2523 replies to this topic

[Andey]

I would add some molybdenum because  tudca+taurine+gsh will all end up in sulfites and it could lead to suboptimal ROS status.

BTW in my experience, nebulized GSH is much more potent at least as anti-inflammatory. The only caveat, it should be mixed 5:1 with sodium bicarbonate to achieve neutral PH. It could be also used topically. 

I am also researching low dose Finasteride now, as studies show its beneficial for stem cells.

 

P.S. I havent seen any study on SkQ1 that was done by an independent lab. The jury is still out for me.

Edited by Andey, 08 May 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I would add some molybdenum because  tudca+taurine+gsh will all end up in sulfites and it could lead to suboptimal ROS status.

 

 

 

A good point. I normally mention the need for a source of minerals and B vitamins, but I have been remiss in doing that here. While they are not part of the protocol as they are a matter of general health and can be taken any time, as you point out, the protocol itself could produce a deficiency, and many have suboptimal levels already. I'll include them on the next update.

 

 

Mineral and vitamin deficiencies can accelerate the mitochondrial decay of aging

 

Abstract

Mitochondrial oxidative decay, which is a major contributor to aging, is accelerated by many common micronutrient deficiencies. One major mechanism is inhibition of the pathway of heme biosynthesis in mitochondria, which causes a deficit of heme-a. Heme-a, only found in Complex IV, is selectively diminished, resulting in oxidant leakage and accelerated mitochondrial decay, which leads to DNA damage, neural decay, and aging. We emphasize those deficiencies, which appear to cause damage through this mechanism, particularly minerals such as iron (25% of menstruating women ingest <50% of the RDA) or zinc (10% of the population ingest <50% of the RDA). Several vitamin deficiencies, such as biotin or pantothenic acid, also increase mitochondrial oxidants through this mechanism. Additionally, other minerals such as magnesium and manganese that play a role in mitochondrial metabolism, but do not affect heme directly, are discussed. An optimum intake of micronutrients could tune up metabolism and give a marked increase in health, particularly for the poor, elderly, and obese, at little cost.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16102804

 

 

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 May 2018 - 10:14 AM.

[ceridwen]

@Turnbuckle your AD protocol did not work for me. However noticing improvement on MitoQ. So will implement the stem cell protocol. See if that helps even more. Then if I get a little clearer I might be able to tackle your mitochondria protocol. Going for some free hyperbaric oxygen now. Is that a good idea?

[ceridwen]

The AD protocol made me throw up

[Nate-2004]

Turnbuckle, where are you getting your C60 these days? Going to order more soon. Also are you mixing it with EVOO or MCT?

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, where are you getting your C60 these days? Going to order more soon. Also are you mixing it with EVOO or MCT?

 

 

The C60 powder was from SES, but I mix it myself. My last mix was a couple of years ago, stored it in the freezer ever since. I've used both EVOO and MCT with the present protocol, but it's difficult to tell which is best as stem cells don't give a same-day response and the effects are cumulative. Still, the results overall have been outstanding.

 

Practically speaking, C60 dissolves faster in MCT oil due to the lower viscosity, and produces a pure purple mix. I was unable to filter it, however, as MCT oil rapidly destroyed the filter media I was using. However, filtering is probably unnecessary in any case.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 May 2018 - 04:06 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Using apigenin to get benefits from an enhanced stem cell pool:

 

Use of apigenin (from chamomile) for skin treatment is not new, but there has been some question about the mechanism of its benefits. I’m using a homemade ointment subsequent this stem-cell protocol, and the effects seem very interesting. Applying it to knees and lower back, old pains appear to be substantially reduced, and crosslinked skin becomes more flexible and more youthful. Apigenin is known to drive mitochondria into fission and stimulate stem cell asymmetric proliferation, thus use with this protocol seemed a natural.

 

Procedure: 2 days or more subsequent the fusion protocol, apply to desired areas. I first tried this after a dozen days of fusion spread out over a month, so I expect my stem cell pool was substantially replenished by that point.

 

To prepare an ointment, I magnetically stirred 50 mg apigenin from a capsule into 25ml high oleic acid sunflower oil for several hours, then allowed it to settle and stirred the supernatant into 75 ml melted coconut oil.

