2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

 

Using a box mix that calls for 2/3 cups of oil, I cut that back to 2 tablespoons and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Then I mix at room temp using a power mixer, baking according to directions, dividing it 3x4 and freezing most of it for later use.

 

 

 

[Graviton]

This is a kind of things mentioned earlier.

TUDCA in this protocol is still lingering in my mind. There is a suggestion that taking TUDCA may change lipid membrane, and following alcohol consumption(beside this protocol period) can negatively affect. UDCA seems to have a long half life, and it doesn't necessarily mean that taking alcohol is OK after TUDCA is somehow reduced in the body. Since there is a caution that it may systematically change the lipid membrane, it has to be cautious even after it is significantly reduced. In other words, even if someone is intermittent or moderate drinker and even if alcohol is taken beside this protocol period(after some long time period of this protocol), there is a possibility that alcohol induced liver damage can be worsen than before due to the change caused by TUDCA.

 

So, is this protocol for non alcohol-drinkers? This is a worry, and there is no clue why TUDCA worsen the alcohol induced liver damage in the previously quoted study.

Edited by Graviton, 09 November 2018 - 12:14 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

This is a kind of things mentioned earlier.

TUDCA in this protocol is still lingering in my mind. There is a suggestion that taking TUDCA may change lipid membrane, and following alcohol consumption(beside this protocol period) can negatively affect. UDCA seems to have a long half life, and it doesn't necessarily mean that taking alcohol is OK after TUDCA is somehow reduced in the body. Since there is a caution that it may systematically change the lipid membrane, it has to be cautious even after it is significantly reduced. In other words, even if someone is intermittent or moderate drinker and even if alcohol is taken beside this protocol period(after some long time period of this protocol), there is a possibility that alcohol induced liver damage can be worsen than before due to the change caused by TUDCA.

 

So, is this protocol for non alcohol-drinkers? This is a worry, and there is no clue why TUDCA worsen the alcohol induced liver damage in the previously quoted study.

 

 

I'm thinking of taking it out for that reason. I'm presently experimenting with combining the stem cell protocol with the mito protocol, sans TUDCA. It seems to work, but it really jacks up the BP.

[Turnbuckle]

An experimental protocol combining stem cell proliferation with mito biogenesis —

 

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment, not for young people.

3. While this should be less sensitive to alcohol use than previously, one should still avoid alcohol the same day.

4. I don’t have much experience with this combination yet. I will post the complementary senescent-cell/defective-mito clearance part later.

 

  

 

Stem cell self-renewal with mito biogenesis

This is where stem cell pools and mito numbers are expanded

 

Time 0 —

*Stearic acid — 10 g (in hot chocolate or brownie)

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

SAM-e — 200 mg

 

  

Time 3:00 —

**Leucine — 5-10 g

**Curcumin phytosome — .5-1 g

Threonine — 10 g

PQQ — 20mg

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

C60 — 3 mg (in EVOO or MCT oil) 

 

 

*Stearic acid is a waxy substance with a high melting point. It will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 2/3 cups of oil, cut that to 2 tablespoons and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use.

 

**Leucine stimulates both mito biogenesis and stem cell proliferation, but may increase blood pressure through mTOR upregulation. I’ve added curcumin as it downregulates mTOR. If BP is not a problem, then curcumin can be deleted, however, curcumin also increases the effect of exercise on biogenesis.

 

 

Curcumin treatment enhances the effect of exercise on mitochondrial biogenesis in skeletal muscle by increasing cAMP levels.

 

Differential regulation of mTORC1 by leucine and glutamine

Leucine (Leu) (2, 4, 5), glutamine (Gln) (5–7), and arginine (Arg) (2) have been implicated in mTORC1 activation.

 

Hitting the Golden TORget: Curcumin’s Effects on mTOR Signaling

It appears that curcumin inhibits both mTORC1 and mTORC2, but in a concentration-dependent manner.

 

 

[orion22]

An experimental protocol combining stem cell proliferation with mito biogenesis —

 

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment, not for young people.

