2523 replies to this topic

[lost69]

I threw away all the c60oo I had in the freezer.  I had added way too much hydroxytyrosol, and experienced no long-term benefits (albeit spurts of rejuvenation).  Wary of c60oo, I have stayed on the sidelines of this protocol, checking back now and again to see how its coming along. 

 

Now I'm looking at giving the protocol a go. Part of my thinking is it could help to compensate for damage caused by c60oo (replenish stem cells).  Moreover, the additional exposure to c60 in the protocol looks small compared to what I consumed in the past.  Also, as I have done a round of high-dose fisetin, and can see doing more rounds of it, ignoring the stem cell situation might not be smart. 

 

Is it safe to use the ses c60 that I bought 4 or 5 years ago?  It's been stored in a box in a closet in an air-conditioned room.  If I should toss the old stuff, what is the best option today for obtaining c60 material of the highest quality?  

 

As I am sensitive to polyphenols in olive oil, what would be the best oil to substitute?  (If  substituting olive oil will negate the benefits, then at least it won't be adding the extra HT which is what had caused me the most trouble in the past). 

 

i was also wondering if c60 from SES, ordered 1-2 years, ago is still good.i immediately put the box in freezer at -20°
 

[aribadabar]

i was also wondering if c60 from SES, ordered 1-2 years, ago is still good.i immediately put the box in freezer at -20°
 

 Yes, it would be fine. (GVA is a C60 researcher)

[dlewis1453]

Hi Turnbuckle, 

 

Could you elaborate a bit on what you perceive to be the main risks of using this protocol? 

 

For example, I have seen you allude to unknowns regarding the consumption of C60, as well as the risk of starting this protocol if you are still fairly young (perhaps because of long term impacts on the stem cells?). 

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Turnbuckle, 

 

Could you elaborate a bit on what you perceive to be the main risks of using this protocol? 

 

For example, I have seen you allude to unknowns regarding the consumption of C60, as well as the risk of starting this protocol if you are still fairly young (perhaps because of long term impacts on the stem cells?). 

 

My experience with C60 goes back to early 2012. The stem cell effects were clear, but faded fairly rapidly, suggestive of stem cell depletion. I thus looked for a way of preventing that depletion, and found it with mito fusion, which I had previously used with mito fission to clear out defective mitochondria. C60 and mito fusion provide the two switches that force stem cell self renewal. The results are impressive, but my experience with it amounts to less than 2 years at present. I've said this is a geriatric protocol because the risks are minimal with the old. The largest unknown is the number of times stem cells can be multiplied. Certainly if you are running out, it makes sense to multiply them, but if you are young and have healthy stem cell pools, multiplying them is wasteful. There appear to be homeostatic mechanisms that maintain stem cell pools at a certain size. If you expand them past that, the body gets rid of the excess without any benefit. The mechanisms are hazy (and varied, given the variety of SC niches), but appear to employ signaling molecules that direct SC's to symmetric differentiation. 

 

...the maintenance of a constant pool of stem cells (SCs) can be accomplished by one of two distinct types of cell division during tissue homeostasis (see the figure): in an asymmetric division, one daughter remains a SC throughout self-renewal, and the other daughter becomes committed to enter a programme of terminal differentiation. This asymmetrical cell fate specification can be achieved either by the unequal segregation of a cell fate determinant, either proteins or RNAs (red line), or by positioning one of the daughters away from the SC niche27,28,102. By contrast, symmetrical cell divisions result in both daughters adopting the same fate, which for SCs would result in the generation of two SCs (a process that is called symmetric self-renewal) or two differentiated cells (a process that is called symmetric differentiation).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2760218/

 

[dlewis1453]

"The results are impressive, but my experience with it amounts to less than 2 years at present. I've said this is a geriatric protocol because the risks are minimal with the old. The largest unknown is the number of times stem cells can be multiplied." 

 

"There appear to be homeostatic mechanisms that maintain stem cell pools at a certain size. If you expand them past that, the body gets rid of the excess without any benefit." 

 

Regarding your language above that I emphasized in bold- is your concern that a young person multiplying stem cells in this manner frequently over a long period of time could age themselves prematurely?

 

Regarding the size of the stem cell pools, I imagine that the size of the various pools varies throughout the body. So pool A may be filled up after just 4 rounds of this protocol, but pool B may require 12 rounds. Therefore some wasteful divisions in pool A will be necessary to complete the process of filling up pool B. This may be further complicated by differing penetration rates of C60 throughout different tissues in the body. Interestingly, your benefits appear to be body wide, including in places as disparate as the skin, eyes and brain, so that suggests that thankfully your protocol is reaching many of the stem cell pools .  

 

How is your blood pressure lately? I seem to remember it was improving at one point. If that trend continued, that could indicate renewal of stem cells in the endothelium. 

