2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

An experimental protocol for stem cell proliferation and mito biogenesis (updated) —

 

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment, not for young people.

3. While this should be less sensitive to alcohol use than previously, one should still avoid alcohol the same day.

4. A prior protocol is at post #694. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.

 

  

 

Stem cell self-renewal with mito biogenesis

This is where stem cell pools and mito numbers are expanded

 

Time 0 —

¹Stearic acid — 10 g (food grade, in brownie)

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

 

  

Time 3:00 —

Threonine — 5 g

²Taurine — 5 g

³Methionine — 3 g

³Lysine — 2 g

⁴Leucine — 5 g

⁵Sulforaphane — 50 mg

PQQ — 20mg

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

C60 — 3 mg (in oil)

SAM-e — 500 mg

 

 

 

Notes:

 

(1) Food grade stearic acid is a waxy triglyceride with about 50% stearic acid moieties. It has a high melting point and will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 1/2 to 2/3 cups of oil, eliminate the oil and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use.

 

(2) Taurine stimulates neurogenesis.

 

(3) Methionine is the primary nutrition for pluripotent cells, though threonine also seems necessary. So is lysine.

 

(4) Leucine stimulates both mito biogenesis and stem cell proliferation.

 

(5) Sulforaphane penetrates the BBB to produce mito fusion there, while stearic acid is blocked. 50 mg caps can be obtained from Amazon — Thorne Research - Crucera-SGS - Broccoli Seed Extract for Antioxidant Support - Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS)

 

 

[NeilR]

An experimental protocol for stem cell proliferation and mito biogenesis (updated) —


1. This is a work in progress.
2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment, not for young people.
3. While this should be less sensitive to alcohol use than previously, one should still avoid alcohol the same day.
4. A prior protocol is at post #694. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.





Stem cell self-renewal with mito biogenesis
This is where stem cell pools and mito numbers are expanded


Time 0 —
¹Stearic acid — 10 g (food grade, in brownie)
Liposomal glutathione — 1 g



Time 3:00 —
Threonine — 5 g
²Taurine — 5 g
³Methionine — 3 g
³Lysine — 2 g
⁴Leucine — 5 g
⁵Sulforaphane — 50 mg
PQQ — 20mg
Liposomal glutathione — 1 g
C60 — 3 mg (in oil)

SAM-e — 500 mg

Notes:


(1) Food grade stearic acid is a waxy triglyceride with about 50% stearic acid moieties. It has a high melting point and will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 1/2 to 2/3 cups of oil, eliminate the oil and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use.


(2) Taurine stimulates neurogenesis.


(3) Methionine is the primary nutrition for pluripotent cells, though threonine also seems necessary. So is lysine.


(4) Leucine stimulates both mito biogenesis and stem cell proliferation.


(5) Sulforaphane penetrates the BBB to produce mito fusion there, while stearic acid is blocked. 50 mg caps can be obtained from Amazon — Thorne Research - Crucera-SGS - Broccoli Seed Extract for Antioxidant Support - Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS)

Turnbuckle, thank you for doing such an amazing job! What should someone 30 years old do to keep his stem cells from depleting? Your protocol is not for someone my age according to you, so what should I use?

[orion22]

 

An experimental protocol for stem cell proliferation and mito biogenesis (updated) —

 

 

 

1. This is a work in progress.

 

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment, not for young people.

 

3. While this should be less sensitive to alcohol use than previously, one should still avoid alcohol the same day.

 

4. A prior protocol is at post #694. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Stem cell self-renewal with mito biogenesis

 

This is where stem cell pools and mito numbers are expanded

 

 

 

Time 0 —

 

¹Stearic acid — 10 g (food grade, in brownie)

 

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

 

 

 

  

 

Time 3:00 —

 

Threonine — 5 g

 

²Taurine — 5 g

 

³Methionine — 3 g

 

³Lysine — 2 g

 

⁴Leucine — 5 g

 

⁵Sulforaphane — 50 mg

 

PQQ — 20mg

 

Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

 

C60 — 3 mg (in oil)

 

SAM-e — 500 mg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notes:

 

 

 

(1) Food grade stearic acid is a waxy triglyceride with about 50% stearic acid moieties. It has a high melting point and will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 1/2 to 2/3 cups of oil, eliminate the oil and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use.

