278 replies to this topic

[John250]

My wife had the tiredness from CJC 1295 DAC (1000 mkg). Have you heard about it?

No problem from Ipamorelin.

I also used both and no problems

P.S. Another question - after 2 months course how long with IGF-1 be high and when it will retirn to porecourse values?

.

It’s normal to get lethargy with cjc with dac as it’s long acting and you constantly get a GH bleed. igf will remain elevated for maybe 10 days at the most after cessation of use.

Ipamorelin has the least side effects but is also the weakest at increasing IGF.

Everyone’s side effects are different. Some people get tired, some people get extreme hunger, etc. and then some people don’t get any of the sides yet still the benefits. Some people also don’t get the benefits. I wish there was a scientific explanation as to why the side effects and results vary from person to person but I have not seen any studies showing why. The only correlation is the liver. The healthier your liver the more IGF increase you will get.

Edited by John250, 01 August 2018 - 04:58 PM.

[Rocket]

If that is accurate, the someone should run TUDCA for a few weeks beforehand to get their liver "right". TUDCA sure fixed up my liver enzymes.

[John250]

If that is accurate, the someone should run TUDCA for a few weeks beforehand to get their liver "right". TUDCA sure fixed up my liver enzymes.

Or you could just run it year-round. TUDCA Is excellent for the liver.

[Yuri]

If I understand correctly TUDCA is bear bile.

 

I tried before ox bile (in pills) but my stomack starts to ache after 2-3 days. It might be because I have some problems with my gall bladder

[John250]

If I understand correctly TUDCA is bear bile.

I tried before ox bile (in pills) but my stomack starts to ache after 2-3 days. It might be because I have some problems with my gall bladder

Just because you did not get the lethargy that does not mean there are any issues with your liver. Everyone responds differently and everyone’s side effects are different regardless.

[Yuri]

I got my peptides - ipamorelin and TB 500 - by mail, and they travelled almost 1 week during summer where temp is high

 

Now I'm thinking if I did the right thing to order them during summer. As they shall be kept if a freeze even when in powder

 

What's your opinion? Shall I throw them away? Money is not the main issue here, time and hopes are main issues

[John250]

I got my peptides - ipamorelin and TB 500 - by mail, and they travelled almost 1 week during summer where temp is high

Now I'm thinking if I did the right thing to order them during summer. As they shall be kept if a freeze even when in powder

What's your opinion? Shall I throw them away? Money is not the main issue here, time and hopes are main issues

No it’s not really an issue. Once they are mixed with Bacteriostatic water they must be kept in the fridge but even sitting out in the sun before reconstituted isn’t going to effect them. Most of them originally ship from China anyway and it’s extremely hot there. They are much more durable than you would think before reconstitution. Even unmixed peptides you still want to keep in the fridge. If you plan on keeping them any longer than a year it’s fine to put them in the freezer it will preserve them a little bit longer. But never put HGH or IGF in the freezer.

[Yuri]

One non-standard question. I have an unusually high Test level (slightly above the maximum value for my age). I've never taken any Test supplements; also I don't have big muscles which would justify this high Test. So my doctor said that this is "bad" Test which is the result of Test production in the bosy by some unusual (non-standard) route.

 

So most people think how to increase Test while I think how to decrease.

 

The solution from the doctor is the same as to increase - to take Test so as to diminish the production of own Test

 

But I feel that this does not address the root of the problem.

 

Any thoughts?

 

P.S. All cancer tests I passed; they are ok. And with all this high Test I have slightly decreased DHEA

[John250]

One non-standard question. I have an unusually high Test level (slightly above the maximum value for my age). I've never taken any Test supplements; also I don't have big muscles which would justify this high Test. So my doctor said that this is "bad" Test which is the result of Test production in the bosy by some unusual (non-standard) route.

So most people think how to increase Test while I think how to decrease.

The solution from the doctor is the same as to increase - to take Test so as to diminish the production of own Test

But I feel that this does not address the root of the problem.

Any thoughts?

