9 votes
Posted 02 June 2024 - 11:13 PM
Edited by Kelvin, 02 June 2024 - 11:14 PM.
Posted 11 September 2024 - 05:54 PM
I found a paper from 2018 for a group of Korean researchers that provide evidence that the so-called "liver spots" are due to an accumulation of senescent fibroblasts. If this is true, it seems likely that this protocol ought to eliminate or at least reduce these "liver spots". Have any of you using this protocol have observed this result?
A competing theory is they are due to the accumulation of lysosomal (lipofuscin) aggregates. This is the theory that SENS advocates like Aunrey de Grey advance.
Posted 07 March 2025 - 09:04 PM
Posted 08 March 2025 - 01:15 AM
Posted 12 March 2025 - 04:30 AM
Posted 12 March 2025 - 04:54 AM
Posted 12 March 2025 - 04:57 AM
Posted 12 March 2025 - 10:55 PM
bullGenteel,
Do NOT use the C60 Protocol with 5-HTP or any other SSRI (whether it be pharmaceutical or a natural SSRI like SAM-e) because I found out in 2023 that combining the protocol with them can cause dangerous downregulation of serotonin receptors, which took me the better part of a year to fix (although years of heavy use of supplements, many of which increase serotonin, probably also contributed to the symptoms I had).
I strongly recommend trying 1.5 grams of collagen on an empty stomach 2 hours before a meal with meat to upregulate any downregulated serotonin receptors you may have gotten from using 5-HTP with the protocol. Try experimenting with collagen on an empty stomach 2 times a week to see how it makes you feel and give your body time to adjust as serotonin receptors upregulate (it took me about 1 month to upregulate my serotonin receptors back to normal, and mine were very downregulated).
See details of my experience here -
https://www.longecit...-to-nootropics/
Posted 12 March 2025 - 11:08 PM
Do realize that SAM-e is used in the C60 stem cell/senolytic protocol. I've taken it only as part of this protocol and was not aware that it had SSRI properties.
SSRI's, along with Statins, GLP-1's, and probably 90% of meds dispensed by the medical cartels are compounds that I would never take under any circumstances whatsoever.
Posted 12 March 2025 - 11:22 PM
Regarding cancer, I cannot recommend anything for someone with cancer or at risk of it because C60 has little research into this.
I do use Fisetin sometimes because it tends to leave stem cell pools with healthier stem cells by clearing out weaker (non-cancerous) stem cells. However, excessive use of Fisetin may deplete stem cell pools of even healthy stem cells, so use sparingly.
I use Fisetin occasionally during fission days for the C60 Protocol, and sometimes with the mito protocol to kill any micro tumors or cells that might be weak and on the verge of becoming cancerous. All healthy humans have some small numbers of cancerous cells at any given time somewhere in their body but these are usually killed or contained by the immune system. It is when the immune system no longer contains a group of cells that they turn into larger cancers that require treatment. By using anti-cancer properties of some supplements I hope to destroy any micro-tumors I might have before they become larger, and harder to treat.
However, I cannot promise anyone else what I do will work for them.
For the mito protocol I sometimes use 3 grams Fisetin, 1 gram Nicotinamide (to boost NAD+ which benefits the senolytic power of Fisetin), 500 mgs AKG (Double Wood brand to remove epigenetic mutations), and 1 gram Quercetin on fission days to kill any micro-tumors followed by a fusion day using Sulforaphane (Thorne brand which is, IMO, the best sulforaphane product on the market) with a spoonful of brown mustard to activate the sulforaphane because Sulforaphane has potent anti-cancer and anti-cancer stem cell powers.
I have also added, outside the mito and C60 protocols, tocotrienols (without any tocopherols because they interfere with the effect of tocotrienols). I take 400 mgs of Swanson brand tocotrienols 2 times a week because the research on tocotrienols having potent cancer suppressing effects is impressive -
https://iubmb.online....1002/biof.1873
The theory I was exploring was related to C60s impact on UCP2 pores and how UCP2 relates to cancer.
