2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

One of the steps in apoptosis is said to be the fragmentation of mitochondria. Apigenin fissions (fragments) mitochondria, as does resveratrol (in contrast to your link, which indicates the opposite). Still, you raise an interesting point as both cucurmin and butyrate are both said to cause mito fusion and yet result in apoptosis. So it seems likely that this protocol could oriented to either cancer or senescent cells merely by biasing to either fusion (with stearic acid instead of apigenin) or fission (with apigenin). Fusion is known to be bad for cancer cells, but fission is said to be bad for senescent cells, though fission per se is not going to kill them. 

 

 

I tried my own suggestion--replacing fission with fusion in this senlyoic protocol--and found that it had no discernable effect. Of course, even if it did kill cancer cells I wouldn't know it as there are so few being produced compared to senescent cells. Estimates vary, but there are something like a million cells dying every second with a large fraction likely due to senescence, while a single cancer cell may pop up once every few minutes. So that's an 8-orders of magnitude difference. One wouldn't likely notice anything unless there was a tumor of some size. 

[Turnbuckle]

This is an interesting paper on VSEL's

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6013546/

 

It seems that there are some unknowns about how VSEL's function in vivo. Do VSEL populations diminish with age?  If we assume that they do, and can be renewed via stem cell self renewal protocol, I still wonder:

 

From the paper:

 

"In addition, the main problem with the use of VSELs in regenerative medicine is their quiescence and limited number [17]. The ability of VSELs to expand in vitro is very limited, and requires a better understanding of their biology in order to stimulate their proliferative capacity without affecting their pluripotency"

 

But this is pretty darn exciting:

 

"When VSELs are induced to differentiate in co-cultures with a C2C12 supportive cell-line, a unique pattern in imprinted gene methylation is reverted that may explain in part VSELs quiescent status"

 

That's pretty interesting wouldn't you say?

 

 

These cells appear to have a unique strategy for maintaining their quiescent status, but the important thing is they can be stimulated into self-renewal and then used to replace epigenetically old cells. That they are actually the target is suggested by the positive effect I've seen using threonine in the protocol, which is the critical nutrient for embryonic stem cells, but not for adult stem cells.

[QuestforLife]

These cells appear to have a unique strategy for maintaining their quiescent status, but the important thing is they can be stimulated into self-renewal and then used to replace epigenetically old cells. That they are actually the target is suggested by the positive effect I've seen using threonine in the protocol, which is the critical nutrient for embryonic stem cells, but not for adult stem cells.

 

Stearic acid seems to have a cumulative tiredness effect on me - both after a single dose and (especially) after dosing multiple times, either per day or on multiple consecutive days. I've gone up to 4 or 5 days in a row and I was dead on my feet. Threonine seems to ameliorate but not eliminate this effect.

[Turnbuckle]

Stearic acid seems to have a cumulative tiredness effect on me - both after a single dose and (especially) after dosing multiple times, either per day or on multiple consecutive days. I've gone up to 4 or 5 days in a row and I was dead on my feet. Threonine seems to ameliorate but not eliminate this effect.

 

Are you using this with the protocol?

[QuestforLife]

Are you using this with the protocol?

 

Loosely. Mostly I've just taken stearic acid in a hot chocolate of my own devising to ascertain it's effects. Have taken it and C60 in olive oil (separated by a few hours), but now experimenting with it on it's own, aside from the threonine, which I added for the fatigue.

 

I've separately (in December '18) experimented with azythromycin as a senolytic, but not specifically followed your senolytic protocol.

 

It makes sense to me that any up-regulation in stem cell renewal, if successful, must come at a cost in current fitness, because all other things being equal tissue replenishment will be reduced.  But the fatigue could equally be due to something else. I generally would expect better energy from mitochondrial fusion however, so I'm optimistic it's having the desired effect.

[Rocket]

Hot chocolate? Lately I throw in about 15g into scrambled eggs (with coconut oil). I never feel the fatigue however. I am also using c60 and tudca and recently ran out of leucine.

