2523 replies to this topic

[Repack Racing]

Turnbuckle,

 

Thanks for this - you posted it so quickly that I missed it!

 

Just to verify, the only difference from  March is added GMS to fusion and Fisetin to fission correct?

 

 

 

Day 1: Mito fusion/C60 —

1. C60 — one teaspoon if in olive oil, 1.5-2 teaspoons if in MCT oil

2. Sunflower lecithin — 2-4 grams

3. Dihydromyricetin — 2-6 grams

4. GMS — 1-2 grams

5. Glutathione (reduced or liposomal) — .5-1 grams

6. AKG (alpha ketoglutarate) — 1 gram

7. AAKG (arginine alpha ketoglutarate)  — 2-3 grams

8. SAM-e — 200 mg

9. Lysine — 2-6 grams

10. Methionine — 1-3 grams

 

Astragalus root powder, every 10th treatment — 500 mg

 

Day 2: Mito fission, may be repeated for 2 days —

1. Nicotinamide — 1 gram

2. Ribose — 1-2 grams

3. AAKG  — 2-3 grams (AKG can also be used)

4. Lysine — 2-6 grams

5. Methionine — 1-2 grams

6. Fisetin — 100-200 mg

 

You may skip this fission step for the first month. 

 

Notes:

1. I generally add the C60 stack to water spiked with an orange/tangerine “water enhancer.” I take the fission stack as pills.

2. More lysine and methionine may be taken a few hours later.

3. Threonine (not listed) is optional. I have used 5-10g on occasion, so I can't say with certainty if it helps.

4. The solubility of C60 in MCT oil is less than in olive oil, so I use more with MCT oil.

5. I've dispensed with sulforaphane as a fusion agent, but it might be helpful for some people. 

6. Present schedule varies, but generally 4-5 times a month.

7. Sunflower lecithin helps the bioavailability of DHM and GMS and supplies a source of choline that find useful. Sunflower lecithin powder seems considerably superior to soy lecithin for this purpose.

8. Lysine and methionine provide SC nutrition.

9. Astragalus root powder provides a telomerase promoter, but using too much will ruin the epigenetic benefits, as it will lengthen the telomeres of TACs and somatic cells, and block their replacement.

10. I use both AKG (already dissolved by the manufacturer) and AAKG. The first is very fast acting (more important during fusion) and the other somewhat slower (more important during fission). Calcium AKG is expected to be even slower and may be used instead of AAKG. Other AKG salts or AKG conjugates may be used.

 

Caveats:

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment for age reversal.

3. One should avoid alcohol during this treatment. Do not add other random supplements. Telomerase promoters like resveratrol should definitely be avoided.

4. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.

5. All amounts are approximate and based on a 180 pound individual.

  

Results:

Best epigenetic age result to date was 28 years below chronological. Baseline result in 2018 was half a year above chronological. Substantial improvements in appearance and general health, consistent with the drop in epigenetic age.

 

[dlewis1453]

 

I have observed some amazing changes with this protocol, compared to any other thing I have tried so far, but also some worrisome symptoms.  

 

Interesting. Could you please elaborate on these amazing changes and worrisome symptoms? We always like to hear about people's experiences with the protocol. 

[Gern]

I’m planning to give the protocol a try in the next couple of weeks. I’m in my mid 60s, and I’ll use InsideTracker to measure epigrnetic age and blood markers. I have one question though. I generally fast from sixteen to twenty hours a day, often eating in a four hour window (with Fridays days off, only being about 12 hours.) relative to when I eat, what is the best time to use the protocol?

Edited by Gern, 19 October 2022 - 05:30 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I’m planning to give the protocol a try in the next couple of weeks. I’m in my mid 60s, and I’ll use InsideTracker to measure epigrnetic age and blood markers. I have one question though. I generally fast from sixteen to twenty hours a day, often eating in a four hour window (with Fridays days off, only being about 12 hours.) relative to when I eat, what is the best time to use the protocol?

 

 

I don't see where InsideTracker measures epigenetic age.

[stephen_b]

I don't see where InsideTracker measures epigenetic age.

 

Maybe their InnerAge product.

 

InnerAge analyzes 17 biomarkers for men and 13 for women to allow us to calculate your biological age (aka your InnerAge).

 

[Turnbuckle]

Maybe their InnerAge product.

 

 

Doesn't sound like epigenetic age. You can get an epigenetic age report from https://trumelabs.com for1/6th the cost of this innerage product. As for your other question, I would do the fusion part with the fast, and the fission part when you stop the fast. And you should get tested before you begin to see if you've improved.