 

 

 

(2) Taurine stimulates neurogenesis.

 

 

 

(3) Methionine is the primary nutrition for pluripotent cells, though threonine also seems necessary. So is lysine.

 

 

 

(4) Leucine stimulates both mito biogenesis and stem cell proliferation.

 

 

 

(5) Sulforaphane penetrates the BBB to produce mito fusion there, while stearic acid is blocked. 50 mg caps can be obtained from Amazon — Thorne Research - Crucera-SGS - Broccoli Seed Extract for Antioxidant Support - Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS)

 

 

 

Taurine — 5 g you really like to pie taurine don t you 

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, thank you for doing such an amazing job! What should someone 30 years old do to keep his stem cells from depleting? Your protocol is not for someone my age according to you, so what should I use?

 

 

I look at aging primarily as an extended Hayflick crisis. Old cells will short telomeres become senescent at increasing rates, while stem cell pools become depleted of functional stem cells. Thus they can't keep up with the demand for replacement cells. But at the age of thirty, you are not there yet, and overfilling stem cell pools will just result in the body getting rid of the excess.

 

One thing you can do at your age is not fall for the idea of increasing telomere length. The shortening of telomeres with each cycle of somatic cell division is not a mistake by nature. Telomere shortening provides a necessary expiration date, and if you reset that date, your cells will just get epigenetically older and more dysfunctional, instead of being replaced by fresh new cells derived from stem cells.

[NeilR]

I look at aging primarily as an extended Hayflick crisis. Old cells will short telomeres become senescent at increasing rates, while stem cell pools become depleted of functional stem cells. Thus they can't keep up with the demand for replacement cells. But at the age of thirty, you are not there yet, and overfilling stem cell pools will just result in the body getting rid of the excess.

One thing you can do at your age is not fall for the idea of increasing telomere length. The shortening of telomeres with each cycle of somatic cell division is not a mistake by nature. Telomere shortening provides a necessary expiration date, and if you reset that date, your cells will just get epigenetically older and more dysfunctional, instead of being replaced by fresh new cells derived from stem cells.

Thank you for the explanation. So do you recommend then that I don’t take anything at all? Or some supplements to preserve stem cell health are a good idea? Such as Taurine, Icaarin for example? I’m not on any telomere supplements.

Edited by NeilR, 15 August 2019 - 10:05 PM.

[stephen_b]

I'm wondering if the stem cell protocol can make the mitochondrial protocol unnecessary? For the record I'm in my mid-fifties.

[Turnbuckle]

Thank you for the explanation. So do you recommend then that I don’t take anything at all? Or some supplements to preserve stem cell health are a good idea? Such as Taurine, Icaarin for example? I’m not on any telomere supplements.

 

 

You've asked these questions before -- https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=866673

 

People will continue to ask why they can't take this at 30 and I will say it is experimental. It's geriatric. Wait a few years, let the bugs shake out. But of course people want to live longer and they want to live longer now. Now, dammit! And so they fall for the latest craze, and sometimes the opposite happens. Like golfer Eben Byers and the patent medicine Radithor. He felt it did wonders for him, so he drank three bottles a day, far beyond the recommended dose. For two years he felt great, then his bones began dissolving and his jaw had to be removed. That was a century ago and nothing's changed. In fact, it's gotten worse. Today millions are taking statins based on massive fraud by the pharma industry. Their mitochondria are being destroyed but they think they will live longer. Same thing with telomeres. If you lengthen them you may feel better in the short run, but in the long run you will end up with cells that are very old, and you will feel as old as they are. So my advice is not to try to cure something you don't have.

