117 replies to this topic

[Empiricus]

Problem with fasting is you lose muscle mass, which takes a while to gain back, and then supposedly lack of muscle could lower metabolism.  That's the reason I would hesitate to embark on this approach.  

 

Or does use of red light help prevent muscle mass loss by feeding the body loose triglycerides?  

[John250]

The only thing that will let you lose fat at a light speed pace without losing muscle is an uncopular like DNP but be extremely careful.

[Turnbuckle]

The only thing that will let you lose fat at a light speed pace without losing muscle is an uncopular like DNP but be extremely careful.

 

 

Uncouplers as well as mito fission will likely increase hunger. (Fission certainly does in my experience.) You can lose weight very rapidly with fasting, if you eliminate hunger with red light and L-carnitine. Taking essential amino acids should minimize muscle loss.

[HighDesertWizard]

Turnbuckle... Bought this red LED flashlight at Amazon. Have tried it for a few days now. Using the flashlight in the way you describe. My anecdotal experience confirms yours. Strong desire for food drops dramatically very quickly.

 

I've been doing L-Carnitine and Sulforaphane for a while so getting going was easy. I haven't tried fasting yet, just extreme low carb. But I can easily imagine doing fasting because the red LED light takes removes any strong desire for food.

 

What should I call it? I'm going to post about my experience on Facebook referencing your post.

 

... the Turnbuckle Red Diet, the Turnbuckle Flashlight Diet, the Turnbuckle Red LED Diet?

 

Thanks for the fantastic tip!

 

Cheers!

 

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 18 August 2018 - 10:25 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle... Bought this red LED flashlight at Amazon. Have tried it for a few days now. Using the flashlight in the way you describe. My anecdotal experience confirms yours. Strong desire for food drops dramatically very quickly.

 

I've been doing L-Carnitine and Sulforaphane for a while so getting going was easy. I haven't tried fasting yet, just extreme low carb. But I can easily imagine doing fasting because the red LED light takes removes any strong desire for food.

 

What should I call it? I'm going to post about my experience on Facebook referencing your post.

 

... the Turnbuckle Red Diet, the Turnbuckle Flashlight Diet, the Turnbuckle Red LED Diet?

 

Thanks for the fantastic tip!

 

Cheers!

 

 

Thanks! I'll let you choose which one. By the way, for use at home you can pull out the big guns--

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The one drawback for personal use is the heatsink with its aluminum fins. Another possibility that covers those sharp edges--

https://www.amazon.c...L70_&dpSrc=srch

[HighDesertWizard]

Turnbuckle...

It's 3 weeks later and I've lost 10 pounds, a belt loop, and my "skinny jeans" have begun to get baggy in the butt.

I didn't attempt to fast but, instead, I have dramatically cut my carbohydrate consumption.

A couple days ago, someone who hadn't seen me in a month said, "you look great, what are you doing?"

The "placebo effect" I'm experiencing by shining my body with red LED light every day is the same you've experienced. My appetite is profoundly reduced.

I've lost the 10 pounds without really trying hard. If I set my mind to it, I could lose more and faster. At first, I did try to do 3 low carb meals a day. Now, doing one or two is easy.

One strange thing, perhaps... Ketone measuring strips show no trace of ketones. I don't have experience using them so perhaps their not showing up is related to my inexperience.

I don't wait to feel hungry to do the shining of the light on my body. Doing it every 3 or 4 hours keeps me in a non-hungry state all day. No more than 5 minutes does the trick, and the feeling of fulness takes place within minutes, as you reported it did for you.

When I do eat, I'm doing so out of habit and not need.

I've been reading up on this a bit and experimenting too: shining it on other, non-fat parts of my body... And yes, THERE, too.

My initial findings are positive and if you look for them you can find studies showing that it might be helpful for THAT.

I'm very confident that I can lose lots of weight in a short time.

Thanks Turnbuckle for helping me to improve my health!

Edited by HighDesertWizard, 08 September 2018 - 09:08 AM.