P.S. All cancer tests I passed; they are ok. And with all this high Test I have slightly decreased DHEA

That’s the worst advice ever heard of Doctor say. If you take test it’s going to shut off your natural production and you have to rely on synthetic testosterone for the rest of your life. Having slightly higher range Test is much healthier for you than having it low. Testosterone is not the only factor for muscle growth either. There are lots of factors at play including the myostatin gene. If your cholesterol and hemoglobin is not affected from your naturally high testosterone then you have nothing to worry about and should be a healthier individual than most.

Edited by John250, 03 August 2018 - 04:22 PM.

[XenMan]

Sorry to jump in to disrupt the current momentum, and arrive late, but I’ll give some of my experiences and also state how good it is to have this perspective on performance enhances. At 50 my view is different to that of the youngsters, but still may be interesting…to someone.

 

There always needs to be some perspective, or background, when talking on this subject as a bit of a catch up, for assumed knowledge. I join this with the following:

 

Some people grow muscle, some don’t.

Some gain muscle and keep it, others don’t; with or without hormonals.

A bodybuilding protocol is healthspan, not maximum lifespan, due to mTOR activation.

 

I’ll add a few reviews:

 

Prohormones: Not to be used like steroids due to their short half life, and good as a gentle push beyond natural only once or twice a week. Andro 1 will smash your prostate, Andro 4 seems OK if limited, Andro 19 is great. Had a liver test a day after with no problems, once or twice week is without T suppression problems.

 

Insulin: Love this stuff, only nearly killed myself once!! Seems best when on the comeback, and is dose dependent with no effect after a while, or impact when discontinued. At 78 kg using 15 iu of novarapid pre workout, post workout and before main meal a few hours later as current protocol.

 

Ostarine: Amazing for cutting. Fast and exercise with no muscle loss.

 

MK677: Stacked it and not sure if it made a difference.

 

LG5(something): The endurance SARM, made me physically ill.

 

If I could get some good gear I would do a cycle. I would also use tapering off rather than PCT due to a unit I work with who did it that way, and had a dream run.

 

John is where many of us would like to be, but it is just not possible for some of us as we are all different.

 

My program has evolved for the shallow end of the gene pool for maximum results with minimal effort, not as impressive, but this is it:

 

Low carb through week with 2/3 HIIT sessions; 4 x 30 seconds on incline treadmill over 10 minutes, dex and protein pre.

 

One high intensity gym workout 45 minutes max, with prohormones, slin, dex, whey isolate, creatine, BCAAs.

 

More muscle and less fat than ever.

 

[John250]

Sorry to jump in to disrupt the current momentum, and arrive late, but I’ll give some of my experiences and also state how good it is to have this perspective on performance enhances. At 50 my view is different to that of the youngsters, but still may be interesting…to someone.

There always needs to be some perspective, or background, when talking on this subject as a bit of a catch up, for assumed knowledge. I join this with the following:

Some people grow muscle, some don’t.
Some gain muscle and keep it, others don’t; with or without hormonals.
A bodybuilding protocol is healthspan, not maximum lifespan, due to mTOR activation.

I’ll add a few reviews:

Prohormones: Not to be used like steroids due to their short half life, and good as a gentle push beyond natural only once or twice a week. Andro 1 will smash your prostate, Andro 4 seems OK if limited, Andro 19 is great. Had a liver test a day after with no problems, once or twice week is without T suppression problems.

Insulin: Love this stuff, only nearly killed myself once!! Seems best when on the comeback, and is dose dependent with no effect after a while, or impact when discontinued. At 78 kg using 15 iu of novarapid pre workout, post workout and before main meal a few hours later as current protocol.

Ostarine: Amazing for cutting. Fast and exercise with no muscle loss.

MK677: Stacked it and not sure if it made a difference.

LG5(something): The endurance SARM, made me physically ill.

If I could get some good gear I would do a cycle. I would also use tapering off rather than PCT due to a unit I work with who did it that way, and had a dream run.

John is where many of us would like to be, but it is just not possible for some of us as we are all different.

My program has evolved for the shallow end of the gene pool for maximum results with minimal effort, not as impressive, but this is it:

Low carb through week with 2/3 HIIT sessions; 4 x 30 seconds on incline treadmill over 10 minutes, dex and protein pre.

