2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

by the way what about the antioxidant effect of c60 would taking 500ml of mct c:8 oil(the mct c8 Caprylic Acid) with c60 in it every day give you a insane boost?that would be like 50 million orac antioxidants every day also im making my c60 in c8 oil  hope thats ok 

 

Think of C60 first as a stem cell stimulant and then as an antioxidant. Using it every day will likely deplete your stem cell pools unless used according to this age-reversal protocol, and even using this protocol past the point where your pools are filled is not recommended as we don't know what the long term effects will be. It's not something you'll want to use as a mere boost in the gym. Beyond that, taking 500 ml of MCT8 will probably make a hole in your stomach and send you to the hospital. The recommendation here is one teaspoon, which contains around 3 mg C60 in 5 ml.

[orion22]

wish we made a study on mice and try lots of stuff can t we start a kickstarter or something why are we testing this on humans first you re protocol hasn t even been tested on mice  also dosen t c8 turn into energy very easy i drunk like 150 ml in a day and was ok 

[Turnbuckle]

wish we made a study on mice and try lots of stuff can t we start a kickstarter or something why are we testing this on humans first you re protocol hasn t even been tested on mice  also dosen t c8 turn into energy very easy i drunk like 150 ml in a day and was ok 

 

I encourage you to try this on mice if you want to, orion, but it seems that you are doing some wild stuff with your own body without bothering.

[Graviton]

C60 halflife should be about 3 days if i remember correct

Do you mean half-life of C60 in plasma? The original study seems to address half-life in plasma is like two days or something like that after oral administration. One concern is that C60 remains in cells after half-life in plasma, and the body does not eliminate its saturation for a long time.

Edited by Graviton, 02 October 2018 - 04:12 AM.

[lost69]

Do you mean half-life of C60 in plasma? The original study seems to address half-life in plasma is like two days or something like that after oral administration. One concern is that C60 remains in cells after half-life in plasma, and the body does not eliminate its saturation for a long time.

 

i know but i started application (i used clinical grade device) and the effect on face skin is noticiable already so it really delivers results

 

my schedule is: C60 mon-tu-wed for stemcells renewal or mon-tu-wed-th without stemcells renewal (i mwaiting sigma stearic acid to start it again), wash out fri-sat and redlight on sunday.the best frequency is twice a week but i dont think it is possible to wash out C60

 

if i see improvement on tsh i will stop c60 steamcell renewal and apply redlight twice a week, human trials showed resolution of about 90% or more of subclinical hypo in very short time like 10 applications if i remember correct

 

it is also interesting muscle mass increased 50% on exercise plus redlight on ultrasound

 

i use redlight on face, infrared on thyroid/thymus, red light should not be a concern with c60.i wont use it for muscles because it requires high frequency infrared, i just had it sunday and it cleared small muscle soreness i had

 

by the way it improved my sleep already after one application, it gives the same effect of relaxation after you spend a day sunbathing at the beach.

when i do it i have the same pleasant feeling when sunbathing with the plus of no sweat/excess heat

Edited by lost69, 02 October 2018 - 11:32 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I'm not too concerned about red light when used as lost is using it. By that time C60 should have reacted with whatever it will react with.

 

Red light is an amazing cell stimulant. I've used it to enhance triglyceride output of fat cells for weight loss, and I've used it against a wart with good results.  In the past I've taken extreme measures to eliminate a particular persistent wart in the thick skin of a finger. Those measures work for a time, but then years later it reappears. It's painful when it reappears, so I know a fight is going on with my immune cells on the losing end. This last time I removed the lens from a 300 lumen red flashlight and applied the LED directly on the wart for one minute. By the next day the pain was gone. I applied it two more days in the same fashion and now a month later the wart is almost flush with the surrounding skin.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 October 2018 - 12:35 PM.

