2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

 

Turnbuckle,

 

Have you ever stopped reception "Stem cell self-renewal" to see what will happen?

 

If so, did you notice a worsening of your condition, and after what time?

 

 

I've taken a week or more off several times since I began and I've seen no reversal of effects. Quite the opposite: I've seen a slow and seemingly continuous reversal of age. I'm still awaiting the results of a second epigenetic test to see if epigenetic age might have gone down as well, but I expect it will take several tests over a couple of years to see what is happening at that level. 

[Fafner55]

Turnbuckle,

Have you taken treatments to clear senescent cells? I ask because of the possibility that their cytokines may inhibit a reversal in epigenetic age.

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle,

Did you have long breaks (month, year)?

[QuestforLife]

I've taken a week or more off several times since I began and I've seen no reversal of effects. Quite the opposite: I've seen a slow and seemingly continuous reversal of age. I'm still awaiting the results of a second epigenetic test to see if epigenetic age might have gone down as well, but I expect it will take several tests over a couple of years to see what is happening at that level. 

 

I'm also awating an epigenetic test result. It will give me a useful delta to the result I got a year ago, which came out at exactly my chronological age at that time.

 

Of course I've trialed multiple interventions over the last year, but Turnbuckle's Stem Cell self-renewal was one of them. At the time of testing I'd completed 15 iterations of the protocol. I've now done over 20 iterations, and whilst my results at the age of 39 have been less dramatic than Turnbuckle has reported, I've been encouraged enough to continue the treatment for a few more months, generally doing 3 days a week, 3 weeks in a row, then having a week off.

[Andey]

Turnbuckle,

Have you taken treatments to clear senescent cells? I ask because of the possibility that their cytokines may inhibit a reversal in epigenetic age.

 

  There is a possibility that mito cycling and stem cell promoting protocols take care of senescence already.

Here is a study that found

The senescent cells in muscle decreased (-48%, P < 0.01) after exercise for 48 h. Low protein supplementation resulted in greater infiltrations of both CD68+ phagocytic macrophage and leukocyte, further decreased p16Ink4a+ senescent cells (-73%, P < 0.001), and delayed increases in regenerative CD163+ macrophage in skeletal muscle, compared with high protein supplemented condition. Significant gain in muscle mass after 12 weeks of training occurred only under high protein supplemented condition. Conclusion: Rapid senescent cell clearance of human skeletal muscle during resistance exercise seems to associate with enhanced in situ phagocytosis. High protein availability accelerates resolution of muscle inflammation and promotes muscle increment after training.

http://www.aging-us....cle/101472/text

 

If SC cells could decrease(and increase) their number 2 fold after something as trivial as exercise,  it looks, to me, that SC cells population is not cut in stone and more a result of some equilibrium in pathway signaling.

Edited by Andey, 19 July 2018 - 01:42 PM.

[lost69]

great work!   who do you use for testing

zymo research mydnage

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle,

Have you taken treatments to clear senescent cells? I ask because of the possibility that their cytokines may inhibit a reversal in epigenetic age.

 

 

I've tried that once so far--see this post. This probably doesn't need to be done very often, but one should have full pools of stem cells to take advantage of it.

[QuestforLife]

I've tried that once so far--see this post. This probably doesn't need to be done very often, but one should have full pools of stem cells to take advantage of it.

Absolutely. Senescent cell clearance without adequate replacement cells waiting in the wings is going to be of short lived benefit, and quite possibly be harmful in the long run IMO.

[Kentavr]

... My intuition is that cancer cells are basically stem cells ...

 

The source of a cancerous tumor is a malignant stem cell

 

Details: https://regnum.ru/news/2449562.html

 

I also read in other sources that scientists are gradually coming to the same conclusions. That's why the tumor is so difficult to win: even if only 1 cancer cell remains, the tumor can arise again.

 

Treatment options: quercetin + tocotrienols (senolithics)

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26343116

 

However, in my opinion, a more effective combination: taxifolin + tocotrienols, because Taxifolin has a higher value ORAC.

 

(may be, HT + tocotrienols???)

 

P.S.:

 

Action of Nrf2 and Keap1 in ARE-mediated NQO1 expression by quercetin

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17462537

Edited by Kentavr, 19 July 2018 - 09:55 PM.

