200 replies to this topic

[floweryriddle]

Glad to see this discussion is still going strong! 

I have some Uridine laying around and might try morning administration again. I have since cut out Strattera (and norepinephrine medication) completely and notice that my drive to do things is stronger than when on them. I consulted with my doc and he gave me one more month of strattera but told me to take it when needed (ie when I feel I am getting too impulsive) and if it's fine without, he will stop my script. I know I am repeating myself but yeah, impulsiveness is stronger and I am a lot more likely to forget things. Like, on Strattera I can manage my todolist app well and work through it during the day. Without Strattera I can focus on something that might not be important, and stick to it without ever thinking about the other things in my todolist. ADHD is a bitch man. 

 

My anti-depression journey has now brought me to "Sulpiride", a "selective antagonist at dopamine D2 and D3 receptors". My doc said it's often used as a aytpical antidepressant. It has very little side-effect profile and doesn't seem to mess with the brain as much as other phenethylamine inhibitors. Just started taking it, so nothing to say on it yet. 

 

Tianeptine is still nice to me, but there is definitely a rebound when I stop taking it. I will try Uridine (with the rest of Mr.Happy) instead and see what it does. 

 

Concerta didn't kill drive to exercise at all, or effect the workout negatively.  And physicality wasn't an issue either.  It just made my mood and creativity kind of negative, and perhaps something akin to that wall you first described in the initial post.  But there was no fog on Concerta and things got done and dealt with, just not as imaginatively, patiently and creatively as I would have wanted.  "Taskmaster" is pretty accurate, just tack bitchy to that on my end.  Thus far, the only thing that has negatively impacted exercise in my experience is Guanfacine, Propanalol, Clonidine, pretty much every SSRI I've tried, and now Selegiline, which I'm assuming was due to some hypotensive effect and/or serotonergic ones.  

 

 

 Have you tried reducing Concerta? I mentioned my 27mg / 18mg split in my previous posts and going down definitely helped with the taskmaster syndrome. When I want to chop through tasks fast, I take more. 

 

 

 

The theory I am still with is that a dopamine / norepinephrine imbalance might be a big part of the problem. It's interesting that some people on norepinephrine medication become more creative, while some others have the same effect on dopamine inhibitors, but a negative result on norepinephrine, which matches with how ADHD profiles are different on different people. 

 

It's of course also important to have realistic expectations and a good way to measure results. Taking medication and hoping that suddenly everything will become fine and we all turn into motivation-filled people is probably not gonna happen automagically. 

My personal benchmark is with hobbies that I know I really want to do, but end up not doing because of this 'wall'. Things that make it easier for me to get by the wall is what I'm looking for. 

[cat-nips]

Flowery, you're back! Good to hear from you.  

 

Sulpiride? I haven't even heard of that both from research or anecdotal combos.  Wow, keep us posted, as always.

 

I think the wall issue may be more of the Concerta/Strattera and that > balance of N to D, but being where you live, it's what you have to work with.  D converts to N eventually in the process, but starting that path with meds that work more significantly on N may be the wall issue there.  It's not that simple as there are areas of the brain effected in different ways and varying levels of reuptake vs. inhibition vs. release, but personally, with > N to D, I've noticed higher levels of executive function, higher planning and organization (NET), but with a dulling of creativity, and joy, in general.  But this option is probably safer (I don't remember where I read this).

 

Concerta works on both, but has higher affinity for NET and works through reuptake.  With amps, it's a different mechanism, higher D to N, but notice a lot of hyperfocus and increased creativity and idea generation (impulsivity?), and that hyperfocus can often be on the wrong things.  There could be some mania activation there as well.  I've also noticed higher D (amps) early in the day, sometimes will lead to more N later in the day possibly from the conversion process, which is when some irritability and possibly higher executive function and organization come into play.  This could play a role in the crashes that Amp users get around 3pm.  Does that happen to you?  

 

Really simplistic, so don't bash me on this.  I know there are other mechanisms of binding + different receptors targeted (glutamate, ACH, TAAR1...), but trying to match experience to theory and correlating the two so it's just a thought at this point, not even hypothetical yet.  One day I hope to be able to understand this whole thing better and maybe be able to put together gene variants with receptor variants of different types to try to determine who would benefit the most from what.  There has to be better options and I really feel that there could be.  