Edited by dlewis1453, 06 December 2019 - 11:30 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Regarding your language above that I emphasized in bold- is your concern that a young person multiplying stem cells in this manner frequently over a long period of time could age themselves prematurely?

 

It seems possible. But using C60 without fusion would be even worse, and many people are doing it.

 

Regarding the size of the stem cell pools, I imagine that the size of the various pools varies throughout the body. So pool A may be filled up after just 4 rounds of this protocol, but pool B may require 12 rounds. Therefore some wasteful divisions in pool A will be necessary to complete the process of filling up pool B. This may be further complicated by differing penetration rates of C60 throughout different tissues in the body. Interestingly, your benefits appear to be body wide, including in places as disparate as the skin, eyes and brain, so that suggests that thankfully your protocol is reaching many of the stem cell pools .  

 

C60 has been shown to penetrate all tissues measured. Fusion in the brain, however will require sulforaphane, as stearic acid is blocked by the BBB.

 

How is your blood pressure lately? I seem to remember it was improving at one point. If that trend continued, that could indicate renewal of stem cells in the endothelium. 

 

My BP was never improved by SC treatment. In fact, mito fusion tends to raise BP.

 

[Empiricus]

Regarding your language above that I emphasized in bold- is your concern that a young person multiplying stem cells in this manner frequently over a long period of time could age themselves prematurely?

 

 

It seems possible. But using C60 without fusion would be even worse, and many people are doing it.

 

Quite a number of non-elderly used c60 without fusion in the past.  Some took a little, some moderate amounts, some used a lot.  Are they all better to hold off until they are geriatrics, or could this protocol help repair the damage (compensate for any over-depletion)?   

[dlewis1453]

Quite a number of non-elderly used c60 without fusion in the past.  Some took a little, some moderate amounts, some used a lot.  Are they all better to hold off until they are geriatrics, or could this protocol help repair the damage (compensate for any over-depletion)?   

 

This protocol could help reverse the depletion. Turnbuckle says he used c60 without fusion extensively for a while and appeared to begin developing symptoms of stem cell depletion, but this protocol reversed that depletion and made him younger. 

[Graviton]

Any one uses cocoa butter(or high cocoa butter chocolate) instead of stearic acid? Can palmitic acid in cocoa butter impact on mitochondrial fusion effect of stearic acid in cocoa butter?

Edited by Graviton, 10 December 2019 - 01:12 AM.

[Puppalupacus]

Frankly, I found all of this to be utterly useless.  Nice science and logic, but in the end, completely ineffective.  Growing feet?  Come on.

Edited by Puppalupacus, 10 December 2019 - 01:52 AM.

[dlewis1453]

Frankly, I found all of this to be utterly useless. Nice science and logic, but in the end, completely ineffective. Growing feet? Come on.

Can you elaborate? Did you attempt the protocol and notice no benefit?

[QuestforLife]

Frankly, I found all of this to be utterly useless.  Nice science and logic, but in the end, completely ineffective.  Growing feet?  Come on.

 

I've done cycles of this protocol plenty of times in the past and not had any noticeable results from it. I'm 41. It would be interesting to get a survey done to see what is causing the variable results, i.e. age, C60 source, stearic acid used, other supplements taken with it, etc. 

[Turnbuckle]

I've done cycles of this protocol plenty of times in the past and not had any noticeable results from it. I'm 41. It would be interesting to get a survey done to see what is causing the variable results, i.e. age, C60 source, stearic acid used, other supplements taken with it, etc. 

 

I don't advise anyone under geriatric age to use this protocol. If you still have sufficient stem cells and few senescent cells, you won't achieve much of anything except to create stem cells that are removed and thus wasted by homeostatic mechanisms.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 December 2019 - 10:53 AM.

[dlewis1453]

I've done cycles of this protocol plenty of times in the past and not had any noticeable results from it. I'm 41. It would be interesting to get a survey done to see what is causing the variable results, i.e. age, C60 source, stearic acid used, other supplements taken with it, etc. 

 

 

Hi QuestforLife, 

 

Have you ever tried C60 alone and received  any rejuvenation benefit from it? 

[QuestforLife]

Hi QuestforLife, 

 

Have you ever tried C60 alone and received  any rejuvenation benefit from it? 

 

Yes some good results in 2013-2014, but they were unreliable - high energy for a while, then low energy, short lived mental clarity, alcohol resistance if used over a few days before consumption. I haven't noticed any benefits using it intermittently with the protocol.

 

I've bought from the following: Vaughter Wellness, Carbon60 and Carbon60 Plus (not actually olive Oil from the Livepet people). Vaughter Wellness is what I've used the most as I'm in the UK and I got good if inconsistent results (see above) from it. But it tastes different now and I'm unsure if they've changed the olive oil or it has become oxidised.

