9 replies to this topic

[ImprovingMyself]

Hey all,
I am interested in the ability of HA to potentially regrow fat. I have hollows under my eyes and would like to fill them in. This study seems promising, but I am not sure if I am missing something. If this is really true it seems groundbreaking and disruptive to doctors who make lots of money off HA and fat injectable fillers. Side note, this article is from Taiwan so some of the English is a bit wrong but the idea is there overall.

 

I know that HA injectables (often performed for volume loss in the face) need to be redone every now and then, but at increasing time intervals. So someone gets them one day, needs another round in 8 months, but then doesn't need another round for 1 year after that and so on.  This article seems to say that is partially because the HA allows fat to grow around it, so it takes longer each time for the amount of HA to degrade since HA degrades in everyone but fat only degrades due to age or weight loss. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25589892

 

(hASC = human adipose-derived stem cell)

New adipose tissue formation by human adipose-derived stem cells with hyaluronic acid gel in immunodeficient mice.

 

RESULTS:

hASCs were well attachment and proliferation on the HA gel. In vivo grafts showed well-organized new adipose tissue on the HA gel by histologic examination and Oil-Red O stain. Analysis of neo-adipose tissues by PCR revealed the presence of the Alu gene. This study demonstrated not only the successful culture of hASCs on HA gel, but also their full proliferation and differentiation into adipose tissue.

CONCLUSIONS:

The efficacy of injected filler could be permanent since the reduction of the volume of the HA gel after bioabsorption could be replaced by new adipose tissue generated by hASCs. This is a promising approach for developing long lasting soft tissue filler.

 

 

Please let me know if my thought process is wrong. I am thinking about buying HA serum to use on my face. Has anyone used this and noticed fat gain/plumping?

[Boopy!]

you would have to inject it,   along with very,  very carefully made stem cells and fat cells from your own blood,   and even then,   not necessarily will it look right,   take hold,  or look better at all.    They used to claim hyaluronic acid injections on their own stimulated collagen,   as they did with Radiesse and Sculptra.  Notice a lot of doctors are no longer claiming it can stimulate collagen because too many people have seen that it goes back to exactly what it was or WORSE (from skin sagging more as if from fat loss.)    Google it --- I looked into this for a long time,    but maybe I have too high standards.   But hyaluronic acid serum is cheap as is the powder,   so I take it (just finished the bag tonight)   although honestly I have seen ZERO difference!   It can't penetrate deep into the dermis and fat layer anyway,   or we'd be dead from all the  stuff getting through our skin besides serums.

[Nate-2004]

It is pretty expensive, I keep looking into it hoping it'll get cheaper but it doesn't. Probably due to the cartelization of professionals in the U.S. Especially anyone with a really high yelp rating. In light of this information about increasing time between the need for more injections I am more interested in it again.

[John250]

This is interesting because this is one of the newer supplements bodybuilders are injecting for localized site enhancement.

Edited by John250, 01 September 2018 - 07:27 PM.

[Boopy!]

It's so much more expensive and less useful though than the other substance they were using.   I mean they could use anything sterile i suppose,   that looked realistic enough.   Also the main reason injectables are so very pricey is Big Pharma.   I mean,   it doesn't cost a hundred bucks to make botox,  nor to inject it,   etc.   but the money to be made off of a cosmetic item is so tempting to big businesses with little regulation.   That is why I don't trust the statement that hyaluronic acid injections help grow subcutaneous fat.   I don't believe them at all.

Also the people being reviewed on yelp I assume are the docs or nurse injectors,  and they don't make the prices for the injectables.    Anyone selling less pricey injectables is doing so illegally and under the table.

[Phoebus]

2 case studies showing success with HA injections, both have pics

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4411601/

 

and 

 

https://journals.lww..._in_the.16.aspx

 

 

 

 

[Phoebus]

 

 

Midfacial rejuvenation by hyaluronic acid fillers and subcutaneous adipose tissue – A new concept

Author links open overlay panel

https://doi.org/10.1...ehy.2015.01.023Get rights and content

 

Abstract

 

In midface rejuvenation, hyaluronic acid (HA) fillers are commonly used as a versatile tool to improve appearance and to correct V-deformities and loss of volume. The induction of collagen as a major constituent of extracellular matrix (ECM) has been considered to be a basic effect of the rejuvenation procedure. Although commonly described as “dermal” soft fillers, histologic studies localized HA filler in the subcutaneous adipose tissue.

