41 replies to this topic

[John250]

They finally emailed me:

<info@888vitality.com>
GMS Ribose (Glycine Methyl Sulfone Ribose) is a proprietary blend of methylated glycine as glycine complexed with methyl sulfone (MSM) in a base of D-Ribose.

Below is s link to a youtube Video by Dr Mark Hyman on Maximizing Methylation: The Key to Healthy Aging to help you understand more about Methylation.



L Glycine and glycine are typically the same but there is also the D- glycine which is very seldom used as a supplement. Most people leave off L of the glycine as that is what is used in the amino acid chart.

[brosci]

Now Foods mentions that Glycine has no asymmetric C. So, it lacks stereo and optical isomerisms: https://www.nowfoods...ne-glycine-faqs

Edited by brosci, 28 January 2019 - 07:25 PM.

[Kimer Med]

I would avoid Calcium Ascorbate. Even in moderate doses, Calcium is a cellular toxin, and should be avoided in supplement form.

 

I take and recommend plain Ascorbate, the Liposomal form, and Ascorbyl Palmitate. If you can't tolerate plain Ascorbate, then the Potassium or Magnesium salts would be my first choice for a buffered form. The Sodium salt is also a reasonable option, though not my favorite.

 

In my view, the source of the Vit C doesn't matter, nor do various common additives, such as bioflavinoids. Much more important is the purity. Thorne is my favorite in that respect, although I often take the one from Now Foods as well.

 

[brosci]

I've also heard interesting concerns about C + Fat -> https://abcnews.go.c...=4508574&page=1 It seems like ascorbyl palmitate would be sort of the ultimate c + fat combo.

[KBAnthis]

I would avoid Calcium Ascorbate. Even in moderate doses, Calcium is a cellular toxin, and should be avoided in supplement form.

 

I take and recommend plain Ascorbate, the Liposomal form, and Ascorbyl Palmitate. If you can't tolerate plain Ascorbate, then the Potassium or Magnesium salts would be my first choice for a buffered form. The Sodium salt is also a reasonable option, though not my favorite.

 

In my view, the source of the Vit C doesn't matter, nor do various common additives, such as bioflavinoids. Much more important is the purity. Thorne is my favorite in that respect, although I often take the one from Now Foods as well. with all other minerals humans need. 

I personally take mineral supplements for all minerals that humans need which includes calcium. I eat mostly plant foods, except for beef liver and cod liver oil along with some butter in moderation. When I do physical labor I can most certainly tell when I have not taken calcium, magnesium, or any of the minerals really.. There is a hunger that can not be met with extra protein in my experience. It is the cells needing the minerals. This is my opinion on the matter and must note that there is an agreed upon RDA for calcium. 

Most members of the animal kingdom that need vitamin c can make their own vitamin c. I am fairly certain that ascorbic acid and the vitamin c animals make are identical in their molecular structure.  It is called vitamin c since it was the third vitamin discovered. Vitamin p stood for paprika from what I recall in one case that was used to treat scurvy. I apologize for no references, do your own due diligence. 

[Kimer Med]

Regarding the request for references to my previous post, here's a lecture by Dr Tom Levy about the effects of Calcium on human health. He includes a number of excellent references. He is also an expert on Vit C.

 

 

[granmasutensil]

Regarding the request for references to my previous post, here's a lecture by Dr Tom Levy about the effects of Calcium on human health. He includes a number of excellent references. He is also an expert on Vit C.

 

 

Never got a chance to watch the video yet but to throw it out there Dr Gary Gordon who is an expert on toxicity of metals and chelation therapy and actually wrote the chelation protocols/ book for the US government also said something to the effect you did on calcium. But he said we are still forced to take some calcium everyday because of all the phosphorus in our diets now. So take that as you will. I assume he is referring to our food being grown in mass with fertilizers nowadays which are high in phosphorus and make the food much higher in it. He also recommends K2, low dose oral chelation daily with EDTA, and other chelators which modulate how the body processes calcium which is probably also why he isn't as worried about having some calcium.

[brosci]

Not to get off topic, but calcium is fascinating to me, since if you eat too little of it you end up increasing calcification of soft tissues by increasing parathyroid activity and the absorption of other minerals like phosphorus promoting calcification. Aside from oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, and carbon, we're packed full of calcium: https://en.wikipedia..._the_human_body so it's redistribution that seems to be an issue since there's always so much present with bones being broken down by osteoclasts whenever the body wants to ramp up calcium values. It's totally counter-intuitive, and a slight concern for me as someone who doesn't eat much dairy, often fasts, and sees this low average intake. There definitely seems to be a U-curve. (I'm very rarely over the 800mg/d mark, with many days falling under 500mg, and in general, most of my Ca is from sources with terrible bioavailability... like spinach / almonds.. or sardines, but with something like dark chocolate and coffee rich in phytates.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...62/figure/Fig3/

 

The potassium ascorbate makes sense to me from a safety stance and source of potassium, although I tend to have pretty low BP, and while practicing IF + low carb dieting, it's often sodium that I need (or, at least have no fear of increasing.)