 

I've used actual Stearic acid from sigma, dissolved in dark chocolate to make a nice drink. But I'm skeptical you need it as pure as I've used - you get more bioavailabilty mixed up in a dark chocolate say; pity they haven't done a study using actual foodstuffs. 

 

So who here has had positive results from Turnbuckle's protocol? 

 

Maybe when you are much older your organ and blood stem cell pools are so low you can easily notice a boost when they are increased in size. I've noticed much more results by stimulating a release from the bone marrow using AFA or similar - but I always worry about depletion (more youthful now, but shorter life). 

[Kentavr]

Yes some good results in 2013-2014, but they were unreliable - high energy for a while, then low energy, short lived mental clarity, alcohol resistance if used over a few days before consumption. I haven't noticed any benefits using it intermittently with the protocol.

I've bought from the following: Vaughter Wellness, Carbon60 and Carbon60 Plus (not actually olive Oil from the Livepet people). Vaughter Wellness is what I've used the most as I'm in the UK and I got good if inconsistent results (see above) from it. But it tastes different now and I'm unsure if they've changed the olive oil or it has become oxidised.

I've used actual Stearic acid from sigma, dissolved in dark chocolate to make a nice drink. But I'm skeptical you need it as pure as I've used - you get more bioavailabilty mixed up in a dark chocolate say; pity they haven't done a study using actual foodstuffs.

So who here has had positive results from Turnbuckle's protocol?

Maybe when you are much older your organ and blood stem cell pools are so low you can easily notice a boost when they are increased in size. I've noticed much more results by stimulating a release from the bone marrow using AFA or similar - but I always worry about depletion (more youthful now, but shorter life).

The TRIIM protocol haunts me: it really is a real find!

It just needs to work well in middle age.

Edited by Kentavr, 10 December 2019 - 04:32 PM.

[genX]

As far as I know, no one here has commented on the use of stem-cell treatment to boost stem-cells etc.   There is a local doctor in my town who seems to having a lot of success for a variety of conditions by using adipose stem cells (derived from belly fat) as well as exosomes (which I think comes from a Florida company which obtains them from discarded placentas). 

 

What about using injections of adipose stem-cells to increase available stem cells and/or exosomes to "turn them on"?

 

P.S. I've tried C60 olive oil from a few brands for short times and small doses to see if it could help reduce the ringing in my right ear, and the only effect I found was that it made it worse.  Although, it's there may have been some after-effect benefits after I stopped taking it. 

 

P.P.S. The mechanisms of stem-cell treatment effects have not been discussed either, but from what I've read it appears it is more due to cytokines that they release (which stimulate healing in various other cells of the body) rather than what had been thought in the past, e.g. that they "go to the affected area and replace/multiply/fix damage"

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Yes some good results in 2013-2014, but they were unreliable - high energy for a while, then low energy, short lived mental clarity, alcohol resistance if used over a few days before consumption. I haven't noticed any benefits using it intermittently with the protocol.

 

Expect the high energy comes from UCP2 blocking of somatic cells and the alcohol resistance from its antioxidant properties. Both are temporary effects.

 

I've used actual Stearic acid from sigma, dissolved in dark chocolate to make a nice drink. But I'm skeptical you need it as pure as I've used - you get more bioavailabilty mixed up in a dark chocolate say; pity they haven't done a study using actual foodstuffs. 

 

It's possible that stearic acid will react with certain ingredients and thus become less available. Sodium stearate, for instance, has very low bioavailability. The glycerol in triglycerides locks it up and prevents undesirable reactions -- as long as it isn't tristearin, which is also not very available. In any case, I expect that your failure to get perceptible results at 41 comes from your not being aged. It's like taking a drug for a disease you don't have. You won't get much from penicillin if you don't have an infection.

[dlewis1453]

The article attached below discusses a procedure in which stem cells were transferred to women's ovaries to reverse premature menopause.

 

Turnbuckle and others - are we aware of any women who have used this protocol? I wonder if they have had any interesting results. 

 

"In the two participants who have completed the treatment to date, serum estrogen levels have increased as soon as 3 months after the injection of stem cells, and the effect has lasted for at least one year. Their menopausal symptoms have been alleviated, and six months after the injection of the stem cells into the ovaries, they have resumed menses,"

https://www.scienced...80318144839.htm

[dlewis1453]

 

 

Turnbuckle and others - are we aware of any women who have used this protocol? I wonder if they have had any interesting results. 

 

 

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Are we aware of any women who have used the C60 stem cell renewal protocol? 

 

I suspect the C60 protocol could have results similar to the procedure discussed in the article. 

