2523 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

This is an update on my personal experiment with age reversal. The previous update was in post 1403. This time I added AAKG (2-3 grams) to the SC protocol, which appears to have greatly accelerated the reverse aging. The intervals between SC treatments varied, but were roughly every ten days.

 

Update on my epigenetic age.

The last 6 tests from TruMe --

 

Date      Epigenetic age - Chronological age, years

02/2018.... +0.5 (Baseline before treatments)

11/2019.... -13.0

02/2020.... -14.2

04/2020.... -14.5

06/2020.... -13.0 (+ cinnamon powder)

08/2020.... -11.3 (+ cinnamaldehyde & eugenol)

10/2020.... -22.6 (+ Arginine AKG, 2-3 grams)

 

I'm expecting another test result from EipAging that was taken within ten minutes of this TruMe test.

 

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 December 2020 - 09:51 AM.

[nadaepeu]

These are excellent news Turnbuckle!

 

Thank you for sharing all this information!

 

 

 

This is an update on my personal experiment with age reversal. The previous update was in post 1403. This time I added AAKG (2-3 grams) to the SC protocol, which appears to have greatly accelerated the reverse aging. The intervals between SC treatments vary, but are roughly every ten days.

 

Update on my epigenetic age.

The last 6 tests from TruMe --

 

Date      Epigenetic age - Chronological age, years

02/2018.... +0.5 (Baseline before treatments)

11/2019.... -13.0

02/2020.... -14.2

04/2020.... -14.5

06/2020.... -13.0 (+ cinnamon powder)

08/2020.... -11.3 (+ cinnamaldehyde & eugenol)

10/2020.... -22.6 (+ Arginine AKG, 2-3 grams)

 

I'm expecting another test result from EipAging that was taken within ten minutes of this TruMe test.

 

 

Edited by panais, 01 December 2020 - 09:10 AM.

[userCK]

I haven't yet started these protocols (neither Mito Fission/Fusion nor Stem Cell Renewal) because I was waiting for Epigenetic Age results. Just got them!

 

Here: https://imgur.com/tUy2qg8

 

Sad, but not surprised, to see my biological age is 43, 5 years older than my chronological age of 37. Right after taking Accutane, Finasteride for a month or two, I felt immediate degradation in my general all around health. I used to feel like I was 16 before taking those meds. So, who knows how much those meds aged me in just a few months!

 

Hope some of it will be reversed with these protocols.

 

 WhatsApp Image 2020-12-01 at 05.35.15.jpeg   61.59KB   1 downloads

[Turnbuckle]

I haven't yet started these protocols (neither Mito Fission/Fusion nor Stem Cell Renewal) because I was waiting for Epigenetic Age results. Just got them!

 

Here: https://imgur.com/tUy2qg8

 

Sad, but not surprised, to see my biological age is 43, 5 years older than my chronological age of 37. Right after taking Accutane, Finasteride for a month or two, I felt immediate degradation in my general all around health. I used to feel like I was 16 before taking those meds. So, who knows how much those meds aged me in just a few months!

 

Hope some of it will be reversed with these protocols.

 

WhatsApp Image 2020-12-01 at 05.35.15.jpeg

 

 

Accutane, which is 13-cis RA, has a spectrum of effects, including to the epigenome --

 

Conclusions.: Exposure to 13-cis RA inhibits cell proliferation, increases cell death, alters gene expression, changes signaling pathways, and promotes inflammatory mediator and protease expression in meibomian gland epithelial cells. 

https://iovs.arvojou...ticleid=2189812

 

 

And Finasteride, which can render you impotent, likewise has many side effects, such as increased differentiation of stem cells --

 

It has been also reported that DHT would confine the differentiation capacity of MSCs so that a reduction in DHT levels caused by Finasteride would be accompanied by increased facilitation in differentiation of MSCs to cardiomyocyte by means of the signals originating from the injured cardiac tissue.

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/22289340/

 

 

A bit sketchy, but in general, increased SC differentiation will certainly provide benefits when needed, but long-term it could lead to SC pool depletion.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 December 2020 - 10:49 AM.