 

I've seen sodium-ascorbate co-transporters mentioned on pubmed for helping to bring C into cells, but it's not clear to me if something like sodium-ascorbate has any benefits here over other flavors.

Edited by brosci, 30 January 2019 - 07:59 AM.

[Kimer Med]

Calcium is metabolically important, but it's also a cellular toxin, so too much can easily cause disease. It is clearly a pro-aging substance.

 

In osteoporosis, for example, Ca toxicity seems to be the main reason that osteoblasts stop producing new bone. A doc I worked with who offered IV EDTA to his patients found that when you clear away high Ca, osteoblasts often start working again.

 

Ca is present in significant quantities in our food. Veggies and meat both have lots of it, so supplementation is rarely needed.

 

One school of thought is that K2 prevents Ca from depositing in the arteries. The problem is that K2 doesn't prevent the other metabolic effects of Ca.

 

I don't go so far as a low-Ca diet, but I do try not to supplement it at all, in any form.

 

[pamojja]

Agree. Had many benefits with high dose l-ascorbic acid powder (24 g/d for 10 years). And even such a high dose it's the most easiest available (in meny markets around here) and affordable (1.95 per 100g). With any other product it would easily get the most expensive for me.

 

There is for example this one absorption study which showed no difference in serum levels between liposomal vitamin C and ordinary powder:

 

So with a single 5 g dose equal serum levels of 220 µM/L are possible. And by extrapolation from the 20g and 36g single liposomal doses 400 µM/L would be possible (usually prevented by bowel tolerance).

 

Then this study (now behind a paywall), found with 20g throughout the day even above 500 µM/L are reached:

 

 

Emphasis by me. So for the case of pharmcological/orthomolecular application, nothing is as effective as frequent very high doses of plain ascorbic acid powder. Which with any 'enhanced' product would be not affordable to me at such doses.

 

New in the press. Dr. Levy (together with Nina Mikirova and Ronald Hunninghake) finally did measure the leukocytes cell's concentration, comparing liposomal to ordinary ascorbic acid (and with hydrocortisone).

 

 

https://isom.ca/article/

 

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Summary

• Comparisons of the liposome-encapsulated and non-encapsulated (powder) ascorbate supplementations demonstrated that liposomal ascorbate intake results in longer retention of ascorbate in blood. Plasma concentrations of ascorbate remained at the level of 100% increase during 3 hours for non-encapsulated ascorbate and longer than 4.5 hours for liposomal ascorbate. The maximum percentage of ascorbate increase was the same for both formulations and reached 150%-170%.
• The concentrations of ascorbate in white blood cells were changed after intake of ascorbate in the form of non-encapsulated and encapsulated liposomal ascorbate supplementations. The average maximum increase in the concentrations of ascorbate in cells was the same for both formulations (in range 40%÷50%). The data show that liposomal ascorbate resulted in faster intake by cells. The comparison of the areas under the curve for concentrations that were higher than initial levels showed that AUC was on 50% larger for liposomal formulation in comparison with non-encapsulated ascorbate.
• The data support our hypothesis that hydrocortisone can have effect on the uptake of ascorbate by cells, when it is given as an adjuvant to ascorbate supplementation. The injection of hydrocortisone before intake of supplements resulted in more favorable percentage of intracellular ascorbate intake.
• The weakness of the study is the low number of the participants and the measurements of ascorbate concentrations in plasma and cells by a method based on the condensation reaction of dehydroascorbic with formation of colored product that was detected by fluorescence.

 

Emphasis added by me. So again, the same plasma concentrations with both 5 gram ordinary and liposomal ascorbic acid, but a little bid longer retention. Area under the curve concentration in cells 50% larger only.

[ekaitz]

When do you think is the optimal times of the day for c intake? right after workout and before meals is OK? before bed seems a good time too.

[pamojja]

Like 20 minutes before meals - when there are least digestive remains in the stomach - seems the best time for fastest absorption. And not interferring with other dietary nutrients absorbtion (iron). So also before sleep to keep some elevated serum levels through the night (a few find too stimulating). Mixing ascorbic acid powder in water with a little bicarbonate creates some mineral ascorbate, which seems to be absorbed slower, and thereby extending higher serum levels (also easier on some sensitive stomachs).

 

In my case it works wonders for rhinitis sneezing-fits. Therefore take a teaspoon right away again in a glass of water anytime this happen. With the onset of an infection (which always will cause a vocal scurvy in the infected tissue) best as fast and much as possible for one not to cause diarhea. Ideally 8g every 20 minutes. Though with infection bowel-tolerance can increase easily to 100-150 g/d, most wouldn't tolerate that much and have to adjust downwards.

 

Once I tested my bowel-tolerance for a few days, and found I could tolerate just below 50 g per day without any obvious infection. A very few can't even tolerate 5 g/d. Some would avoid ascorbic acid right arround workouts, because of fear it could blunt the adaptive response, which in my case hasn't happening.

Edited by pamojja, 26 July 2019 - 11:51 AM.