[QuestforLife]

Kentavr

I expect you are right and the worse cancers arise from stem cells. This paper has shaped my thinking.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...6&from=stindl R

This protocol includes astralagus to try and prevent aneuploidy as stem cells divide.

Of course, somatic cells can immortalise as well, but I expect this requires a great number of cells (I read you need several million malfunctioning cells arrested by short telomeres to make it likely one will escape via TERT or ALT activation). This probably lies behind most non malignant (not yet immortalised) tumors, and possibly the more rare (often childhood) cancers that are thought to be due to longer telomeres (which allows a pre malignant tumour to get bigger than it otherwise could before it is arrested, and hence one of its numbers has more chance to immortalise).

In my opinion this explains why anyone can get cancer at any age, even (or especially children) due to spontaneous immortalisation of a single cell in a pre malignant lump, but also why cancer becomes much more likely with age, as stem cells get shorter telomeres and fall prey to aneuploidy. And this doesn't even take account of the failing surveillance of the immune system, which also suffers from short telomeres and cellular senescence.

This field is still cloaked in mystery, which is ridiculous given how many people cancer kills.

Anyway, more healthy stem cells being available makes cancer less likely, if you agree with what I'm saying, so this protocol should help.

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

Time 3:30 —

Potassium nitrate — 500 mg

 

Why did you get rid of Potassium nitrate in your latest #4 update with C60?

[Turnbuckle]

Time 3:30 —

Potassium nitrate — 500 mg

 

Why did you get rid of Potassium nitrate in your latest #4 update with C60?

 

 

I was trying to combine these things in a one-protocol-does-all, but I ultimately decided they worked better as separate protocols as in post 326. NO interferes with neural stem cell proliferation so I put the nitrate an hour behind C60, but C60 may also interfere with the NO signal to satellite cells, and thus it should come last. So given that each should be last, there was no way to arrange them.

[lost69]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFgUGNM50RY&t=12s

 

sarah westall interview to max champie and his type of water/food fasting, did anyone try something like it?

 

 

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

Turnbukle,

My wife and I started this fourth protocol this evening (July 20, 2018) as follows. We did well with Time 0 and can tell why that Astragulus root extract powder is an OR as it tastes terrible:) We were able to get it down by eating a little bit of brownie and taking sips of the Astragulus root extract powder in water. The brownies turned out well with your recipe of "Using a box mix that calls for 2/3 cups of oil, I cut that back to 2 tablespoons and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Then I mix at room temp using a power mixer, baking according to directions, dividing it 3x4 and freezing most of it for later use." so thank you for that!

 

Just realized I screwed up and bought 500 mg capsules of L-Threonine.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ne douglas labs

 

I couldn't find Threonine and was wondering if L-Threonine is OK to take in this protocol. Seems like taking twenty (20) 500 mg capsules to get to the 10 g of L-Threonine would be excessive. I was wondering if taking a couple for each of the first three days would be OK as the recommended dosage is one capsule? Found this bulk L-Threonine and can get it but it will not come in until after the first three days are up so trying to salvage what I can out of the 500 mg capsules for this first three days.

 

https://www.amazon.c...9352200001&th=1

 

Any recommendations on the L-Threonine would be appreciated to get me through this jam with the 500 mg capsules I bought in terms of how many capsules would be recommended.

Thank you!

 

Stem cell self-renewal, with C60

 

Time 0 —

Stearic acid — 10g (in hot chocolate or brownie)

Cycloastragenol — 10 mg

and/or Astragalus root extract powder — 5 g

 

Time 2:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg

Liposomal glutathione — 500 mg

 

Time 2:30 —

Threonine – 10 g

C60 — 3 mg (in EVOO or MCT oil)

 

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

Stem cell self-renewal, with C60

Turnbuckle,

I would appreciate if you would check my math to convert the grams and milligrams in your protocol to teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, and ml as my weight scale has not come in yet.

