2523 replies to this topic

[lost69]

Once again, lost69, this protocol is for geriatric age regression. I don't recommend it for mitochondrial disease.

 

well i'm 50 almost 51yo, is this not old enough?

 

shall i concentrate on mitos?mitochondrial dynamics protocols even for 1 week non stop had no effect on me, only first time i did it i felt a little off after this i just felt more energy on it and never did it again.maybe just keep a state of mito-fusion during this recovery period.

 

thank you

Edited by lost69, 11 January 2020 - 03:13 PM.

[lost69]

what i had is a quite normal injury for swimmers, it is called swimmer's shoulder and happens without trauma too.i never had such a strong hit on my shoulder during butterfly so it might be totally normal to end up with this (as doctor told me) but nmn/nr might have made this easier

in italy these type of sport injuries are treated by PRP and autologous mesenchymal stem cells, this is why i thought to try stemcell renewal

 

i might try mito fusion/coq10 on some days and c60 on other days to avoid the stemcell type of protocol

Edited by lost69, 11 January 2020 - 04:02 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

well i'm 50 almost 51yo, is this not old enough?

 

shall i concentrate on mitos?mitochondrial dynamics protocols even for 1 week non stop had no effect on me, only first time i did it i felt a little off after this i just felt more energy on it and never did it again.maybe just keep a state of mito-fusion during this recovery period.

 

thank you

 

 

Sorry, I confused you with longcity90. So yes, it might help you, though you should be careful with the senolytic part until you've done several cycles. You might leave that part off altogether for the time being. 

[lost69]

Sorry, I confused you with longcity90. So yes, it might help you, though you should be careful with the senolytic part until you've done several cycles. You might leave that part off altogether for the time being. 

 

i stopped senolytics in september after smallest skin bruise (not open skin) ended up, by swimming everyday, in infected, non healing wound, requiring oral antibiotics.i still have a scar on the leg from that i think it took more than 4 weeks to heal

Edited by lost69, 11 January 2020 - 04:15 PM.

[Andey]

i stopped senolytics in september after smallest skin bruise (not open skin) ended up, by swimming everyday, in infected, non healing wound, requiring oral antibiotics.i still have a scar on the leg from that i think it took more than 4 weeks to heal

 

  I ve experienced something similar - small scratch on a feet healed for a long time and resulted in a small keloid scar. That was disturbing TBH, as I expected it to heal in a few days, max one week, and leave no mark.

I dont do senolitycs often so my rationale for it was that C60(or something else I took at a time) could have messed up ROS signalling that needed for regeneration part.

 

P.S. as I wrote this message, I ve checked the scar again and keloid part is gone, skin surface is unperturbed, all what left is a small discoloration under the surface. I am not an expert in scars but I assume if scar is formed its not expected for it to dissolve on its own. Go figure what all this mean)

Edited by Andey, 11 January 2020 - 06:57 PM.

[Astroid]

what i had is a quite normal injury for swimmers, it is called swimmer's shoulder and happens without trauma too.i never had such a strong hit on my shoulder during butterfly so it might be totally normal to end up with this (as doctor told me) but nmn/nr might have made this easier

in italy these type of sport injuries are treated by PRP and autologous mesenchymal stem cells, this is why i thought to try stemcell renewal

 

i might try mito fusion/coq10 on some days and c60 on other days to avoid the stemcell type of protocol

 

 

Having had several different injuries.. and tired numerous things, including Stem Cell, Prolotherapy and C-60.. I don't see C-60 as a solution for joint, tendon damage. 

 

As I understand it.. Ligaments, tendons and nerves are the slowest healing parts of the body.. The fact that one is stressing them and continues to use them.. is part of the problem.  

 

Just because you are out of pain, does not mean you are totally healed !  Duh. 

 

10 years ago I tore both bicep tendons dead-lifting 500 lbs.. I sort of jerked it instead of lifting. After 3 years the Andrews Sports Institute in Gulf Breeze, Fl did not have an answer.. I had tried steroid injections, heat, PT, etc.. 