[Fafner55]

Turnbuckle,

Could you summarize your current protocol?

[QuestforLife]

This is an update on my personal experiment with age reversal. The previous update was in post 1403. This time I added AAKG (2-3 grams) to the SC protocol, which appears to have greatly accelerated the reverse aging. The intervals between SC treatments varied, but were roughly every ten days.

Update on my epigenetic age.
The last 6 tests from TruMe --

Date Epigenetic age - Chronological age, years
02/2018.... +0.5 (Baseline before treatments)
11/2019.... -13.0
02/2020.... -14.2
04/2020.... -14.5
06/2020.... -13.0 (+ cinnamon powder)
08/2020.... -11.3 (+ cinnamaldehyde & eugenol)
10/2020.... -22.6 (+ Arginine AKG, 2-3 grams)

I'm expecting another test result from EipAging that was taken within ten minutes of this TruMe test.

Very encouraging results.

Just for reference I took AKG (a mix of calcium and magnesium salt) ~900mg/day for almost 6 months and reversed my biological age from 42 to 36.7 years. Both tests TruMe; chronological age 41.8 at time of second test. I did not note any improvements in blood pressure, heart rate, Heart rate variability or endurance. In fact for ~ the last month I experienced fatigue that may or may not be related to the AKG dosing

Have you noticed any improvements in any of other biomarkers Turnbuckle like BP or HRV?

A good experiment at this point might be for someone who has never tried TB's protocol to try arginine-AKG on its own and measure the effect on methylation age.

I assume TruMe are now up and running again?

Can you supply a link to the other company you used by way of comparison?

[Turnbuckle]

AGE REVERSAL PROTOCOL update

 

This is an update from post 1175.  The major change is the addition of AAKG. After I added that, I felt there was definite acceleration in age reduction. As measured by Trume, my epigenetic age is now 22.6 years below my chronological age, a doubling of the decline in just 2 months. See this post. Since AKG is involved with TET-mediated DNA demethylation, it may be removing unnecessary methylation marks on older stem cells.

 

 

Caveats:

1. This is a work in progress.

2. It is intended as a geriatric treatment for age reversal.

3. One should avoid alcohol during this treatment.

4. A link to the latest protocol can always be found on my profile page.

 

  

 

Part 1: Stem cell self-renewal

 

 

Time 0 —

¹Stearic acid — 5-10 g (food grade, in brownie)

 

  

Time 3:00 —

²Sulforaphane — 100 mg

³Liposomal glutathione — 1 g

⁴SAM-e — 500 mg

⁵AAKG  — 2-3 g

 

Time 3:30 —

⁶C60 — 3 mg (in oil)

⁷Amino acids: Threonine — 2-3 g, Lysine — 2 g, Methionine — 1 g, Leucine — 1 g

 

Lysine and Methionine should be repeated as necessary every few hours.

 

 

Part 2: Senescent cell replacement (24 hours later or more)

 

⁷Lysine — 2 g, Methionine — 1 g

⁸Nicotinamide — 2g, Ribose — 2g

⁹Curcumin (liposomal or phytosomal) — 2g

 

Lysine and Methionine should be repeated as necessary every few hours.

 

A more aggressive senolytic protocol may be used from time to time for the resistant senescent cells that tend to build up with age. This would include —

 

¹⁰Azithromycin 500 mg

¹⁰Quercetin phytosome 250 mg

 

 

Notes:

 

(1) This is for mito fusion, which directs SCs to self-renewal. Food grade stearic acid is a waxy triglyceride with about 50% stearic acid moieties. It has a high melting point and will have very poor availability unless properly prepared. Baking it into brownies is one option: Using a box mix that calls for 1/2 to 2/3 cups of oil, eliminate the oil and add 120 grams of stearic acid flakes or granules, leaving the rest of the recipe unchanged. Mix at room temp using a power mixer, bake according to directions on the box, then divide 3x4 and freeze most of it for later use. Use ½ to 1 brownie for this protocol.

 

Mango butter is an option. Its melting point is so low it can be mixed into a cup of hot chocolate. 