[NeilR]

You've asked these questions before -- https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=866673

People will continue to ask why they can't take this at 30 and I will say it is experimental. It's geriatric. Wait a few years, let the bugs shake out. But of course people want to live longer and they want to live longer now. Now, dammit! And so they fall for the latest craze, and sometimes the opposite happens. Like golfer Eben Byers and the patent medicine Radithor. He felt it did wonders for him, so he drank three bottles a day, far beyond the recommended dose. For two years he felt great, then his bones began dissolving and his jaw had to be removed. That was a century ago and nothing's changed. In fact, it's gotten worse. Today millions are taking statins based on massive fraud by the pharma industry. Their mitochondria are being destroyed but they think they will live longer. Same thing with telomeres. If you lengthen them you may feel better in the short run, but in the long run you will end up with cells that are very old, and you will feel as old as they are. So my advice is not to try to cure something you don't have.

Turnbuckle, I am not sure I understand your answer. I am not asking about telomeres, I’m asking about stem cells (which is the subject of this thread). I did ask you a similar question before (though that was months-ago and I forgot) and I looked at your link to see that you never responded to me then.

I do have a problem: aging starts in your late 20’s and I don’t want to wait until I‘m 70 to do something about it when I have symptoms such as greys and wrinkles already, meaning it started and will only keep getting worse.

I understand that this protocol isn’t for people my age and am not arguing that, I trust that if you say that it’s not for younger people than it’s not. I‘m asking for what younger people can do to keep their stem cells from depleting instead. If you don’t know, then please just say that, because I see you as an authority on stem cells and mitochondria

[Rocket]

I think ageing, as people think of it, begins in your teens and not their late 20s. I would surmise from observation that ageing of the tissues begins almost at the same time as the body becomes fully developed and ceases growing. In your late 20s, you are already declining: losing muscle, HGH is dropping like a rock, body is accumulating damage, gene expression is changing. Typically bipolar disorder reveals itself in the late 20s. Women's fertility is already declining in the late 20s. People who are balding have already lost most of their hair by the late 20s. Reflexes begin slowing as does mental capacity. By 35, most athletes are out of their sport and most of the world's militaries won't accept applicants.

 

Stem cells is just a small part of the ageing process. In your 20s and 30s you still have plenty of stem cell activity, and yet you are still declining. Its not loss of stem cells causing your decline (nor is it telomeres).

 

Enjoy your youth and stay healthy. Avoid as much damage as possible. Honestly, you don't need to do anything for your stem cell activity at your age, not even preventative as you are thinking. Being in my 40s, most of my issues are what I did to myself in my youth and not with the ageing process. Exercise and certain chemicals have kept my body and mind fairly youthful considering what I see in my peers. Frankly, what I see in people my age scares me that I could have turned out like them: graying, wrinkling, no muscle, and lots of body fat, and their minds seem slower and more set in their ways. 

 

 

Edited by Rocket, 16 August 2019 - 05:38 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, I am not sure I understand your answer. I am not asking about telomeres, I’m asking about stem cells (which is the subject of this thread). I did ask you a similar question before (though that was months-ago and I forgot) and I looked at your link to see that you never responded to me then.

I do have a problem: aging starts in your late 20’s and I don’t want to wait until I‘m 70 to do something about it when I have symptoms such as greys and wrinkles already, meaning it started and will only keep getting worse.

I understand that this protocol isn’t for people my age and am not arguing that, I trust that if you say that it’s not for younger people than it’s not. I‘m asking for what younger people can do to keep their stem cells from depleting instead. If you don’t know, then please just say that, because I see you as an authority on stem cells and mitochondria

 

I'm only advising caution as your stem cells have to last many decades. But if you aren't concerned, give the protocol a shot and report back from time to time.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 August 2019 - 06:02 PM.