 

Then a SMART friend told me about Vitalzym - Systemic Enzymes.. which are involved in 3,000 body chemical functions.. SE reduce Inflammation, thus reducing pain.. But they also speed healing.. by 30-50%.. like after an operation I have discovered. Your body makes them in abundance until after age 27, then the production falls like a rock. Vitamins do NOT work without Minerals.. and NEITHER WORK WITHOUT SYSTEMIC ENZYMES.. They actually recycle Vitamins and Minerals..

 

So I took them in High Doses.. and in 90 days healed both biceps 90%.  No I don't test the problem deadlifting anymore. 

 

There is still a 5-10% weakness in the worst bicep .. so I don't want to risk injury. 

 

I can not say enough for Vitalzym.. and maybe using MSM-Sulfur too. 

 

There are various other SE on the market.. but this is the best I have tried. Do not take them with blood thinners... as they thin the blood naturally.. monitor your blood pressure to adjust the dosage.. and give up Butter Fly Strokes. 

[Turnbuckle]

Having had several different injuries.. and tired numerous things, including Stem Cell, Prolotherapy and C-60.. I don't see C-60 as a solution for joint, tendon damage. 

 

 

 

Tell us more about your use of C-60 for joint and tendon damage.

[lost69]

Having had several different injuries.. and tired numerous things, including Stem Cell, Prolotherapy and C-60.. I don't see C-60 as a solution for joint, tendon damage. 

 

As I understand it.. Ligaments, tendons and nerves are the slowest healing parts of the body.. The fact that one is stressing them and continues to use them.. is part of the problem.  

 

Just because you are out of pain, does not mean you are totally healed !  Duh. 

 

10 years ago I tore both bicep tendons dead-lifting 500 lbs.. I sort of jerked it instead of lifting. After 3 years the Andrews Sports Institute in Gulf Breeze, Fl did not have an answer.. I had tried steroid injections, heat, PT, etc.. 

 

Then a SMART friend told me about Vitalzym - Systemic Enzymes.. which are involved in 3,000 body chemical functions.. SE reduce Inflammation, thus reducing pain.. But they also speed healing.. by 30-50%.. like after an operation I have discovered. Your body makes them in abundance until after age 27, then the production falls like a rock. Vitamins do NOT work without Minerals.. and NEITHER WORK WITHOUT SYSTEMIC ENZYMES.. They actually recycle Vitamins and Minerals..

 

So I took them in High Doses.. and in 90 days healed both biceps 90%.  No I don't test the problem deadlifting anymore. 

 

There is still a 5-10% weakness in the worst bicep .. so I don't want to risk injury. 

 

I can not say enough for Vitalzym.. and maybe using MSM-Sulfur too. 

 

There are various other SE on the market.. but this is the best I have tried. Do not take them with blood thinners... as they thin the blood naturally.. monitor your blood pressure to adjust the dosage.. and give up Butter Fly Strokes. 

 

i dont see why give up fly (my freestyle technique is very heavy on the injured shoulder as well), doctors told me my injury is quite normal in sports, not as severe as a tore tendon, they said i could even keep swimming very soft but i planned at least 1-3months of no swim and restart only if 100% healed because i swim everyday and 2hrs per day when i have extra time.ordered Vitalzym which high dose do you suggest?by the way i took no antinflammatories as ordered by doctor, too heavy sides and was told it is only for pain, it does not cure, just taking devil's claw

 

i also thought having an autologous mesenchymal stem cells inflitration was too much for me but as this can become very serious, and i dont want to swim less, i think i ll definitely have it too.stemcells prevent tendon damage to happen again in high level professional sports

 

how do you monitor your tendons mri or ultrasound?did you try also stemcells and prp?

 

sorry if we are going off topic

Edited by lost69, 12 January 2020 - 12:58 PM.

[lost69]

turnbuckle

 

what about adding cycloastragenol only during recovery phase to rescue senescent mesenchymal stem cells?or it is not worth since it blocked your methylation age reversal?

[Turnbuckle]

turnbuckle

 

what about adding cycloastragenol only during recovery phase to rescue senescent mesenchymal stem cells?or it is not worth since it blocked your methylation age reversal?

 

 

Not recommended.