[John250]

Losing weight is very simple. The first step is to get blood work to make sure all your hormones are functioning properly. The next step is basic science of calories in versus calories out. For the vast majority of people a low carbohydrate hi healthy fat moderate protein diet will let you achieve your results. Another tip is to try and revolve your carbs after your workouts this way you’re burning fat during your workouts as fuel not carbohydrates. and don’t mix fats and carbs in the same meal. For example one meal could be a big salad with chicken breast and Olive oil cheese, etc. that’s moderate protein high fat low carb the next meal if you want carbs for example chicken and a potato but no butter or fats. another tip is to try and revolve your carbs after your workouts and don’t mix fats and carbs in the same meal. Carbohydrates spike insulin. When insulin is spiked in fat is present it’s easier to gain fat.

Intermittent fasting is not only healthy but also an easy way to lose weight. You can literally consume all your calories in one meal if you want or spread it out in a few but as long as calories in versus calories out you will burn body fat as long as you have normal hormone function.

Edited by John250, 08 September 2018 - 05:51 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Losing weight is very simple.

 

 

 

In principle it is simple, but you've missed the point of this thread: What do you do about hunger?

[John250]

In principle it is simple, but you've missed the point of this thread: What do you do about hunger?

By simple I meant science-based calories in versus calories out. Hunger is a whole different ball game. Typically when you switch to a lower carb high healthy fat moderate protein diet the first two weeks can be kind of hard with cravings but after that your body gets used to using high healthy fats as fuel and it actually curbs your appetite much better than a higher carb based diet which will just spike insulin up and down all day leading to higher cravings and lethargy. I think intermittent fasting is great for appetite. When you give yourself an 8 thour window to get all your calories in you can have larger meals if you prefer or smaller, etc. you can pick which time of day you get most hungry like if you’re starving at night then pick your 8 hour window where your last meal is at night and you don’t eat as much in the morning, etc.
Unfortunately there is not many supplements that help curb appetite. In fact you always want to be a little bit hungry. You shouldn’t be extremely uncomfortably full or starving but always being a tiny bit hungry ensures your metabolism is working well.

[Turnbuckle]

 In fact you always want to be a little bit hungry. You shouldn’t be extremely uncomfortably full or starving but always being a tiny bit hungry ensures your metabolism is working well.

 

 

No. There is no reason to be hungry. If you can abolish hunger, then losing weight is easy.

[John250]

No. There is no reason to be hungry. If you can abolish hunger, then losing weight is easy.

Well I mean sure no hunger=no food so of course but I meant just a little hungry like “ yah I could eat but I’m not starving.”

[tolerant]

Fascinating topic! Far too complex for me to understand, so I want to make one thing clear: are you guys talking about killing fat cells altogether, or removing fat from them and making them more skinny? I assume it's the latter, but want to confirm. Thanks!

[Turnbuckle]

Fascinating topic! Far too complex for me to understand, so I want to make one thing clear: are you guys talking about killing fat cells altogether, or removing fat from them and making them more skinny? I assume it's the latter, but want to confirm. Thanks!

 

Diets and fasts don't work because people don't have the willpower to resist hunger, especially given the ready availability of food and the constant food porn on television. The object here is to lose weight rapidly by eliminating the hunger signal. During a fast, hunger results from a gap between supply and demand for triglycerides.

 

The triglyceride gap that produces hunger can be addressed from both the supply side and the demand side--

 

For the demand side, you can establish a state of mito fusion. With fusion, mitochondria burn declining fuel resources more efficiently.This happens naturally after a couple of days, but can be forced during the first couple of days with stearic acid.

 

For the supply side, you can up the supply of triglycerides systemically with supplements like carnitine fumarate, which increase the output of triglycerides from fat cells. This is far too slow to address sudden cravings, however, and that is dealt with using red light. Red light stimulates fat cells to put out more triglycerides in seconds, which then kills the hunger signal.

 

Rest assured that no fat cells are harmed in this process. 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 September 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[tolerant]

Thanks for that explanation, Turnbuckle. I remember being in kindergarten, back in the USSR, and red light therapy was mandatory. Everybody got undressed, put on goggles and did it.

 

Also, a stupid question, but is this weight loss protocol compatible with your equally astonishing amyloid beta plaque protocol? And have you, by any chance, discovered a protocol for treatment-resistant depression/anxiety?