[lost69]

turnbuckle

according to your experience with redlight/infrared light is it possible to combine it with c60 stemcell renewal since washout of c60 can be quite long on internal organs

my guess is that red light just need plasma washout of 2 days since its penetration is very weak while infrared light is complex and plasma washout might not be enough

 

what is the possible damage if we expose c60 organ deposits that do not wash out by 72hrs to infrared light?

 

my device is reported as the most potent led on commercial market, platinum ledtherapy lights 180W (100 3watt diodes) about 600w/m2 at 6" distance (its a combo red light/infrared light)

 

i was also thinging to buy piperlongumine despite its high cost, research on it is pretty clear, which does would you use on your sensescense protocol starting low to avoid any side effects?mice studies are very high dose 50mg/kg/day x8 settimane

 

thank you

Edited by lost69, 02 October 2018 - 01:48 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

what is the possible damage if we expose c60 organ deposits that do not wash out by 72hrs to infrared light?

 

 

 

 

IR will probably not be a problem. See the first post of this thread -- https://www.longecit...-and-red-light/

[QuestforLife]

 

Red light is an amazing cell stimulant. I've used it to enhance triglyceride output of fat cells for weight loss, and I've used it against a wart with good results.  In the past I've taken extreme measures to eliminate a particular persistent wart in the thick skin of a finger. Those measures work for a time, but then years later it reappears. It's painful when it reappears, so I know a fight is going on with my immune cells on the losing end. This last time I removed the lens from a 300 lumen red flashlight and applied the LED directly on the wart for one minute. By the next day the pain was gone. I applied it two more days in the same fashion and now a month later the wart is almost flush with the surrounding skin.

 

This is pretty cool. So you think the red light is enhancing immune cell function or numbers in some way and this is leading to the destruction of wart tissue?

 

I've removed a small wart before by basically drilling it out of my skin, lol. But eventually it always returns. My interpretation of this is that if even 1 cell infected with the wart virus remains, it can grow back.

Edited by QuestforLife, 02 October 2018 - 02:28 PM.

[lost69]

IR will probably not be a problem. See the first post of this thread -- https://www.longecit...-and-red-light/

 

ok thanks, not very clear because experiment was on c60 bottle exposure and not body anyway i understand body exposure might just get some more oxidation from redlight, so my once a week schedule should be pretty safe 

if i plan twice a week i might just avoid c60 24hrs before red/IR body exposure and just get little oxidation as well

 

while direct exposure of c60 bottle to both red or IR light can be extremely dangerous according to exposure time/power soruce

[granmasutensil]

One of the worlds experts on phototherapy Dr Michael Hamblin says there isn't a issue combining the two.

 

"Q: I emailed him an important question after the interview….Is there a problem using C60 olive oil with LLLT? 

No problem combining C60 in olive oil and LLLT."

 

https://www.selfhack...therapy-expert/

 

Would that change the protocol as in worth including red light in it somehow?

 

Also what would the updated fusion/stem cell  and fission/apoptosis topical formulations/protocols look like (and which, or both, or if either at all would be good to use for hair regrowth on scalp)?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

One of the worlds experts on phototherapy Dr Michael Hamblin says there isn't a issue combining the two.

 

"Q: I emailed him an important question after the interview….Is there a problem using C60 olive oil with LLLT? 

No problem combining C60 in olive oil and LLLT."

 

https://www.selfhack...therapy-expert/

 

Would that change the protocol as in worth including red light in it somehow?

 

Also what would the updated fusion/stem cell  and fission/apoptosis topical formulations/protocols look like (and which, or both, or if either at all would be good to use for hair regrowth on scalp)?

 

 

I find it strange he would say that, given his paper--

 

2. Photochemical mechanisms

It has been known since shortly after the discovery of fullerenes that these compounds will catalyze the formation of ROS after illumination of both pristine and functionalized C60. In a similar fashion to the tetrapyrrole PS used for photodynamic therapy, illumination of fullerenes dissolved in organic solvents in the presence of oxygen leads to the efficient generation of highly reactive singlet oxygen via energy transfer from the excited triplet state of the fullerene. However, some recent reports have shown that in polar solvents, especially those containing reducing agents (such as NADH at concentrations found in cells), illumination of various fullerenes will generate different reactive oxygen derivatives, such as superoxide anion.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2933422/

 

 

 

So I would not combine them, in spite of what someone said he said on a website.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 October 2018 - 04:43 PM.