3. While this should be less sensitive to alcohol use than previously, one should still avoid alcohol the same day.

4. I don’t have much experience with this combination yet. I will post the complementary senescent-cell/defective-mito clearance part later.

 

  

 

Stem cell self-renewal with mito biogenesis

This is where stem cell pools and mito numbers are expanded

 

Time 0 —

*Stearic acid — 10 g (in hot chocolate or brownie)

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

SAM-e — 200 mg

 

  

Time 3:00 —

**Leucine — 5-10 g

**Curcumin phytosome — .5-1 g

Threonine — 10 g

PQQ — 20mg

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

C60 — 3 mg (in EVOO or MCT oil) 

 

 

*Stearic acid is a waxy substance with a high melting point. It will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 2/3 cups of oil, cut that to 2 tablespoons and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use.

 

**Leucine stimulates both mito biogenesis and stem cell proliferation, but may increase blood pressure through mTOR upregulation. I’ve added curcumin as it downregulates mTOR. If BP is not a problem, then curcumin can be deleted, however, curcumin also increases the effect of exercise on biogenesis.

 

 

Curcumin treatment enhances the effect of exercise on mitochondrial biogenesis in skeletal muscle by increasing cAMP levels.

 

Differential regulation of mTORC1 by leucine and glutamine

Leucine (Leu) (2, 4, 5), glutamine (Gln) (5–7), and arginine (Arg) (2) have been implicated in mTORC1 activation.

 

Hitting the Golden TORget: Curcumin’s Effects on mTOR Signaling

It appears that curcumin inhibits both mTORC1 and mTORC2, but in a concentration-dependent manner.

didn t you say you are giving up on pqq because it dose something to prevent fusion you started with pqq than later you said it prevent fusion don t remember why and you gave up on it 

[Turnbuckle]

didn t you say you are giving up on pqq because it dose something to prevent fusion you started with pqq than later you said it prevent fusion don t remember why and you gave up on it 

 

I don't recall that.

[orion22]

I don't recall that.

its in this very thread search for it 

[Turnbuckle]

its in this very thread search for it 

 

Post a link, please. You made the assertion.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 09 November 2018 - 09:11 PM.

[orion22]

Another apparent benefit of this protocol —

 

For a couple of decades I’ve seen a distortion in the Amsler grid -- wavy lines in one area of one eye. This was stable so I didn’t worry about it, and last year it was still there. Yesterday I noticed it was gone. Now the grid looks regular and flat in both eyes.   

———————

 

Stem cell self-renewal protocol, update 3

 

 

Time 0 (suggested 3 hours before bedtime, on empty stomach) —

Astragalus root extract powder — 5 g

 

Optional —

Cycloastragenol — 10 mg

 

Time 1:00 —

Stearic acid — 10 g, in brownie or hot chocolate (post #7)

 

Time 2:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg

Jiaogulan — 800 mg (or LEF brand AMPK activator)

L-Threonine — 5 g

Taurine — 5 g

ALA — 600 mg

Vitamin C — 2 g (extended release)

NAC — 600 mg (extended release)

 

Time 3:00 —

C60 — 1 teaspoon of .6 mg/ml in oil, 3 mg C60

———————

 

Notes:

 

1. Since stem cells shut down their mitochondria, creating new mitochondria during the protocol might be a mistake, thus I eliminated the PQQ. This increased the transient fatigue that comes hours later, yet the results seem better. Conversely, when I added one supplement that eliminated fatigue, I got no apparent benefit.

 

The fatigue may be from low blood pressure.

 

2. I’m now using extended release C & NAC. I like this combination for general purposes.

here it is

i didn t know where it was i had to go find it was hard to forget since i never take pqq when i take c60 after i read this 

Edited by orion22, 09 November 2018 - 09:20 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

here it is

 

 

I said it might be a mistake because of a speculative reason re stem cells, not because it prevents fusion. PQQ does not prevent fusion. But with PQQ and threonine at 10 grams there is no fatigue, and with the addition of luciene the results are superior to either protocol alone. Of course that is only an initial impression. Time will tell.