[genX]

Turnbuckle,

      I have two simple questions about your protocol - just to be sure.

(1) Is the time interval between the stearic acid and the C60 3 hours?  Is that correct?

 

(2) Is it best to do this in the morning (since it might be too stimulating otherwise)?

 

P.S.    A general question to you and/or the forum:  Has anyone else besides Turnbuckle tried this protocol? 

 

Thank you.

[dlewis1453]

I'm wondering if the stem cell protocol can make the mitochondrial protocol unnecessary? For the record I'm in my mid-fifties.

 

Hi Stephen, no the stem cell protocol and the mitochondrial protocol have very different effects, despite sharing stearic acid as a common ingredient. The stem cell protocol cannot replace the mitochondria protocol. The mitochondria protocol ramps up the body's mitochondria quality control process to remove mitochondria with defective mtdna, something that the stem cell protocol does not do. 

[dlewis1453]

Turnbuckle,

      I have two simple questions about your protocol - just to be sure.

(1) Is the time interval between the stearic acid and the C60 3 hours?  Is that correct?

 

(2) Is it best to do this in the morning (since it might be too stimulating otherwise)?

 

P.S.    A general question to you and/or the forum:  Has anyone else besides Turnbuckle tried this protocol? 

 

Thank you.

 

Hi GenX, yes multiple people have tried the protocol with good results. You can find them if you read back through this entire long thread. I have communicated privately with several of them. They have experienced effects ranging from increased youthful appearance, to normalization of thyroid activity, normalization of blood pressure, to a return to youthful endurance and exercise capacity. 

[Graviton]

Not talking about whether taking this protocol(or taking C60 olive oil) early in time is good or bad, but this post is a scientific discussion about the causes and the reasons. Anyone remember about the period that Wistar rats were fed in the original Baati's study?

It seems that they were taken from 10 months old rats for several months(not accurate about the number), and someone hypothesized that early time mitochondrial targeted antioxidant was a part of the significant life extension observed as a possibility. As far as reported so far, Ukraine replication trial didn't seem to work and it was started from the mid point of lifespan of mouse(or rat). Any argument about these?

Edited by Graviton, 17 August 2019 - 01:49 AM.

[stephen_b]

Hi Stephen, no the stem cell protocol and the mitochondrial protocol have very different effects, despite sharing stearic acid as a common ingredient. The stem cell protocol cannot replace the mitochondria protocol. The mitochondria protocol ramps up the body's mitochondria quality control process to remove mitochondria with defective mtdna, something that the stem cell protocol does not do. 

My thought was that, if cells are going to be replaced by stem cells anyway, then would fixing their mitochondria be strictly necessary?

[dlewis1453]

My thought was that, if cells are going to be replaced by stem cells anyway, then would fixing their mitochondria be strictly necessary?

HI Stephen, even if we assume that the new cells have repaired mitochondria, (and that is a big assumption), the amount of time it would take to get new mitochondria by the turnover of all your cells with this stem cell protocol would be far too long. Only a small fraction of cells are being replaced by new cells under this stem cell protocol at any given time. If you want to repair mitochondria, better to use the mitochondria protocol, since it sets the mitochondria quality control process running in many cells at once throughout the body. Unless you have many damaged mitochondria, only a few cycles of the mitochondria protocol will likely be necessary to repair all your mitochondria.

[Turnbuckle]

My thought was that, if cells are going to be replaced by stem cells anyway, then would fixing their mitochondria be strictly necessary?

 

dlewis1453 is right. And here's another issue: when stem cells divide asymmetrically, the mitochondria are partitioned, with the more defective mitochondria going to the daughter somatic cell and the good stuff going to the daughter stem cell. This was pointed out back in post 61.

