biosynthesis, measured by semi-quantitative immunofluorescence with an antibody recognizing only the newly synthesized, uncrosslinked tropoelastin molecules, suggested statistically significant enhancement of elastin biosynthesis by the bi-metal compound when applied twice daily. Accumulation of elastic fibres was confirmed by assay of desmosine, an elastin-specific crosslink compound. These results suggest that the bi-metal, 0.1% copper-zinc malonate-containing cream has the propensity to increase elastin synthesis in human skin in vivo, and that regeneration of elastic fibres may contribute to wrinkle effacement in female patients with photoaged facial skin

DOI: 10.1111/j.1600-0625.2008.00783.x

 

Never heard of "copper-zinc malonate" and it is not available for purchase anywhere I can find. 

 

I assume some other forms of copper and zinc would work? or maybe not? 

Edited by Phoebus, 28 February 2019 - 11:26 PM.

[Phoebus]

  Cinnamon Extract Promotes Type I Collagen Biosynthesis via Activation of IGF-I Signaling in Human Dermal Fibroblasts

 

 

The breakdown of collagenous networks with aging results in hypoactive changes in the skin. Accordingly, reviving stagnant collagen synthesis can help protect dermal homeostasis against aging. We searched for type I collagen biosynthesis-inducing substances in various foods using human dermal fibroblasts and found that cinnamon extract facilitates collagen biosynthesis. Cinnamon extract potently up-regulated both mRNA and protein expression levels of type I collagen without cytotoxicity. We identified cinnamaldehyde as a major active component promoting the expression of collagen by HPLC and NMR analysis. Since insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) is the most potent stimulator of collagen biosynthesis in fibroblasts, we examined the effect of cinnamaldehyde on IGF-I signaling. Treatment with cinnamaldehyde significantly increased the phosphorylation levels of the IGF-I receptor and its downstream signaling molecules such as insulin receptor substrate-1 and Erk1/2 in an IGF-I-independent manner. These results suggested that cinnamon extract is useful in antiaging treatment of skin.

https://pubs.acs.org....1021/jf2043357