98 replies to this topic

[Daniel Cooper]

I think there is good reason for people to be excited here, it certainly makes things way more simple diy bypassing the stability issues and wondering how much trehalose is even still liposomed.

 

 

You're ignoring the fact that when you are done with your DIY concoction you won't have to worry about stability since you'll have no idea what you actually managed to encapsulate in the first place.  Could be 90%, could be 2%.  Unless you have some real way to test it what you ended up with is nothing but an assumption on your part.

 

 

 

[granmasutensil]

You're ignoring the fact that when you are done with your DIY concoction you won't have to worry about stability since you'll have no idea what you actually managed to encapsulate in the first place.  Could be 90%, could be 2%.  Unless you have some real way to test it what you ended up with is nothing but an assumption on your part.

 

I think that argument is more important in the reverse solely due to stability. After it's made and shipped with the heat or freezing now that its going to be winter, then shelf stability at home (especially if you plan to take it more than a month) and increased degradation once the container is opened how much trehalose is actually still liposomed 2% or 90% who knows, you can't test that either.

 

I think it's pretty easy in this context to tell that a large amount diy would be liposomed if like I said earlier the amount of solution to lecithin is kept low. If it's dissolved/emulsified it's liposomed, that's why I said it's not rocket science it's very easy by way of ultrasonic. The issue about amount is when there is much more solution in the ratio. Ultrasonic isn't widely used because it's crude but we just want it to survive digestion right? I don't remember anything said about specific liposome sizing needed.

[Daniel Cooper]

You should make some and tell us how it goes.

 

 

 

[granmasutensil]

You should make some and tell us how it goes.

 

That's the plan, it's on the way! I will for sure give an update of how it goes. The big thing is how much can be dissolved in water for the dosage.

[Kevinsan]

The difference between home made and professional made Lipo C is noticeable. Homemade doesn't work. Does work with whey protein and olecic acid to make a cancer med. Unfolds the whey protein perfectly. For Lipo C and others you need a better sonicator or quality liposomes or a professional chemist. Since we have a professional chemist who specializes in liposomal consumer products lets get the ball moving. I think we can get a 10 liter order with the Longnauts here. We are in for three liters here. Just tell the Dutch to cost it with shipping and put up the pay link on the site. I have contacted manufacturers in the US but the minimums are 500 units. They have looked at it from a legal perspective and see the trehalose as being legal in the USA. All FDA approved components.

[Daniel Cooper]

Any recent activity on this?

 

 

 

[sphere]

The difference between home made and professional made Lipo C is noticeable. Homemade doesn't work. Does work with whey protein and olecic acid to make a cancer med. Unfolds the whey protein perfectly. For Lipo C and others you need a better sonicator or quality liposomes or a professional chemist. Since we have a professional chemist who specializes in liposomal consumer products lets get the ball moving. I think we can get a 10 liter order with the Longnauts here. We are in for three liters here. Just tell the Dutch to cost it with shipping and put up the pay link on the site. I have contacted manufacturers in the US but the minimums are 500 units. They have looked at it from a legal perspective and see the trehalose as being legal in the USA. All FDA approved components.

Good little biz for someone who knows how to do, especially in USA where I think most orders may originate from. I would certainly purchase regularly; and with the positives shown in the research think could be a nice biz. I tried anal trehalose  while fasting, however do not think it absorbed well, as it came out as poop after a while. 

[Cmdr_Burrito]

Hello all, ok, it's time to provide a status update.  I've been steadily working with Actinovo to get a Liposomal Trehalose product developed, and I finally have in my hot little hands the first fruit of that labor.  I recently received an initial 1L sample of the product, and its final parameters are as follows:

 

Trehalose: 10% (active ingredient - 100mg/mL concentration rate)

Phospholipids: 13% (phosphatidylcholine - sun flower lecithin)

Ethanol: 1% (used to sterlize the bottle and cap before product filling)

Potassium Sorbate: 0.2% (preservative - yields a "sealed" shelf life of 6 months)

 

With the Potassium Sorbate preservative, product shelf life is:

6 months sealed at 18-25C

1-2 months unsealed at 6-8C

 

Without a preservative, product shelf life is:

2 months sealed at 18-25C

1 month unsealed at 6-8C

 

The product is only stable at temperatures between 5 C and 25 C.  At any temps colder or hotter than that, and the product begins to "delaminate" at a rate proportional to the temp.  Freezing immediately destroys the liposomes, and at temps of 36 C (body temp) or greater, the liposomes apparently breakdown at a fairly rapid rate.

 

The product does NOT taste good, and has an especially unpleasant "sour" aftertaste.  However, this apparently is normal for Actinovo products, and if desired they recommend mixing their products with something else in order to increase palatability.  Still they offer the option of flavoring the product with natural flavors, such as Orange,

Apple, Cherry, Strawberry, etc, etc… in order to try and mask the aftertaste.

 

I have been taking a total of ~2 tablespoons (~30mL) of the product per day (i.e., one tablespoon in the morning, and one at night) since receiving it, and have experienced zero gastrointestinal problems or side effects so far.  However, I am considering splitting this daily dose into three (3) equal doses of 2 teaspoons each, taken in the morning, afternoon, and then evening.

 

Actinovo claims they still have enough raw Trehalose on hand from what I shipped to them earlier, to produce "at least" 10L of product.

 

So, this is all well and good, but here’s the rub…

 

When I asked them what laboratory method they used to confirm and verify that they had in fact successfully generated a liposomally encapsulated trehalose product (as they said they had), they stated that they did NOT use a validation method after the production.  Rather, they simply started with a solution of 100g/L of trehalose as input, and ONLY their experience with making these types of products tells them that they were successful.  They didn't have any empirical data, and apparently had no way to actually test/verify the production success beyond "their experience tells them they were successful".  As such, I gather that because the solute appeared to have fully dissolved, did not appear to come out of solution after production, and could no longer be tasted in the final product following the encapsulation process, that was enough to convince them that the whole production process was successful.

 

While that sounds a bit dubious to me, and at first blush seems to be little better than the various homespun liposomal encapsulation methods that various people have reported having success with, I am "somewhat" inclined to believe that given Actinovo's proven expertise in making these types of products, it is a bit more reasonable to assign some additional weight to their claims of success.

 

At my current dose rate of 30mL per day, the product lasts me just a bit over one month per liter.  So I figure I can safely purchase at least 5L at a time for my own personal use without any risk of spoilage.

 

I'm unsure about the amount they are currently going to charge, but the last quote they gave me back in October 2018 for a minimum 5L production run including shipping was 730 euros (~$826 dollars).  Note that the 730 euro amount does NOT include any of my costs to procure and ship the raw trehalose product to them.

 

Given all of the above caveats, I wondering If anyone here is still interested in purchasing some quantity of this product, and if so how much? 

 

However, given that Actinovo apparently can't provide any real assurances or guarantees that they've actually produced what they think they have, I would totally understand if that might turn y'all off to the idea, especially given the probable price of this stuff.

 

Regards!

 

[Kevinsan]

Another option for all small scale liposomes is - healthydrops.net. They do all processing in Florida. All products are made the day of the order. So the product will last for one year. Small product orders available. They seem good for small scall manufacture and just in time manufacture. I have not contacted yet.