2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

Alongside this protocol, what do you think of regularly taking cycloastragenol and TUDCA for stem cell maintenance? Not just in the period of the protocol, but taking them daily basis

 

 

If the regular use of cycloastragenol rescues senescent cells, it will make you epigenetically older.

[Galthaar]

Turnbuckle

 

I´m 36 years old, do you think astragalus would make me epigenetically older? Also, I eat 100 grams per day of 100% chocolate bar (just cocoa powder and butter), do you think it can substitute stearic acid per se in your protocol?

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle

 

I´m 36 years old, do you think astragalus would make me epigenetically older? Also, I eat 100 grams per day of 100% chocolate bar (just cocoa powder and butter), do you think it can substitute stearic acid per se in your protocol?

 

 

Cocoa butter has about as much palmitic acid as stearic acid, and while stearic acid promotes fusion, palmitic acid promotes fission, nullifying what we want to do. As for making you epigenetically older, at 36 you won't see that for a long time, but anyone who seeks to lengthen their telomeres in all their cells may ultimately regret it. Those longer telomeres will put off senescence, letting cells grow epigenetically older than they would have and thus more dysfunctional. See Reversing the Clocks for my reasoning.

[lost69]

Turnbuckle
I did protocol to clear bad mitos 2days in a row in case mitoQ use made damage, but only git big boost of energy from 2g N+R, apigenin and so on, so i guess i had no detectable damage from mitoQ use which i stopped right away

I ve also had feedback not requested from 1 friend and 1 client who saw me before starting stemcell renewal and they both said i am clearly looking younger in just 12th round if this protocol (they know i take antiaging stuff because they saw me getting younger even previously).i also asked feedback from another friend that meets me frequently and he also confirmed this.so i guess your methylation dna reversal is happenjng to me too

I sometimes forget to avoid a teaspoon of cocoabutter in coffee for breakfast, i hope it doesn t interfere too much with stearic acid i always take no earlier than 4pm

I also plan to avoid cycloastragenol on your protocol because i took it almost non stop for 2years so maybe not so needed, what do you think about its dosage after your dna methylation results on 2 genes moving to older?

[lost69]

Turnbuckle
I did protocol to clear bad mitos 2days in a row in case mitoQ use made damage, but only got big boost of energy from 2g N+R, apigenin and so on, so i guess i had no detectable damage from mitoQ use which i stopped right away

I ve also had feedback not requested from 1 friend and 1 client who saw me before starting stemcell renewal and they both said i am clearly looking younger in just 12th round/3months of this protocol (they know i take antiaging stuff because they saw me getting younger even previously).i also asked feedback from another friend that meets me frequently and he also confirmed this.so i guess your methylation dna reversal is happenjng to me too

I sometimes forget to avoid a teaspoon of cocoabutter in coffee for breakfast, i hope it doesn t interfere too much with stearic acid i always take no earlier than 4pm

I also plan to avoid cycloastragenol on your protocol because i took it almost non stop for 2years so maybe not so needed, what do you think about its dosage after your dna methylation results on 2 genes moving to older?

Edited by lost69, 07 August 2018 - 11:21 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I also plan to avoid cycloastragenol on your protocol because i took it almost non stop for 2years so maybe not so needed, what do you think about its dosage after your dna methylation results on 2 genes moving to older?

 

 

That was my error in reading OG's data, which was spread out on 4 pages. Two genes actually moved to a younger age, but one was not significantly younger. One dropped dramatically. I believe that everyday use of cycloastragenol is not a good idea, but some use with this protocol is needed. I'm leaning to once every 2 or 3 times.

[QuestforLife]

Some potential alternatives to Stearic acid for altering the mitochondrial balance towards fusion:

 

Hydrogen Sulfide inhibits mitochondrial fission (likely the mechanism by which sulforaphane does the same)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28560384

 

Allicin (stabilized garlic extract) is a potent releaser of H2S, therefore not suprising that it does this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/26087780

 

[note stabilized allicin is widely available (see https://www.allimax.us/ and https://www.allicin.co.uk/)

, unlike stabilized sulforaphane (unless you are in France see http://www.prostaphane.com/)]

 

Finally Fish Oil increases Fusion, from 'High-Lard and High-Fish-Oil Diets Differ in Their Effects on Function and Dynamic Behaviour of Rat Hepatic Mitochondria', see:

 

http://journals.plos...al.pone.0092753

 

 

 

 

Edited by QuestforLife, 08 August 2018 - 08:18 AM.

[Graviton]

Fish oil looks interesting, but there is a still question of which of stearic acid or fish oil is more efficient for mitochondrial fusion.

It can be addressed with how much dosage of stearic acid or fish oil is needed for mitochondrial fusion.