One high intensity gym workout 45 minutes max, with prohormones, slin, dex, whey isolate, creatine, BCAAs.

More muscle and less fat than ever.

Tapering off will not restore your HPTA system as any dose of AAS will shut it down regardless of the amount. The only way it will restart is if you are off everything and the body will eventually restore it naturally (Sometimes it won’t) and it will take a very long time. Otherwise Clomid is the only drug to restart it.

P.S. my looks are not genetic. I was 40% body fat in high school and never picked up a wait until I was 19 years old. that pic of me was in 2012 after 11 years of hard training and around 7 of those 10yrs I was on steroids. My entire life was dedicated to bodybuilding. I could not have accomplished that look without drugs and most people couldn’t. In fact I should’ve looked better than that compared to some of my friends but I always used lower doses of drugs never high. Not by choice either but because my immune system didn’t respond well and I would always get sick. Didn’t matter what the lab was human grade or underground. But it was a blessing in disguise as I could’ve had far worse health complications. 5-6 days/wk I would train hard, eat anywhere from 5 to 7 times a day, did not socialize, etc. if I could do it all over again I would’ve just gotten into weight training for health and hobby purposes and lived a more youthful life. The only good thing about my genetics is I am about 75% Endomorph 25% Mesomorph so I don’t lose muscle as long as I am on HRT. I can be in a caloric deficit and not even train with weights and I still keep the muscle I gained but I can also get fat if I don’t stay on my HRT and eat fast food every day.

Edited by John250, 04 August 2018 - 12:04 AM.

[Rocket]

"Bodybuilding is about healthspan, not lifespan".... That's the first time I've heard anyone nail it on the head like that.

[XenMan]

I straddle the barbed wire fence between the healthspan and lifespan protocols; let you know in 30 years if it works.

 

If you aren't pushing serious heavy metal in your old age, you are a car crash, flu or fall away from dying with your 45 kg body; no matter what diet or supplements you have been taking for your lifetime.

[Ibbz]

There are lots of factors at play including the myostatin gene. 

 

Have you ever tried Epicatechin or something similar myostatin inhibition? 

[John250]

Have you ever tried Epicatechin or something similar myostatin inhibition?

Epicatechin Is in some pre workouts but it’s used more for a pump. There isn’t really any myostatin inhibitors out that are worth using. They are really expensive and most have been proven to be not very effective. I think it’s going to be quite a while before a legitimate one comes out more than likely it will be extremely expensive.

[Rocket]

When I experiment with anabolics on my rats, their lipids go way bad for those 12 weeks. What do you reccomend to prevent heart disease? I have a cocktail of supps but I want to hear your advice.

[John250]

When I experiment with anabolics on my rats, their lipids go way bad for those 12 weeks. What do you reccomend to prevent heart disease? I have a cocktail of supps but I want to hear your advice.

Almost all steroids will trash your lipids but it’s only temporary while on cycle so not that big of a deal as long as you’re not always running cycles. The most beneficial I’ve noticed has been 500mg 2x/day Citrus Bergamot and 9g/day omega oils.

Edited by John250, 07 August 2018 - 01:44 AM.

[John250]

Have you ever tried Epicatechin or something similar myostatin inhibition?

Just saw this:

ACE-083 is a locally acting follistatin-based therapeutic that binds myostatin and other muscle regulators and has been shown to increase muscle mass and force in neuromuscular disease mouse models. This first-in-human study examined these effects.

METHODS:
In this phase 1, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging study in healthy postmenopausal women, ACE-083 (50-200 mg) or placebo was administered unilaterally into rectus femoris (RF) or tibialis anterior (TA) muscles as 1 or 2 doses 3 weeks apart.

RESULTS:
Fifty-eight postmenopausal women were enrolled, 42 ACE-083 and 16 placebo. No serious adverse events (AE), dose-limiting toxicities, or discontinuations resulting from AEs occurred. Maximum (mean ± SD) increases in RF and TA muscle volume were 14.5% ± 4.5% and 8.9% ± 4.7%, respectively. No significant changes in mean muscle strength were observed.