At first when starting the regimen my weight went down about 5 pounds, but whatever caused that has stopped. I monitor my weight and there was a correlation. I was hoping my body was going through recomp, but i have nothing positive or negative to report withthe regimen.

I was hoping that it would be like a low dose of hgh in positive effects, but nothing beats 2-3iu of hgh for noticeable anti aging effects. Wonder how hgh would mesh with this protocol?

Hot chocolate though? That doesn't sound appealing! its almost "invisible" mixed with eggs.

Edited by Rocket, 19 January 2019 - 02:18 AM.

[QuestforLife]

Hot chocolate? Lately I throw in about 15g into scrambled eggs (with coconut oil). I never feel the fatigue however. I am also using c60 and tudca and recently ran out of leucine.

At first when starting the regimen my weight went down about 5 pounds, but whatever caused that has stopped. I monitor my weight and there was a correlation. I was hoping my body was going through recomp, but i have nothing positive or negative to report withthe regimen.

I was hoping that it would be like a low dose of hgh in positive effects, but nothing beats 2-3iu of hgh for noticeable anti aging effects. Wonder how hgh would mesh with this protocol?

Hot chocolate though? That doesn't sound appealing! its almost "invisible" mixed with eggs.

Yes, I suggested the scrambled egg thing some time ago, but I now prefer about 10g in full fat milk or cream and a couple of blocks of 90% dark chocolate. It dissolves well with about 1 min 30 secs in the microwave. This seemed to have a much quicker effect on me than the scrambled eggs in terms of the fatigue.

I eat a keto diet and this is a good adjunct. Stearic acid upregulates fatty acid oxidation (as per the in Vivo study posted upthread), which is probably related to its effects on mitochondria, and is likely responsible for your weight loss.

I'm still trying to assess the results. I've had some funny reactions, the fatigue (reduced by threonine), a relaxation in the body that is related to the fatigue, and a few other things that I need to repeat. I've also had some good cognitive effects when including C60 in the protocol. Otherwise I have nothing to report.

[lost69]

Yes, I suggested the scrambled egg thing some time ago, but I now prefer about 10g in full fat milk or cream and a couple of blocks of 90% dark chocolate. It dissolves well with about 1 min 30 secs in the microwave. This seemed to have a much quicker effect on me than the scrambled eggs in terms of the fatigue.

I eat a keto diet and this is a good adjunct. Stearic acid upregulates fatty acid oxidation (as per the in Vivo study posted upthread), which is probably related to its effects on mitochondria, and is likely responsible for your weight loss.

I'm still trying to assess the results. I've had some funny reactions, the fatigue (reduced by threonine), a relaxation in the body that is related to the fatigue, and a few other things that I need to repeat. I've also had some good cognitive effects when including C60 in the protocol. Otherwise I have nothing to report.

 

i also experinced about 3-4kg weight loss but this is not very good because i was slim baseline just some fat on waist (body actually looking more like a very young person now but this is not good on face at all).this happened only using sigma and not using duda stearic acid.is this happening to many others on the protocol?this happened very fast already at seond round of stemcell renewal, i  m using 24g, not 10g

 

i  was sure this was a lansoprazole side effect and stopped it (anyway my LPR reflux has recovered now) and trying eating a lot to gain few kg back

Edited by lost69, 19 January 2019 - 06:18 PM.

[QuestforLife]

i also experinced about 3-4kg weight loss but this is not very good because i was slim baseline just some fat on waist (body actually looking more like a very young person now but this is not good on face at all).this happened only using sigma and not using duda stearic acid.is this happening to many others on the protocol?this happened very fast already at seond round of stemcell renewal, i m using 24g, not 10g

Only on Sigma not Duda? Interesting! Like I said almost certainly down to fatty acid oxidation being upregulated by stearic acid. Palmitic acid has no such effect, but mixed with stearic would still expect to to be burned. Which is generally good. I'm on high fat, high protein, low carb and still losing (too much) weight after 2 1/2 months. Down 6 kg (attribute this mostly to keto, not the protocol) but with all the animal fat my face doesn't look too thin, and at this weight on a standard diet (in past years) it has done.