Typical dose of fish oil would be 500mg ~ 1g, but stearic acid discussed in this thread would be about 10g, which is fairly large.

Edited by Graviton, 09 August 2018 - 04:13 AM.

[Heisok]

They used 21 gm of Cod Liver Oil or 21 gm of Lard.

 

Cod Liver oil does not equal Fish Oil supplements: "It is one of the best sources of omega 3 fatty acids (EPA and DHA), and it contains relatively high amounts of vitamin A and vitamin D."The exact concentration of nutrients in cod liver oil depends on the species of cod"

 

One analysis of Lard led to this break down: 38–43%: Palmitic acid: 25–28% Stearic acid: 12–14% Myristic acid: 1%  I believe Turnbuckle has mentioned that some of the other fatty acids interfere with the effects of his protocol. I think that people attempting to modify his work are getting away from the usefulness of the process.

 

Pure Stearic Acid cost me only $11 per 450 gm or 25 cents per dose

Turnbuckle, thanks for your work, and for expressing that it is early days, and that some individuals might want to wait for more results.

 

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Edited by Heisok, 09 August 2018 - 02:45 PM.

[Heisok]

It dawned on me that fats added turn out to be 21% of their feed. This feed only contained 51% of their standard diet. That leaves about 28% of the other additions which you can see in the illustration above.

[Blueflash]

Is there anything to substitute for the stearic acid since the quality of stearic acid is possibly questionable?

[Turnbuckle]

Is there anything to substitute for the stearic acid since the quality of stearic acid is possibly questionable?

 

So don't buy the Duda Energy product.

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle, I refused fullerenol, until clarifying the details.

 

I do not understand the following:

 

MitoQ has a positive effect, and at the same time reduces the production of ATP in the mitochondria.

Fullerenols also reduce the production of ATP, but reduce the risk of cancer.

SkQ1 is very similar to MitoQ and must also destabilize the mitochondrial membranes and reduce the production of ATP, but it cures cataracts!

 

Do not you think this is strange?

[Kentavr]

 

Turnbuckle, I refused fullerenol, until clarifying the details.

 

I do not understand the following:

 

MitoQ has a positive effect, and at the same time reduces the production of ATP in the mitochondria.

Fullerenols also reduce the production of ATP, but reduce the risk of cancer.

SkQ1 is very similar to MitoQ and must also destabilize the mitochondrial membranes and reduce the production of ATP, but it cures cataracts!

 

Do not you think this is strange?

 

 

Perhaps, and "C60evoo or mct" destabilizes the membrane of the mitochondria?

 

I'm talking seriously!

[Turnbuckle]

Sorry, kent. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

[Kentavr]

They are not equivalent. Fullerenols are hydrophilic while fullerenes are hydrophobic, resulting in different effects on mito mebranes. While fullerene C60 appears to reduce the loss of H+, at least one fullerenol appears to increase it, resulting in toxicity--

 

Turnbuckle, you talked about the toxicity of fullerenols.

However, in other studies, many positive effects of fullerenols are mentioned:

 

https://www.hindawi....i/2013/751913/ 

https://www.scienced...005273613001557

http://www.thno.org/v02p0238.htm

 

 

PQQ is probably all right but I haven't used it yet with this. As for MitoQ, I'm surprised that anyone would use it after the recent evidence of its toxicity.

 

Turnbuckle, you also wrote about MitoQ

But... MitoQ "makes old blood vessels seem young again":

 

https://www.scienced...80419141523.htm

 

 

SkQ1 differs from MitoQ only in that it has a shorter molecule.

The principle is the same. But ... he cures cataracts, and also gives a huge amount of energy (according to Academician Skulachev, who takes it)

 

Water "svetla" also gave me a lot of energy.

 

--- 

Now the question is:

 

Oil "C60evoo" or "C60mct+HT" also attracts "HT" - that is, the fullerene concentrates around the OH group.

It turns out a molecule that slightly resembles fullerenol

 

Perhaps the molecule formed also destabilizes the membrane?

 

 

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle

 

I mean that even C60, together with HT, can have the effect of destabilizing the membrane, as well as fullerenols.

However, this does not prevent you from applying the resulting molecular adduct (С60 + HT) in your therapy.

 

 

Edited by Kentavr, 17 August 2018 - 07:51 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle

 

I mean that even C60, together with HT, can have the effect of destabilizing the membrane, as well as fullerenols.

However, this does not prevent you from applying the resulting molecular adduct (С60 + HT) in your therapy.

 

Sorry. I don't see how they are anything alike. 