[dlewis1453]

I think ageing, as people think of it, begins in your teens and not their late 20s. I would surmise from observation that ageing of the tissues begins almost at the same time as the body becomes fully developed and ceases growing. In your late 20s, you are already declining: losing muscle, HGH is dropping like a rock, body is accumulating damage, gene expression is changing. Typically bipolar disorder reveals itself in the late 20s. Women's fertility is already declining in the late 20s. People who are balding have already lost most of their hair by the late 20s. Reflexes begin slowing as does mental capacity. By 35, most athletes are out of their sport and most of the world's militaries won't accept applicants.

 

Stem cells is just a small part of the ageing process. In your 20s and 30s you still have plenty of stem cell activity, and yet you are still declining. Its not loss of stem cells causing your decline (nor is it telomeres).

 

Enjoy your youth and stay healthy. Avoid as much damage as possible. Honestly, you don't need to do anything for your stem cell activity at your age, not even preventative as you are thinking. Being in my 40s, most of my issues are what I did to myself in my youth and not with the ageing process. Exercise and certain chemicals have kept my body and mind fairly youthful considering what I see in my peers. Frankly, what I see in people my age scares me that I could have turned out like them: graying, wrinkling, no muscle, and lots of body fat, and their minds seem slower and more set in their ways. 

 

I believe Rocket is correct in saying that an important aspect of controlling aging while in your youth is to stay healthy. I think first we should distinguish between different types of "aging." There is aging caused by the body's deterioration during its slow march towards death, and then there is aging of the premature type that is caused by the abuse that some people inflict on their bodies.

 

Many young people inflict the second type of aging upon themselves and completely abuse their bodies between 18 and 30 and it shows. I took good care of my health from 18 to 30 by exercising, eating a healthy diet, and drinking only occasionally. By the time I turned 30 I still looked 25 or so, and any aging of my face was due to the increase in masculine facial features that men experience in their 20's. In terms of hair or skin health my face was just as healthy as in my early twenties. By contrast, some of my high school classmates abused alcohol, ate bad food, dabbled in drugs, and consequently they looked much older, tired, and fatter, with puffy inflamed faces at our first high school reunion. Women especially are vulnerable to this type of premature aging due to their more complex hormonal systems and in fact studies show that excessive drinking and drug use can induce premature menopause in women. If my classmates drastically changed their lifestyle at 30, perhaps they could reverse some of the damage they inflicted on their bodies, or perhaps at that point there is too much damage to reverse completely. Their aged appearance may not be accurately detected by a dna methylation test or a telomere length test, but it is visible all the same. 

 

Regarding the commencement of aging at the end of puberty - it is true that some aging processes are set in motion at the end of puberty, but I believe the effects of these processes are overshadowed by the damage many young people inflict on their bodies during their twenties. For example, the thymus begins to involute at the end of puberty, and this process ultimately results in the collapse of our immune system when we are very old. However, even though it is shrinking during most of our life, it is still perfectly capable of carrying out its job for most of that time. Growth hormone levels decline quickly after puberty, along with a shift in gene expression, but I do not consider that to initially be an aging process so much as just a hypothalamic-controlled transition from puberty  (a period of accelerated growth) to a new stable state. Ultimately though, the hypothalamus does dial back growth hormone production and the decline in these levels during our twenties leads to one of the first signs of aging in our thirties. This may be first noticed as a decline in the ability to recover as quickly from exercise or a night out drinking. Thankfully, this aspect of aging can be minimized and is relatively easily addressed through the supplementation of hgh or growth hormone releasing peptides. Women's fertility and hormonal health does indeed peak very early in life and this is an unfortunate complicating factor for women's anti-aging efforts.   

 

To sum up, in general I think most aging during the twenties is caused by a combination of self inflicted damage and the hypothalamus beginning to dial back growth hormone production, both of which are partially within our control. 

[dlewis1453]

 I‘m asking for what younger people can do to keep their stem cells from depleting instead. 

 

 

Hi Neil, see my post above in case that helps. 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

To sum up, in general I think most aging during the twenties is caused by a combination of self inflicted damage and the hypothalamus beginning to dial back growth hormone production, both of which are partially within our control. 