[QuestforLife]

Ps I found 24 kg too much, but I've done 5 days a week of 10g a day in hot chocolate and with threonine the fatigue is moderate.

Edited by QuestforLife, 19 January 2019 - 08:58 PM.

[granmasutensil]

I remember it being brought up quite awhile ago about why stearic acid was recommended over high stearic acid butters. But just to throw it out there since it wasn't specifically ever mentioned. Would glyceryl stearate, the monoester of glycerin and stearic acid perhaps be better in some regard than the standard 50/50 stearic/palmitic acid we haven't gotten past(aside from that one group buy)? It's quite cheap and easy to get also.

https://lotioncrafte...rganic-products

[Turnbuckle]

I remember it being brought up quite awhile ago about why stearic acid was recommended over high stearic acid butters. But just to throw it out there since it wasn't specifically ever mentioned. Would glyceryl stearate, the monoester of glycerin and stearic acid perhaps be better in some regard than the standard 50/50 stearic/palmitic acid we haven't gotten past(aside from that one group buy)? It's quite cheap and easy to get also.

https://lotioncrafte...rganic-products

 

 

I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't be the best stearic acid source.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 January 2019 - 11:36 AM.

[jgkyker]

In the protocol linked here, a few amino acids are listed. My question is why dose these amino acids separately instead of using something more "rounded," if I can use that term, such as hydrolyzed collagen.

 

I am convinced through many personal experiences that amino acids are immensely important to this type of protocol. We must have proteins to replace tissues in our body, and amino acids are the building blocks.

 

Hydrolyzed collagen seems to contain many essential amino acids (amino acids that must be obtained in the diet) and some amino acids that the body supposedly produces less with age (I have yet to confirm this in my personal research). It seems like a wider/broader solution may fill more holes.

 

Here are some of the essential amino acids provided by hydrolyzed collagen (Great Lakes brand):

- Cystine

- Histidine

- Hyroxylysine

- Isoleucine

- Leucine

- Lysine

- Methionine

- Phylalanine

- Threonine

- Value

 

Non-essential (or semi-essential):

- Alanine

- Arginine

- Aspartic Acid

- Glutamic Acid

- Glycine

- Hydroxyproline

- Proline

- Serine

- Tryosine

 

12g contains 23.2% glycine (2,785 mg), of which supposedly our body produces less as we age.

 

Any thoughts or links to posts discussing why the amino acids in the protocol were chosen? Alternatively, any thoughts on whether a broader range of amino acids, like what is in hydrolyzed collagen, is a better approach?

Edited by jgkyker, 25 January 2019 - 03:38 AM.

[jgkyker]

In the protocol linked here, a few amino acids are listed. My question is why dose these amino acids separately instead of using something more "rounded," if I can use that term, such as hydrolyzed collagen.

 

I am convinced through many personal experiences that amino acids are immensely important to this type of protocol. We must have proteins to replace tissues in our body, and amino acids are the building blocks.

 

Hydrolyzed collagen seems to contain many essential amino acids (amino acids that must be obtained in the diet) and some amino acids that the body supposedly produces less with age (I have yet to confirm this in my personal research). It seems like a wider/broader solution may fill more holes.

 

Here are some of the essential amino acids provided by hydrolyzed collagen (Great Lakes brand):

- Cystine

- Histidine

- Hyroxylysine

- Isoleucine

- Leucine

- Lysine

- Methionine

- Phylalanine

- Threonine

- Value

 

Non-essential (or semi-essential):

- Alanine

- Arginine

- Aspartic Acid

- Glutamic Acid

- Glycine

- Hydroxyproline

- Proline

- Serine

- Tryosine

 

12g contains 23.2% glycine (2,785 mg), of which supposedly our body produces less as we age.

 

Any thoughts or links to posts discussing why the amino acids in the protocol were chosen? Alternatively, any thoughts on whether a broader range of amino acids, like what is in hydrolyzed collagen, is a better approach?

 

Along these lines, apparently, we are discovering the proteins necessary to create stem cells. If we want to increase stem cell production, we will need to ensure the appropriate amino acids are available to build the required proteins.