[Learner056]

Off course and we always like to answer all the questions a person asks (so as not to hoard knowledge).  Realizing human body can be complex

Amazing: Increased energy (with fusion), decreased energy (with fission).  Significant increase in visual acuity.  Mild increase in energetics.  

Worrisome: increased activity/pain in stomach/heart/joints/aches, BP increase, significant duration glucose drops during sleep below 40 - with all these various effects though no negative material consequences so far, even during prolonged low glucose events no negative consequences observed (in fact experienced pleasant dreams including felt super-real meetings with  deceased kin etc).  Interactions observed with certain compounds. 

Overall assessment: Quite impressive.

 

 

Interesting. Could you please elaborate on these amazing changes and worrisome symptoms? We always like to hear about people's experiences with the protocol. 

 

Edited by Learner056, 19 October 2022 - 07:45 PM.

[Gern]

Doesn't sound like epigenetic age. You can get an epigenetic age report from https://trumelabs.com for1/6th the cost of this innerage product. As for your other question, I would do the fusion part with the fast, and the fission part when you stop the fast. And you should get tested before you begin to see if you've improved.

I had assumed it did, given Sinclair is on the board and talks a lot about Horvath and other epigenetiv clocks. On closer look, it may not. I’ll defenitely get a epigenetic clock test before I start. Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Gern, 19 October 2022 - 09:20 PM.

[Confectman]

I have done two cycles in September with one week break. I practice intermediate fasting, and only start eat @1pm.

Monday morning Stearic mix, lunch time Mito fusion. Day 2 & 3 Mito fission (with NMN).

 

First cycle I felt nothing, and second cycle I felt weak and a lot of brain fog. One week after 2nd cycle I got for one night

light temperature (38,5C) which was gone next day.

 

I can't say that I felt better the weeks after the cycles, and brain fog remained.

 

I did TruMe before and after:

 

May age 51

TruMe before 48,3

TruMe after 51 

 

Anybody an idea what I might did wrong?

[Turnbuckle]

I have done two cycles in September with one week break. I practice intermediate fasting, and only start eat @1pm.

Monday morning Stearic mix, lunch time Mito fusion. Day 2 & 3 Mito fission (with NMN).

 

First cycle I felt nothing, and second cycle I felt weak and a lot of brain fog. One week after 2nd cycle I got for one night

light temperature (38,5C) which was gone next day.

 

I can't say that I felt better the weeks after the cycles, and brain fog remained.

 

I did TruMe before and after:

 

May age 51

TruMe before 48,3

TruMe after 51 

 

Anybody an idea what I might did wrong?

 

What is this "stearic mix"? And what else are you taking? Any resveratrol? Any telomerase supplements?

[Confectman]

8am

 

Stearic Acid, DHM, Sunflower Lecithin & Cocoa Powder dissolved @70c in a Thermomix

 

1pm

C60, Lecithin, DHM, Lip. Glutathione, CaAKG, AAKG, Sam-e, Lysine & Methione

 

Next day

1g NMN, AAKG, Lysine, Methione

 

Amino again before sleeping

 

Next day

1g NMN, AAKG, Lysine, Methione

 

I skipped all other supplements during that period (no resveratrol or telomerase supplements)

Just twice a meal/day, GH peptides & melatonin before sleep.

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

What was the C60 source?

[Confectman]

my source is PureC60OliveOil.com

 

I did following application during the protocol period:

 

Cryo bath /morning

Red Light & NIR /morning

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy /afternoon

Intervall-Hypoxie-Hyperoxie-Training (eliminate damaged Mitochondria at low oxygen level) /other day afternoon

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

my source is PureC60OliveOil.com

 

I did following application during the protocol period:

 

Cryo bath /morning

Red Light & NIR /morning

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy /afternoon

Intervall-Hypoxie-Hyperoxie-Training (eliminate damaged Mitochondria at low oxygen level) /other day afternoon

 

 

 

I can't say anything about the C60 source, but I don't see any red flags on their site. There are some one star reviews on Amazon that complain about it, but there are always low ratings on almost everything. Red light is not good with C60 as the combination can generate singlet oxygen radicals, but it sounds like you did C60 afterwards. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy also creates free radicals and affects mito morphology. I don't know about Intermittent hypoxic–hyperoxic training, but it does effect stem cells, and it seems that you are doing a lot of things that could potentially have interactions.