 

(2) Sulforaphane penetrates the BBB to produce mito fusion there, while stearic acid is blocked. 50 mg caps can be obtained from Amazon — Thorne Research - Crucera-SGS - Broccoli Seed Extract for Antioxidant Support - Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS)

 

(3) Primary antioxidant.

 

(4) Methyl group donor.

 

(5) AAKG is arginine-alpha-ketoglutarate. Alpha-ketoglutarate facilitates TET-mediated DNA demethylation of stem cells.

 

(6) UCP2 blocker. A teaspoon of commercially available C60 oil contains about 3 mg.

 

(7) These can be used in caps or tablets, though I use a commercial blend of essential amino acids here, adding extra lysine, methionine and leucine. Pluripotent cells have a special need for these three. I would spread out the doses as indicated, to avoid nausea. 

 

(8) Used together, nicotinamide and ribose rapidly increase NAD+, which drives mitochondrial fission, required for senescent cell apoptosis and replacement.

 

Niacin and ribose can alternatively be used at 1 g each. But this is only for people familiar with the niacin flush.

 

(9) Senolytic

 

(10) A pair of senolytics used to remove more resistant senescent cells. Hypothetically, these become more numerous with age.

 

A mathematical model, which for simplicity only uses two types of senescent cells (removable and non-removable), achieves an excellent fit to experimental data. Interestingly, our model also predicts a slowdown of senescent cell turnover with age, in our case explained by an accumulation of non-removable senescent cells relative to removable ones.

https://www.fightagi...lar-senescence/

 

 

 

Suggested frequency: One cycle every 10-14 days. Part 2 may be repeated more than once during that time, but not more than 3 days in a row.

 

 

Epigenetic testing:

 

Trume

Epiagingusa

MyDNAge

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 December 2020 - 05:50 PM.

[kurt9]

This is frigging great! I don't need it right now. But its comforting to know that this kind of option exists down the road for me when I need it.

[mister_blue]

Actually Turnbuckle, I’ve been wanting to ask you for some time: how do you FEEL ?

It’s totally unscientific and biased, but I was curious if you also feel the difference while your epigenetic age decreasing ?

[Turnbuckle]

Actually Turnbuckle, I’ve been wanting to ask you for some time: how do you FEEL ?

It’s totally unscientific and biased, but I was curious if you also feel the difference while your epigenetic age decreasing ?

 

 

I feel and look better than I did twenty years ago. This age reversal protocol is a real reversal of aging, in my opinion, with certain limitations. Since it involves repopulating stem cells niches by proliferation, those niches without any stem cells at all may never recover. So a hair follicle that has turned gray will stay gray, though it's possible that VSELs may ultimately supply those empty niches. Other sources of aging such as plaque buildup won't be fixed, at least not directly.

[Fafner55]

Turnbuckle,

In your protocol you state "Lysine and Methionine should be repeated as necessary every few hours."

What determines "as necessary?"

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle,

In your protocol you state "Lysine and Methionine should be repeated as necessary every few hours."

What determines "as necessary?"

 

 

If stem cells have been created in sufficient numbers, they may use up those two amino acids, and such malnutrition can result in cell cycle arrest. Long term deficiency of either have well know symptoms, but in this case be attuned to more subtle effects, which for me can involve lethargy during the fusion part, and flu like symptoms during the fission stage. I expect these will vary with individuals, and can probably be avoided altogether simply by taking these amino acids every couple of hours for 4-6 hours. Extended flu* or inflammation like symptoms during the fission stage may also indicate a need to use more powerful senolytics. By extended, I mean for more than one day.

 

*If you actually have a viral infection, I would not use fission at all, as that could accelerate the disease.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 December 2020 - 01:51 PM.

[Fafner55]

There is an ongoing debate as to whether epigenetic changes are causative or correlative to aging. Today's publication by Sinclair et al. in Nature supports the causal role of epigenetics with age.