 

Time 0 —

Stearic acid — 10g (in hot chocolate or brownie); 18.66 tablespoons=1.166 cups from www.HalalEveryday.com

Cycloastragenol — 10 mg; qty. 1  (one) 10 mg capsule from www.crackaging.com

and/or Astragalus root extract powder — 5 g; 2.57 teaspoons from bulksupplements.com

 

Time 2:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg; qty. 2 (two) 250 mg capsules from Nutricost

Liposomal glutathione — 500 mg; qty. 2 (two) 250 mg soft gels from CORE Med Science

 

Time 2:30 —

Threonine – 10 g; 1.248 teaspoons L-Threonine from bulksupplements.com

C60 — 3 mg (in EVOO or MCT oil); 3.91 ml from Live Longer Labs (46mg C60 / 60ml Olive Oil)

[Andey]

 

Time 0 —

Stearic acid — 10g (in hot chocolate or brownie); 18.66 tablespoons=1.166 cups from www.HalalEveryday.com

 

  10 g is about 1 tablespoon. You will get yourself a hard time trying to digest 19tbs of stearic acid at once. )

[BelieveWeDoBetterTogether]

  10 g is about 1 tablespoon. You will get yourself a hard time trying to digest 19tbs of stearic acid at once. )

Thanks! I was trying to figure out how many tablespoons in 120g as that is what Turnbuckle said to put in the Brownie mix. If you cut 12 servings from that, you get 10 g per serving. Sounds like I need 12tbs to get 120g instead of 19tbs per what you are saying. Thank you for the clarification. If I use http://www.endmemo.c...nvert/gcups.php to get 0.5387 cups and then convert to 8.619tbs so that is even less than what you are saying and much less than what I originally said. In the first batch of brownies my wife put 8 tablespoons in as that is what she thought was 120 g from her cooking experience, it cooked well, and tasted good. Got to get a weight scale so I can make sure I am putting the correct amount in.

[Kentavr]

Thanks! I was trying to figure out how many tablespoons in 120g as that is what Turnbuckle said to put in the Brownie mix. If you cut 12 servings from that, you get 10 g per serving. Sounds like I need 12tbs to get 120g instead of 19tbs per what you are saying. Thank you for the clarification. If I use http://www.endmemo.c...nvert/gcups.php to get 0.5387 cups and then convert to 8.619tbs so that is even less than what you are saying and much less than what I originally said. In the first batch of brownies my wife put 8 tablespoons in as that is what she thought was 120 g from her cooking experience, it cooked well, and tasted good. Got to get a weight scale so I can make sure I am putting the correct amount in.

Maybe you just buy a kitchen scale?

[Turnbuckle]

I've now used the senescent cell clearance protocol a second time, 2 months after the first. See this post. The results were slightly less than the first time, suggesting that once every month or two is about right. Using it in the evening is recommended, as you may feel massive fatigue a few hours later. The purpose, of course, is to make room for new cells from your topped off stem cell pool.

[aribadabar]

Fafner, Quest, lost69 and everyone else who tried the various iterations posted in this thread:

 

Which version have you trialed, and if more than one, which one you found to be the most effective?

[Fafner55]

Fafner, Quest, lost69 and everyone else who tried the various iterations posted in this thread:

 

Which version have you trialed, and if more than one, which one you found to be the most effective?

 

The protocol I follow is, for 3 successive days / week, take

     10 g (2 tsp) Stearic acid, twice/day

      3 mg (1 tsp) C60 in MCT oil once/day

 

I intend to continue this weekly schedule for 20 to 30 or so cycles then decide on a longer term plan.

 

Since fasting potently stimulates stem cell proliferation, it might be best to begin a stem cell replenishment treatment the day following a fasting mimicking diet.

 

That my approach is different than Turnbuckle's is not a statement about which is better or more effective. I take fewer supplements simply so I can judge their effects with few complicating factors.

Edited by Fafner55, 22 July 2018 - 01:47 AM.

[lost69]

Fafner, Quest, lost69 and everyone else who tried the various iterations posted in this thread:

 

Which version have you trialed, and if more than one, which one you found to be the most effective?

i m using only updated protocol 2 (i also use GDF11) and since the results are incredible on muscles/bodymass and few fine wrinkles i have i am keeping it.

 

i was thinking about adding fasting after i saw max champie interview on sarah westall youtube chanel but i m not sure if it can boost results because i ve been told i cannot lose more weight at PRP clinic otherwise face brown fat can be lost and i d look older, maybe this protocol and swimming everyday is enough to burn all calories

 

as regards power it is much less than when i was using high dose C60 and i ve never experienced a fading effect from all that c60.swim coach noticed i m down vs that period.also brain is slower

Edited by lost69, 22 July 2018 - 11:10 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

as regards power it is much less than when i was using high dose C60 and i ve never experienced a fading effect from all that c60.swim coach noticed i m down vs that period.also brain is slower

 

 

If you were using more C60 for athletic performance, then by all means continue using the dose you need for that. It shouldn't hurt the stem cell protocol. 