 

As for eliminating defective mitochondria, you might try my mito protocol -- https://www.longecit...dpost&p=917516 

I forgot to attach the plot of the results on that page, but it can be found at the bottom of the previous version -- https://www.longecit...-58#entry903440

[Confectman]

@Turnbuckle  Thanks a lot for looking at my case.

 

I am sure you mentioned somewhere, but what is the good source for C60 ?

 

On Monday I will run another cycle and leave anything, which could cause problems, out that week.

 

My Stearic Acid Food Grade is china source, and I didn't do a lab test.

So I think to go next round with GMS instead.

[QuestforLife]

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy /afternoon

Telomeres length of T helper, T cytotoxic, natural killer and B cells increased significantly by over 20% following HBOT

Hachmo Y, Hadanny A, Abu Hamed R, Daniel-Kotovsky M, Catalogna M, Fishlev G, Lang E, Polak N, Doenyas K, Friedman M, Zemel Y, Bechor Y, Efrati S. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy increases telomere length and decreases immunosenescence in isolated blood cells: a prospective trial. Aging (Albany NY). 2020 Nov 18;12(22):22445-22456. doi: 10.18632/aging.202188. Epub 2020 Nov 18. PMID: 33206062; PMCID: PMC7746357.

[Turnbuckle]

An excellent point, Quest. If hyperbaric oxygen increases telomere length, that will block cell replacement and increase epigenetic age. I've seen that myself by using telomerase promoters.

[Learner056]

You children need to complete your incomplete homework, The Impacts of Short-Term NMN Supplementation on Serum Metabolism, Fecal Microbiota, and Telomere Length in Pre-Aging Phase - PMC (nih.gov).  Telomerase is ubiquitous, maybe even tied to proliferation?.  Nicotinamide/NMN substantially increases telomere length, almost 2x 

 

 

If hyperbaric oxygen increases telomere length, that will block cell replacement and increase epigenetic age

 

Edited by Learner056, 20 October 2022 - 07:00 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

You children need to complete your incomplete homework, The Impacts of Short-Term NMN Supplementation on Serum Metabolism, Fecal Microbiota, and Telomere Length in Pre-Aging Phase - PMC (nih.gov).  Telomerase is ubiquitous, maybe even tied to proliferation?.  Nicotinamide/NMN substantially increases telomere length, almost 2x 

 

 

Although I've never advised anyone to take NMN, this is actually pretty shocking.  It appears that NMN can increase telomere length, possibly by promoting certain microbiota. If true, MNM should be avoided in this protocol. This doesn't appear to apply to nicotinamide, however. The problem seems to incur indirectly via the effect of NMN on microbiota in the gut.

[Learner056]

That makes sense, your protocol is indeed remarkable.  It would be helpful though if you make a separate protocol or writeup specific to Parkinsons, including the dissolution (and excavation) of Lewy bodies - alpha synuclein protein out of the body.

[Kelvin]

Although I've never advised anyone to take NMN, this is actually pretty shocking. It appears that NMN can increase telomere length, possibly by promoting certain microbiota. If true, MNM should be avoided in this protocol. This doesn't appear to apply to nicotinamide, however. The problem seems to incur indirectly via the effect of NMN on microbiota in the gut.

I have been using NMN in my versions of Turnbuckles protocols for almost 4 years on fission days of the mitochondria fission/fusion cycle and NMN for fission when I did my first 6 cycles of the C60 protocol in February and March of this year.

I just finished 3 cycles of C60 over the last 3 weeks and continue to see benefits.

I suspect that NMN is problematic for telomere length only if the frequency of fission days (on either mito or C60 protocols) is too extended.

In the study human telomere length of daily 300 mg NMN supplement takers vs control group was measured at 30 day intervals over 90 days with greater telomere length correlating with longer periods of use.

In my case I plan on doing three C60 cycles every six months. I also do 1 mito fission/fusion cycle every month.

After recently just completing 3 more cycles of C60 where I used 750 mgs of NMN on both fission days (which I do in the morning on an empty stomach) I have this month only had 6 days of NMN dosing (twice a week for three weeks).

I doubt this would influence my gut microbia enough to cause any serious telomere lengthening.

Therefore I will keep NMN at my current frequency of usage.

However I might drop NMN or limit it to the second day of fission in the C60 protocol if I planned on increasing my frequency by doing C60 (or the mito protocol) for an extended period of time like 8 or more cycles in a row on a biweekly or weekly basis.