 

"The protein, NKX3-1, has previously been shown to play a role in prostate development and tumor suppression. It can substitute for one of the four proteins first identified in 2007 by stem cell researcher Shinya Yamanaka, MD, Ph.D., as sufficient to prod mature cells like those in the skin or blood to become iPS cells—a transformation known in the stem cell world as reprogramming.
The discovery creates a peephole into the black box of cellular reprogramming and may lead to new ways to generate iPS cells in the laboratory."

Read more at: https://phys.org/new...-cells.html#jCp
 

From https://www.genecard...pl?gene=NKX3-1:
Protein attributes for NKX3-1 Gene
Size:
    234 amino acids

Edited by jgkyker, 25 January 2019 - 03:51 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

The target stem cells for this protocol are of the embryonic type. These were recently discovered to still exist in the adult, but were missed because of their very small size--

 

Evidence has accumulated that adult hematopoietic tissues and other organs contain a population of dormant stem cells (SCs) that are more primitive than other, already restricted, monopotent tissue-committed stem cells (TCSCs). These observations raise several questions, such as the developmental origin of these cells, their true pluripotent or multipotent nature, which surface markers they express, how they can be efficiently isolated from adult tissues, and what role they play in the adult organism. The phenotype of these cells and expression of some genes characteristic of embryonic SCs (ESCs), epiblast SCs (EPiSCs), and primordial germ cells (PGCs) suggests their early-embryonic deposition in developing tissues as precursors of adult SCs.

A novel view of the adult stem cell compartment from the perspective of a quiescent population of very small embryonic-like stem cells

 

 

And what do embryonic stem cells eat? Threonine. It is critical--

Measurements of the abundance of common metabolites in cultured embryonic stem (ES) cells revealed an unusual state with respect to one-carbon metabolism. These findings led to the discovery of copious expression of the gene encoding threonine dehydrogenase (TDH) in ES cells. TDH-mediated catabolism of threonine takes place in mitochondria to generate glycine and acetyl–coenzyme A (CoA), with glycine facilitating one-carbon metabolism via the glycine cleavage system and acetyl-CoA feeding the tricarboxylic acid cycle. Culture media individually deprived of each of the 20 amino acids were applied to ES cells, leading to the discovery that ES cells are critically dependent on one amino acid—threonine. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4373593/

 

 

 

This is also true for human cells--Threonine appears to be essential for proliferation of human as well as mouse embryonic stem cells

 

[jgkyker]

 

The target stem cells for this protocol are of the embryonic type. These were recently discovered to still exist in the adult, but were missed because of their very small size--

 

 

 

And what do embryonic stem cells eat? Threonine. It is critical--

 

 

This is also true for human cells--Threonine appears to be essential for proliferation of human as well as mouse embryonic stem cells

 

 

Having not read the study yet, my thought is that Threonine is critical, as stated, but other essential amino acids are "less necessary," meaning they are still a necessary component, just less so. The proteins that make up stem cells likely involve other essential amino acids that cannot be manufactured by the body. Maybe this paper is stating that the body can use Threonine to manufacture non-essential amino acids, and work around other "less necessary" essential amino acids for stem cell creation.

 

There are 228 mg per serving of Threonine in the hydrolyzed collagen, and I see numerous, raving reports about people that are taking this and their joints are less painful, they feel better when they wake-up in the morning (better sleep), etc. Not to mention, there are numerous studies out there supporting some of this, even supposedly odd ones that support tooth decay prevention. Either the combination of amino acids in hydrolyzed collagen spurs all this, or maybe it is just the 228 mg of Threonine?

 

Thank you. That Threonine study just went to the top of my reading list.

[Turnbuckle]

 Maybe this paper is stating that the body can use Threonine to manufacture non-essential amino acids, and work around other "less necessary" essential amino acids for stem cell creation.

 

 

 

It seems clear to me: Culture media individually deprived of each of the 20 amino acids were applied to ES cells, leading to the discovery that ES cells are critically dependent on one amino acid—threonine. 

[jgkyker]

It seems clear to me: Culture media individually deprived of each of the 20 amino acids were applied to ES cells, leading to the discovery that ES cells are critically dependent on one amino acid—threonine. 