1. "Scientists Reverse the Aging Clock: Restore Age-Related Vision Loss Through Epigenetic Reprogramming" (2020) https://scitechdaily...-reprogramming/
2. "Reversal of biological clock restores vision in old mice" (2020) https://www.nature.c...586-020-03403-0
3. "Reprogramming to recover youthful epigenetic information and restore vision" (2020) https://www.nature.c...1586-020-2975-4

[Turnbuckle]

 

There is an ongoing debate as to whether epigenetic changes are causative or correlative to aging. Today's publication by Sinclair et al. in Nature supports the causal role of epigenetics with age.

1. "Scientists Reverse the Aging Clock: Restore Age-Related Vision Loss Through Epigenetic Reprogramming" (2020) https://scitechdaily...-reprogramming/
2. "Reversal of biological clock restores vision in old mice" (2020) https://www.nature.c...586-020-03403-0
3. "Reprogramming to recover youthful epigenetic information and restore vision" (2020) https://www.nature.c...1586-020-2975-4

 

 

The degradation of the epigenome definitely causes most of the decline we call aging, and it is due to the decline of stem cell pools and the build-up of senescent cells. In this protocol the epigenome is restored to a more youthful state (on average) by the replacement of those senescent cells with new cells derived from refilled stem cell pools.

[njurkovi]

Turnbuckle,

 

I am 59, so I may be a bit too young to start the protocol; however I suffer from hip OA, and I will be undergoing a bone marrow stem cell treatment in a few months (regenexx).

 

The Dr. who does this says that the success of the procedure greatly depends on the number of available stem cells (he recommends several over-the-counter supplements, and staying at a high altitude for a few days prior the procedure).

 

Do you think incorporating your stem cell protocol would also help?

[stephen_b]

I used magnesium stearate as a stearic acid source, cooked into a pancake. I feel fine, and avoided the uncomfortable feeling I was getting with glycerol monostearate.

 

I'm wondering if the non-magnesium portion of Mg stearate is all stearic acid though (source):

 

Upon ingestion, magnesium stearate is dissolved into magnesium ion and stearic and palmitic acids.

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle,

 

I am 59, so I may be a bit too young to start the protocol; however I suffer from hip OA, and I will be undergoing a bone marrow stem cell treatment in a few months (regenexx).

 

The Dr. who does this says that the success of the procedure greatly depends on the number of available stem cells (he recommends several over-the-counter supplements, and staying at a high altitude for a few days prior the procedure).

 

Do you think incorporating your stem cell protocol would also help?

 

I'd be surprised if it didn't help. It might even make the bone marrow treatment unnecessary. 

 

I used magnesium stearate as a stearic acid source, cooked into a pancake. I feel fine, and avoided the uncomfortable feeling I was getting with glycerol monostearate.

 

I'm wondering if the non-magnesium portion of Mg stearate is all stearic acid though (source):

 

 

Expect the "stearic acid" portion to be 40-60% palmitic acid, as usual. Though I've not seen data on bioavailability, I expect it to be lower than with the triglyceride. If it is very low, then you won't be getting much in the way of fusion.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I am 59, so I may be a bit too young to start the protocol; however I suffer from hip OA, and I will be undergoing a bone marrow stem cell treatment in a few months (regenexx).

 

 

 

 

Another thought: Before you do anything,  look at the supplements you're taking to see if they've created this problem. Senolytics could cause this, and resveratrol in particular.

[njurkovi]

I think the root cause was years of abusing my hip(s) (Tae Kwon Do), even in my fifties, when I knew better.

The OA related supplements are the pretty much the standard anti-inflammatory fare (curcumin,  boswelia, pregnegnolone, avocado unsaponifiables ...) - they seem to have arrested the progress, but I am not really getting better.

 

I did do one regiment of D&Q senolytics (but that was some years ago (quite a bit before I started having OA problems)

 

However, funny you mention resveratrol - it is one of the supplements the doctor recommended to increase stem cells count,

 

Thank you for your comments

[userCK]

@Turnbuckle - I've been trying various protocols after protocols to recover from Post Finasteride Syndrome. Recently, I read an anecdote of somebody recovering by eating lot of broccoli, spinach everyday for few months. So, I added broccoli (400 gram packet) steamed to my diet. Daily morning for breakfast. 