 

[BieraK]

So what could be the main and essentials of the new protocol?
Since I've to buy many things overseas I need to save costs the most I can.

MitoQ has the advantage that it does not loose the effectiveness with continued use, at least these are reports I've read. c60 half-life is longer, so with MitoQ someone could going mad and do several days of increased SC proliferation. 
In my exoerience, c60 effects are always great at the begining, the increased energy, increased sense of oxygenation, increased endurance, cold resistance, alcohol resistance, better skin quality, better hair quality, increased happines and confidence, but with the days even with everyday dosage the effects starts to fade.

Two times after stopping c60 I get a bad cold, my hypothesis was decreased ROS signaling, and so decreased endogenous antioxidant response, after stopping c60 my body was not in a alert for preveting a common cold. 
Since MitoQ half-life is less compared to c60, there are moments in the day when body detects ROS and maintain the status of antioxidants.

[Nate-2004]

I get my MitoQ on Monday. It's 10mg each tab and I figured I'd go with just 1 a day in the morning if it's water soluble. 

 

I know what you mean about C60, I have the same experience with it but so far it's stuck as I cycle it with fission/fusion. I plan to start another round of fission next week after one last fusion push with C60 on Saturday. I'm almost out of the C60. I store it in the dark in a beaker with a stopper but not sure how long before it goes bad. I made it over a month ago I think. SES sells the right stuff for $230 but right now that's just not in the budget so I'm going to go a bit without it and try the MitoQ in the meantime. I'll let ya know how that goes once I get back to fusion around the end of next week.

[aribadabar]

MitoQ .. It's 10mg each tab 

 

It's actually 5mg per tab, 10mg per serving of 2.

[Kentavr]

Nicotinamide Riboside Reprograms Aging Stem Cells

 

http://www.lifeexten...ifespan/Page-01

 

and:

 

https://www.scienced...0428152124.htm 

 

Maybe it makes sense to add to the program?

Edited by Kentavr, 11 May 2018 - 08:38 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

@BieraK 

You can probably dispense with the glycine.

 

@Kentavr

Let's not have any NR propaganda here, please. There are plenty of threads for that.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 May 2018 - 08:45 PM.

[Kentavr]

I have no purpose to promote any drug.

 

Here, the program for the renewal of the stem cell pool is discussed.

The program consists of many additives.

 

Perhaps adding the above material will give a synergistic effect.

 

Have you ever thought about this?

[Turnbuckle]

Do I really have to ask you more than once, Kentavr?

[Kentavr]

OK. I did not expect that this thread of discussion is so controversial.

Moreover, I did not expect that a simple but logical question can not be asked in this branch.

[Nate-2004]

 

OK. I did not expect that this thread of discussion is so controversial.

Moreover, I did not expect that a simple but logical question can not be asked in this branch.

 

 

That's not what is happening here. MikeDC has pretty much annoyed everyone to death with NR posts on threads where that isn't the point of the post. There are plenty of posts about NR in not only this thread but the Manipulating Mitochondrial Dynamics thread as well. There's even a thread on reversing aging cells in the resveratrol thread.  

 

Some of us on this C60 protocol are also taking NR sometimes, but the point of this thread is on replenishing our supply of stem cells through stimulating synchronous cell division using both fusion and C60. NR is probably good for the fission side of things but the article you posted isn't relevant to this goal. I think everyone is just tired of it and it's mostly MikeDCs fault. Start a separate thread on that link you posted.

Edited by Nate-2004, 12 May 2018 - 03:16 PM.

[DareDevil]

That's not what is happening here. MikeDC has pretty much annoyed everyone to death with NR posts on threads where that isn't the point of the post.... I think everyone is just tired of it and it's mostly MikeDCs fault. Start a separate thread on that link you posted.

Yes Nate I concur.

 

While I myself take NAD+ by IM injection and therefore have nothing against NR, it has infiltrated and diverted discussions in so many threads that one is tempted to exit topics once MikeDC brings it on.

 

As an adept of Stem Cell Treatments having done one with autologous fat and another with autologous bone marrow, I prefer it if we stick to what promotes stem cells in this Stem Cell section of the forum.