[ryukenden]

My latest epigenetic age result from a new company called TrueMe is 13.0 years below my chronological age.  TrueMe uses white blood cells harvested from spit. This is compared to my pre-protocol baseline result from Osiris Green in February 2018, which was 0.4 years above my chronological age. Like Osiris Green, TrueMe uses a reduced set of markers, but different ones. I have another test ordered from myDNAge, which uses a much larger set that in my experience wasn't significantly different from Osiris Green. Osiris Green is now defunct.

 

http://trueme.com/

Have yourself or other people noticed any younger complexion or appearance etc? Do you look 13 years younger in the mirror compared with before?

[Turnbuckle]

Have yourself or other people noticed any younger complexion or appearance etc? Do you look 13 years younger in the mirror compared with before?

 

Yes to both questions. Epigenetic age is the best correlate to chronological age, and lowering it represents a real age reversal. You will not only look younger (as I have noted on this thread before), but you will live longer--

 

"We were stunned to see that the epigenetic clock was able to predict the lifespans of Caucasians, Hispanics and African-Americans," said first author Brian Chen, a postdoctoral fellow at the National Institute on Aging. "This rang true even after adjusting for traditional risk factors like age, gender, smoking, body-mass index, disease history and blood cell counts."

https://www.scienced...60928141035.htm

 

 

A couple of caveats--

 

If you have reversed your age from 70 to 50, that is not exactly the same as being 50, as the measured epigenetic age is an average. You are bringing down age by adding very young cells, and thus the methylation state of cellular populations becomes more heterogeneous. More importantly, as this protocol involves the restoration of stem cell niches by multiplying stem cells, a niche won't be refilled if it is completely empty. So short of circulating pluripotent stem cells coming to the rescue, it's unlikely that type one diabetes could be reversed. This protocol also doesn't reverse diseases of aging like Alzheimer's and mitochondrial dysfunction, but I have posted threads on those and how to deal with them.

[lost69]

starting these protocols before 50yo they might work outside too, i have 3 examples of me and my friends:

 

me, started various protocols in 2016, measured methylation in 2017, 48yo but methylation of 40yo (i will check again as my tendon injury resolves).i look younger but i changed many things compared to my life before 2016, my diet was never bad and i looked younger compared to my age even before 2016 (it is a family thing they all look younger).added face PRP/liposomal vit c on face and many antiaging protocols.the only thing i struggle with is getting fat, if i eat a lot of carbs i look better/younger, if i eat according to antiaging i get same weight s a teen and look a little older

 

friend of mine 48yo, started metformin, telomers activators, senolytics and few other supplements, changed life style/diet and started gym, he looks 10 years younger by 6-8 months of that.he also uses liposomal vit c on face, dermoabrasion and botox but dermoabrasion and botox were used also before and he looked older anyway

 

another friend of mine, he s about 42yo, started gdf11 only, very bad diet of carbs and sweets, was a smoker and everything bad, he looks younger but compared to me and the other friend looks older

Edited by lost69, 15 January 2020 - 10:55 AM.

[ryukenden]

Yes to both questions. Epigenetic age is the best correlate to chronological age, and lowering it represents a real age reversal. You will not only look younger (as I have noted on this thread before), but you will live longer--

 

 

A couple of caveats--

 

If you have reversed your age from 70 to 50, that is not exactly the same as being 50, as the measured epigenetic age is an average. You are bringing down age by adding very young cells, and thus the methylation state of cellular populations becomes more heterogeneous. More importantly, as this protocol involves the restoration of stem cell niches by multiplying stem cells, a niche won't be refilled if it is completely empty. So short of circulating pluripotent stem cells coming to the rescue, it's unlikely that type one diabetes could be reversed. This protocol also doesn't reverse diseases of aging like Alzheimer's and mitochondrial dysfunction, but I have posted threads on those and how to deal with them.

 

Excellent.

What happened to http://trueme.com ? It is redirected to a chinese page.

Edited by ryukenden, 15 January 2020 - 02:02 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Excellent.

What happened to http://trueme.com ? It is redirected to a chinese page.

 

That was an error I corrected in subsequent posts, but I'm not able to correct the original error. The actual company name is TruMe and http://trumelabs.com is the correct link.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 15 January 2020 - 02:19 PM.