DISCUSSION:
ACE-083 was well tolerated and resulted in significant targeted muscle growth. ACE-083 may have the potential to increase muscle mass in a wide range of neuromuscular disorders. Muscle Nerve 57: 921-926, 2018.”

https://www.mdmag.co...cular-dystrophy

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/29486514/

[Rocket]

I don't know anyone with good results,if any,from peptides. Unfortunately the only things that work are anabolic hormones and insulin. I would love to run insulin but I would probably mess it up and get fat.

[John250]

I don't know anyone with good results,if any,from peptides. Unfortunately the only things that work are anabolic hormones and insulin. I would love to run insulin but I would probably mess it up and get fat.

I got great results from peptides. The problem is the quality. The only place I really trust now is Peptidetech

What I’ve used with great results is

100mcg ghrp2 or ghrp6 with 100mcg cjc no dac 2-3x/day

750mcg ipam with 100mcg cjc no dac 2x/day

Hexarelin 100mcg 2x/day

Didn’t get much from cjc with dac

But imo none of the above is as good as 2-4iu quality HGH

Insulin can be used without getting fat you just have to be particular with your carb/fat timing. During the window insulin is in your system you should avoid fats over 10 g.

Stick with fast acting insulin like humalog. Follow the carb per iu rule. During its first peak 10carbs per iu insulin. 2nd peak 5 carbs per iu.

Edited by John250, 08 August 2018 - 02:51 AM.

[triguy]

Just saw this:

ACE-083 is a locally acting follistatin-based therapeutic that binds myostatin and other muscle regulators and has been shown to increase muscle mass and force in neuromuscular disease mouse models. This first-in-human study examined these effects.

METHODS:
In this phase 1, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, dose-ranging study in healthy postmenopausal women, ACE-083 (50-200 mg) or placebo was administered unilaterally into rectus femoris (RF) or tibialis anterior (TA) muscles as 1 or 2 doses 3 weeks apart.

RESULTS:
Fifty-eight postmenopausal women were enrolled, 42 ACE-083 and 16 placebo. No serious adverse events (AE), dose-limiting toxicities, or discontinuations resulting from AEs occurred. Maximum (mean ± SD) increases in RF and TA muscle volume were 14.5% ± 4.5% and 8.9% ± 4.7%, respectively. No significant changes in mean muscle strength were observed.

DISCUSSION:
ACE-083 was well tolerated and resulted in significant targeted muscle growth. ACE-083 may have the potential to increase muscle mass in a wide range of neuromuscular disorders. Muscle Nerve 57: 921-926, 2018.”

https://www.mdmag.co...cular-dystrophy

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/29486514/

 

 

A company came up with this peptide but never marketed it.    I have been digging high & low for a LEGITIMATE source! ;(.      You won't find one!  it does not exist.   Try an look up the CAS# for ace-083, you will not find one.  No CAS#.  NOT a legitimAte pharmaceutical peptide,  no way am I buying it from china!

[John250]

A company came up with this peptide but never marketed it. I have been digging high & low for a LEGITIMATE source! ;(. You won't find one! it does not exist. Try an look up the CAS# for ace-083, you will not find one. No CAS#. NOT a legitimAte pharmaceutical peptide, no way am I buying it from china!

I’m sure the guys training at Oxygen Gym in Kuwait have access. They are on a sub human level at over 300lbs!

Attached Files

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[triguy]

I’m sure the guys training at Oxygen Gym in Kuwait have access. They are on a sub human level at over 300lbs!

 

            lol

 

  I saw this & was reading some comments,.... hearsay says they are doing 20+ units of GH a day!!!!!!!!!

 

 

This makes sense,  He has that Puffed up, blown up, too much mass too fast GH look...   SAD IMO

 

 

 

"Quality, over QUANTITY"

 

Classic Physique has RISEN, since we destroyed the LOOK of bodybuilding (the kind that made it appealing to the masses ...."a la HANEY")

 

Classic physique will be the NEW BODYBUILDING,   Mass monsters will probably have 1 show a year to strut there craziness..   Mr. Olympia.    212 div & then OPEN.      They need a Marketable name for a NEW female division (think CORY EVERSON look/size combo,  NO BIGGER).    Feminine, beauty & size!!    