I also will use Astragalus root once every 15 cycles of C60 instead of once every 10 cycles.

[Turnbuckle]

Therefore I will keep NMN at my current frequency of usage.
 

 

Why use NMN when you can use nicotinamide?

[Kelvin]

My understanding was that NMN can affect parts of the body like muscle cells that neither nicotinamide idea or NR can reach.

Anecdotally this has proven true for me.

C60s effect (combined with NMN) on my muscle tone has been VERY impressive.

In my early 20s I could never maintain muscle tone unless I lifted weights without taking a break for more than a week. If I did wait longer than a week I rapidly lost any muscle gains. Then I would rapidly return to my normal ectomorphic form.

Now with just 9 cycles of C60 this year I can keep good muscle tone and gains for weeks without hitting the gym again. I can also develop more muscle mass with just two weight lifting sessions a week than I could with three or four sessions.

Edited by Kelvin, 21 October 2022 - 01:43 AM.

[Kelvin]

By the way, ALL of the health benefits I got from my first 6 cycles this February and March held up for six months when I paused using the C60 protocol.

I only did more C60 cycles at the start of October and never noticed any decrease in the benefits during this six month break period.

[kurt9]

When you do, say, 4 or 5 rounds of the protocol, then wait a few months, how long does it take for the new cells produced by the proliferated stem cells to be produced and to migrate to replace the senescent cells that are broken down by the senolytics? I would think this takes a period of time and that the period of time would vary for various tissues and organs. Any guesses as to how long this period might be?

[FWP]

In my case I plan on doing three C60 cycles every six months. I also do 1 mito fission/fusion cycle every month.

 

 

What do you mean by one mito fission/fussion cycle? Multiple times switching from mito fission to fusion in one cycle or just one time fission and one time fusion as a cycle? 

[FWP]

I am wondering if fresh ginger, curcuma and vitamin C could interfere with either mito fission or fusion. I like to put ginger and curcuma in a juice. I would say perhaps not best to use during fusion?

[Turnbuckle]

When you do, say, 4 or 5 rounds of the protocol, then wait a few months, how long does it take for the new cells produced by the proliferated stem cells to be produced and to migrate to replace the senescent cells that are broken down by the senolytics? I would think this takes a period of time and that the period of time would vary for various tissues and organs. Any guesses as to how long this period might be?

 

Neural stem cells might be the slowest to mature. Human NSCs might take 2-3 days, while mouse NSCs take one day. These estimates for NSCs are based on doubling times when grown in vitro, according to one commercial protocol. The need for replacements is huge -- something like 1/3 of a trillion cells are replaced every day -- but most replacements are for cells that have short life times. See this Scientific American article.

 

I am wondering if fresh ginger, curcuma and vitamin C could interfere with either mito fission or fusion. I like to put ginger and curcuma in a juice. I would say perhaps not best to use during fusion?

 

I would not add anything in the protocol without checking it out. Even then unexpected interactions occur, and they might not have been published yet -- such as with the above discussion on NMN, based on research that was not available when I began developing this protocol in 2018. And sometimes the evidence is mixed. Studies have shown that ginger extract can shorten telomeres in cancer cells (good in general), while Vitamin C can slow the shortening (bad for this protocol). Curcumin has been shown to increase telomerase, which is generally bad. Telomerase is a double edged sword. On the one hand it can keep stem cells going and prevent their senescence, while on the other hand it also keeps old somatic cells going so that they are not replaced. So telomerase promoters must be used judiciously.

 

The ultimate measure, of course, is an epigenetic age test. 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 21 October 2022 - 12:49 PM.

[Kelvin]

What do you mean by one mito fission/fussion cycle? Multiple times switching from mito fission to fusion in one cycle or just one time fission and one time fusion as a cycle?

By 1 mitochondrial cycle I mean

a single cycle = 1 mito fission day followed by 1 fusion day.

1 C60 cycle = 1 day of C60 and it’s supplements followed by 2 days in a row of fission supplements recommended for the C60 cycle.

[kurt9]

Neural stem cells might be the slowest to mature. Human NSCs might take 2-3 days, while mouse NSCs take one day. These estimates for NSCs are based on doubling times when grown in vitro, according to one commercial protocol. The need for replacements is huge -- something like 1/3 of a trillion cells are replaced every day -- but most replacements are for cells that have short life times.

Got it. I know its a continual process. I also know that blood and guts replace themselves the fastest. I was thinking about skin, head hair follicles, heart, skeletal-muscular, and the like.