 

Cheers,

DD

[Nate-2004]

 

Using apigenin to get benefits from an enhanced stem cell pool:

 

 

 

Use of apigenin (from chamomile) for skin treatment is not new, but there has been some question about the mechanism of its benefits. I’m using a homemade ointment subsequent this stem-cell protocol, and the effects seem very interesting. Applying it to knees and lower back, old pains appear to be substantially reduced, and crosslinked skin becomes more flexible and more youthful. Apigenin is known to drive mitochondria into fission and stimulate stem cell asymmetric proliferation, thus use with this protocol seemed a natural.

 

 

 

Procedure: 2 days or more subsequent the fusion protocol, apply to desired areas. I first tried this after a dozen days of fusion spread out over a month, so I expect my stem cell pool was substantially replenished by that point.

 

 

 

To prepare an ointment, I magnetically stirred 50 mg apigenin from a capsule into 25ml high oleic acid sunflower oil for several hours, then allowed it to settle and stirred the supernatant into 75 ml melted coconut oil.

 

 

Why high oleic sunflower oil?

[Werper]

Off topic,

 

While everyone is discussing Mikedc,  I think I will throw it out just for thought.   While everyone thinks he's a shill for NR,  I believe he might be the opposite.    Look at the effect he is having on NR,  people are to the point were they don't even want to discuss it in a certain light.   What does NR compete with?  MItq?  I don't know.  Maybe a competitor to NR is really the shill.  Something to keep in mind.

[Turnbuckle]

Why high oleic sunflower oil?

 

It was thin and had no smell. And I had some for another purpose, so I used it.

[lost69]

is it ok to use 5caps of life extensions old formula AMPK activator (ingredients per cap 373mg rose hip, 150mg gynostemma)?i bought so many of these...

Experimental stem cell protocol, biased for self-renewal

 

 

Time 0 —

Stearic acid — 10 g, in hot chocolate or brownie (Fusion)

 

Time 1:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg (Mitochondrial biogenesis & stem cell self-renewal)

PQQ — 40 mg (Mitochondrial biogenesis)

Jiaogulan — 800 mg (AMPK activator)

L-Threonine — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

Taurine — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

Core brand Liposomal Glutathione — .5 g (Master antioxidant, telomere protection/lengthening)

ALA — 300 mg (Antioxidant, stimulates stem cell proliferation)

 

Time 2:00 —

C60 — 1 teaspoon of .6 mg/ml in oil, 3 mg C60 (Mitochondria and stem cell stimulant)

Vitamin C — 1 g (Antioxidant to protect telomeres)

L-Threonine* — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

Taurine* — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

*Again later if feeling fatigue

 

 

 

Suggested schedule—Three days in a row, then a break of two or more days.

 

 

 

Notes:

 

It appears that fusion does not completely dictate self-renewal over differentiation, but only biases stem cells in that direction. So while fission may be necessary for rapid mito QC, it is likely unnecessary for this stem cell protocol. https://www.scienced...934590916300820

 

Creating new stem cells is relatively fast and can be considered completed after 24 hours. New somatic cells take longer — days to weeks for most cell types, and more than a year for neurons. https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5669577/

 

I used glutathione and other antioxidants to maintain and potentially lengthen telomeres during self-renewal. Liposomal glutathione is more available orally, and I used Core brand Liposomal Glutathione as it had the highest rating on Amazon. (I haven't tried any others.)

http://www.jbc.org/c...9/33/34332.full

 

Stearic acid in brownies or hot chocolate on an empty stomach speeds up the digestion and absorption. Digestion of raw stearic acid powder or flakes will likely take a long and variable amount of time. These options were discussed previously in this thread. My source of stearic acid was Amazon (US) — 3 Lbs Stearic Acid White Flakes - Food Grade NF/USP

 

Stem cell nutrients L-Threonine and taurine were mixed into fruit juice—1.5 teaspoons each. The powders are almost tasteless. I’ve noticed fatigue an hour or more later if I don’t take them. This is especially true for L-Threonine.

https://www.scienced...873506112000232

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4206991/

 

I deleted DHEA and NAC used in previous trials due their hypertensive effects. In any case, one should have a BP monitor available when using this protocol, esp. if one is hypertensive.

 

The C60 was either dissolved in EVOO or in MCT oil. In the latter case I grafted CoQ10 to it with red light under vacuum. The effect is subtly different, but it is too soon to make a recommendation. This I discussed on another thread a couple of years ago. See post #24.