 

P.S. Do you think this weight loss protocol could work without exercise. Say I've got a disability and cannot exercise?

Edited by tolerant, 16 September 2018 - 11:41 AM.

[tolerant]

"Although all the early studies used coherent lasers as the light source, it is now thought that noncoherent light emitting diodes [20] are also effective. The mechanism is based on absorption of red and near-infrared photons by chromophores in the mitochondria (particular cytochrome c oxidase) leading to increases of mitochondrial membrane potential, oxygen consumption, adenosine triphosphate (ATP), a transient increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS) [21], and a release of nitric oxide (NO)."

 

Nitric Oxide causes depression (see attached paper). Should I be worried by red light weight loss therapy?

Attached Files

•  Ashish Dhir, S.K. Kulkarni -- Nitric Oxide and Major Depression.pdf   802.18KB   2 downloads

Edited by tolerant, 16 September 2018 - 11:12 AM.

[tolerant]

I've been doing L-Carnitine and Sulforaphane for a while so getting going was easy. 

 

For the demand side, you can establish a state of mito fusion. With fusion, mitochondria burn declining fuel resources more efficiently.This happens naturally after a couple of days, but can be forced during the first couple of days with stearic acid.

 

So l-carnitine and sulforaphane you would generally use if trying to shed fat? And just continue using during the red light treatment phase? Could you recommend a trusted source for sulforaphane? And also the dose? It's not an iHerb item. Would also appreciate a source for stearic acid and the exact dosage and protocol. Thanks!

[Turnbuckle]

Nitric Oxide causes depression (see attached paper). Should I be worried by red light weight loss therapy?

 

 

People will worry about anything, won't they? But here you are using it for a minute or so on areas of fat. It's only depressing for fat cells that hate to give up their horde of triglycerides.

[Turnbuckle]

So l-carnitine and sulforaphane you would generally use if trying to shed fat? And just continue using during the red light treatment phase? Could you recommend a trusted source for sulforaphane? And also the dose? It's not an iHerb item. Would also appreciate a source for stearic acid and the exact dosage and protocol. Thanks!

 

I suggest stearic acid as it lasts far longer. Ten grams should be sufficient, maybe once a day over the first two days. Twice if necessary. In other protocols I've used it in hot chocolate or brownies, but that was to get a more immediate action. Here it doesn't matter if it takes a long time to digest.

 

You can get food grade from Amazon very cheaply.

 

There's been a lot of debate on other threads over what sort of stearic acid to buy, but just realize that nothing you buy from Amazon (or anywhere else that sells to the public) is pure stearic acid, no matter what any vendor claims. It's generally 40-60% stearic acid with the balance palmitic. That's okay as it's fine for this purpose. As for carnitine, I use a gram of carnitine fumarate as required. Individual results will vary, of course, so there is no strict protocol, just this general guidance. Bottom line: if you have banished hunger, then you are doing it right.

[tolerant]

For the demand side, you can establish a state of mito fusion. With fusion, mitochondria burn declining fuel resources more efficiently.This happens naturally after a couple of days, but can be forced during the first couple of days with stearic acid. 

 

 

I suggest stearic acid as it lasts far longer. 

 

So stearic acid and sulforaphane are both on the demand side, and either should be sufficient?

 

And what about this study? Would sulforaphane be useful in your Alzheimer's protocol?

Edited by tolerant, 16 September 2018 - 09:35 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

So stearic acid and sulforaphane are both on the demand side, and either should be sufficient?

 

And what about this study? Would sulforaphane be useful in your Alzheimer's protocol?

 

That sulforaphane paper was discussed on the AD thread back in June. The doses used were rather high, though it might be a fall back for those living in countries where HEPPS is not available--

 

We found that sulforaphane doses of 10 and 50 mg/kg (~1.69 and 8.45 μmol), which have been used in previous animal studies [4, 8, 46, 47], enhanced up-regulation of CHIP and HSP70 and cleared the production of Aβ and tau in mice. Therefore, the sulforaphane doses used in our animal studies represent a somewhat large amount for a human diet. The effect of sulforaphane doses less than 10 mg/kg or the optimal supplemental dose of sulforaphane is unknown and thus requires further investigation.