[ambivalent]

Just started reading Rirodan's book on stem cell therapy, this quote from a patients experience  seems rather consistent with some on this protocol:

 

"My aha moment regarding the reparative effects of stem cells occurred when a patient who happened to also have a bad knee was undergoing treatment. In order to stimulate the release of CD34+ stem cells from bone marrow, our cancer patients received granulocyte-colony stimulating factor (GCSF), which mobilized these cells from their bone marrow. This patient experienced knee pain relief simply from mobilization of the bone marrow cells, which led me to hypothesize that chronic injuries might be due to lack of repair cells available to repair the injury. The mobilized stem cells likely homed in to the site of the injury - in this case knee - repairing the chronic injury. The treatment of chronic injuries with autologous CD34+ hematopoietic cells, which could be mobilized using the drug mentioned above or pulled out mechanically, has since been researched and found to have beneficial effects in the treatment of liver and kidney diseases, spinal cord injury, and a multitude of orthopedic conditions."
 

[tolerant]

 

In experiments in mice as well as in humans, the drug metformin activates the expression of the AMPK gene, which in turn affects aPKC / CBP and mobilizes stem cells, thereby creating new neurons (cells of the nervous system and brain). The stem cells of mice receiving the metformin drug produce neurons two times more potent. This leads to an increase in the number of new neurons in the hippocampus by 30%. The hippocampus is a region of the brain that actively participates in the formation of new memories. Indeed, as shown by experiments, the ability to form new memories in experimental mice significantly improves.

 

In order to obtain this effect, it is sufficient to consume about 1000 mg of metformin per day for a person weighing 60 kg.

 

http://nestarenie.ru...enie-mozga.html

 

 (Russian language)

 

Important note:

 

1. If you take metformin, take 2 hours before admission, take vitamin B12 in the form of methylcobalamin (!). For example, Methyl-B12 1000 mg sublingually from Jarrow Formulas

 

2. After taking vitamin B-12, do not take antioxidants for at least 10-12 hours.

 

The reason is as follows:

 

metformin - destabilizes membranes of defective mitochondria.

antioxidants - stabilize the membranes of any mitochondria.

 

If you do not observe the interval between doses, the effect of metformin will be minimal.

 

3. Choose metformin with sustained release. For example, Glucophage Long.

 

 

Thanks a lot for that. I might give it a try once I can get hold of some metformin. I can read Russian too -- it's my native language.

[lost69]

ok thanks, not very clear because experiment was on c60 bottle exposure and not body anyway i understand body exposure might just get some more oxidation from redlight, so my once a week schedule should be pretty safe 

if i plan twice a week i might just avoid c60 24hrs before red/IR body exposure and just get little oxidation as well

 

while direct exposure of c60 bottle to both red or IR light can be extremely dangerous according to exposure time/power soruce

 

dont know if coincidence but i feel very weak swimming with shortness of breath after exposing most of the body to red light and IR (also overdosing gdf11 can do this so i stopped this too although unlikly i take it from 2017 and never had sides like this even trying very high dose at start), so i dont think it is good to mix red light and C60/stemcell renewal protocol.i ve used at least 3g of liposomal vit C and nicotinamide+1g riboside but this didn t help recovery to baseline power at all

 

i ll stop c60 for at least 1 week and then retry red light/IR for a few weeks just to see if i get an improvement on thyroid tsh and be sure it really works on regeneration

Edited by lost69, 04 October 2018 - 10:36 PM.