For all cells, healthy and otherwise, UCP2 is needed to (among many other things) suppress DNA damage from oxidative stress.
Early in tumorgenesis, UCP2 pores are often suppressed to increase genomic instability and vulnerability to oxidative stressors (estrogen is a UCP2 suppressor and this property of estrogen may partially explain its relationship to breast cancer). This is part of the reason C60 should probably not be used constantly because it would leave healthy cells vulnerable to oxidative damage.
HOWEVER, once a tumor becomes more advanced it actually increases its UCP2 expression to levels much higher than for normal cells. The reason cancer cells require higher expression of UCP2 is because their rapid cellular activity generates higher than normal oxidative stressors than normal and UCP2 is needed to suppress oxidative damage.
The suppression of oxidative stressors by UCP2 is what gives cancer cells (as well as healthy stem cells) the quality of cellular immortality.
Without this suppression of oxidative damage from UCP2 cancer cells would probably age and die faster than healthy cells do.
This would explain the paradox of why some antioxidants like Astaxanthin seem to help prevent cancer in healthy people, but may benefit the cancer if one becomes established (although there are a number of antioxidants with anti-cancer abilities such as Omega 3, tocotrienols, grape seed extract, etc).
Edited by Kelvin, 12 March 2025 - 11:56 PM.
Posted 12 March 2025 - 11:40 PM
Do realize that SAM-e is used in the C60 stem cell/senolytic protocol. I've taken it only as part of this protocol and was not aware that it had SSRI properties.
SSRI's, along with Statins, GLP-1's, and probably 90% of meds dispensed by the medical cartels are compounds that I would never take under any circumstances whatsoever.
Turnbuckle has not published an update to his C60 Protocol, so the use of SAM-e doesn't include the information about my experience.
In general, SSRIs are only useful for someone who has some kind of physical inability to create serotonin in the gut (where 90% of serotonin is stored) or if someone's dopamine receptors are excessively downregulated from drug use (SSRIs and/or increases in serotonin levels suppress dopamine function which, in turn, will upregulate dopamine receptors if they are downregulated from drug use).
However, the longevity community should be aware that many supplements they take such as Vitamin D, ginger, Curcumin/Turmeric, and many others, can also cause a gradual downregulation of serotonin receptors by either acting as a natural SSRI (SAM-e, or Curcumin/Turmeric which is also an norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) or by increasing the overall level of serotonin production.
This greater contact between serotonin and its serotonin receptors causes the serotonin receptors to downregulate themselves from excessive contact with its neurotransmitter.
Even if mildly downregulated, decreased serotonin receptor expression causes numerous, undesirable, mental side effects such as loss of creativity, mild anhedonia, and other problems I described in my article.
And this can all be caused by excessive supplement use, not by using any pharmaceutical SSRI garbage at all.
By contrast, the number of supplements that can reduce serotonin (thus gaining the many positive effects of serotonin receptor up regulation) are few.
Basically I only found Shilajit and taking 1.5 -2 grams of collagen on an empty stomach 2 hours before a meal works to reduce serotonin and upregulate its receptors. I tried lysine, but this was ineffective because it only blocked one specific type of serotonin receptor. The best way to upregulate serotonin receptors across the board was to reduce overall serotonin levels across the entire body with Shilajit or collagen (I recommend collagen because it is better studied and is therefore less likely to have unexpected side effects).
So I recommend everyone in the longevity community who takes a lot of supplements (even if you have never taken a pharmaceutical SSRI) to also occasionally take collagen on an empty stomach to cut serotonin and upregulate serotonin receptors because natural supplements can also have a similar effect as Prozac over time.
For mental health issues, the current pharmaceutical strategy has failed because the mentally ill typically do not suffer from a lack of neurotranmitters (in the depressed, serotonin levels are usually not statistically different from control groups).
