2562 replies to this topic

[Kelvin]

I didn't find anything first pass, which is unsurprising given the paper. Once I had the abstract however, it was trivial to find the whole paper.

 

None of your conclusions are supported by the paper. 

What is true is that if one follows their protocol, one can temporarily reduce the free tryptophan available to the brain via competition with preferred amino acids, with somewhat deleterious effects. There is no mention of down or up regulation of the receptors. It is a lack of tryptophan for synthesis, not changes to the receptors.

 

As I said multiple times, you idiot, cutting contact between neurotransmitters and their receptors causes their receptors to upregulate across the brain and body.

 

Collagen's reduction in tryptophan therefore must reduce serotonin and upregulate serotonin receptors by reducing contact between serotonin and serotonin receptors, just as shilajit upregulates serotonin by reducing serotonin.  Anyone who has noticed a cognitive boost from shilajit will notice the same cognitive benefits from taking collagen on an empty stomach 2 hours before a meal (collagen will not have this effect if you take collagen after a meal).

 

This is the exact same principle that causes beta blockers like propranolol to upregulate beta receptors:  Beta blockers prevent the contact of adrenaline with beta receptors, which in turn causes the beta receptors to upregulate.

Edited by Kelvin, 16 March 2025 - 08:55 PM.

[bullGenteel]

This is my first time joining this website after lurking a few years. I don't really have the capability to debate any science. I just experiment with some of the protocols. I experimented a little with collagen, based off Kelvin's therory. So maybe I will post my experience sometime, on your thread:Enhancing-creativity-for-artists...to see if I might get some ideas or maybe understand things a bit better.

[bullGenteel]

I appreciate the feedback I got from my inquiry into cancer concerns. I have a feeling I should have been using some cancer safeguard measures while using the c60. It may or may not be of much help now. Sounds like that's what Kelvin you did. I'd have to reread your comments.

I should have got some direction before starting out. I got a little carried away. I took about atleast 75mg of c60 spread over about 4 months. I took anywhere from roughly 9mg to 15mg over 3 to 5 days monthly for the 4 months. How bad do you think that is? I am going to do a yearly check up with my doctor. Not that that would catch some potential
problems that may be set in motion.

Reviewing this site I think I took more than 3 times the amount that other users have experimented with in same given time period.

[DyeA]

Would anyone be amenable to posting a summary of Turnbuckles protocol or pointing me to a spefic? The protocol is listed on the first page but Turnbuckle has replied numerous times and adjusted things possibly and I'm unsure that I've seen all important posts from him and others since the thread is over 85 pages. I tried to export all the pages and feed them them to chatgpt but the ai had a hard time with it. I'd love to try it but since the amount of info here is so large I don't trust myself to absorb every detail and its likely important that I do things correctly. Thanks in advance!

[DJSwarm]

As I said multiple times, you idiot, cutting contact between neurotransmitters and their receptors causes their receptors to upregulate across the brain and body.

 

Collagen's reduction in tryptophan therefore must reduce serotonin and upregulate serotonin receptors by reducing contact between serotonin and serotonin receptors, just as shilajit upregulates serotonin by reducing serotonin.  Anyone who has noticed a cognitive boost from shilajit will notice the same cognitive benefits from taking collagen on an empty stomach 2 hours before a meal (collagen will not have this effect if you take collagen after a meal).

 

This is the exact same principle that causes beta blockers like propranolol to upregulate beta receptors:  Beta blockers prevent the contact of adrenaline with beta receptors, which in turn causes the beta receptors to upregulate.

 

Errors & Misconceptions:

1. Misunderstanding of Neurotransmitter-Receptor Regulation:

   • While receptor upregulation can occur in response to reduced neurotransmitter availability or blocked receptor activity, this does not happen uniformly "across the brain and body."
   • Different receptor systems regulate themselves differently. Some receptors upregulate when their ligand is reduced, while others may downregulate or behave in a more complex manner.

2. Collagen & Serotonin Link is Misrepresented:

   • Collagen does not significantly reduce serotonin levels.
   • Collagen is rich in glycine, proline, and hydroxyproline but low in tryptophan (a precursor to serotonin). However, dietary intake of collagen does not cause significant depletion of tryptophan in a way that would meaningfully impact serotonin production in the brain.
   • The claim that collagen "reduces serotonin and upregulates serotonin receptors" is not supported by scientific evidence.

3. Incorrect Comparison to Shilajit:

   • Shilajit is a complex natural substance containing fulvic acid and other compounds.
   • While some studies suggest it may have neuroprotective effects, there is no robust evidence that shilajit upregulates serotonin receptors by reducing serotonin levels.

4. Misinterpretation of Beta-Blocker Mechanism:

   • Beta-blockers like propranolol do not "upregulate beta receptors" as a universal principle.
   • While long-term beta-blocker use can lead to beta-receptor upregulation, this is a compensatory mechanism specific to adrenergic signaling—not a general rule for all neurotransmitter systems.
   • The regulation of serotonin receptors is not analogous to beta-adrenergic receptors in this way.

Corrected Information:

• Neurotransmitter Receptor Regulation:

  • Neurotransmitter receptors can upregulate or downregulate based on chronic changes in neurotransmitter availability, but this is system-specific and does not occur uniformly across the body.

• Collagen and Serotonin:

  • Collagen does not significantly reduce serotonin levels in a way that would cause receptor upregulation.
  • The body maintains tryptophan homeostasis through multiple pathways, and minor variations in dietary tryptophan intake do not necessarily lead to serotonin depletion.