[Turnbuckle]

My latest epigenetic age result from a new company called TrueMe is 13.0 years below my chronological age.  TrueMe uses white blood cells harvested from spit. This is compared to my pre-protocol baseline result from Osiris Green in February 2018, which was 0.4 years above my chronological age. Like Osiris Green, TrueMe uses a reduced set of markers, but different ones. I have another test ordered from myDNAge, which uses a much larger set that in my experience wasn't significantly different from Osiris Green. Osiris Green is now defunct.

 

http://trueme.com/

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 December 2019 - 08:39 PM.

[dlewis1453]

This is great news Turnbuckle! Thanks for the update. It's reassuring to see that your epigenetic age continues to drift downwards. 

 

Have you noticed any additional subjective improvements in health and well being since your last update? 

[Turnbuckle]

This is great news Turnbuckle! Thanks for the update. It's reassuring to see that your epigenetic age continues to drift downwards. 

 

Have you noticed any additional subjective improvements in health and well being since your last update? 

 

 

That's hard to say as the things that could be fixed with stem cells were fixed in the first few months. Still, I wasn't happy with the rate of decline and tweaked the protocol after I sent in the last test a month ago. My perception is that the decline has accelerated. That could be an illusion, so I won't post it until I have another couple tests done in the coming months.

[Graviton]

 

 

TrueMe uses a reduced set of markers, but different ones.

 How much difference in age prediction between the markers tested from both for previous one and the current one? Are they deviated significantly? This is because the gene tested are different. If they are consistent in terms of the age prediction, then it could be argued that life style or supplement regime might affect.

[Turnbuckle]

 How much difference in age prediction between the markers tested from both for previous one and the current one? Are they deviated significantly? This is because the gene tested are different. If they are consistent in terms of the age prediction, then it could be argued that life style or supplement regime might affect.

 

 

Prior to the TrueMe test reported above, I summarized epigenetic test results in this post. The results are not due to lifestyle or diet, or any supplements other than those I take with the protocol. The other effects I experienced early on are only consonant with enhanced stem cell activity. See this post, and subsequently I noted that a distortion in the Amsler grid in one eye had disappeared.

[Engadin]

My latest epigenetic age result from a new company called TrueMe is 13.0 years below my chronological age.  TrueMe uses white blood cells harvested from spit. This is compared to my pre-protocol baseline result from Osiris Green in February 2018, which was 0.4 years above my chronological age. Like Osiris Green, TrueMe uses a reduced set of markers, but different ones. I have another test ordered from myDNAge, which uses a much larger set that in my experience wasn't significantly different from Osiris Green. Osiris Green is now defunct.

 

http://trueme.com/

 

 

 

https://trumelabs.com/

[Turnbuckle]

https://trumelabs.com/

 

 

Thanks for the correction! I got the link wrong and the company name wrong. The company is Trume, the website trumelabs.com, and the TruMe test is also called the TruAge Index. The cost is reasonable at $99 for one test and $169 for two. The spit based sample collection is much simplified. You spit on a card, which takes little spit compared to filling up a tube. The turnaround time in my one experience is about a month.

[cinnabar]

The article attached below discusses a procedure in which stem cells were transferred to women's ovaries to reverse premature menopause.

 

Turnbuckle and others - are we aware of any women who have used this protocol? I wonder if they have had any interesting results. 

 

"In the two participants who have completed the treatment to date, serum estrogen levels have increased as soon as 3 months after the injection of stem cells, and the effect has lasted for at least one year. Their menopausal symptoms have been alleviated, and six months after the injection of the stem cells into the ovaries, they have resumed menses,"

https://www.scienced...80318144839.htm

 

I'm interested too. I'm looking for options for someone who was going through premature ovarian failure, then had cyclophosphamide (as part of R-CHOP chemotherapy) due to Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma about a year ago. Most recent FSH was 134.

[lost69]

turnbuckle

 

i recently had a shoulder trauma swimming and ultrasound detected supraspinatus tendon structural changes on Humeral trochiter insetion.no pains, no swelling, just a bit of discomfort raising hands.

 

i used stemcell renewal few days after trauma and it resolved almost complitely, then i kept swimming few days and a week later problem restarted, so i stopped all sport activities and checked by ultrasound.

i m planning stearic acid+c60, platelet rich plasma and tecar therapy/laser

 

i remember you had some tendon issues, what are the most effective protocols you tried?

i had a bad trauma on the shoulder and i was using nmn, nr and liposomal resveratrol.i think this stuff worsen tendons because i also had tendonitis on foot few days before shoulder.years ago i had same issue on knees and by stopping resveratrol i recovered immediately

 

thank you

[Turnbuckle]

Once again, lost69, this protocol is for geriatric age regression. I don't recommend it for mitochondrial disease.