[tolerant]

Experiment with satellite cell self-renewal, update 1

 

...

Sulforaphane glucosinolate — 100 mg (supplies ≈ 40 mg sulforaphane)

 

...

 

Can I please ask, where did you get the figure of 40 mg? You said elsewhere that you use Crucera-SGS by Thorne. I reached out to Thorne asking them how much sulforaphane was in their products and received the following reply:

 

"Crucera-SGS is derived from broccoli seed extract. Each capsule of Thorne's Crucera-SGS is equivalent to eating two pounds of cooked broccoli. However, it contains 50 mg of SGS, derived from broccoli seed extract."

[lost69]

turnbuckle

 

i restarted stemcell renewal protocol using sigma aldrich stearic acid w303518 food grade (i was about 1-2months off of it for infrared light use and senolytic protocol) and i found it different from duda, it didn t melt like duda just adding hot avena milk, anyway this is not important.i used 10g mixed with soia lectin, raw cocoa, avena milk (lectin makes mild nausea but you said previously it is needed for absorption), my c60 dose 15ml (i use this because it gives more swimming power) and the other supplements

 

i felt almost nothing on day 1 and 2, from day 3 mild throatache (i have a severe reflux problem and hiatal hernia maybe c60 neutralized PPI antiacid or maybe i just got a virus).from day 4 i gained an extreme swimming power/breathing capacity too early to tell if it is like earlier protocol or more i need to swim more to compare but this time the effect was very fast from day 2 to day 3 it was like a different body.

eyesight worsen off c60 and i could not read anything small without glasses (phone, pc and so on) today i could read newspaper without glasses using electric led light, previously i could read newspaper only under strong sun light but not electric lights.today i could also read PC and phone not perfect clear but i can read it slowly.this is a huge step ahead for my eyes

 

do you suggest to try 24g of stearic acid like the sigma study?is soia lectin still very necessary for absorption even with this purity of stearic acid?

 

this could be all subjective and due to the senolytic protocol or to the fact i was off c60 so long so posts from other members will clarify if there is such a difference with w303518 food grade

 

by the way infrared light was good only for face skin, thyroid even worsen a little tsh from 7 to 8 and ft4 a little less than normal range.for me it doens t worth the cost

 

thanks

 

 

[lost69]

since i am 49yo (almost 50yo) i plan to use this protocol for short periods as you suggested and then go for c60 alone or c60 senolytic protocol

[lost69]

today i tried a higher dose of 20g sigma stearic acid but i could not finish it, it made a strong nausea while drinking, the taste was terrible.

i ate salty pistachios to try and finish the last one tea spoon left.....but i was about to throw up and left it.my guess is avena milk or soia lectin made it too sweet or stearic acid itself is too sweet in that amount

 

any suggestions on how to make it easier to drink it?maybe blend it with soia lectin and fruit instead of varoius milks/cocoa and drink it fast to avoid the taste?between bitter and too sweet i definitely favour bitter...

Edited by lost69, 29 November 2018 - 06:37 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

1. Stearic acid has little taste. Eating it raw is useless.

2. I've found that ten grams of food grade is sufficient. I've typically used 10-12.

3. I suggest you put the stearic acid into brownies. I've given the recipe in at least 2 updates.

4. The "purity" of stearic acid is almost meaningless, as has been previously discussed. Stearic acid you can buy retail is a triglyceride with 40-60% stearic and the balance palmitic acid. Doesn't matter if it is technical, food or USP grades, it will still have the palmitic acid. 

5. I don't recommend more than a dozen treatments or so initially. I did a lot more than that, but I didn't see any advantage.

6. If you don't use C60 in a mito fusion state, you could deplete your stem cell pools rather than increase them.

7. Removing senescent cells is the other half of the coin. You can't lower epigenetic age much without getting rid of them.