 

[tolerant]

Would this flashlight work for the protocol?

[tolerant]

That sulforaphane paper was discussed on the AD thread back in June. The doses used were rather high, though it might be a fall back for those living in countries where HEPPS is not available--

 

I've ordered HEPPS, but it will come later than most of the other stuff on the protocol. So I was thinking of beginning with just the taurine for dissolving plaques. I just realised that even the lower sulforaphane dose of 10 mg/kg in mice converts to just under 1 mg/kg for humans and that is way beyond what this supplement, which I ordered, provides. So I guess I can only use it for weight loss.

 

So I would now just need for someone to approve my flashlight in the post directly above this one, and to confirm that suforaphane does the same job as stearic acid so the two can be used interchangeably. Thank you, everyone.

Edited by tolerant, 16 September 2018 - 11:02 PM.

[tolerant]

The only thing that will let you lose fat at a light speed pace without losing muscle is an uncopular like DNP but be extremely careful.

 

DNP kills. How would you go about being extremely careful with it?

[tolerant]

Turnbuckle,

 

I can't quote your original post for some reason, but you say that you consumed a teaspoonful of essential amino acids, which therefore include the three BCAAs.

 

Research such as this has completely put me off BCCAs.

 

What do you think?

[YOLF]

That sulforaphane paper was discussed on the AD thread back in June. The doses used were rather high, though it might be a fall back for those living in countries where HEPPS is not available--

Good's Buffers are an interesting find. I wonder how many other applications they might have? Assuming they were selected for safety, there might be a good chance that they have other properties as far as aging is concerned.

[YOLF]

I've ordered HEPPS, but it will come later than most of the other stuff on the protocol. So I was thinking of beginning with just the taurine for dissolving plaques. I just realised that even the lower sulforaphane dose of 10 mg/kg in mice converts to just under 1 mg/kg for humans and that is way beyond what this supplement, which I ordered, provides. So I guess I can only use it for weight loss.

 

So I would now just need for someone to approve my flashlight in the post directly above this one, and to confirm that suforaphane does the same job as stearic acid so the two can be used interchangeably. Thank you, everyone.

I've been wondering if taurine can do what sulforaphane does anyways. I remember reading something to the effect that it's benefits are likely common to all organosulfur compounds... think shilajit (humic and fulvic acid) for example... Taurine is an organosulfur in the form of a protein which probably has a pretty lasting half life, is cheap, and raises testosterone while being generally healthy from a variety of other perspectives. Iirc there is tight(er) threshold for dosing with sulforaphane and there are side effects from taking too much?

[YOLF]

Turnbuckle,

 

I can't quote your original post for some reason, but you say that you consumed a teaspoonful of essential amino acids, which therefore include the three BCAAs.

 

Research such as this has completely put me off BCCAs.

 

What do you think?

FWIW, I noted that taking BCAAs made me look older. Perhaps this is not always the case or the T it raises is DHT instead of youthful T. I didn't perceive any benefit from it.

[Turnbuckle]

A few points--

 

• This thread is about losing weight, not AD. Let's keep any AD discussion on the relevant thread.

• This protocol is not to be construed as promoting a daily regime of any supplement. I used essential amino acids during a fast, and that's it. I don't take them on a regular basis. In fact, I don't take any supplement on a daily basis.

• Fusion is helpful for the first couple of days of a fast to get over the hump, but that's it. Like amino acids, it's not central to this protocol.

[Andey]

Ive tried using red light (this device https://www.amazon.c...duct/B071Z12H67  )during my fast.

To be honest I haven't noticed any effect but I am already one year into keto diet and I don't usually feel anything hunger alike during fasting. My main problem during fasting is a progressive difficulty getting and staying asleep and red light didn't help it either.

Probably it works for a not `fat adapted` person by helping mitochondrial bottleneck in fat oxidation.

 

P.S. I ve noticed though that red light makes wonders for a skin quality.

 

 

 

Edited by Andey, 17 September 2018 - 10:53 AM.

[John250]

DNP kills. How would you go about being extremely careful with it?

There are lots of different cycle regimens but definitely not something to mess with if you’re not already very experienced.