 

Putting an end to my misery next week and after that point, I'll most likely be looking for things to help balance the mood swings stims give me, and to help with sleep.

 

250mg Uridine potentiated Armodafinil for me, so maybe it could do the same for Concerta.  Not sure it would work with Amps though.  CILTEP was also pretty nice on occasion and gave a happy mood lift, but it requires cycling to maintain effectiveness.  I think it may be useful with Concerta as well.  

 

I wasn't aware that Concerta was splittable due to the delayed release mechanism in the coating.  

 

ADHD can be entertaining sometimes.  But the medication process and the stigmatization of it on those afflicted, is what I find the most 'bitchiest' of all.   I hope the Sulpiride helps. 

Edited by cat-nips, 14 December 2018 - 03:49 AM.

[floweryriddle]

How are you doing my fellow strugglers?

I stopped Tianeptine and had the chance to play with Uridine and the Mr. Happy stack again (minus the choline) and yeah, it makes Concerta a lot stronger. My mood was very good, but I felt jumpy, hyper and restless so I stopped it after a couple days again. I only dosed in the morning but that was already enough to get me through the day.

Sulpiride - I have no idea at all if it’s doing something. It feels like there are less depressive moments, but I couldn’t tell you if I am taking it or not.

In the end I am back with my usual candidates again: Strattera, Concerta, Tianeptine and Selegiline. I tried to space out Selegiline and Concerta, and take my Selegiline when I’m leaving work so that the small amphetamine boost is giving me some more fire when I’m at home. Seemed to work good, just can’t take it too late without risking sleep issues.

Selegiline - I still think it helps with ADHD in general, also makes times off stimulants easier and allows me to take less MPH. But I did a bit more research and it turns out Selegiline is actually scheduled here in Japan. I bought it at a normal online Japanese pharmacy that seemed pretty legit so I had really no idea that importing it is actually forbidden. Whoops. Still have enough to get me through most of the next year though but it also makes carrying it around more risky.

Strattera - Can’t make my mind up. If I don’t take it I feel hyper, very impulsive and chaotic. Like a sense of order is missing from my life. If I take it, I feel like I am planning too much and not actually doing things. I am experimenting with on and off times and try to get a clearer picture of what it’s actually doing and when. Starting to take it again from today to see what happens. 

Tianeptine - I stopped to try other things, but think I will start again going forward as it gave me the best results so far. The crashes are annoying when a dosage is forgotten and the legal status is another thing. I talked with my doctor about it and he said it’s not possible to prescribe in Japan. Starting to take it again from today. 


General check in: Feeling very chaotic. My previous drive to do things went the opposite way and now I am just lazing around on my bed. The “wall” definitely got stronger and it also feels like my ADHD symptoms got worse. The only things I can suspect is that strattera is now completely out of my body and my NET levels normalized, that Sulpiride is subtly changing things for the worse, or that I got more used to Concerta and need a higher dosage.

 

Other thoughts: Same as previously, I still suspect Dopamine / Norepinephrine as the culprit. Tianeptine seemed to give the best results so I'm back at the stack that I had when I posted about some success. I am hoping I can replicate that. 

(Another small thought at the back of my head, since looking at my post history I seem to bounce between success and not success is some sort of bipolar disorder. It's probably just because of the substance swapping, but don't want to rule it out.)

Edited by floweryriddle, 26 December 2018 - 05:45 AM.

[MichaelFocus22]

 Very interesting, like yourself, I decided to go back on my medication and it's worlds of difference even after 2 months off of it. Having a full gas tank is very nice. I'm interested in your usage of straterra  and as to why your taking it to begin with. Secondly, how are you managing the zombie effect of concerta  and what have  you found works best for you? From my perspective, straterra seems a bit excessive because your only putting  a further drain on your nonerephrine  2 reuptake inhibitors.Thirdly, are these two stimulants complementary for one another. For me concerta, is typically enough along with my new ability to be able to integrate my copying mechanisms consistently normally allows to easily reach 95% of neurotypical functioning form an execution perspective. So within this respect, I'm wondering why you are taking all these excessive drugs. I'd probably only take these, if I was still in the Bay Area. Esepecially, since it's an implicit necessity of being able to compete against neurotypical monkeys.  My new concerta focus has allowed me to read through a 1300 page 1700's old english book with ease.   It's almost disgusting how much I can do with the ability to focus. I'm already 150 pages in only 2 days.  Also, are you titrating your dose to so you get break periods and allow for your neurotransmitters to refresh themselves. It's important that you don't cause a burnout. I had this similar issue when i toke dexerdrine, it burned my neurotransmitters and concerta didn't work for quite a while.  Anyways, UNMEDICATED ADHD= susicide. I look forward to your new insights, I will probably integrating a minor stack with my concerta. 