 

Yes, I see that. Thank you for emphasizing this. However, I find it hard to believe that the proteins making up stem cells are entirely made up of the amino acid Threonine and non-essential amino acids. Perhaps, this paper is identifying that... it sort of seems to be. Perhaps, though, they are made up of many essential amino acids and ensuring those are available would increase the likelihood of the proteins being synthesized by the body. I'll look into it more though. The key, I believe, is to investigate the proteins making up stem cells and their constituent amino acids. If there are essential amino acids in there, aside from Threonine, then the statement, "All we need is Threonine," cannot be true. This is because the body cannot produce essential amino acids.

 

Please let me know if I misunderstand the structure of proteins and the role of amino acids in their structure. I suppose two other possibilities here are that I misunderstand something (most likely), or humanity does not yet fully understand how proteins are constructed from amino acids. For instance, if we were to find an essential amino acid in stem cells, other than Threonine, then the paper above may be indicating a big hole in the scientific understanding of proteins and amino acids.

Edited by jgkyker, 25 January 2019 - 03:56 PM.

[jgkyker]

Yes, I see that. Thank you for emphasizing this. However, I find it hard to believe that the proteins making up stem cells are entirely made up of the amino acid Threonine and non-essential amino acids. Perhaps, this paper is identifying that... it sort of seems to be. Perhaps, though, they are made up of many essential amino acids and ensuring those are available would increase the likelihood of the proteins being synthesized by the body. I'll look into it more though. The key, I believe, is to investigate the proteins making up stem cells and their constituent amino acids. If there are essential amino acids in there, aside from Threonine, then the statement, "All we need is Threonine," cannot be true. This is because the body cannot produce essential amino acids.

 

Please let me know if I misunderstand the structure of proteins and the role of amino acids in their structure. I suppose two other possibilities here are that I misunderstand something (most likely), or humanity does not yet fully understand how proteins are constructed from amino acids. For instance, if we were to find an essential amino acid in stem cells, other than Threonine, then the paper above may be indicating a big hole in the scientific understanding of proteins and amino acids.

 

To take this thought process one step further, the name of the paper is Dependence of Mouse Embryonic Stem Cells on Threonine Catabolism. Threonine catabolism can form glycine, a non-essential amino acid. From the paper, "TDH-mediated catabolism of threonine takes place in mitochondria to generate glycine and acetyl–coenzyme A (CoA), with glycine facilitating one-carbon metabolism via the glycine cleavage system and acetyl-CoA feeding the tricarboxylic acid cycle."

 

Supposedly, we produce less glycine as we age. So, if that is true, perhaps one of the primary effects of aging is the body's inability to convert threonine to glycine. Perhaps, supplementing glycine makes sense in this scenario.

 

Here is a very curious quote from another paper, High glycine concentration increases collagen synthesis by articular chondrocytes in vitro: acute glycine deficiency could be an important cause of osteoarthritis:

 

"Previous works of our group have shown that glycine is an essential amino acid, which must be present in the diet in large amounts to satisfy the demands for collagen synthesis."

 

What is curious about that quote is the authors are indicating that, even though the body can produce glycine (perhaps by threonine catabolism in one case), it does not produce enough. Consequently, they are considering it an essential amino acid that must be obtained in the diet.

 

I'm seeing a pattern here with glycine, and it seems to support glycine supplementation, which is in hydrolyzed collagen (almost 20% of it).

Edited by jgkyker, 25 January 2019 - 04:24 PM.

[jgkyker]

Hard to argue with that study though... graph shows clearly that depriving glycine had little effect in comparison to threonine deprivation, which had immense effect. I still wonder though if there is a link in aging and inefficient threonine catabolism... to spell it out, I wonder if supplementing threonine is the key here. Supplementing threonine will not help if there is a breakdown in its use. The problem is we do not have that information, as far as I can tell. No evidence to support or refute.