8. Avoid telomerase supplements, as telomerase allows old cells to become older before senescence. I added that in early on and then took it out when I realized it was a mistake.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 29 November 2018 - 07:15 PM.

[lost69]

thanks i ll look for that recipe, i'm sure nausea is due to sweetness of avena milk/soia lectine, not the stearic acid

 

just wanted to experiment with the same doses 20-24g used in the sigma study and see what happens, anyway i definitely need to try a new recipe now for both 10g or more and get rid of avena milk

 

i think some senescence cells got removed, i used senolytic protocol plus infrared light for about 2 months and i have seen HRV parameters moving up, BP down

 

i was using old protocol with Cycloastragenol 3 times a week during the stemcell protocol.i ll stop using it

 

1. Stearic acid has little taste. Eating it raw is useless.

2. I've found that ten grams of food grade is sufficient. I've typically used 10-12.

3. I suggest you put the stearic acid into brownies. I've given the recipe in at least 2 updates.

4. The "purity" of stearic acid is almost meaningless, as has been previously discussed. Stearic acid you can buy retail is a triglyceride with 40-60% stearic and the balance palmitic acid. Doesn't matter if it is technical, food or USP grades, it will still have the palmitic acid. 

5. I don't recommend more than a dozen treatments or so initially. I did a lot more than that, but I didn't see any advantage.

6. If you don't use C60 in a mito fusion state, you could deplete your stem cell pools rather than increase them.

7. Removing senescent cells is the other half of the coin. You can't lower epigenetic age much without getting rid of them.

8. Avoid telomerase supplements, as telomerase allows old cells to become older before senescence. I added that in early on and then took it out when I realized it was a mistake.

 

[Graviton]

1. Stearic acid has little taste. Eating it raw is useless.

2. I've found that ten grams of food grade is sufficient. I've typically used 10-12.

3. I suggest you put the stearic acid into brownies. I've given the recipe in at least 2 updates.

4. The "purity" of stearic acid is almost meaningless, as has been previously discussed. Stearic acid you can buy retail is a triglyceride with 40-60% stearic and the balance palmitic acid. Doesn't matter if it is technical, food or USP grades, it will still have the palmitic acid. 

5. I don't recommend more than a dozen treatments or so initially. I did a lot more than that, but I didn't see any advantage.

6. If you don't use C60 in a mito fusion state, you could deplete your stem cell pools rather than increase them.

7. Removing senescent cells is the other half of the coin. You can't lower epigenetic age much without getting rid of them.

8. Avoid telomerase supplements, as telomerase allows old cells to become older before senescence. I added that in early on and then took it out when I realized it was a mistake.

Why do you say "the purity of stearic acid is almost meaningless"?

 

About a half of palmitic acid may counteract moving to the fusion state by stearic acid. And, this was the problem of getting purer stearic acid.

[lost69]

Why do you say "the purity of stearic acid is almost meaningless"?

 

About a half of palmitic acid may counteract moving to the fusion state by stearic acid. And, this was the problem of getting purer stearic acid.

 

i guess he meant all retail stearic acid is never pure whatever they decleare the product to be, so far we only found sigma aldrich stearic acid W303518 or S4751 but it cannot be bought by individuals or companies except research

[Turnbuckle]

Why do you say "the purity of stearic acid is almost meaningless"?

 

About a half of palmitic acid may counteract moving to the fusion state by stearic acid. And, this was the problem of getting purer stearic acid.

 

The way this industry grew up, the "purity" of stearic acid doesn't refer to the amount of stearic acid in it, thus when some company advertises their product as 99% pure, that is meaningless. It could be 40% stearic acid. Ideal would be stearic acid as a free acid, but I haven't seen that anywhere retail, and it seems very expensive through chem supply houses. There is also stearine, which is a triglyceride with all stearic acid moieties. That is said to have very low bioavailability, though perhaps cooking it into brownies might improve it. I see that Amazon now sells one brand from Yaley Enterprises for candle making. I have no idea if this is actual stearine.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 30 November 2018 - 12:34 PM.