[ambivalent]

Lost, would you consider writing up your liposomal-c experience protocol in the ageless looks forum? I've not heard of anyone else doing this, I know there is evidence of improved sunken eyes and wrinkles dosing with lip-c, posted in said forum.

 

Turnbuckle, I'm wondering whether perhaps  alternative theories to c-60 stem cell depletion shouldn't be considered, because there isn't as of yet any user-evidence to support it. On this forum we have mikey, in his 60s,who has dosed 10ml a day for probably 7 years and by his account doing well. Bob Thomason on youtube in his 60s takes 10ml 5 days a week for the last couple of years, clearly improved over the duration - which I'm guessing is way more than your cumulative intake. IIRC you've never taken high dosing levels but concluded that the dramatic improvements wearing off were due to stem cell depletion. Might it be there is some homeostatic response which simply means that stem-cell availability is reduced while on c60 and the benefits others maintain from high doses are ante/inflammatory/oxidative properties (such as improved lysosome function). This is not to suggest that your c60/stem-cell protocol is not performing as you theorise but rather that stem cell depletion isn't necessarily implied without the renewal part of your protocol. Sadly there isn't much c60-theory discussion these days and that rather lends itself to unchallenged and accepted theories.

 

If a person can take high doses over 7 years at a fairly advanced stage of life, not decline - and be typical - then it would seem that the cliff falling risk of taking regular lower does when younger, without stem cell repletion, is not high. There maybe other risks of course, with c60, but if Mikey hasn't exhausted his stem-cell levels, then should a person really be worried at 15-20 years younger at regular lower doses?

[Turnbuckle]

On this forum we have mikey, in his 60s,who has dosed 10ml a day for probably 7 years and by his account doing well. 

 

That's rather vague. What are their epigenetic ages?

[ambivalent]

Well its not vague in the context of emptying the stem cell pool risk - they've taken high doses over sustained periods without falling off a cliff. Both have looked visibly younger (Mikey posted part photos a couple of years ago, though he also took epithalon regularly, which I also believe logic found gave him the best c60 effect).

 

Anyhow, I'm not contrasting protocols, whether they've reduced their epigenetic age isn't relevant to the assertion that there isn't evidence yet to suggest stem-cell depletion in regular long term c60 users. That there in fact might be sustained benefits in high dosing c60 is not discounting your strategy, suggestive that it is not better. But perhaps, your protocol allied to long term increased dosing of c60 might have additional benefits.

Edited by ambivalent, 15 January 2020 - 03:17 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Well its not vague in the context of emptying the stem cell pool risk - they've taken high doses over sustained periods without falling off a cliff. Both have looked visibly younger (Mikey posted part photos a couple of years ago, though he also took epithalon regularly, which I also believe logic found gave him the best c60 effect).

 

Anyhow, I'm not contrasting protocols, whether they've reduced their epigenetic age isn't relevant to the assertion that there isn't evidence yet to suggest stem-cell depletion in regular long term c60 users. That there in fact might be sustained benefits in high dosing c60 is not discounting your strategy, suggestive that it is not better. But perhaps, your protocol allied to long term increased dosing of c60 might have additional benefits.

 

 

You aren't convincing me. Please supply links to back up what you are saying.

[ambivalent]

Well, I'm not sure I need to provide evidence that there's no evidence to support stem cell depletion. Given there are  long term c60 users of 7 years plus, we'd expect evidence of stem cell depletion to surface but it hasn't. With regards to mikey, it would be easier to PM him than trawl through the forums, besides, I don't make things up and neither would I say does he - of course, mikey experiments a lot and is naturally a poor control (he also takes dmso each day). At a guess he has taken 20 plus litres.

 

Bob Thomason's channel is on youtube. I can post later, but currently can't from this device. The difference between now and (-) 2 years is quite noticeable. He has taken only c60 but of course one can't discounted a placebo response to his overall well-being and looks. Anyhow, he has taken at a guess around 5 litres over two years and looks and sounds good for it.