The problem actually lies in a type of RECEPTOR that is downregulated, because it is the neuroreceptors that tell the brain and body how to interact with the neurotransmitters. The receptors even include auto-receptors that tell the body when to reduce a specific type of neurotransmitter.
The receptors guide proper transmitter interaction across the entire body. For example, serotonin receptors influence blood pressure and heart rate and their downregulation is linked to higher blood pressure.
The current mental health strategy of simply increasing neurotransmitter-receptor contact with some kind of reuptake inhibitor (usually an SSRI because psychiatric drugs that stimulated dopamine caused euphoria and hallucinations in testing) is like jamming a key into a lock that doesn't fit it.
The path to mental health is much more likely to be found through increasing mental health performance by increasing the number of neural RECEPTORS which can then smooth out proper transmitter-receptor interactions in the brain and body, instead of just stupidly increasing neurotransmitters that cannot properly interact with the brain and body if there are not enough neuroreceptors to guide them.
https://www.longecit...-to-nootropics/
Edited by Kelvin, 12 March 2025 - 11:47 PM.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 12:18 AM
Oh, I forgot!
The other substance that can directly reduce serotonin levels (and therefore upregulate serotonin receptors) is ALCOHOL!!!
Although I find collagen on an empty stomach is more effective at improving mood and creativity than alcohol because booze also down regulates GABA receptors, whereas collagen on an empty stomach just reduces serotonin and affects no other neurotransmitter system. This makes the serotonin reducing impact of collagen "purer" by only affecting serotonin levels than alcohol because the latter affects multiple types of neurotransmitters and receptors at the same time.
Nevertheless, because alcohol reduces serotonin that means (for you parents out there) that, yes, your college age kid is more likely to be psychologically healthy if they have scotch on the rocks on weekends than they are from taking prescription SSRIs (assuming your kids only drink one or two days a week to allow their neurotransmitter-receptor system to rebalance on sober days, and assuming they don't drink to the point of alcohol poisoning).
Speaking for myself, I drink only on Fridays and Saturdays to get the serotonin reducing benefits (among other benefits) of alcohol and usually am sober the other 5 days to let the rest of system rebalance (besides, I tend to get tired and lethargic if I drink more than 3 days in a row).
Edited by Kelvin, 13 March 2025 - 12:25 AM.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 02:09 AM
bullGenteel,
Do NOT use the C60 Protocol with 5-HTP or any other SSRI (whether it be pharmaceutical or a natural SSRI like SAM-e) because I found out in 2023 that combining the protocol with them can cause dangerous downregulation of serotonin receptors, which took me the better part of a year to fix (although years of heavy use of supplements, many of which increase serotonin, probably also contributed to the symptoms I had).
I strongly recommend trying 1.5 grams of collagen on an empty stomach 2 hours before a meal with meat to upregulate any downregulated serotonin receptors you may have gotten from using 5-HTP with the protocol. Try experimenting with collagen on an empty stomach 2 times a week to see how it makes you feel and give your body time to adjust as serotonin receptors upregulate (it took me about 1 month to upregulate my serotonin receptors back to normal, and mine were very downregulated).
See details of my experience here -
So there can be short term changes to receptors but I usually see that as sensitization / desensitization and that sort of thing seems to resolve quickly as long as there isn't physical damage.
More permanent changes, as in to the number of receptors, requires much longer. Just for example it generally takes a week or two of continuous use to become physically dependant on heroin, alcohol or nicotine even though they are highly addictive.
I cannot seem to find anything indicating that collagen effects gut 5HT levels or that gut 5HT levels influence brain 5HT receptors (or those in the heart) i.e. a serum increase of 5HT in blood and cerebral fluid instead of just inside the gut (where it would then get deactivated by the liver before spreading). As I understand it, metabolizing tryptophan/5HTP is how 5HT is spread through the body and brain.