[YoungSchizo]

Any suggestions what's safe to take when you suffer from schizophrenia? I probably should stay away from AAS since it's imminent it'll provoke positive symptoms though I've been battling for 8 years but don't gain any muscle mass due to antipsychotics. Antipsychotics just kills my body's ability to gain even a gram of muscle even though my body is able to gain muscle's fast. I went off antipsychotics once for a year and gained 5KG pure muscle mass in that year. All other years been a total waste, trying other diets/supplements/schedules/techniques  and whatnot, result = only gained fat.

[John250]

lol

I saw this & was reading some comments,.... hearsay says they are doing 20+ units of GH a day!!!!!!!!!


This makes sense, He has that Puffed up, blown up, too much mass too fast GH look... SAD IMO



"Quality, over QUANTITY"

Classic Physique has RISEN, since we destroyed the LOOK of bodybuilding (the kind that made it appealing to the masses ...."a la HANEY")

Classic physique will be the NEW BODYBUILDING, Mass monsters will probably have 1 show a year to strut there craziness.. Mr. Olympia. 212 div & then OPEN. They need a Marketable name for a NEW female division (think CORY EVERSON look/size combo, NO BIGGER). Feminine, beauty & size!!

I like all aspects of bodybuilding and think they all have their place. Personally I am a fan of the mass monsters. Markus Ruhl, Vic Richards,Paul Dillet,etc..I love the freak of nature aspect. Roelly is going to dial in and lost that water weight and be just down right freaky this year!

[John250]

Any suggestions what's safe to take when you suffer from schizophrenia? I probably should stay away from AAS since it's imminent it'll provoke positive symptoms though I've been battling for 8 years but don't gain any muscle mass due to antipsychotics. Antipsychotics just kills my body's ability to gain even a gram of muscle even though my body is able to gain muscle's fast. I went off antipsychotics once for a year and gained 5KG pure muscle mass in that year. All other years been a total waste, trying other diets/supplements/schedules/techniques and whatnot, result = only gained fat.

So here is the problem with steroids. They are going to Exaberate any negatives you have. If you are a calm person by nature you’re not going to get “roid rage”. If you have the ability to blow up with anger it’s going to make it worse. I feel that steroids can actually negatively impact brain chemistry overtime so already having a pre-existing brain disorder I would highly suggest you not to use steroids. HGH on the other hand is a whole different ballgame. When used in low/moderate doses the side effects are very rare and it actually has a ton of health benefits. Helps rejuvenate the brain and the body and most importantly it will help burn your unwanted body fat you gained from all the meds. I wasn’t aware that antipsychotics can actually lower testosterone levels I always thought the body fat increase was due to them increasing your appetite. But if in fact they do lower testosterone levels then there is nothing wrong with you going on testosterone replacement therapy if your levels are truly low. By testosterone replacement therapy that does not mean super high doses it just means putting your levels in range where they should be for your age opposed to where they are currently. The combination of adequate testosterone levels with the introduction of HGH should really impact you in a positive way but I highly suggest you do not use other anabolic steroids as they will make symptoms worse. Ever notice how most older bodybuilders are fucking psychopaths LOL a lot of them are alone living in a shell no friends, etc. not all of them but the ones who had previous pre-existing conditions which a huge majority of people in general have and we don’t know the %’s due to the lack of people getting psychologically evaluated.

It’s really a shame how doctors negate all of the other negative symptoms that come from medications and only focus on results they see from research papers. You give somebody a med to improve depression yet they become impotent from it and that just gives a whole new realm of depression. You give someone medication for depression and they gain 30 pounds of fat that just gives a whole new realm of depression. There is no reason why a medication cannot be developed to fix brain chemistry and not cause all of the unwanted side effects or there is no reason why other medications can’t be implicated to negate those negatives but doctors have failed to evaluate and act on this. And the main reason is because the Dr.’s don’t take the medications themself. That’s why generally the most knowledgeable people with disorders from medicine know more about the actual medicine than the doctors themselves.

