72 replies to this topic

[Phoebus]

NMN/NR is broken down by the liver into simple nicotinamide. The only way to avoid the liver altogether is either sublingual, IV, or transdermal. 

 

 

How to make an awesome transdermal NMN serum 

 

first get high quality DMSO, not that crap they sell on amazon with the tree on the label. Get legit pharma grade (DMSOstore) 

 

then experiment with DMSO water mixtures to find how much DMSO you can add to water before it becomes too irritating. Usually like 30% DMSO/70% water. Find the ratio you like. 

 

Then add the pure NMN powder from ALB. Don't use anything but pure powder.  Use however much you like, experiment. mix thoroughly 

 

Now add small amounts of hyaluronic acid powder....wait....add some more...wait...until its the consistency you like. HA might take an hour or 2 to fully absorb into the dmso/water/NMN mix. 

 

Unless you add some preservative this will go bad quickly, so keep in frig and use it up fast. 

 

This works great. 

 

 

Edited by Phoebus, 13 July 2018 - 12:24 AM.

[able]

How many Mg do you estimate can be absorbed over 24 hours using the most concentrated mixture you can produce?

[Phoebus]

How many Mg do you estimate can be absorbed over 24 hours using the most concentrated mixture you can produce?

 

honestly no idea 

 

I will say NMN readily absorbs into water and the DMSO takes it thru the skin deep into the body

 

I am 100% sure you will get more NMN actually into your bloodstream using this method vs taking it orally since the liver destroys the NMN/NR chemical bonds

 

how it compares to sublingual i have no idea 

[Boopy!]

what is ALB?   and this is a very good suggestion!   makes better sense

[male_1978]

What are your experiences with this serum? Does it help improve the skin (did you check one side of your face only?)?

 

What about skin thickness, color, wrinkels, firmness?

 

Or is it meant as a method to absorb it into the bloodstream?

[Phoebus]

what is ALB?   and this is a very good suggestion!   makes better sense

 

 alivebynature brand  NMN PURE Powder 

 

the only pure NMN/NR powder available currently 

 

abbreviation should be ABN not ALB, sorry about that 

Edited by Phoebus, 13 July 2018 - 01:21 PM.

[Phoebus]

What are your experiences with this serum? Does it help improve the skin (did you check one side of your face only?)?

 

What about skin thickness, color, wrinkels, firmness?

 

Or is it meant as a method to absorb it into the bloodstream?

 

for the face the DMSO content needs to be low, like 10% or lower. Face tissue does not like DMSO. But yes it works fantastic as a face serum, although I didnt do the one side of face only test. 

 

In fact for the face it doesnt even need DMSO since the HA will penetrate the skin despite its high molecular weight due to the needle like structure of the HA itself.

 

as a transdermal delivery serum you want high DMSO content and high NMN content 

 

as a face/skin serum you need low DMSO (or none), and you dont need as much NMN powder. Maybe add some Vit C, although I did not. 

 

This is all fairly new so I cant give exact measurements, sorry 

Edited by Phoebus, 13 July 2018 - 12:48 PM.

[able]

Sounds interesting.  

 

NAD+ IV clinics seem to be popping up all over.  They hook patients up to an IV for 8 hours, to give them a constant drip of NAD+  in the blood.  And charge  thousands of dollars.

 

In theory, a transdermal patch might be able to deliver a slow, constant supply of NMN to the bloodstream much like an IV drip.  

 

Or maybe even better as it is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at a tiny fraction of the cost these clinics are charging.

 

 

 

[Boopy!]

sheesh I know if wishes were horses I'd have a stable-full,    but I just WISH that people wouldn't take advantage of desperate folks.   I see it so much,   every damn day.....yeah yeah capitalism etc

[Phoebus]

 

 

In theory, a transdermal patch might be able to deliver a slow, constant supply of NMN to the bloodstream much like an IV drip.  

 

 

 

 

thats kind of what i am trying to do with the transD serum 

 

apply some in the am, the afternoon, a few times in the pm

 

that way there is some NAD+ action throughout the day 

[Phoebus]

So I have been doing the transdermal NMN serum for about 8 or 9 days now

 

Here's the deal....WOW!

 

this is easily the most powerful method of taking NR/NMN I have personally experienced. The one overwhelming sensation is improved energy. Really just wonderful vibrant feeling of sustained energy throughout the day. 