[tolerant]

Are Cycloastragenol and Astralagus extract on the protocol in order to counteract the premature ageing that can result from this protocol? I understand it's all very much experimental, but can anyone estimate the possibility of premature ageing or other negative effects (if so, then what are they?) that using this protocol once a week for a maximum of three months can have on a 38-year-old?

 

[Empiricus]

Vladimir "Valtsu" Heiskanen has compiled an insane amount of research on red light and other wave lengths.  Valtsu writes, "In order to learn as much as possible about red light and near-infrared, I have spent a plenty of time compiling photobiomodulation research into a spreadsheet. My spreadsheet includes currently more than 3000 scientific articles on the subject. "  Every article has been categorized by type of light, color, health issue, results, etc. You'll find a link to Valtsu's spreadsheet under the heading, "5: The comprehensive research database"-  http://valtsus.blogs...d-and-near.html

 

Check out "12. Photobiomodulation treatment 101" where Valtsu summarizes treatment parameters.  He observes that "the therapeutic window of photobiomodulation is somewhat narrow."  Both under-dosing and over-dosing may explain a number of studies that don't find any benefits.

 

Valtsu's take-away from the 3,000+ studies he's examined? "Red light and near-infrared irradiation produce measurable changes locally in cells/tissues/organs...  Animal studies show that photobiomodulation therapy could be beneficial for over 100 different diseases." 

Edited by Empiricus, 05 October 2018 - 03:28 AM.

[lost69]

following what is suggested on turnbuckle post about redlight, yesterday night i added liposomal vit c (4g total), pqq, liposomal gsh and hydroxytyrosole and this morning i feel much much better.

 

BP 10 points down, reaction time 129ms (i could hit 15ms 2 times, i never got RT less than about 189ms) baseline these days was 220ms, HRV/rmssd good they did not change much during these days, energy levels good

 

i don t know if it is normal to feel like this after redlight/IR, like stemcell activation makes you feel bad/fatigue for few days, or if this was ROS and extra antioxidants corrected that.strange C60 and 1g N+R wasn t able to make any difference these days although C60 is antioxidants as well

Edited by lost69, 05 October 2018 - 09:01 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

My present thinking on this protocol is summarized below—

 

1. Taking telomerase supplements on a regular basis is a mistake. In fact, it may always be a mistake. Telomere length is a tool by which the body protects itself from cancer and marks old cells for destruction. Lengthening telomeres injudiciously may produce a short-term improvement in health by rescuing senescent cells, but will ultimately allow cells to age beyond their sell-by date.

 

2. Filling stem cell pools produces a noticeable improvement in youthfulness, but overfilling them produces no further apparent improvement. Old cells don’t die just because new cells are available. With a pseudo-geometric progression of stem cells via fusion/C60 treatment, just a few cycles of the stem cell protocol may be all that is necessary. Three will make a difference (though it might take weeks to see it), and there may be no further improvement after a few dozen.

 

3. Eliminating old cells (and not just senescent cells) allows stem cell replacement and restoration of health. Once stem cells are replenished, this is the bottleneck.

 

4. Apoptosis (programmed cell death) is just as necessary to restoration of youth as filling stem cell pools. In ancient medicine, purgatives were used to restore health, and some of these were quite toxic.  Black hellebore, for instance, was the most popular among the Greeks. Today hellebore is known to contain substances that stimulate apoptosis via the caspase mechanism.

 

5. Caspases are suicide enzymes present in precursor form in all cells. These procaspases must be activated to create a “caspase cascade,” which is like a nuclear chain reaction inside the cell. Once started, it accelerates and cannot be stopped. Since it is programed, apoptosis is orderly and much less toxic to the body than necrosis.

 

6. Adults are said to lose more than 50 billion cells to apoptosis every day, which is about 0.1% of the total, though most of this is limited to a few organs. If dead cells are replaced by somatic cells, this continues the aging process as somatic cells become epigenetically older every time they divide. With depleted stem cell pools, somatic cell replacements predominate and aging accelerates.