[jgkyker]

starting these protocols before 50yo they might work outside too, i have 3 examples of me and my friends:

 

me, started various protocols in 2016, measured methylation in 2017, 48yo but methylation of 40yo (i will check again as my tendon injury resolves).i look younger but i changed many things compared to my life before 2016, my diet was never bad and i looked younger compared to my age even before 2016 (it is a family thing they all look younger).added face PRP/liposomal vit c on face and many antiaging protocols.the only thing i struggle with is getting fat, if i eat a lot of carbs i look better/younger, if i eat according to antiaging i get same weight s a teen and look a little older

 

friend of mine 48yo, started metformin, telomers activators, senolytics and few other supplements, changed life style/diet and started gym, he looks 10 years younger by 6-8 months of that.he also uses liposomal vit c on face, dermoabrasion and botox but dermoabrasion and botox were used also before and he looked older anyway

 

another friend of mine, he s about 42yo, started gdf11 only, very bad diet of carbs and sweets, was a smoker and everything bad, he looks younger but compared to me and the other friend looks older

 

I'm 39. I've been doing my own version of this protocol along with the mitochondria protocol for about a year. Just got back from Asia, and everyone there said I look like I'm in my upper 20s. Two friends (women I do not date and will never date) asked me what my skin care routine was, independently (they do not know each other). I am more or less Caucasian. Granted, it probably had something to do with me being in Asia, but I did recently look at some pictures from a year ago, and I do believe I look slightly younger, which actually surprised me. I would be curious to measure some of these statistics mentioned, but that would need to be done down the road, as time is short right now.

 

I have also had close and distant relatives remark on my appearance. My brother told me I look younger several months back (although not lately).

 

Note: My hair is still greying and seems greyer, but maybe it has stalled. I seem to be growing a lot more hair than  I was 2 years ago too, but I am on finasteride. The hair pictures from 2 years ago definitely shocked me, as it was SIGNIFICANTLY thinner than now. I also have had a distant relative indicate that I have "more hair every time they see me," several months ago.

 

Needless to say... I watch this thread with fairly close interest. I don't pay much attention to the posts that sound like product ads though. They seem to make their way in here from time to time.

Edited by jgkyker, 15 January 2020 - 04:48 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Note: My hair is still greying and seems greyer, but maybe it has stalled. 

 

 

I have not seen reversal of gray hair either, though I do have a tweak that may address that.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 15 January 2020 - 05:09 PM.

[QuestforLife]

Well, I'm not sure I need to provide evidence that there's no evidence to support stem cell depletion. Given there are long term c60 users of 7 years plus, we'd expect evidence of stem cell depletion to surface but it hasn't.

According to Turnbuckle's theory, it's the stearic acid that tips the balance towards fusion and stem cell renewal (when combined with stem cell stimulation via C60)rather than differentiation and eventual depletion. So perhaps depletion and a fading of benefits have not happened in the people you mention because they have sufficient stearic acid in their diets.

[ambivalent]

 So perhaps depletion and a fading of benefits have not happened in the people you mention because they have sufficient stearic acid in their diets.

 

But we are not looking at exceptions to some rule of accelerated aging due to extended c60 usage. There is thus far no physical evidence to support it. It is just a matter of good science to come up with alternative theories - in fact it is good science to do so even with the supporting evidence of an en masse Dorian Gray Effect.

 

Because the protocol has been working well for TB and others the theory of c60 stem depletion is just assumed to be true. If there is an historical rule to biological theories it is that they are usually wrong or at best incomplete.    

Edited by ambivalent, 15 January 2020 - 10:49 PM.

[QuestforLife]

But we are not looking at exceptions to some rule of accelerated aging due to extended c60 usage. There is thus far no physical evidence to support it. It is just a matter of good science to come up with alternative theories - in fact it is good science to do so even with the supporting evidence of an en masse Dorian Gray Effect.

Because the protocol has been working well for TB and others the theory of c60 stem depletion is just assumed to be true. If there is an historical rule to biological theories it is that they are usually wrong or at best incomplete.

I've personally not seen evidence of a Dorian Grey effect with C60. I'm just commenting based on Turnbuckle's theory.