[Kentavr]

fullerene + ht = adduct (fullerene:ht) with OH-groups

[Turnbuckle]

fullerene + ht = adduct (fullerene:ht) with OH-groups

 

Ah, no. Not even close to a fullerenol. This discussion is pointless. If you want to continue it, start a new thread.

[Graviton]

So don't buy the Duda Energy product.

Do you have any reason for avoiding that?

They seem to have CoA on their website.

[Kentavr]

Ah, no. Not even close to a fullerenol. This discussion is pointless. If you want to continue it, start a new thread.

what is your assumption about c60 and HT?

[QuestforLife]

I wonder how possible it will be to measure enlargement of the stem cell pool using the available epigenetic age tests?

A blood test for example will be measuring the epigenetic markers of short lived (in some cases only days) immune or blood cells, so it is in fact measuring the epigenetic age of haemopoietic stem cells. Expanding this blood stem cell pool would not have much effect on the epigenetic age of their differentiated progeny - even if it is very beneficial to health.

It might be better to measure the effects using more traditional blood tests measuring white and red blood cell counts, for example, or markers of inflammation.

I am not sure what cell type the urine or buccal epigenetic tests are measuring - if it is a longer lived cell then we might be able to better measure the success of this protocol.

[Turnbuckle]

I wonder how possible it will be to measure enlargement of the stem cell pool using the available epigenetic age tests?

A blood test for example will be measuring the epigenetic markers of short lived (in some cases only days) immune or blood cells, so it is in fact measuring the epigenetic age of haemopoietic stem cells. Expanding this blood stem cell pool would not have much effect on the epigenetic age of their differentiated progeny - even if it is very beneficial to health.

It might be better to measure the effects using more traditional blood tests measuring white and red blood cell counts, for example, or markers of inflammation.

I am not sure what cell type the urine or buccal epigenetic tests are measuring - if it is a longer lived cell then we might be able to better measure the success of this protocol.

 

 

As for hematopoietic stem cells, these apparently come in 2 varieties--

 

Hematopoietic stem

cells (HSCs) residing at the bone marrow are primarily

responsible for the daily maintenance of hematopoietic

homeostasis during adulthood [48]. Two types of HSC

states coexist, a quiescent population thought to constitute

a long-term reservoir for injury repair, and an

actively dividing short-term subset mainly responsible

for the daily sustenance of haematopoiesis...

https://febs.onlinel...1111/febs.12946

 

 

 

Thus the impact of this treatment for SCs already actively dividing is expected to be small, but much larger if the reserve source is expanded. 

[Nate-2004]

Do you have any reason for avoiding that?

They seem to have CoA on their website.

 

I'm curious about that too, I saw a review saying it turned out to only be half stearic half palmitic acid. I don't know if that's true but if it is, not sure if there's another, better source. This happens to be the one I bought. Looking around and I'm not seeing anything good.

[RWhigham]

Problem

Andey discovered here that commercial "Food Grade Stearic Acid" is less than 50% stearic acid (and over 50% palmitic acid). The current thinking on this thread is that palmitic acid can negate the effect of stearic acid (otherwise, one could use cocoa butter)

 

But Is It a Problem?

Before I throw out my "Food Grade Stearic Acid" I'd like to know if any of the good results posted in this thread resulted with "Food Grade Stearic Acid".

 

The Good Stuff

Further down from the link above to Andey's discovery is a link to 97% pure reagent quality stearic acid CAS 57-11-4.  However, 1 kg is about  $50 US (after shipping, taxes, and "fuel-surcharge") compared to about $16 for the food grade from Amazon..

 

My Experience with Food Grade

I have not noticed anything significant after consuming about 20 brownies made from Food Grade Stearic acid.

Edited by RWhigham, 18 August 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[Fafner55]

I've taken the food grade Duda Energy product for 8 three day cycles of 2 tsp in the morning and evening with good results. On day 2 I have much higher energy, which is consistent with mito fusion. 

 

As this protocol is effective and for me remarkably beneficial, in my view if it can be improved or made more reliable with a purer product that is well worth an extra $34/kg.

 

[ambivalent]

What of saaqin stearic acid, anyone else used it?

[Graviton]

I'm curious about that too, I saw a review saying it turned out to only be half stearic half palmitic acid. I don't know if that's true but if it is, not sure if there's another, better source. This happens to be the one I bought. Looking around and I'm not seeing anything good.

"This happens to be the one I bought"

What happened to the one you bought? Can you clarify what was happening?

[stephen_b]

My Experience with Food Grade

I have not noticed anything significant after consuming about 20 brownies made from Food Grade Stearic acid.

 

I've had negative experiences with the Duda, whereas I was expecting it to be noticeable when transitioning from fission- to fusion-promoting supplements. To prove it to myself, I would like to try 100% stearic for comparison.