[stephen_b]

Hi Turnbuckle. With the stem/satellite cell broken into two parts in post 326, any thoughts on how you would space the two out? Alternating days? Thoughts on how long to do this?

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Turnbuckle. With the stem/satellite cell broken into two parts in post 326, any thoughts on how you would space the two out? Alternating days? Thoughts on how long to do this?

 

 

 

One is for satellite cells and one (with C60) is for most everything else.* I suggest using them as needed as I doubt there is any sequence that would suit everyone. You should take breaks, however, as being in a state of mito fusion all the time is not good. Defective mitochondrial DNA loops build up and fission is how you get rid of them.

 

*There may be stem cell types with weird triggers that are presently unknown. 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 July 2018 - 09:14 AM.

[Graviton]

I would like to find the half life of TUDCA, but the reference is not clear.

In the original poster's protocol, is TUDCA usage singular? One time usage of TUDCA during this protocol?

 

Toxicity of UDCA paper

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19585548

 

The caution about liver burden is needed. Drinking alcohol after TUDCA supplement can worsen the toxicity of alcohol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14741743

Edited by Graviton, 25 July 2018 - 07:04 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I would like to find the half life of TUDCA, but the reference is not clear.

In the original poster's protocol, is TUDCA usage singular? One time usage of TUDCA during this protocol?

 

Toxicity of UDCA paper

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19585548

 

The caution about liver burden is needed. Drinking alcohol after TUDCA supplement can worsen the toxicity of alcohol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/14741743

 

 

Drinking alcohol is inadvisable while doing this stem cell protocol, period.

 

Alcohol and endogenous aldehydes damage chromosomes and mutate stem cells

Edited by Turnbuckle, 25 July 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[Graviton]

The thing is, the half life of TUDCA is not known.

How does one know when TUDCA is washed out in the system?

 

 

Another thing is, whether regularly taking TUDCA and cycloastragenol is good or bad after or before this protocol.

 

Cycloastragenol, which is included in the protocol, activates EGFR signaling in the study below.

 

 

AS-VI and CMG increased the proliferation and migration of skin cells via activation of the EGFR/ERK signalling pathway, resulting in the improvement of wound healing in vitro and in vivo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29425651

 

EGFR signaling promotes self-renewal through the establishment of cell polarity in Drosophila follicle stem cells.

 

 

Epithelial stem cells divide asymmetrically, such that one daughter replenishes the stem cell pool and the other differentiates. We found that, in the epithelial follicle stem cell (FSC) lineage of the Drosophila ovary, epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) signaling functions specifically in the FSCs to promote the unique partially polarized state of the FSC, establish apical–basal polarity throughout the lineage, and promote FSC maintenance in the niche.

https://elifescience.../articles/04437

 

 

Edited by Graviton, 25 July 2018 - 07:50 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

The thing is, the half life of TUDCA is not known.

How does one know when TUDCA is washed out in the system?

 

 

Another thing is, whether regularly taking TUDCA and cycloastragenol is good or bad after or before this protocol.

 

Cycloastragenol, which is included in the protocol, activates EGFR signaling in the study below.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29425651

 

EGFR signaling promotes self-renewal through the establishment of cell polarity in Drosophila follicle stem cells.

https://elifescience.../articles/04437

 

 

I included TUDCA because it was known to stimulate neural stem cells, but if you find it worrisome, don't use it. (Not that you can ever get rid of it completely as it is synthesized in the intestines by bacteria.) As for cycloastragenol, I don't use that apart from the protocol. I don't want to give any extra life to senescent cells

Edited by Turnbuckle, 25 July 2018 - 08:38 PM.

[Graviton]

 

 

As for cycloastragenol, I don't use that apart from the protocol. I don't want to give any extra life to senescent cells

 

Depending on age and personal medical history.

 

Then, does that mean you don't use TUDCA aside from the protocol?

Worry starts from the situation that someone who drinks infrequently may have circulating TUDCA if the half life TUDCA is long.