• Shilajit and Cognitive Effects:

  • Some studies suggest shilajit may support cognitive function due to its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties, but its effects on serotonin receptor regulation remain speculative and are not well-documented.

• Beta-Blockers vs. Serotonin Regulation:

  • Beta-blockers may lead to beta-receptor upregulation over time, but this does not mean that serotonin receptors behave the same way.
  • Serotonin receptor regulation is highly complex, varying by receptor subtype, brain region, and physiological conditions.

[Garrick Peschke]

Question-

Does anyone foresee effects on Reproduction?

Context- Extremely healthy 45 year old woman. Not yet metapause, looking to do IVF.
Trying to do whatever to mitigate the 'geriatric' nature of the pregnancy.

The later stages are dominated by dna copying dynamics- 
https://www.cell.com...8674(22)00780-2

 

Which get really bad, by around 40.

If this marketing copy is to be believed-
https://www.ingenes....vices/ivf-more/
Part of that is a mitochondrial energy effect (Though they throw a whole host of things at it).
So the mito/pqq protocols seem relevant.
But I figure I should ask others, who know more. 

Would also love to know if the c60 protocols might cause harm (I don't SEE a direct benifit, but I'm open to correction).
Keep in mind, this is in the context of age 45, where IVF people give the normal odds of success at around 2%.

(We think we've got about a 1/3 shot, due to her extreme health helping out at earlier stages).
And will be looking to implement some of this on round 2, as the final hail marry.

Edited by Garrick Peschke, 22 March 2025 - 08:08 PM.

[Kelvin]

Question-

Does anyone foresee effects on Reproduction?

Context- Extremely healthy 45 year old woman. Not yet metapause, looking to do IVF.
Trying to do whatever to mitigate the 'geriatric' nature of the pregnancy.
 

 

 

For women I would strongly recommend NOT doing the C60 Protocol until AFTER they are done having children because there is no way to know if the protocol might harm the quality of ovum and/or harm the development of any fetus during pregnancy.

 

The mito protocol (the earlier version with nicotinamide, AKG, PQQ on fission days followed by a fusion day, and maybe an occasional use of fisetin on fission days to kill senescent cells) would be less problematic, and might even be beneficial for getting rid of mitochondrial and epigenetic damage across the body in addition to killing senescent cells.  But even then I would, if I were a woman, do the mito protocol at least 6 months before trying to get pregnant just to avoid the risk of the mito protocol negatively affecting the progress of the pregnancy.

Edited by Kelvin, 22 March 2025 - 11:38 PM.

[Kelvin]

It would be interesting to hear more experiences from women who have tried the C60 Protocol since most of those who have tried and comment here about the protocol seem to be men.

Edited by Kelvin, 22 March 2025 - 11:56 PM.

[Garrick Peschke]

For women I would strongly recommend NOT doing the C60 Protocol until AFTER they are done having children because there is no way to know if the protocol might harm the quality of ovum and/or harm the development of any fetus during pregnancy.

 

The mito protocol (the earlier version with nicotinamide, AKG, PQQ on fission days followed by a fusion day, and maybe an occasional use of fisetin on fission days to kill senescent cells) would be less problematic, and might even be beneficial for getting rid of mitochondrial and epigenetic damage across the body in addition to killing senescent cells.  But even then I would, if I were a woman, do the mito protocol at least 6 months before trying to get pregnant just to avoid the risk of the mito protocol negatively affecting the progress of the pregnancy.

Thanks, Kevin.

I think your advice is spot on for anyone 40 and under.

I'm glad you posted, so some 30 year old who later reads this won't make a dumb move. 
 

Still, I don't think it's well targeted as a response to my question. 

By age 45 the risk/reward profile has substantially changed.

[Kelvin]

 

Still, I don't think it's well targeted as a response to my question. 

By age 45 the risk/reward profile has substantially changed.

 

Wait until after you complete your IVF treatments and have a child to use the C60 protocol.

 

In general, women should wait until they are sure they won't have more children to try the C60 Protocol, regardless of how young or old they are when they are sure they won't have any more.

[Repack Racing]

Turnbuckle's latest publication: https://www.linkedin...ae9pE6/J7uF0g==

[Garrick Peschke]

Thank you Kevin, for your input.
This is a subject where there are a lot of protective instincts.

 Let me be a little more explicit as to why those instincts are inappropriate.

 

Age 45 means we are past the functional pregnancy range.

Doctors are giving us a 2% change of pregnancy, if we pay $20k for IVF.

The hail marry is worth it. We are going to do so. 

As part of that hail marry, we are looking to try experimental things. Which you normally shouldn't- 

Logic goes-

If experimenting with things have:
a 10% chance of elimination of the ability to get preggers,

a 10% chance of improving things,

a 80% chance of doing basically nothing,

At age 30 it's a terrible idea, but in our situation is completely worth it. 

Could we get back on track, towards answering my questions? I'm not interested in 'authority' based medical advice.

I'm after what's mechanically understood relative to the subject. I'm looking to estimate those percentages.
 

Kevin, I am currently reading your comments as coming from a protective place, as they are light on reasoning.

If you'd like to fill them out with actual argumentation, I'd appreciate it.

Regardless, it's clear you are speaking from noble instincts. Just don't let that cloud your judgement.

Edited by Garrick Peschke, Yesterday, 04:38 AM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re: post 2562

 

Garrick, you might benefit from constructing a weighted decision matrix in a spreadsheet.You can find example spreadsheet templates online or just make your own. There is a lot of subjectivity in assigning weights, but you can easily change weights over ranges that you consider to be reasonable.