 

I cant see going back to gulping down pills. I have 2 bottles of NR sitting here that I cant see taking unless things change. 

 

This method vs oral caps is like a ferrari vs a Fiero 

 

The great thing is that you actually use less NMN and get a much greater affect. I am convinced this is because it bypasses the liver completely. 

 

i really hope others try this method. Its working great for me so far. We will see if it continues to do so or not. 

[able]

Phoebus - where do you get your empty patches?  

[Phoebus]

Phoebus - where do you get your empty patches?  

 

I am not using patches, just plain serum on skin 

 

I rub it on my shoulders, knees, thighs and chest 

[able]

I am not using patches, just plain serum on skin 

 

I rub it on my shoulders, knees, thighs and chest 

 

Ah, ic.  

 

I do believe bypassing the liver makes NMN (and NR) much more effective and get FAR more benefit from sublingual delivery.

 

However, once in the bloodstream, the liver will filter it out in 15-30 minutes.

 

I think the transdermal approach may have even more potential, as it is likely a much slower, time released delivery.

 

So wouldn't a patch tend to spread out delivery of the NMN over a longer period of time?

 

I'd think it would be best if it took several hours at least.  

 

Then you could apply twice a day for a constant NAD+ boost.

 

For $5 a day, you could mimick the NAD+ clinics that charge thousands of dollars and hook patients to an IV drip for 8-10 hours.

[Phoebus]

 

 

However, once in the bloodstream, the liver will filter it out in 15-30 minutes.

 

 

 

ok, but first where are you getting those numbers? 

 

secondly, if you apply this to the skin the DMSO takes it deep into the tissues, into the musles into the lymph, etc. Its not like it just goes directly to the bloodstreamn and head immediately for the liver 

[able]

ok, but first where are you getting those numbers? 

 

secondly, if you apply this to the skin the DMSO takes it deep into the tissues, into the musles into the lymph, etc. Its not like it just goes directly to the bloodstreamn and head immediately for the liver 

 

Dr Sinclair's research shows NMN appears in the blood in minutes and by 15 minutes disappears from the blood, and begins elevating NAD+ in the liver.

 

So I am just guessing that in humans it is likely slower, but not in the bloodstream for long.  I've seen 15-30 minutes mentioned somewhere, but can't recall where.

 

So the transdermal method with DMSO might be more location specific?  I guess it depends on how much gets to the bloodstream and how much into muscle/tissues at the application site.  

 

Interesting.  I've found my joint problems have disappeared over a few months time.  But with your approach, you could target problem areas much better.

Edited by able, 16 July 2018 - 10:46 PM.

[stefan_001]

@Phoebus the NR you could disolve and remove filler. User TNMNK who proposed it has described it somewhere in detail. Here my shirt description:

 

- open capsule (I usually take two) and put the contents in small cup,

- add some water e.g. couple ml's

- mix well and let it stand for a while

- the filler slowly sinks and NR is disolved in liquid

- poor off the liquid that has the NR in a clean cup/vial

- folder a small filter from coffee filter paper and poor the remainder through the filter, the filler will stay behind

- squeeze the filter so all NR liquid drops out

 

 

Edited by stefan_001, 17 July 2018 - 06:28 AM.

[APBT]

Dr Sinclair's research shows NMN appears in the blood in minutes and by 15 minutes disappears from the blood, and begins elevating NAD+ in the liver.

 

So I am just guessing that in humans it is likely slower, but not in the bloodstream for long.  I've seen 15-30 minutes mentioned somewhere, but can't recall where.

 

https://alivebynatur..._eid=a1621ff81f

 

 

 

SHORT WINDOW FOR MAXIMUM AVAILABILITY

 

The chart at right is from the 2016 Mills study with mice given 300 mg/kg of bodyweight by oral gavage.

It clearly shows NMN is found in blood plasma within minutes, peaking at around 15 minutes. After that, NMN drops rapidly in blood, and appears as increased NAD+ in the liver.

 

Of course this is in Mice, and humans have a slower response, but we believe it is during the short time period when NMN is available in the bloodstream and can reach tissues throughout the body that the real benefits occur.

[Phoebus]

https://alivebynatur..._eid=a1621ff81f

 

 

thanks this makes my point. That tiny window where the NR/NMN (from oral supplements) is in the bloodstream and before it hits the liver is the window of benefit. After that...? its just nicotinamide. 