All we know for sure is C60 is a very strong antioxidant, but its benefits for lifespan - if you believe the one study from Baati - extend far beyond the dosing period. There is also a hint it is strongly anti cancer.

I've looked into the latter effect and posted about it on the Ichor thread and elsewhere. So my 'alternative C60 theory' since you want one is that C60 is immuno-modulary, in particular upregulating the inmate immune system, which would be expected to be anti cancer. As it's off topic from this thread I won't talk about it further here.

Edited by QuestforLife, 16 January 2020 - 07:26 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I began using C60 in 2012. My experience with it was dramatic. I felt younger and looked younger, and there was evidence of stem cell activity, such as the disappearance of scars and the regrowth of hair. But after months and years this began to slow and then regress. The hair regrowth did not last and I began to look and feel older again, and six years later I was using it very infrequently. In early 2018 I got my first epigenetic test, and I was epigenetically older than my chronological age. Not by much, but this could only have happened if it had caught up after those early days, aging faster than normal. When I began this protocol, it dropped 11 years in 4 months. It is now down 13 years. After some recent tweaks to the protocol, this  reversal of aging now seems to be accelerating. It will take more tests to confirm that, but the difference between the using C60 alone and using it with fusion has been remarkable.

 

From Wikipedia—

 

The stem cell theory of aging postulates that the aging process is the result of the inability of various types of stem cells to continue to replenish the tissues of an organism with functional differentiated cells capable of maintaining that tissue's (or organ's) original function. Damage and error accumulation in genetic material is always a problem for systems regardless of the age. The number of stem cells in young people is very much higher than older people and thus creates a better and more efficient replacement mechanism in the young contrary to the old. In other words, aging is not a matter of the increase in damage, but a matter of failure to replace it due to a decreased number of stem cells. Stem cells decrease in number and tend to lose the ability to differentiate into progenies or lymphoid lineages and myeloid lineages.

 

 

In normal aging, average functional stem cell numbers decline relentlessly, and the use of C60 is only going to increase the rate of decline while supplying new somatic cells now rather than later. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, or like Trump’s economy, borrowing like mad to juice up the economy with no thought of how that money will be paid back.

 

Interventions like calorie restriction and methionine restriction are thought to work by preserving the stem cell pool. With this fusion protocol, conservation is not necessary as the SC pools can be expanded without need of conservation.

 

Fusion works, but you have to do it right. One poster decided he couldn’t be bothered with making brownies out of stearic acid, and chewed it instead, which would have done absolutely nothing to aid digestion. His results were horrible—

 

So I'm 27 and I have tried this for a few months and it gave me pretty bad and weird effects.

 

First my skin looks older and worse. I was getting a lot more wrinkles on my face when taking C60, and the skin on my hands and inner arms looks more thin and a bit reddish, and the veins a more thin and a bit blackish like old people get.

 

I think it's causing problems with epithelial tissues and it might be really dangerous.

 

I also get a weird thing with the hair on my body, especially my hands...

https://www.longecit...ndpost&p=862225

 

So clearly it is possible to age yourself with C60 if you don't use it properly.

 

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 January 2020 - 10:34 AM.

[ambivalent]

The anecdote of the 27 year old seems unlikely to be attributable to c60's stem depleting tendencies, rather some allergic reaction or possibly poor quality - the off the shelf product Ichor used perhaps, which appeared pro-oxidative*. The first clear counter-argument is that he never received a stem-cell boon to complement the subsequent dark side of deficiency. The second, how much benefit would be expected at that age from surplus stem cells - how much could he deplete the store by in such a short window to leave wrinkles?

 

With regards to the methylation, if I recall correctly test-variance is high so it would be quite hard to confidently discern increased aging. Given mitochondria were by your account severely damaged by stains, it could be reasoned that a baseline age level of methylation was beating pre-c60 expectations. 

 

I don't have any doubts as to your experiences or that the protocol is achieving remarkable results. I believe you were certainly a statistical outlier in terms of effects, at pretty low doses too. However,  Sensei generated remarkable results but only at enormous doses. There is it feels much unsolved with c60 - it maybe that you're right and depletion is occurring, but with you it occurred at a fast rate but not in others or simply that only a few years off the end of life need to be annexed in order to achieve much improved benefits now - that 20 years not 10 is where we'll see the drop off. 