[lost69]

1. Stearic acid has little taste. Eating it raw is useless.

2. I've found that ten grams of food grade is sufficient. I've typically used 10-12.

3. I suggest you put the stearic acid into brownies. I've given the recipe in at least 2 updates.

4. The "purity" of stearic acid is almost meaningless, as has been previously discussed. Stearic acid you can buy retail is a triglyceride with 40-60% stearic and the balance palmitic acid. Doesn't matter if it is technical, food or USP grades, it will still have the palmitic acid. 

5. I don't recommend more than a dozen treatments or so initially. I did a lot more than that, but I didn't see any advantage.

6. If you don't use C60 in a mito fusion state, you could deplete your stem cell pools rather than increase them.

7. Removing senescent cells is the other half of the coin. You can't lower epigenetic age much without getting rid of them.

8. Avoid telomerase supplements, as telomerase allows old cells to become older before senescence. I added that in early on and then took it out when I realized it was a mistake.

 

as i thought i cannot stand soia lectine anymore but i can t cook outside some easy italian stuff, never used a oven

brownies is totally new stuff although it looks easy, so i could end up with anything wrong.

 

is it the same if i mix a choccolate bar or raw cocoa with milk, butter, some oil, heat, blend well and drink?

 

i did this today with 6g soia but as i get soia taste heavy nausea comes back

Edited by lost69, 30 November 2018 - 06:18 PM.

[QuestforLife]

I just came up with a new way to eat stearic acid (this is the pure stuff lost69 got on group order).

Compared to the mango butter I used previously (which was about half oleic), which you could melt in an emulsion or even spread directly), the stearic acid was pretty difficult to deal with. Making an emulsion in water wasn't possible if you needed to be able to drink it without scalding yourself.

So I put it (24 grams) in a little milk with 2 eggs and scrambled the lot. The result was very palatable and i didn't even notice any difference from normal scrambled egg apart from a small amount I allowed to cool down, which seemed a little rubbery.

[lost69]

I just came up with a new way to eat stearic acid (this is the pure stuff lost69 got on group order).

Compared to the mango butter I used previously (which was about half oleic), which you could melt in an emulsion or even spread directly), the stearic acid was pretty difficult to deal with. Making an emulsion in water wasn't possible if you needed to be able to drink it without scalding yourself.

So I put it (24 grams) in a little milk with 2 eggs and scrambled the lot. The result was very palatable and i didn't even notice any difference from normal scrambled egg apart from a small amount I allowed to cool down, which seemed a little rubbery.

 

just tried your recipe with 24g, it is esier to eat but i think it is better far away from main meals...2 eggs, all that stearic acid and the butter..it feels like a full meal

Edited by lost69, 01 December 2018 - 06:48 PM.

[Rocket]

Why is "raw" stearic acid useless? Whether its heated and melted or not, its the same chemical passing through the digestive system.

[QuestforLife]

just tried your recipe with 24g, it is esier to eat but i think it is better far away from main meals...2 eggs, all that stearic acid and the butter..it feels like a full meal

True. It is very filling. I add some bacon and make it a big breakfast.

[Graviton]

I just came up with a new way to eat stearic acid (this is the pure stuff lost69 got on group order).

Compared to the mango butter I used previously (which was about half oleic), which you could melt in an emulsion or even spread directly), the stearic acid was pretty difficult to deal with. Making an emulsion in water wasn't possible if you needed to be able to drink it without scalding yourself.

So I put it (24 grams) in a little milk with 2 eggs and scrambled the lot. The result was very palatable and i didn't even notice any difference from normal scrambled egg apart from a small amount I allowed to cool down, which seemed a little rubbery.

Suggestion and advice are appreciated. However, I have a concern about adding some milk and eggs. Milk and eggs are some source of palmitic acid with some portion of stearic acid. For this protocol, isn't the purpose of getting high purity of stearic acid to avoid palmitic acid content? In such senses, wouldn't eggs and milk oppose the effect of stearic acid?