 

 

You are welcome to believe what you want, but this entire thread is predicated on the concept of epigenetic aging, which is random yet correlates well with chronological aging. Horvath's epigenetic clock, for instance, has a correlation of .98.

 

See more on epigenetic clocks here. The SC protocol is designed to break that correlation and reverse the epigenetic clock.

Attached Files

•  Horvath.PNG   323.08KB   0 downloads

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 August 2019 - 08:49 PM.

[dlewis1453]

You are welcome to believe what you want, but this entire thread is predicated on the concept of epigenetic aging, which is random yet correlates well with chronological aging.

Yes I agree 100%. Horvath's clock is a great development in aging science. Our epigenetic clock is always counting down in the background (unless perhaps if you follow this stem cell protocol).

I meant as advice to Neil that while in his twenties he should focus on maintaining optimal health because this can make a big difference in his visual age. In 10 years he and his contemporaries may have similar epigenetic ages, but if he takes good care of himself his visual age may appear younger than his epigenetic age would suggest. Horvath' s clock certainly correlates strongly with chronological age, but visual age seems to be influenced by other health factors as well.

As Rocket and I mentioned, growth hormone levels seem to be one of the first things to drop as we age, and restoring gh levels can quickly restore youthful energy. I have been very curious about any affect your stem cell protocol may have on hormone levels generally. A good self experiment would be for someone to measure their hormone levels, along with their epigenetic age, before and after conducting the protocol. I plan to do so before I begin the protocol.

[Turnbuckle]

Yes I agree 100%. Horvath's clock is a great development in aging science. Our epigenetic clock is always counting down in the background (unless perhaps if you follow this stem cell protocol).

I meant as advice to Neil that while in his twenties he should focus on maintaining optimal health because this can make a big difference in his visual age. In 10 years he and his contemporaries may have similar epigenetic ages, but if he takes good care of himself his visual age may appear younger than his epigenetic age would suggest. Horvath' s clock certainly correlates strongly with chronological age, but visual age seems to be influenced by other health factors as well.

As Rocket and I mentioned, growth hormone levels seem to be one of the first things to drop as we age, and restoring gh levels can quickly restore youthful energy. I have been very curious about any affect your stem cell protocol may have on hormone levels generally. A good self experiment would be for someone to measure their hormone levels, along with their epigenetic age, before and after conducting the protocol. I plan to do so before I begin the protocol.

 

 

Testosterone would be the most interesting hormone, and if the right supplement were added to the protocol, it's possible that testerone levels could be restored to a more youthful profile, and to even go beyond that. 

 

The main source of testosterone in men is Leydig cells. And while Leydig stem cells (LSCs) exist, they don't seem to be too anxious to proliferate. 

 

We found that LSCs alone were incapable of self-renewal and differentiation. However, in combination with Sertoli cells and myoid cells, LSCs underwent self-renewal as well as differentiation into mature Leydig cells. As a result, the recipient mice that received the LSC autograft showed testosterone production with preserved luteinizing hormone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6312442/

 

 

The reason is that LSCs require certain signals. This appears to be the hedgehog signaling pathway, which also impacts other SC types, like those in hair follicles. Stimulating the sonic hedgehog gene in mice grows new hair.

 

So stimulating that gene would increase the value of this protocol, if there were a supplement that was commonly available. And there's at least one. Resveratrol, for instance--Resveratrol Activated Sonic Hedgehog Signaling...

 

So can simply adding resveratrol to the protocol grow hair like Stalin and muscles like Stallone? We'll see.

[sholay75]

epigenetic aging as the Dnam clock reveals starts from the time we are born, there is abundance of stem cells during the growth phase, which does not stop the epigenetic clock. i think the SC protocol would not stop epigenetic aging, although it may replenish cells which are lost in the aged body due to epigenetic aging.