 

It would be interesting to see if Bob Thomason could be contacted, tested and tried on this protocol because he would make for an excellent control as he pretty much doesn't do anything else. 

 

My concern is (and thank you for your post quest) is that the hotbed of discussion has long died on c60 and we risk being left with a one theory echo chamber, when c60 clearly is more than just a stem cell activator and there have been no reports thus far of damaging effects long-term c60 usage. 

 

 

ps I munched on stearic acid/palmitic acid when on the fission side of the protocol a couple of years back and noticed quite a rapid effect - lurching to energised state from one of fatigue and headaches. Though recently I use hot chocolate.

 

*kmoody observed c60 to be very unstable

Edited by ambivalent, 16 January 2020 - 12:56 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

With regards to the methylation, if I recall correctly test-variance is high so it would be quite hard to confidently discern increased over the aging. Given your mitochondria were by your account severely damaged by stains, it could be reasoned that a baseline age level of methylation was beating pre-c60 expectations. ... Sensei generated remarkable effects but only at enormous doses. 

 

 

The variability of these tests is generally plus or minus 3 years.

 

The state of mitochondria should have no direct impact on epigenetic age, as these are two distinct DNA systems that age in different ways. And by 2018 when I got the epigenetic baseline, I'd already corrected my mitochondrial problem.

 

As for Sensei, he tried C60 at least twice, and I don't see these remarkable effects you mention in his latest posting, where he was glugging it down. This points to a fading of effects. I've noticed with many supplements that people start upping the dose when they stop getting what they got initially.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 January 2020 - 12:59 PM.

[ambivalent]

With respect to Sensei, his initial surge was experimental from the outset if I recall, curiosity rather than frustration at decayed effects, the subsequent high dosing protocol was a bid for repetition (but I may be wrong). As I believe we discussed before, Sensei is an intense but transient poster - its hard to arrive at firm conclusions as to his absence - there was at the time a considerable hiatus after his breakthrough experience, it is just the way he rolls. Besides, I'm not disputing many of the effects can wear off - I've probably taken half a litre in a month before, there was an initial energy spike then a biological shrug. Others have reported fading effects too. Some though have received and maintained certain benefits over a sustained period - c60 acting as a ROS sponge may well provide persistent effects, possibly through as mentioned improved lysosome function. C60 most likely exhibits several powerful properties, it feels unwise just to isolate and discuss one characteristic - likely stem cell activation - and assume observations of c60's effects must fit this theory. 

 

Anyhow, if c60 is a backdoor to stem cell activation then there clearly must be a mechanism to shut it - otherwise, those on high doses would just burn through their stem-cells on paradise island to one day find the tide has just gone way, way out. But it is not what happens. They haven't, I haven't. Perhaps in your case that shut-down response was slow and so achieved remarkable results through ravaging your reserves; in Sensei's case maybe only brut force could liberate the pool.

 

As for mitochondrial function on epigenetic age, I don't have anything like your depth of knowledge of biological systems to prove the counter - my working assumption has been that there is little out of the biological reach of poor mitochondrial function and I'd have thought, if the case, there could be some delay before the aging damage would be rectified through correcting it.    

 

If there is a stem-cell regulatory response preventing rapid c60 induced depletion then we may just well be missing out on other benefits found at higher doses - if in fact we want a stem cell hit, just take your protocol with the c60oo.

Edited by ambivalent, 16 January 2020 - 04:11 PM.

[lost69]

turnbuckle

i was thinking about adding epimedium extract to the protocol because according to these studies it promotes stemcells proliferation and helps in tendon injuries.when should i add this, before stearic acid or at end after c60?

could it make interference with the rest of the protocol?

 

i had tecar therapy same days as protocol with stearic acid and shoulder felt ok until next day, while having c60 only i felt good during tecar but felt the same few hours later

Effects of Epimedium flavonoids on proliferation and differentiation of neural stem cells in vitro https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19703337   Icariin Promotes Tendon-Bone Healing during Repair of Rotator Cuff Tears: A Biomechanical and Histological Study

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5133781/