Edited by Graviton, 03 December 2018 - 12:14 AM.

[QuestforLife]

Suggestion and advice are appreciated. However, I have a concern about adding some milk and eggs. Milk and eggs are some source of palmitic acid with some portion of stearic acid. For this protocol, isn't the purpose of getting high purity of stearic acid to avoid palmitic acid content? In such senses, wouldn't eggs and milk oppose the effect of stearic acid?

To make SA palatable you really have to mix it with something, and in the human study they did it in milk, and it worked for fusion, so I'm not overly concerned.

I am also of the opinion that fatty oxidation of other components such as palmitic acid will occur, so long as sufficient stearic acid is present to trigger the process.

[ambivalent]

Turnbuckle, I've noted in another thread you mentioned that there were no benefits above a dozen or so rounds of your protocol, would you describe what benefits have been retained wrt pre-protocol and which gains were not sustained?

 

Additionally, one of the risks you've identified with taking c60 is depletion of stem cell pool, doesn't it therefore also correspond that those taking c60 are more likely to increase accumulation of senescent cells (unless autophagy is implicitly improved)?   

[Rocket]

To make SA palatable you really have to mix it with something, and in the human study they did it in milk, and it worked for fusion, so I'm not overly concerned.

I am also of the opinion that fatty oxidation of other components such as palmitic acid will occur, so long as sufficient stearic acid is present to trigger the process.

Mine goes into the blender in a protein shake. Its so finely ground you can hardly tell its there and has no flavor.

[Turnbuckle]

Mine goes into the blender in a protein shake. Its so finely ground you can hardly tell its there and has no flavor.

 

That's likely has no value in increasing its bioavailability. Even particles you can't see have billions of molecules, and as stearic/palmitic acid triglycerides only melt high above body temperature, the digestive system's emulsifying agents can't get into those particles to break them up. So you have to break them up into molecular size in advance or they will just pass through. Thus eating them or adding them to peanut butter or doing what you're doing in a blender isn't going to do the job.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 December 2018 - 11:41 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, I've noted in another thread you mentioned that there were no benefits above a dozen or so rounds of your protocol, would you describe what benefits have been retained wrt pre-protocol and which gains were not sustained?

 

Additionally, one of the risks you've identified with taking c60 is depletion of stem cell pool, doesn't it therefore also correspond that those taking c60 are more likely to increase accumulation of senescent cells (unless autophagy is implicitly improved)?   

 

 

I said the bolded part on this thread. It appears that (1) there may be some mechanism that prevents stem cell pools from growing without bound, (2) once stem cell pools become filled some things will be repaired that had gone without repair due to stem cell deficiency, but to proceed further with deaging it is necessary to kill off old cells as stem cells aren't going to replace anything unless there is a slot for them, and (3) telomerase stimulants are a mistake as non-stem cells are doing most of dividing in many organs and resetting their telomeres adds to epigenetic aging. For example, in the skin these are transit amplifying cells. See this post in "Reversing the Clocks."

 

In my opinion epigenetic aging due to epimutations is the most important root cause of aging while telomeric aging is illusionary. Telomeres are useful and necessary measures of aging. They are like the sell by dates on produce. They don't tell you that a particular item is bad, but that a certain unacceptable number of them will be bad and for the store to get rid of them. Imagine if a store started slapping new sell by date stickers on produce. They could increase their profitability in the short term, but in the long term they would be put out of business. Same thing with cells. Short telomeres cause senescence that starts the program of self destruction, but past a certain age this process gets out of hand when the Hayflick limit is reached in great numbers, causing a chain reaction of apoptosis-resistant senescent cells forcing nearby cells to turn senescent and so on. Aging then proceeds at an accelerating rate.

 

So the goal of deaging requires the refilling of stem cell pools, but also requires the elimination of old cells. Either one by itself is inadequate.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 December 2018 - 12:00 PM.