There does seem to be good evidence that collagen does improve the gut lining by tightening the intercellular matrix:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC9198822/
Do you have any study links?
Posted 13 March 2025 - 02:22 AM
Turnbuckle was never promoting the excessive use of C60. What he was saying 'the less the better'.
Currently it is only way to promote the symmetrical division of stem cells.
Not entirely true.
It seems about a 3 day full fast (i.e. clear liquids) causes autophagy to scavenge protein, including stem cell and mitochondrial autophagy of defective cells/organelles.
Upon eating (make the first couple healthy meals), the good stem cells are then stimulated to reproduce and replenish which results in a stem cell refresh.
(Dang buddhists, clean living, vegetarian, intermittent fasting (no food after 12), long fasting, exercise, meditation, they check a lot of anti aging boxes.)
Possible mechanisms:
https://link.springe...778-021-00186-6
Posted 13 March 2025 - 09:24 PM
So there can be short term changes to receptors but I usually see that as sensitization / desensitization and that sort of thing seems to resolve quickly as long as there isn't physical damage.
More permanent changes, as in to the number of receptors, requires much longer. Just for example it generally takes a week or two of continuous use to become physically dependant on heroin, alcohol or nicotine even though they are highly addictive.
I cannot seem to find anything indicating that collagen effects gut 5HT levels or that gut 5HT levels influence brain 5HT receptors (or those in the heart) i.e. a serum increase of 5HT in blood and cerebral fluid instead of just inside the gut (where it would then get deactivated by the liver before spreading). As I understand it, metabolizing tryptophan/5HTP is how 5HT is spread through the body and brain.
There does seem to be good evidence that collagen does improve the gut lining by tightening the intercellular matrix:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC9198822/
Do you have any study links?
While it is true that receptors can recover up to a point, severe bodily injury to organs often precedes the destruction of the receptors to a point where they can no longer upregulate.
For example, the excessive stimulation of the GABAergic system from alcoholism results in downregulated GABA receptors. Although the GABA receptors can usually be upregulated by weaning an alcoholic off of booze, the damage to the liver may be irreversible even if GABA receptors eventually upregulate.
In the case of excess serotonin, damage to internal organs like the heart, kidneys, and liver may also be permanent, or be fatal, even if the serotonin receptors can upregulate when excess serotonin is removed from the system.
Fortunately, in 2023 I was able to come up with a 7 step protocol to reverse 100% of the health problems I had from using 5-HTP, but others might not be so lucky if they include it in the C60 Protocol, or if they use prescription SSRIs or take an excessive amount of natural SSRIs as supplements.
Plenty of permanent organ damage, possibly lethal damage, can occur from excess serotonin before the receptors would lose the ability to upregulate, so I would strongly encourage anyone using 5-HTP or SAM-e with the protocol to stop immediately and try lowering their serotonin levels.
This study shows collagen competes with tryptophan, a precursor to serotonin.
Pharmacokinetics of acute tryptophan depletion using a gelatin-based protein in male and female Wistar rats
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/18683016/
The essential amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. By depleting the body of tryptophan, brain tryptophan and serotonin levels are temporarily reduced. In this paper, several experiments are described in which dose and treatment effects of acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) using a gelatin-based protein-carbohydrate mixture were studied in male and female Wistar rats. Two or three doses of tryptophan depleting mixture resulted in 65-70% depletion after 2-4 h in males. ATD effects were similar in females, although females may return to baseline levels faster. Treatment effects after four consecutive days of ATD were similar to the effects of 1 day of treatment. Object recognition memory was impaired 2, 4, and 6 h after the first of two doses of ATD, suggesting that the central effects occurred rapidly and continued at least 6 h, in spite of decreasing treatment effects on plasma tryptophan levels at that time point. The method of acute tryptophan depletion described here can be used to study the relationship between serotonin and behaviour in both male and female rats.