Edited by John250, 12 August 2018 - 08:48 PM.

[triguy]

I like all aspects of bodybuilding and think they all have their place. Personally I am a fan of the mass monsters. Markus Ruhl, Vic Richards,Paul Dillet,etc..I love the freak of nature aspect. Roelly is going to dial in and lost that water weight and be just down right freaky this year!

 

 

holy blast from the past!!    VIC RICHARDS!

[John250]

holy blast from the past!! VIC RICHARDS!

And just think. He was this big back when all the hardcore drugs weren’t even out yet!

https://www.google.c...uR1lGh07QHGATM:

[Rocket]

So here is the problem with steroids. They are going to Exaberate any negatives you have. If you are a calm person by nature you’re not going to get “roid rage”. If you have the ability to blow up with anger it’s going to make it worse. I feel that steroids can actually negatively impact brain chemistry overtime so already having a pre-existing brain disorder I would highly suggest you not to use steroids. HGH on the other hand is a whole different ballgame. When used in low/moderate doses the side effects are very rare and it actually has a ton of health benefits. Helps rejuvenate the brain and the body and most importantly it will help burn your unwanted body fat you gained from all the meds. I wasn’t aware that antipsychotics can actually lower testosterone levels I always thought the body fat increase was due to them increasing your appetite. But if in fact they do lower testosterone levels then there is nothing wrong with you going on testosterone replacement therapy if your levels are truly low. By testosterone replacement therapy that does not mean super high doses it just means putting your levels in range where they should be for your age opposed to where they are currently. The combination of adequate testosterone levels with the introduction of HGH should really impact you in a positive way but I highly suggest you do not use other anabolic steroids as they will make symptoms worse. Ever notice how most older bodybuilders are fucking psychopaths LOL a lot of them are alone living in a shell no friends, etc. not all of them but the ones who had previous pre-existing conditions which a huge majority of people in general have and we don’t know the %’s due to the lack of people getting psychologically evaluated.

It’s really a shame how doctors negate all of the other negative symptoms that come from medications and only focus on results they see from research papers. You give somebody a med to improve depression yet they become impotent from it and that just gives a whole new realm of depression. You give someone medication for depression and they gain 30 pounds of fat that just gives a whole new realm of depression. There is no reason why a medication cannot be developed to fix brain chemistry and not cause all of the unwanted side effects or there is no reason why other medications can’t be implicated to negate those negatives but doctors have failed to evaluate and act on this. And the main reason is because the Dr.’s don’t take the medications themself. That’s why generally the most knowledgeable people with disorders from medicine know more about the actual medicine than the doctors themselves.

Speaking of pre-existing conditions, my one mouse has insomnia. The mouse took trenbolone and the insomnia got worse and that was 2 years ago and the worsened insomnia has not improved. So yes, I agree steroids affect the brain chemistry.

Its such a shame anabolics are illegal. Properly used with the precautions and medical monitoring, they are safer than cigarettes and pot and alcohol which are all legal. No one ever injected nandrolone and lost control of their car.

You may disagree with me, but nandrolone healed my other mousses shoulder that I thought was going to keep him from weight training... He is now benching 300 1x with said shoulder injury. Decade has been fantastic for my mice's joints.

Edited by Rocket, 14 August 2018 - 01:03 AM.

[John250]

Speaking of pre-existing conditions, my one mouse has insomnia. The mouse took trenbolone and the insomnia got worse and that was 2 years ago and the worsened insomnia has not improved. So yes, I agree steroids affect the brain chemistry.

Its such a shame anabolics are illegal. Properly used with the precautions and medical monitoring, they are safer than cigarettes and pot and alcohol which are all legal. No one ever injected nandrolone and lost control of their car.

You may disagree with me, but nandrolone healed my other mousses shoulder that I thought was going to keep him from weight training... He is now benching 300 1x with said shoulder injury. Decade has been fantastic for my mice's joints.

Tren can cause insomnia even in people not predisposed to it. Also Deca is fantastic for joint health so I’m not surprised.