[jgkyker]

 

A few things I want to point out about that graph. Although clearly Threonine practically eliminates growth, the graph is by no means indicating it is solely necessary. Examining the graph shows that colony size was affected negatively also in the absence of other amino acids, just more so in the case of Threonine. If we look at the graph for Glycine, you have over 1,000 number of colonies. In the case of Cysteine, you have under 600. This could support the idea of a broader amino acid supplementation. For instance, it could be that Threonine must be converted to Glycine which is then converted to some other amino acid, whereas direct supplementation is more efficient. Let me know if you have any thoughts on that.

 

A few things I want to point out about that graph. Although clearly Threonine practically eliminates growth, the graph is by no means indicating it is solely necessary. Examining the graph shows that colony size was affected negatively also in the absence of other amino acids, just more so in the case of Threonine. If we look at the graph for Glycine, you have over 1,000 number of colonies. In the case of Cysteine, you have under 600. This could support the idea of a broader amino acid supplementation. For instance, it could be that Threonine must be converted to Glycine which is then converted to some other amino acid, whereas direct supplementation is more efficient. Let me know if you have any thoughts on that.

Edited by jgkyker, 26 January 2019 - 06:37 PM.

[jgkyker]

 

A few things I want to point out about that graph. Although clearly Threonine practically eliminates growth, the graph is by no means indicating it is solely necessary. Examining the graph shows that colony size was affected negatively also in the absence of other amino acids, just more so in the case of Threonine. If we look at the graph for Glycine, you have over 1,000 number of colonies. In the case of Cysteine, you have under 600. This could support the idea of a broader amino acid supplementation. For instance, it could be that Threonine must be converted to Glycine which is then converted to some other amino acid, whereas direct supplementation is more efficient. Let me know if you have any thoughts on that.

 

A few things I want to point out about that graph. Although clearly Threonine practically eliminates growth, the graph is by no means indicating it is solely necessary. Examining the graph shows that colony size was affected negatively also in the absence of other amino acids, just more so in the case of Threonine. If we look at the graph for Glycine, you have over 1,000 number of colonies. In the case of Cysteine, you have under 600. This could support the idea of a broader amino acid supplementation. For instance, it could be that Threonine must be converted to Glycine which is then converted to some other amino acid, whereas direct supplementation is more efficient. Let me know if you have any thoughts on that.

 

Okay, one last thought and then I promise I'll shut-up for a while... Probably the reason why eliminating glycine did nothing is because glycine is more or less encapsulated, if I may use that word, in the chemical structure of every amino acid. In other words, it is much more likely that the body can create glycine out of any other amino acid supplied.

 

 

Chemical structure of glycine above.

 

Chemical structure of Threonine and Cysteine below.

 

       

 

See how you can more or less take the glycine chemical structure and overlay it on top of the structure of Threonine and Cysteine? To my understanding, you can do that with any amino acid for glycine. Consequently, it makes sense to me that eliminating glycine from the experiment had the least effect in their results. It is easy to synthesize it from other amino acids. So, as long as there are other present, the body will provide the glycine needed.

 

My point is that glycine supplementation would likely cut down on the body "cannibalizing," if you will, other amino acids for glycine requirements. This could be very important, as you cannot as easily convert glycine to threonine.

 

I really am convinced that broader amino acid supplementation is key for stem cell creation and also then for their use in building tissue etc. I still have quite a lot to learn though...

 

I'll leave it alone now after reiterating that quote above from the study regarding glycine:

"Previous works of our group have shown that glycine is an essential amino acid, which must be present in the diet in large amounts to satisfy the demands for collagen synthesis."

 

I expect the body is hijacking other amino acids to get its needs, when glycine is not present in the diet "in large amounts."

 

Edited by jgkyker, 26 January 2019 - 09:51 PM.

[mkutsen]

Yes I did. They told me that they'd achieved 90% liposome encapsulation on the last batch they tested in late 2017 and sent me some documentation to prove it. I'm sure they'd do the same for you if you asked.