[Turnbuckle]

epigenetic aging as the Dnam clock reveals starts from the time we are born, there is abundance of stem cells during the growth phase, which does not stop the epigenetic clock. i think the SC protocol would not stop epigenetic aging, although it may replenish cells which are lost in the aged body due to epigenetic aging.

 

I see aging as an extended Hayflick crisis, where cells are becoming senescent faster than stem cells can replace them. This is not all bad, as it provides an opportunity to replace aged out cells with young cells. That's why I advise against the currently popular telomerase supplements, which eliminate senescence and allow cells to grow older than they otherwise would. Cell replacement happens naturally, but with the depletion of stem cell pools, this falls behind at an accelerating rate. So the protocol consists of two parts--first refilling stem cell pools with symmetric replication (self-renewal), then eliminating telomericaly old cells, which are typically epigenetically old as well. Obviously this will not work very well for young people with small populations of aged out cells. But for the geriatric crowd, it does.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 August 2019 - 04:13 PM.

[dlewis1453]

Testosterone would be the most interesting hormone, and if the right supplement were added to the protocol, it's possible that testerone levels could be restored to a more youthful profile, and to even go beyond that.

The main source of testosterone in men is Leydig cells. And while Leydig stem cells (LSCs) exist, they don't seem to be too anxious to proliferate.

This is very interesting Turnbuckle. Do I sense a future testosterone enhancement protocol in development? I suspect testicular enlargement may be a side effect of such a protocol. That alone would make the protocol popular.

Off the top of my head I believe hcg and a few herbs stimulate leydig cells but I am not very familiar with leydig stem cells specifically or the various hedgehog pathways.

[sholay75]

I see aging as an extended Hayflick crisis, where cells are becoming senescent faster than stem cells can replace them. This is not all bad, as it provides an opportunity to replace aged out cells with young cells. That's why I advise against the currently popular telomerase supplements, which eliminate senescence and allow cells to grow older than they otherwise would. Cell replacement happens naturally, but with the depletion of stem cell pools, this falls behind at an accelerating rate. So the protocol consists of two parts--first refilling stem cell pools with symmetric replication (self-renewal), then eliminating telomericaly old cells, which are typically epigenetically old as well. Obviously this will not work very well for young people with small populations of aged out cells. But for the geriatric crowd, it does.

The Dnam clock shows these epigenetically old cells are present in the young and growing body and in fact their presence is detected right after birth, which is when the body can eliminate them and stem cells can easily replace them. The body accommodates them and expends energy in maintaining them during the critical growth phase and now these cells are shown to be dysfunctional in an aged body and partially reprogramming them to an earlier state rejuvenates the body.

The protocol advised by you can refill the stem cell pools and maybe eliminate the senescent cells, but I feel this will not reduce the epigenetic age, which I feel will continue to advance. I feel senescence is a step or maybe few steps later state than the epigenetic  clock signature state which is detected during the complete lifespan.

[Turnbuckle]

The Dnam clock shows these epigenetically old cells are present in the young and growing body and in fact their presence is detected right after birth, which is when the body can eliminate them and stem cells can easily replace them. The body accommodates them and expends energy in maintaining them during the critical growth phase and now these cells are shown to be dysfunctional in an aged body and partially reprogramming them to an earlier state rejuvenates the body.

The protocol advised by you can refill the stem cell pools and maybe eliminate the senescent cells, but I feel this will not reduce the epigenetic age, which I feel will continue to advance. I feel senescence is a step or maybe few steps later state than the epigenetic  clock signature state which is detected during the complete lifespan.