 

But it just occurred to me that Broccoli has sulforaphane - which is part of SC protocol. So, eating sulforaphane/broccoli will interfere with SC and even Mito Fission/Fusion protocol. Won't it?

 

The reason I've so much hope from your SC and Mito protocols are:

1. it is known that Accutane, Finasteride cause a lot of epigenetic changes and you've already reversed 12+ years in your epigenetic age.  My own dna age test showed me to be 43, whereas my chronological age is 37. I strongly believe that I suddenly started to feel 'older' when I started taking Accutane/Finasteride. So, I am thinking reversing DNA age might be the cure I'm looking for!

2. Some people anecdotally recovered by taking a lot of Sodium BHB daily. Which is basically ketones and ketones are also known to reverse DNA methylation. So, that's another reason I think reversing epigenetic aging/methylation is the cure.

 

And this is why I don't want to accidentally sabotage your Mito and SC protocols by eating something that might interfere. I'm thinking on protocol days, I'll stick to a limited number of safe foods:

1. Rice (white),
2. Yogurt (plain),
3. Steak,
4. Chicken (bbq or fried, leg)
5. Eggs (whole, hardboiled)
6. Bread (white)
7. Black coffee/tea
8. Salt/Pepper
9. Lentil soup

• No vegetables/broccoli. No fruits either. No other supplements (I usually take a bunch of vitamins like B Complex/Folate, Zinc, CoQ10, Resvatrol, Bacopa etc).

Should I remove anything from above?

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

@Turnbuckle - I've been trying various protocols after protocols to recover from Post Finasteride Syndrome. Recently, I read an anecdote of somebody recovering by eating lot of broccoli, spinach everyday for few months. So, I added broccoli (400 gram packet) steamed to my diet. Daily morning for breakfast. 

 

But it just occurred to me that Broccoli has sulforaphane - which is part of SC protocol. So, eating sulforaphane/broccoli will interfere with SC and even Mito Fission/Fusion protocol. Won't it?

 

The reason I've so much hope from your SC and Mito protocols are:

1. it is known that Accutane, Finasteride cause a lot of epigenetic changes and you've already reversed 12+ years in your epigenetic age.  

 

My latest result was down 22+ years. See post 1441 above for results, and post 1447 for the latest protocol.

[mister_blue]

@turnbuckle. You prepare your C60oo yourself, don’t you ? Is the product purple as it’s supposed to be, or does it turn brownish/blackish like the ones most (all?) commercial products ship?

[Turnbuckle]

@turnbuckle. You prepare your C60oo yourself, don’t you ? Is the product purple as it’s supposed to be, or does it turn brownish/blackish like the ones most (all?) commercial products ship?

 

Dissolved in olive oil, C60 colors will range from purple to reddish brown to whiskey brown, and will tend to shift toward whiskey with time. In MCT oil, it will stay purple for a long time. Below are pictures from 8 years ago, with olive oil on the left and MCT oil on the right.

Attached Files

•  C60 colors.png   161.8KB   3 downloads

[userCK]

@Turnbuckle - does Ketogenic diet interfere with this protocol? Basically, nearly zero carbs. I'm trying Keto or Carnivore diet soon but doing this protocol is a higher priority. If Keto is not recommended, I was thinking on protocol days I can break keto-state by eating some bread, instant-noodles/ramen or muffin/cake, something with enough carbs to bring me out of keto. What do you say?

 

Some people with PAS/PFS have reported improvements in their symptoms on keto diet. So, I'd like to try it for few months atleast but only if it doesn't interfere with the protocols. 

 

I'd much appreciate your inputs on this.

 

[Turnbuckle]

@Turnbuckle - does Ketogenic diet interfere with this protocol? Basically, nearly zero carbs. I'm trying Keto or Carnivore diet soon but doing this protocol is a higher priority. If Keto is not recommended, I was thinking on protocol days I can break keto-state by eating some bread, instant-noodles/ramen or muffin/cake, something with enough carbs to bring me out of keto. What do you say?