 

Nate - telomerase activation is a complex subject with lots of things that can stop it working. I'd imagine a mitochondrial antioxidant would help as it will lower ROS and consequently inflammation - which is what you need to do to acheive a reduced (opposite of oxidised) state. It is well known that inflammation shortens telomeres dramaticlly,and it has also been well established that telomerase leaves the nucleus to protect mitochondria in times of high ROS, therefore it is not able to do its normal job. I expect C60oo and SkQ1 would be superfluous however, one would do this job (lowering ROS).

 

I've read all the old Geron and TA-Sciences patents on astralogosides and it seems they are the best bet at the moment for actually extending telomeres, atleast in vitro. (I don't know anything about Bill Andrew's telomerase activator, maybe someone else can inform us?) The problem seems to be that astralagosides are very poorly absorbed into the bloodstream. Cycloastranegol was an attempt to improve this biovailability rather than increase the potency of telomerase activation. It didn't work.  Hence TA Sciences now use a variant of Cycloastranegol called C3-(L)-Valyl-cycloastragenol.

 

Check out patent number US9403866B2; tables 4 (rats) and 5 (dogs) are particularly interesting, at least if you're a Beagle dog!

 

Anyway the practical implication of all this is that liposomes should solve the bioavailability problem. Certainly lots more work needs to be done here to solve the telomere problem, however.

The most potent Telomerase activator that Sierra Sciences came up with was TAM-818 molecule with purported 16x the activity of the original TA-65 (astralagus extract).  They have now shifted towards trying to fund an actual hTERT gene therapy in humans.

There is a commercially available sublingual spray marketed by defytime.com called the TAM Spray.

Edited by mkutsen, 27 January 2019 - 08:00 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

The most potent Telomerase activator that Sierra Sciences came up with was TAM-818 molecule with purported 16x the activity of the original TA-65 (astralagus extract).  They have now shifted towards trying to fund an actual hTERT gene therapy in humans.

There is a commercially available sublingual spray marketed by defytime.com called the TAM Spray.

 

 

It is not desirable to use telomerase activators with this protocol. Using one early on was a mistake and I took it out.

[mkutsen]

It is not desirable to use telomerase activators with this protocol. Using one early on was a mistake and I took it out.

Why?

[Turnbuckle]

Why?

 

 

Because telomerase allows cells to become epigenetically older. Better to eliminate telomerically old cells and replace them with stem cells that are both telomerically and epigenetically young. See this post.

[lost69]

i got a severe rection to the protocol update2 ending up in ER, i did not use stearic acid but 30mg prostaphane because i had no time to prepare stearic acid.the reaction happened few minutes after taking c60 and it was an extremely acute labyrinthitis reaction.

 

i never had such a thing in my life, i could not move from my seat, not even lift the head for about 30min and vomited several times when trying to lift from my seat.i had BP checked from a family member during this crisis and it was 111/150 which is of course very unusual for me, my normal BP is 75-80/105-115

i had all labyrinthitis symptoms, plus slurred speach and strange mobility (arms did not move exactly the way i wanted), so we also suspected a TIA and got to ER for CT scan which showed nothing, MRI is booked for end of march

 

the symptoms of strange mobility/slurred speech, extreme sweating being cold, very high BP, cleared by 10-15min

 

after 30min i had a levopride injection from the doctor and labyrinthitis symptoms slowly cleared, very little slurred speech lasted 24 hrs (only family memebers could detect my speech was different) and i notice i have more typing errors today but nothing else

 

this past week i changed the side i take air during free style from right to using left breathing a lot.i never take air from left so i had some neck pains, just a little neck pains.so this could be the origin of this side effect but this happened sunday night out of no where (feeling good all day) and last time i swum was friday

 

the C60 used was a part from carbon60olivoil 99.95% purity which i use from at least 1 year or more (never had any issue) and tried 6ml carbon60oliveoil.uk 99.99% purity and then i had the bad reaction.i cannot be sure this 99.99% c60 made the crysis but everything happened after that so i wont be trying it again and will start making my own soon

Edited by lost69, 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM.