 

7. The goal is then to increase the apoptosis of somatic cells and to bias their replacement by stem cells from full stem cell pools (#3 above) rather than by somatic cells.

 

 

And here I’m a bit up in the air. Could one maximize #7 by stimulating stem cells (ie, C60 without fusion) and stimulating apoptosis at the same time?

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 06 October 2018 - 12:21 PM.

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle, I ask you to publish your best protocol "division / fusion", as well as the protocol for purification from old mitochondria.
And I need analysis time to help you.

[Andey]

 

3. Eliminating old cells (and not just senescent cells) allows stem cell replacement and restoration of health. Once stem cells are replenished, this is the bottleneck.

 

4. Apoptosis (programmed cell death) is just as necessary to restoration of youth as filling stem cell pools. In ancient medicine, purgatives were used to restore health, and some of these were quite toxic.  Black hellebore, for instance, was the most popular among the Greeks. Today hellebore is known to contain substances that stimulate apoptosis via the caspase mechanism.

 

 

 

The new study that came out on Fisetin https://www.ebiomedi...0373-6/fulltext

I 've stepped once again on a hype train and did a bout of Fisetin + Dasatinib these days

2000 mg of Fisetin blended with lecithin and some olive oil(it's quite lipophilic) + 100 mg Dasatinib for two days

The second day I 've experienced a flu-like reaction, which I haven't experienced a year ago when I took dasatinib + Quercetin.

Luckily it somewhat faded to the end of the day, at least my resting heart rate dropped from 80 to usual 60+.

[QuestforLife]

When a cell dies for whatever reason, what decides where the replacement cell comes from? Perhaps the next somatic cell to it simply divides. But if a different cell type is required from the cell being replaced, i.e. a skin injury that requires various different tissues before new skin cells finaly cover the injured area, or a large number of cells is required quickly, then I would think stem cells are required and migrate to the area.

There is also some evidence basic somatic cells can be 'induced' by inflammation to de-differentiate back into the required cell type, but this ability fades with age, perhaps because somatic cells have epigenetically aged too far to go back, or maybe inflammation is chronically stuck at too high a level.

Vince has written an informative blog post on the subject:

http://www.anti-agin...n-and-the-sasp/

In any case I think there is some scope for filling the stem cell pool as much as possible, then clearing as many senescent cells as possible, then some sort of telomere lengthening exercise to help the proliferating cells. That's the protocol I intend to work on, anyways.

Edited by QuestforLife, 07 October 2018 - 10:56 AM.

[QuestforLife]

Full text available on sci-hub:

https://www.liebertp...t=cr_pub=pubmed

Combination of nutraceuticals can stimulate various progentior cells better than the normal stimulating factors, atleast in vitro. It is not specified whether division was symmetrical or not, but if we're just trying to stimulate replacement of old cells, then this could be a useful addition to the overarching protocol.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, I ask you to publish your best protocol "division / fusion", as well as the protocol for purification from old mitochondria.
And I need analysis time to help you.

 

I post links to the latest protocols on my profile page. In the case of a fusion/stem cell protocol, I'm now leaning (once again) to using telomerase enhancers only during the first and last of a series of treatments. No point in doing them all the time and giving somatic cells a ticket to live longer. The other protocol for enhancing mito QC is not part of this.

 

As for using C60 with senolytic agents, I've now done that once. There was no negatives after 24 hours, but of course it's as yet impossible to say if there are benefits over using senolytic agents alone. (Using agents that target dividing cells would not be wise.)

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 October 2018 - 12:46 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Full text available on sci-hub:

https://www.liebertp...t=cr_pub=pubmed

Combination of nutraceuticals can stimulate various progentior cells better than the normal stimulating factors, atleast in vitro. It is not specified whether division was symmetrical or not, but if we're just trying to stimulate replacement of old cells, then this could be a useful addition to the overarching protocol.