 

You are talking out of your hat. I had my epigenetic age tested shortly before I began (I was slightly older epigenetically than people my age, but within the error bars), and it dropped over 11 years after just 3 months of treatment.  I then began using telomerase stimulants, and saw it begin to rise again. I thought I could use them with the protocol as stem cells would be mostly impacted, but I neglected to consider transit amplifying cells, which replicate far faster than stem cells and produce most of the new cells in many organs. So I cut the telomerase stimulants and saw my epigenetic age stabilize and begin to fall (more slowly this time), and according to the latest test I'm epigenetically younger than 96% of the population my age. So epigenetic age is far more malleable than people realize. 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 August 2019 - 09:08 AM.

[sholay75]

You are talking out of your hat. I had my epigenetic age tested shortly before I began (I was slightly older epigenetically than people my age, but within the error bars), and it dropped over 11 years after just 3 months of treatment.  I then began using telomerase stimulants, and saw it begin to rise again. I thought I could use them with the protocol as stem cells would be mostly impacted, but I neglected to consider transit amplifying cells, which replicate far faster than stem cells and produce most of the new cells in many organs. So I cut the telomerase stimulants and saw my epigenetic age stabilize and begin to fall (more slowly this time), and according to the latest test I'm epigenetically younger than 96% of the population my age. So epigenetic age is far more malleable than people realize. 

That is a great result, but then how does one explain that epigenetic age keeps on rising from birth in presence of all the growth factors coursing through the blood. This study discusses about 1 and 3 year old infants getting infusion of blood stem cells from older donors, but 17 years after the infusion their blood reflects the age of the donor, which implies even a larger load of the epigenetically aged cells do not reverse their age in presence of growth factors.

Or possible explanation could be , with your protocol, you may have hit upon a combination which actually eliminates these cells.

[Turnbuckle]

That is a great result, but then how does one explain that epigenetic age keeps on rising from birth in presence of all the growth factors coursing through the blood. This study discusses about 1 and 3 year old infants getting infusion of blood stem cells from older donors, but 17 years after the infusion their blood reflects the age of the donor, which implies even a larger load of the epigenetically aged cells do not reverse their age in presence of growth factors.

Or possible explanation could be , with your protocol, you may have hit upon a combination which actually eliminates these cells.

 

 

Epigenetic aging is mostly the result of errors by methyltransferase. It has nothing directly to do with growth factors. As for your link, it proves my point--

 

Here, we report that, despite a substantial age difference between donor and recipient, the DNAm age of transplanted donor blood reflects the age of the donor, even after many years of exposure to the recipient's body. This observation was consistent for both adult and child recipients. Our data demonstrate that the DNAm age of transplanted blood cells is cell‐intrinsic in the human body.

 

 

Likewise, if you replace the oldest ten percent of your cells with somatic cells derived from endogenous stem cells, those new cells will begin aging normally from a starting point that is near zero. Cells age at a rate that is specific to the cell, not to the organism. This goes on all the time, thus the body is a melange of cellular ages. If the body's repair machinery were to work perfectly, you would reach a certain average epigenetic age and plateau there. That you do not is due to depletion of stem cell pools and failure to eliminate senescent cells. Address those issues and you can stop and even reverse aging.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 August 2019 - 10:50 AM.

[Graviton]

You are talking out of your hat. I had my epigenetic age tested shortly before I began (I was slightly older epigenetically than people my age, but within the error bars), and it dropped over 11 years after just 3 months of treatment.  I then began using telomerase stimulants, and saw it begin to rise again. I thought I could use them with the protocol as stem cells would be mostly impacted, but I neglected to consider transit amplifying cells, which replicate far faster than stem cells and produce most of the new cells in many organs. So I cut the telomerase stimulants and saw my epigenetic age stabilize and begin to fall (more slowly this time), and according to the latest test I'm epigenetically younger than 96% of the population my age. So epigenetic age is far more malleable than people realize. 

Could you tell us how long had you taken the telomerase stimulants after the second test, and how much older your epigenetic age result you got from the previous test?

Just curious of how much impact of telomerase stimulants on epigenetic age, because, if the rise after taking telomerase stimulant is small enough, the rise in the epigenetic age may be due to something else or it might be a random error.