[ambivalent]

Hey lost, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles and hope you are recovering well. I wonder whether this might be related to the senolytic part of your protocol too, which I understand you've undertaken intensely. A few days ago I ventured into my second fisten experiment.  I took four grams of fisetin in olive oil, followed a couple of hours later with 10 grams each of stearic acid and leucine followed by a high dose of allicin. One thing I observed a day or two later was a ear-sensation a little like water in the ear, a crackling sound and wurring sound. It is something I seem to recall happening during fasts on occasion, which would make sense from a senolytic  perspective. The danger I sense from embarking on the senolytic protocol is clearing out too many senescent cells too quickly, especially, I argue speculatively, if the mechanism for replacing the dead cells, the healing, requires healing via senescent cells. Three things I noticed after my first senolytic protocol - were very clear blood clotting problems, significant weakness in my knees (which subsequently became stronger than pre-protocol) and something akin to a week to 10 days of discomfort for one of those morning neck-muscle pulls most of us experience occasionally which usually takes no more than a day or two to heal. In the back of my mind has been the concern that either I sustain a critical injury, the repair of which has been compromised by a temporary depletion of requisite senescent cells, or that the senolytic clears out too many in some vital area which it can't replace speedily enough to not compromise function. Those three experiences demonstrated the body was somewhat struggling to heal during that period, even though I felt pretty good, as I did this time.  

 

Get well soon, lost.

Edited by ambivalent, 30 January 2019 - 01:27 AM.

[lost69]

Thank you ambivalent, i totally recovered by few hours the same night.i only notice i still make more typing errors than usual, slurred speech is totally gone today.strange thing it was only in italian, english not affected who knows...

i also thought about senolytic protocol which is 1g fisetin, 100mg delta tocotrienols, 100mg apigenin, 900mg quercetin, 1g ip6, liposomal curvumin and lipo vit C.i had it 3 days in a row and then switched to stemcell renewal

From senolytics i only get the usual big red lips probably herpes, nothing else bad.but of course we cannot rule out this made the effects especially if you or others noticed effects on ears or headaches.do we have any indication about time to recover after senolytics?

Another variable is the new c60 brand they say c60 is made in uk by another method without solvents and it is 99,99% pure
tmorrow i need to check how much i took from that bottle because i cannot remember exactly what happened.the box was still on the table when i got back home that night

Today i took carbonolivoil c60 99,95 and no bad effects from it at all, all as usual

Prostaphane is not a variable because i use 30mg also when i make stearic acid milk shake

Edited by lost69, 30 January 2019 - 02:53 AM.

[Graviton]

i got a severe rection to the protocol update2 ending up in ER, i did not use stearic acid but 30mg prostaphane because i had no time to prepare stearic acid.the reaction happened few minutes after taking c60 and it was an extremely acute labyrinthitis reaction.

 

i never had such a thing in my life, i could not move from my seat, not even lift the head for about 30min and vomited several times when trying to lift from my seat.i had BP checked from a family member during this crisis and it was 111/150 which is of course very unusual for me, my normal BP is 75-80/105-115

i had all labyrinthitis symptoms, plus slurred speach and strange mobility (arms did not move exactly the way i wanted), so we also suspected a TIA and got to ER for CT scan which showed nothing, MRI is booked for end of march

 

the symptoms of strange mobility/slurred speech, extreme sweating being cold, very high BP, cleared by 10-15min

 

after 30min i had a levopride injection from the doctor and labyrinthitis symptoms slowly cleared, very little slurred speech lasted 24 hrs (only family memebers could detect my speech was different) and i notice i have more typing errors today but nothing else

 

this past week i changed the side i take air during free style from right to using left breathing a lot.i never take air from left so i had some neck pains, just a little neck pains.so this could be the origin of this side effect but this happened sunday night out of no where (feeling good all day) and last time i swum was friday

 

the C60 used was a part from carbon60olivoil 99.95% purity which i use from at least 1 year or more (never had any issue) and tried 6ml carbon60oliveoil.uk 99.99% purity and then i had the bad reaction.i cannot be sure this 99.99% c60 made the crysis but everything happened after that so i wont be trying it again and will start making my own soon

What is your dose of C60 and how frequently do you take?

 

Have you had hypoglycemia or hyperventilation before?

Edited by Graviton, 30 January 2019 - 09:20 AM.