Edited by Kelvin, 13 March 2025 - 09:47 PM.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 09:34 PM
That is so not how alcohol actually effects the body.
Nor is there any further doubt that alcohol is pro-inflammatory and has at best no physical benefit and many detriments.
All of the three major forms of alcohol - grain based liquor, wine, and beer - show cardiovascular health benefits from moderate drinking (1 to 3 drinks per day) relative to teetotalers, although only wine consumption shows an improvement in all cause mortality relative to teetotaling
Besides, even if teetotaling does increase lifespan relative to moderate drinking the increase is statistically too small to justify giving up moderate alcohol consumption - it is not as if 85 year old teetotalers have the appearance and vitality of 45 year olds because they refuse booze compared to 85 year old moderate drinkers.
At best, teetotalers are only getting 1 extra year of life in old age relative to moderate drinkers, and that final year is rarely physically pleasant to go through.
https://www.longecit...lement-regimen/
Provinols: the only authentic red wine concentrate, which I would take if I could find if I could find the darned stuff. Unlike the shaky-to-begin-with-and-now-disproven resveratrol hype, there is a quite solid body of epidemiological evidence of an association between a couple of glasses of wine a day and lower risk of a range of adverse outcomes, including total mortality and dementia. The epidemiology clearly indicates a U-shaped dose-response curve for alcohol consumption and heart disease, with the best outcomes associated with 1-3 drinks/d, and this extends to total mortality in meta-analysis(19); but when broken down into type of alcohol consumed, only wine lowers total mortality and dementia: beer or spirits lower CVD mortality, with no effect on total. (No, despite the use of these findings as a justification for resveratrol supplements, there is no epidemiological evidence favoring red over white).
https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext
During the first 30 min after acute ethanol consumption by three fasting normal male volunteers, no increase in circulating tryptophan availability to the brain occurred. On the contrary, a small decrease was observed, which became stronger subsequently. We conclude from this preliminary study that brain serotonin levels are not increased after alcohol intake by normal subjects and that, consequently, this indolylamine is unlikely to mediate the euphoric effects of alcohol.
...
Previously, we showed (Badawy et al., 1995) that acute ethanol consumption by human volunteers actually decreases circulating Trp concentration and availability to the brain, thus decreasing, rather than increasing, brain serotonin synthesis, over a 3-h period.
Edited by Kelvin, 13 March 2025 - 09:41 PM.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 10:48 PM
While it is true that receptors can recover up to a point, severe bodily injury to organs often precedes the destruction of the receptors to a point where they can no longer upregulate.
For example, the excessive stimulation of the GABAergic system from alcoholism results in downregulated GABA receptors. Although the GABA receptors can usually be upregulated by weaning an alcoholic off of booze, the damage to the liver may be irreversible even if GABA receptors eventually upregulate.
In the case of excess serotonin, damage to internal organs like the heart, kidneys, and liver may also be permanent, or be fatal, even if the serotonin receptors can upregulate when excess serotonin is removed from the system.
Fortunately, in 2023 I was able to come up with a 7 step protocol to reverse 100% of the health problems I had from using 5-HTP, but others might not be so lucky if they include it in the C60 Protocol, or if they use prescription SSRIs or take an excessive amount of natural SSRIs as supplements.
Plenty of permanent organ damage, possibly lethal damage, can occur from excess serotonin before the receptors would lose the ability to upregulate, so I would strongly encourage anyone using 5-HTP or SAM-e with the protocol to stop immediately and try lowering their serotonin levels.
This study shows collagen competes with tryptophan, a precursor to serotonin.