 

Some people with PAS/PFS have reported improvements in their symptoms on keto diet. So, I'd like to try it for few months atleast but only if it doesn't interfere with the protocols. 

 

I'd much appreciate your inputs on this.

 

 

I suggest doing these treatments in the morning on an empty stomach. I don't expect keto to have much impact given the strong drivers to fusion and fission by stearic acid and NAD+ respectively.

[userCK]

I suggest doing these treatments in the morning on an empty stomach. I don't expect keto to have much impact given the strong drivers to fusion and fission by stearic acid and NAD+ respectively.

Thank you. Eventhough I posted in this thread, I meant to ask about both protocols (Mito and SC) with regards to Keto diet. Thank you for answering

[nadaepeu]

Dear Turnbuckle,

 

what is your opinion of using whey protein instead of the proposed amino-acids? I guess this is a cheaper way to get all needed amino-acids. 

 

P.S.

By the way, I think I have read somewhere though that sulphoraphane should not be mixed with any milk products (unfortunately I can't find any reference to this).

[genX]

AGE REVERSAL PROTOCOL update

 

This is an update from post 1175.  The major change is the addition of AAKG. After I added that, I felt there was definite acceleration in age reduction. As measured by Trume, my epigenetic age is now 22.6 years below my chronological age, a doubling of the decline in just 2 months.

 

  

 

Part 1: Stem cell self-renewal

^{......  4}SAM-e — 500 mg

^{......  5}AAKG  — 2-3 g

.......................................................................

@Turnbuckle:  I have a few  questions regarding your protocol:

 

(1)  How do you determine the dose of AAKG?  Also is plain AKG as good as AAKG? 

 

(2) SAM-e is a methyl donor.    AAKG causes demethylation.    How do you reconcile taking both at the same time?  Doesn't one cancel out the other?

 

I would comment that I've taken SAM-e before (tried all type with and without gastrointestincal coating)  and at least after taking it a few days in a row it definitely bothers me.

So, I gave up on taking it. 

[Turnbuckle]

@Turnbuckle:  I have a few  questions regarding your protocol:

 

(1)  How do you determine the dose of AAKG?  Also is plain AKG as good as AAKG? 

 

(2) SAM-e is a methyl donor.    AAKG causes demethylation.    How do you reconcile taking both at the same time?  Doesn't one cancel out the other?

 

I would comment that I've taken SAM-e before (tried all type with and without gastrointestincal coating)  and at least after taking it a few days in a row it definitely bothers me.

So, I gave up on taking it. 

 

Probably any source of AKG will work. I used AAKG because it has other benefits as well. As for methylation vs demethylation, these supplements support different enzyme systems that are active at different times in the cells. AKG promotes demethylases that maintain pluripotency of embryonic cells (in this case, presumably VSELs), while methyltransferases replicate de novo methylation patterns during differentiation, copying the pattern from the de novo programed strand to the new one. (De novo methylation is thought to be produced by yet another set of enzymes.) I'd previously hypothesized that AKG would best be used with fusion/proliferation and methylation supplements with fission/differentiation, but in the trial I took AAKG during both. I have not yet gotten back an epigenetic test from the second vendor, but so far the results seem highly positive -- a doubling of the already impressive epigenetic age reversal in two months. Still, this protocol is experimental and evolving.

 

Also note (1) that fusion may simply bias SC behavior to proliferation, rather than completely determine it; and (2) there are other methyl donors, such as TMG, that can be used.

[JamesPaul]

https://science.scie...nt/369/6502/397

 

Consistent with what Turnbuckle wrote about alpha-ketoglutarate, the above study found that high levels of AKG are required to maintain stemness.  The article also says that differentiation of stem cells requires lowering of the level of AKG.  So after you've topped off your stem cell pool, it's likely best to stop taking AKG.  (Some people might be tempted to take it continuously based on results of certain studies.)

 

Some asked about using forms of AKG other than AAKG.  I wonder if it's a good idea to stay away from calcium AKG based on Turnbuckle's advice to stay away from calcium and magneisum the post below.  Perhaps he could comment.

 

https://www.longecit...dpost&p=856251