 

[Kentavr]

Turnbuckle

 

I saw what "holivar" was arranged for nicotinamide ribozide.

Especially here:

 

https://www.longecit...inamide-ribose/

 

I have read the messages in this thread and even wrote comments.

 

I did not know that this topic lasts so long, and there is still no clear answer.

---

 

For my part, I can make the following suggestions:

 

1. The use of the drug ВЕЗУГЕН - stimulates the proliferation of stem cells (I wrote about it on the forum)

 

Watch the video:

 

 

2. The use of the drug BONOMARLOT (activation of the reserve of bone marrow stem cells)

 

Watch the video (time: 3:00 - 4:18):

 

 

3. Fasting

 

shows good results in people with fasting for 5 days, followed by a mandatory 25-day recovery.

 

Fasting is needed to reduce "IGF-1" and activate "FOXO1"

 

In the method of fasting, only 8 cycles.

 

After 1 cycle - slight deterioration of the stem cell pool

2 and 3 cycles - almost complete cell compensation, without deterioration

4 cycle - the number of stem cells is slightly higher than after the onset of the FMD diet.

after a complete 8 cycle - the number of cells in the bone marrow is 6 times greater than before fasting

 

Watch video:

 

 

However, we must closely monitor the potassium content in the body.

With a decrease in potassium content, such fasting can be deadly.

 

4. Elderly hard to observe fasting. Instead, you can use the FMD diet with the same time intervals. She can show a decent result.

 

Watch the video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u74vt47Mdo

 

If you combine the FMD diet with the drugs I mentioned above, there can be a powerful growth of stem cells.

 

 

 

Edited by Kentavr, 13 May 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Stem cell self-renewal protocol, updated

 

 

Time 0 —

Stearic acid — 10 g, in hot chocolate or brownie (Mito fusion)

 

Optional—

Mito cofactors — e.g., one cap of LEF brand “Only Trace Minerals.” This can be taken at other times, preferably with meals to avoid nausea.

 

Time 1:00 —

TUDCA — 500 mg (Mito biogenesis & stem cell self-renewal)

PQQ — 40 mg (Mitochondrial biogenesis)

Jiaogulan — 800 mg (AMPK activator, or other such products, e.g., LEF brand AMPK activator)

L-Threonine — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

Core brand Liposomal Glutathione — .5 g (Master antioxidant, telomere protection/lengthening, see note 1)

ALA — 300 mg (Antioxidant, stimulates stem cell proliferation)

 

Optional—

Taurine — 5 g (Stem cell nutrition)

NAC — 600 mg (Enhances glutathione, works with taurine to produce H2S — see note 2)

Rose hips —  500 mg (Another AMPK activator)

 

Time 2:00 —

C60 — 1 teaspoon of .6 mg/ml in oil, 3 mg C60 (Mito and stem cell stimulant)

Vitamin C — 2 g (Antioxidant to protect telomeres and to promote hepatocyte growth factor for satellite cells)

 

Optional—

Potassium nitrate — 300 mg (With exercise, for satellite cells — see note 3)

Gym, 2:30

And later, if feeling fatigue, L-Threonine — 5 g

 

 

L-Threonine, taurine and NAC can be mixed into fruit juice. Mix dry powders first for best dispersion of NAC. Stearic acid in brownies or hot chocolate on an empty stomach speeds up the digestion and absorption. Digestion of raw stearic acid powder or flakes (which does not melt at body temp) will likely take a long and variable amount of time. Imagine digesting candle wax.

 

Suggested schedule—Three days in a row, then a break of two or more days.

 

 

 

Notes:

 

1. Glutathione and other antioxidants maintain and potentially lengthen telomeres during self-renewal. Liposomal glutathione is more available orally, and I used Core brand Liposomal Glutathione only as it had the highest rating on Amazon. I have not tried any others.

Glutathione Regulates Telomerase Activity in 3T3 Fibroblasts

 

2. H2S is important to stem cell differentiation, while taurine + NAC creates H2S and also promote cardiovascular health.