Pharmacokinetics of acute tryptophan depletion using a gelatin-based protein in male and female Wistar rats
https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/18683016/
The essential amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. By depleting the body of tryptophan, brain tryptophan and serotonin levels are temporarily reduced. In this paper, several experiments are described in which dose and treatment effects of acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) using a gelatin-based protein-carbohydrate mixture were studied in male and female Wistar rats. Two or three doses of tryptophan depleting mixture resulted in 65-70% depletion after 2-4 h in males. ATD effects were similar in females, although females may return to baseline levels faster. Treatment effects after four consecutive days of ATD were similar to the effects of 1 day of treatment. Object recognition memory was impaired 2, 4, and 6 h after the first of two doses of ATD, suggesting that the central effects occurred rapidly and continued at least 6 h, in spite of decreasing treatment effects on plasma tryptophan levels at that time point. The method of acute tryptophan depletion described here can be used to study the relationship between serotonin and behaviour in both male and female rats.
Here is the study not behind a pay wall:
https://link.springe...-008-0160-4.pdf
This paper doesn't really seem to support what you are claiming. They are using competing amino acids to block absorption of tryptophan at the BBB which goal of depleting brain 5HT. There aren't up/down regulating claims.
Acute Tryptophan Depletion (ATD): ATD is a method used to temporarily lower brain serotonin levels by depleting [or in this case blocking] the brain of tryptophan... Repeated ATD treatment over consecutive days does not significantly alter the depletion effects compared to a single day of treatment.
In particular it doesn't seem to cause any long term damage.
I've no doubt you had difficulties. I'm just dubious about the explanation.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 11:00 PM
All of the three major forms of alcohol - grain based liquor, wine, and beer - show cardiovascular health benefits from moderate drinking (1 to 3 drinks per day) relative to teetotalers, although only wine consumption shows an improvement in all cause mortality relative to teetotaling
...
Its all just one thing - ethanol.
I realize you're a binge drinker and you'll never give up your addiction but there is zero health benefit and it degrades your brain, heart, liver, kidneys, pancreas... plus cancer for the win.
Alcohol prematurely ages you and causes an increase in inflammation markers.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 11:26 PM
Here is the study not behind a pay wall:
https://link.springe...-008-0160-4.pdf
This paper doesn't really seem to support what you are claiming. They are using competing amino acids to block absorption of tryptophan at the BBB which goal of depleting brain 5HT. There aren't up/down regulating claims.
Acute Tryptophan Depletion (ATD): ATD is a method used to temporarily lower brain serotonin levels by depleting [or in this case blocking] the brain of tryptophan... Repeated ATD treatment over consecutive days does not significantly alter the depletion effects compared to a single day of treatment.
In particular it doesn't seem to cause any long term damage.
I've no doubt you had difficulties. I'm just dubious about the explanation.
I thought you said you hadn't found any research to support collagen reducing serotonin levels, even temporarily?
Obviously you did not research thoroughly enough...
In any event, neither Shilajit nor alcohol work by permanently deplete serotonin levels in the brain, and they do not need to do so in order to upregulate serotonin RECEPTORS.
Collagen, Shilajit, and alcohol all upregulate serotonin receptors by temporarily depriving the receptors of serotonin levels.
Even a temporary reduction gradually increases receptor expression.
Anyone can test this theory by taking collagen on an empty stomach and seeing if they respond more emotionally to music they enjoy because the up regulation of serotonin receptors enhances dopamine function by diverting serotonin away from suppressing dopamanergic function (unless one's serotonin receptors are already unregulated, in which case neither collagen, nor Shilajit, nor alcohol will enhance the effect because their serotonin receptors are at already optimal levels).
But unless one's serotonin receptors are optimal, the effect of collagen on an empty stomach will be obvious.
I noticed that after using shilajit to upregulate serotonin receptors that I was still sensitive to anything that increased serotonin (even Vitamin D).
When I took 1.5 grams of collagen once or twice a month I noticed the same mood enhancement effect of shilajit.
The temporary depletion of tryptophan is all that is needed to upregulate serotonin receptors, and anyone can try collagen to prove it to themselves.
Edited by Kelvin, 13 March 2025 - 11:29 PM.