 

using the transdermal method you keep it in the tissue for much longer before the liver breaks the chemical bonds of the NR/NMN and converts it to plain old N

 

DMSO takes it into the skin, the tissue, the lymph, the bloodstream, etc. Anything in the bloodstream will quickly pass thru the liver, but that may not be the case for substances in the lymph, skin, cartilege, or other tissues 

Edited by Phoebus, 17 July 2018 - 07:59 PM.

[able]

 

 

thanks this makes my point. That tiny window where the NR/NMN is in the bloodstream and before it hits the liver is the window of benefit. After that...? its just nicotinamide. 

 

using the transdermal method you keep it in the tissue for much longer before the liver breaks the chemical bonds of the NR/NMN and converts it to plain old N

 

DMSO takes it into the skin, the tissue, the lymph, the bloodstream, etc. Anything in the bloodstream will quickly pass thru the liver, but that may not be the case for substances in the lymph, skin, cartilege, or other tissues 

 

 

 

Good points.  I am waiting delivery of DMSO now to give the transdermal delivery a try.

 

The "tiny window" that nmn is in the blood before filtered out by the liver is why they recommend many small doses throughout the day, which I personally believe makes a big difference.  

 

Am looking forward to using both methods together.

Edited by able, 17 July 2018 - 07:30 PM.

[APBT]

Tangentially related, Alive By Nature (ABN), is offering 10% off on their sublingual products.  Use this code at checkout:  TENOFFJULY2018

[stefan_001]

Which DSMO product did you buy if I may ask? Quite some options:

https://www.amazon.c...I&redirect=true

 

[APBT]

Which DSMO product did you buy if I may ask? Quite some options:

https://www.amazon.c...I&redirect=true

 

I think this is the product he's referring to:  https://www.amazon.c...31857025&sr=8-1

[Phoebus]

Which DSMO product did you buy if I may ask? Quite some options:

https://www.amazon.c...I&redirect=true

 

get the 99.995% by 'DMSO store'

 

their dmso is top notch, legit pharma grade. 

[Phoebus]

ah ok! Found the study which shows that all, or nearly alll, of the orally ingested nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) get almost entirely converted to Nicotinamide (NAM) in the liver.

 

 

https://www.right-of...ientific-Puzzle

 

A new study published April 19, 2018, in Cell Metabolism("the Isotope study") says that orally ingested nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) get almost entirely converted to Nicotinamide (NAM) in the liver.

 

They used isotopes to track the molecules, and compared orally ingested NR and NMN with intravenously delivered NR and NMN.

 

As a result, the study concludes, (1) "NR and NMN are effectively delivered to tissues by i.v., but not oral, administration," and

 

 

now if you read on in that article they do go on to point out that its possible that not ALL of the NR gets converted to NAM in the liver. But nevertheless its clear that at least a good portion of it does. 

 

[able]

ah ok! Found the study which shows that all, or nearly alll, of the orally ingested nicotinamide riboside (NR) and nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) get almost entirely converted to Nicotinamide (NAM) in the liver.

 

 

 

now if you read on in that article they do go on to point out that its possible that not ALL of the NR gets converted to NAM in the liver. But nevertheless its clear that at least a good portion of it does. 

 

 

Exactly. There is some reason NR and NMN have different effect than NAM, but it does seem clear they have poor bioavailability.  

 

Hence the need for sublingual or transdermal or some more effective delivery method.

 

Even MikeDC admits that.  I do agree with him that Chromadex is a big fail for not addressing this issue.

[stefan_001]

I think this is the product he's referring to:  https://www.amazon.c...31857025&sr=8-1

 

ok thanks
 

[APBT]

Tangentially related, Alive By Nature (ABN), is offering 10% off on their sublingual products.  Use this code at checkout:  TENOFFJULY2018

 

Correction, the coupon is only valid for their NMN PURE Powder.

[TMNMK]

Ordered the NMN powder, hyaluronic acid, and fortunately already have DMSO lying around, so I'm looking forward to giving this a shot - cool experiment Phoebus, hats off! Also going to do the intranasal NMN now that I have the powder coming

[HaplogroupW]

 

The only way to avoid the liver altogether is either sublingual, IV, or transdermal.

 

Why would liposomal not be an option, assuming one can get it or make it?