 

This is the NT-020 product that William Sterog suggested on the AD thread. The researchers generally include the marketers of the product. I'm sure there is some value to it, but the results seem less than dramatic, and the price is high considering what goes into it. My response is in this post.

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle, what's better:c60evoo or c60mct+ht?

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, what's better:c60evoo or c60mct+ht?

 

There may not be much when it comes to stimulating stem cells.

[Rays]

My present thinking on this protocol is summarized below—

 

1. Taking telomerase supplements on a regular basis is a mistake. In fact, it may always be a mistake. Telomere length is a tool by which the body protects itself from cancer and marks old cells for destruction. Lengthening telomeres injudiciously may produce a short-term improvement in health by rescuing senescent cells, but will ultimately allow cells to age beyond their sell-by date.

 

2. Filling stem cell pools produces a noticeable improvement in youthfulness, but overfilling them produces no further apparent improvement. Old cells don’t die just because new cells are available. With a pseudo-geometric progression of stem cells via fusion/C60 treatment, just a few cycles of the stem cell protocol may be all that is necessary. Three will make a difference (though it might take weeks to see it), and there may be no further improvement after a few dozen.

 

3. Eliminating old cells (and not just senescent cells) allows stem cell replacement and restoration of health. Once stem cells are replenished, this is the bottleneck.

 

4. Apoptosis (programmed cell death) is just as necessary to restoration of youth as filling stem cell pools. In ancient medicine, purgatives were used to restore health, and some of these were quite toxic.  Black hellebore, for instance, was the most popular among the Greeks. Today hellebore is known to contain substances that stimulate apoptosis via the caspase mechanism.

 

5. Caspases are suicide enzymes present in precursor form in all cells. These procaspases must be activated to create a “caspase cascade,” which is like a nuclear chain reaction inside the cell. Once started, it accelerates and cannot be stopped. Since it is programed, apoptosis is orderly and much less toxic to the body than necrosis.

 

6. Adults are said to lose more than 50 billion cells to apoptosis every day, which is about 0.1% of the total, though most of this is limited to a few organs. If dead cells are replaced by somatic cells, this continues the aging process as somatic cells become epigenetically older every time they divide. With depleted stem cell pools, somatic cell replacements predominate and aging accelerates.

 

7. The goal is then to increase the apoptosis of somatic cells and to bias their replacement by stem cells from full stem cell pools (#3 above) rather than by somatic cells.

 

 

And here I’m a bit up in the air. Could one maximize #7 by stimulating stem cells (ie, C60 without fusion) and stimulating apoptosis at the same time?

 

My suggestion:

 

1. Rejuvenate a degenerated thymus gland using melatonin. The mice in the study below were administered 15 microg/ml melatonin for 60 days.
   The thymus gland is where the majority of T cells are produced by the immune system. The thymus already starts degenerating at the age of puberty.
   The regenerated thymus gland increases the production of immune cells.
2. Create enough new stem cells using a few cycles of the C60 stem cell renewal protocol.
3. Induce some more senescence in cells by causing a little DNA damage throughout the body. I don't know how, but maybe spend a week at a high altitude (radiation).
4. Let your renewed immune system purge the senescent cells and help it along with senolytics (fisetin, quercetin/dasatinib).
5. The new stem cells will take the place of the purged senescent cells (hopefully).

 

References:

 

Melatonin rejuvenates degenerated thymus and redresses peripheral immune functions in aged mice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12880677

 

Cellular senescence: Immunosurveillance and future immunotherapy

https://www.scienced...568163718300114

[Turnbuckle]

 

Induce some more senescence in cells by causing a little DNA damage throughout the body. I don't know how, but maybe spend a week at a high altitude (radiation).

 

 

A more down to earth option: The Therapeutic use of Radon

 

[granmasutensil]

Would another option be UV exposure from a tanning bed since that would be a very accessible option for most? I realize it would probably mostly only affect just the skin, but better than nothing? Maybe go for 3 days and at the same time take senolytics? Or go get an xray done? haha