Posted 13 March 2025 - 11:29 PM
Its all just one thing - ethanol.
I realize you're a binge drinker and you'll never give up your addiction but there is zero health benefit and it degrades your brain, heart, liver, kidneys, pancreas... plus cancer for the win.
Alcohol prematurely ages you and causes an increase in inflammation markers.
I wasn't aware drinking only on Fridays and Saturdays constituted "addiction".
It seems to me that if I were "addicted" I would be drinking at least 5 out of 7 days a week, but I will be generous to you and assume math and logic are not your strong points...
In any event, how much LONGER on average do teetotalers extend their life relative to moderate drinkers (in the most alcohol-negative studies)..........???
Edited by Kelvin, 13 March 2025 - 11:30 PM.
Posted 14 March 2025 - 12:07 AM
I wasn't aware drinking only on Fridays and Saturdays constituted "addiction".
It seems to me that if I were "addicted" I would be drinking at least 5 out of 7 days a week, but I will be generous to you and assume math and logic are not your strong points...
In any event, how much LONGER on average do teetotalers extend their life relative to moderate drinkers (in the most alcohol-negative studies)..........???
Kelvin - it's called trolling! Don't take the bait.
Although - I do agree that alcohol's negative effects FAR outweigh any benefits. I'm not saving there are no benefits, but alcohol is very bad for you in so many ways IMO.
Posted 14 March 2025 - 12:34 AM
Kelvin - it's called trolling! Don't take the bait.
Although - I do agree that alcohol's negative effects FAR outweigh any benefits. I'm not saving there are no benefits, but alcohol is very bad for you in so many ways IMO.
It's only fair to troll back.
I swear, some people here only comment to s*^&post in order to pretend they are far smarter than they are......
Edited by Kelvin, 14 March 2025 - 12:37 AM.
Posted 14 March 2025 - 11:54 PM
It's only fair to troll back.
I swear, some people here only comment to s*^&post in order to pretend they are far smarter than they are......
That's not entirely inaccurate
Ok let's get back on topic
Edited by Repack Racing, 14 March 2025 - 11:54 PM.
Posted 16 March 2025 - 03:20 AM
I thought you said you hadn't found any research to support collagen reducing serotonin levels, even temporarily?
Obviously you did not research thoroughly enough...
In any event, neither Shilajit nor alcohol work by permanently deplete serotonin levels in the brain, and they do not need to do so in order to upregulate serotonin RECEPTORS.
Collagen, Shilajit, and alcohol all upregulate serotonin receptors by temporarily depriving the receptors of serotonin levels.
Even a temporary reduction gradually increases receptor expression.
Anyone can test this theory by taking collagen on an empty stomach and seeing if they respond more emotionally to music they enjoy because the up regulation of serotonin receptors enhances dopamine function by diverting serotonin away from suppressing dopamanergic function (unless one's serotonin receptors are already unregulated, in which case neither collagen, nor Shilajit, nor alcohol will enhance the effect because their serotonin receptors are at already optimal levels).
But unless one's serotonin receptors are optimal, the effect of collagen on an empty stomach will be obvious.
I noticed that after using shilajit to upregulate serotonin receptors that I was still sensitive to anything that increased serotonin (even Vitamin D).
When I took 1.5 grams of collagen once or twice a month I noticed the same mood enhancement effect of shilajit.
The temporary depletion of tryptophan is all that is needed to upregulate serotonin receptors, and anyone can try collagen to prove it to themselves.
I didn't find anything first pass, which is unsurprising given the paper. Once I had the abstract however, it was trivial to find the whole paper.
None of your conclusions are supported by the paper.
What is true is that if one follows their protocol, one can temporarily reduce the free tryptophan available to the brain via competition with preferred amino acids, with somewhat deleterious effects. There is no mention of down or up regulation of the receptors. It is a lack of tryptophan for synthesis, not changes to the receptors.
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