Deep injection whenever possible lead to prolonged efficacy. Since volumizing HA filler induce mechanical stress not only to fibroblasts but adipocytes and deep injection itself causes minor trauma in the subcutaneous adipose tissue we suggest that the activation of adipose tissue-derived mesenchymal stem cells (ADMSC) is responsible for the observed clinical effects. We present a concept of filler action that discusses interactions of HA with adipocytes, ECM fiber network and ADMSC. Such a concept can explain the prolonged efficacy of deep midfacial filler placement and offers a new understanding to tailor HA fillers in the future

https://www.scienced...306987715000444

[Phoebus]

 

 

New Adipose Tissue Formation by Human Adipose-Derived Stem Cells with Hyaluronic Acid Gel in Immunodeficient Mice

 

 

ABSTRACT

 

Background: Currently available injectable fillers have demonstrated limited durability. This report proposes the in vitro culture of human adipose-derived stem cells (hASCs) on hyaluronic acid (HA) gel for in vivo growth of de novo adipose tissue.

Methods: For in vitro studies, hASCs were isolated from human adipose tissue and were confirmed by multi-lineage differentiation and flow cytometry. hASCs were cultured on HA gel. The effectiveness of cell attachment and proliferation on HA gel was surveyed by inverted light microscopy. For in vivo studies, HA gel containing hASCs, hASCs without HA gel, HA gel alone were allocated and subcutaneously injected into the subcutaneous pocket in the back of nude mice (n=6) in each group. At eight weeks post-injection, the implants were harvested for histological examination by hematoxylin and eosin (H&E) stain, Oil-Red O stain and immunohistochemical staining. The human-specific Alugene was examined.

Results: hASCs were well attachment and proliferation on the HA gel.In vivo grafts showed well-organized new adipose tissue on the HA gel by histologic examination and Oil-Red O stain. Analysis of neo-adipose tissues by PCR revealed the presence of the Alu gene. This study demonstrated not only the successful culture of hASCs on HA gel, but also their full proliferation and differentiation into adipose tissue.

Conclusions: The efficacy of injected filler could be permanent since the reduction of the volume of the HA gel after bioabsorption could be replaced by new adipose tissue generated by hASCs. This is a promising approach for developing long lasting soft tissue filler

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4293181/

 

unclear to me if they are describing a new method or a method already being used? 

Edited by Phoebus, 18 September 2018 - 12:43 AM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

Efficacy and safety of repeated courses of hyaluronic acid injections for knee osteoarthritis: A systematic review

Author links open overlay panel

 

Abstract

Introduction

Hyaluronic acid (HA) is a commonly prescribed intra-articular (IA) therapy for kneeosteoarthritis (OA). While a single series of IA-HA has been well studied, the efficacy and safety of repeated courses of IA-HA injection therapy in knee OA patients have not been evaluated as frequently.

Methods

A literature search was conducted using MEDLINE, EMBASE and PubMed databases. The primary outcome measure was knee pain reduction after each treatment course and/or last reported follow-up visit. Secondary outcomes were treatment-related adverse events (AEs) and serious adverse events (SAEs).

Results

A total of 17 articles (7 RCTs and 10 cohort studies) met the pre-defined inclusion criteria. Of the RCTs, six were double-blind with two trials including open label extension studies, and one was single-blind. Studies ranged from investigating a single reinjection cycle to four repeat injection cycles. Eleven studies evaluated one reinjection, five studies evaluated ≥2 repeated courses of IA-HA, and one study allowed either one or two repeated courses. All studies reported pain reduction from baseline in the IA-HA treatment group throughout the initial treatment cycle, and either sustained or further reduced pain throughout the repeated courses of treatment. The study with the longest follow-up repeated IA-HA injection every 6 months for 25 months. Pain decreased after the first course and continued to decrease until the end of the study, with an approximate 55% reduction in pain compared to baseline. Common AEs were joint swelling and arthralgia; there were no reported SAEs. All repeated courses were well tolerated, and the number of documented AEs and SAEs was similar to the primary injection regimens.

Conclusion

Repeated courses of IA-HA injections are an effective and safe treatment for knee OA. Repeat courses were demonstrated to maintain or further improve pain reduction while introducing no increased safety risk.

 

meta analysis of multiple studes show HA injection effective at reducing knee pain. 

 

NOw, if HA injections just dissapate into the tissue (whether those injection are face, knee or wherever) then why are they effective at relieving knee pain? At least some of the HA must be sticking around. 

[Destiny's Equation]

Back when I had the beginning of wrinkles (I was only 24, but my addictions did me in) I took high doses of MSM and ate lots of sulfur containing foods (one of the things sulfur does is elevate hyaluronic acid).  Within a year the wrinkles were gone.  Also I suspect that taking LEF's Cognitex during that time period helped with the sagging skin too but I don't know of any mechanism of action.