Boosting endogenous production of vasoprotective hydrogen sulfide via supplementation with taurine and N-acetylcysteine: a novel way to promote cardiovascular health

Hydrogen Sulfide Maintains Mesenchymal Stem Cell Function and Bone Homeostasis…

 

3. Satellite cells are stem cells found in muscle tissue. They are known to proliferate given exercise, nitric oxide (NO), and hepatocyte growth factor (HGF). The optional potassium nitrate will produce NO, while Vitamin C produces HGF. This may increase muscle mass over the effects of C60/fusion alone.

Release of Hepatocyte Growth Factor from Mechanically Stretched Skeletal Muscle Satellite Cells and Role of pH and Nitric Oxide

Chemical synthesis of nitric oxide in the stomach from dietary nitrate in humans.

Stimulation of hepatocyte growth factor production by ascorbic acid

[QuestforLife]

Hi Turnbuckle, you mention the possibility of fatigue - is this something you'd expect?

I did the fusion protocol with stearic acid (4grams) and (later) 5ml of C60 in olive oil, twice over the last three days. Each time I experienced extreme tiredness (PQQ didn't help), which took 4 hours to pass and also made me very hungry. I attribute the fatigue to the stearic acid as that's the only thing I haven't taken before. Previously I've used cocoa butter or 90% dark chocolate to end a fission cycle and that made me feel better.

I tried stearic acid in penaut butter (1st time) and dissolved in hot chocolate (2nd time), with the same result.

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Turnbuckle, you mention the possibility of fatigue - is this something you'd expect?

I did the fusion protocol with stearic acid (4grams) and (later) 5ml of C60 in olive oil, twice over the last three days. Each time I experienced extreme tiredness (PQQ didn't help), which took 4 hours to pass and also made me very hungry. I attribute the fatigue to the stearic acid as that's the only thing I haven't taken before. Previously I've used cocoa butter or 90% dark chocolate to end a fission cycle and that made me feel better.

I tried stearic acid in penaut butter (1st time) and dissolved in hot chocolate (2nd time), with the same result.

 

I've seen this a few times a while back. It occurred hours afterward, though it wasn't extreme. I haven't experienced it recently with the above protocol, but L-Threonine and/or a slug of olive oil should get rid of it. With the above, hunger is reduced and I've definitely gained muscle mass while losing fat. Threonine is fuel for stem cells, and it's possible that creating new ones could cause a temporary deficiency. Deficiency can result in hypoglycemic symptoms, at least according to this site.

 

Threonine metabolism and embryonic stem cell self-renewal.

 

An unexpected finding from these studies was that in addition to its well known importance as protein precursor, threonine dehydrogenase-mediated threonine catabolism provides essential metabolic building blocks for use in multiple biosynthetic pathways and epigenetic modifications required for self-renewal and maintenance of pluripotency.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24232288

 

 

Threonine is non-toxic and you can take more than the 5 g of the protocol.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 May 2018 - 12:59 PM.

[QuestforLife]

Thanks Turnbuckle, I'll try the protocol again next weekend but with the addition of Threonine and report back.

[sthira]

...Fasting...

Kentavr, contribute to the topic of fasting here:

https://www.longecit...e-4#entry848590

[Nate-2004]

Kentavr, contribute to the topic of fasting here:

https://www.longecit...e-4#entry848590

 

I don't know Russian so I couldn't even watch the videos.

[QuestforLife]

I'm skeptical that fasting can achieve the level of rejuvenation we are aiming for. If it could we'd know about it by now as various yogis and asthetics have been practicing it for centuries. We know it can extend out healthspan, but my guess is this is mostly an effect of stress adaptation of old tissues, rather than a production of new, refreshed tissues. There may be some flexibility in the immune system, as that has extraordinary proliferative ability, but even then it's progenitor cells have limits, as we see with AIDS infections exhausting it.

[Turnbuckle]

I posted a number of substances known to stimulate stem cells--esp. neural stem cells--on the first page of this thread. I am presently using TUDCA but not the others for various reasons. Certainly fasting is another way of activating stem cells, but none of these can compete with C60, in my opinion, esp. as it is being used here in conjunction with stearic acid to put mitochondria into fusion and bias proliferation to self-renewal. Possibly it would be helpful to fast 24 hours prior to this protocol, but the protocol as is appears to produce remarkable results.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 14 May 2018 - 08:07 PM.