Edited by DrewMichael21, 26 December 2018 - 05:39 AM.

[mono]

Well a little update on uridine from me. After a few weeks of continuous usage I developed a tolerance and barely feel anything at all from taking the daily uridine. I even tried upping the dose to 1gram and 2 grams just to see if that would make a difference an it didn't. It is unfortunate as I read many good things about the mr happy stack but it seems that it just isn't for me.

[CWF1986]

SOB, FML... I've become hooked on that selegiline/PEA combo hardcore.... multiple multi-day benders in a single week.....  I was just curious... That's all...

 

I did a fair number of various other drugs of many different classes recreationally way back in the day but never got hooked on anything... This stuff is way different and far more sinister.

[floweryriddle]

SOB, FML... I've become hooked on that selegiline/PEA combo hardcore.... multiple multi-day benders in a single week.....  I was just curious... That's all...

 

I did a fair number of various other drugs of many different classes recreationally way back in the day but never got hooked on anything... This stuff is way different and far more sinister.

 

Ouch that sucks to hear! What dosage of each were you on? 

I have some PEA on the way as well but that makes me reconsider touching it 

[CWF1986]

Ouch that sucks to hear! What dosage of each were you on? 

I have some PEA on the way as well but that makes me reconsider touching it 

 

I'm in so deep i'm not even really paying much attention to any of that...

[mono]

What works for me may not work for you but I have been in this situation a few times before..

I normally just flush my stash down the toilet and then make sure I don't order anymore.

If you end up ordering more then at least you get some time, days, weeks off the substance and by that time you normally have more clarity.

Or you just run out of cash and then you can't order anymore anyway.

This is how I've gotten out of some addiction in the past and as long as I'm careful I find it still has a way of working for me to this day.

Hope it might help CWF1986.

[jacobjerondin]

Watch out for the sulpiride OP, I personally ordered some amisulpride which I believe is a better version of that stuff. I take it in very low doses (25-50mg) to block dopamine presynaptic receptors, and it works well for this. However, it also increases prolactin significantly, which makes me lazy and anhedonic (really unmotivated I mean) over time, so I don't use it too frequently. Apparently intranasal use can avoid this prolactin spike tho, but I haven't tried that.

 

My main warning to you is to watch out for the prolactin increase. Also, I believe that taking sulpiride will be counter productive in doses above the equivalent of 25 - 50mg (it'll make your lack of motivation worse, not better, afaik).

[floweryriddle]

Watch out for the sulpiride OP, I personally ordered some amisulpride which I believe is a better version of that stuff. I take it in very low doses (25-50mg) to block dopamine presynaptic receptors, and it works well for this. However, it also increases prolactin significantly, which makes me lazy and anhedonic (really unmotivated I mean) over time, so I don't use it too frequently. Apparently intranasal use can avoid this prolactin spike tho, but I haven't tried that.

 

My main warning to you is to watch out for the prolactin increase. Also, I believe that taking sulpiride will be counter productive in doses above the equivalent of 25 - 50mg (it'll make your lack of motivation worse, not better, afaik).

 

These kind of replies are exactly why I am posting my progress here. I would have never learned about this, so thanks a lot!

I'll look into it but what you're saying matches a bit with what I have been reporting here anyway. 

[cat-nips]

Anyone have any success with emoxypine as an stim adjunct?  

 

Flowery, have you tried phenylpiracetam/pramiracetam?  Found a little synergy in a phenyl/pramiracetam stack that I found to be the most helpful other than prescription stim treatment.  My racetam trials found that phenyl had a nice little mood boost @ 100-200, stacked with Pramiracetam at 400mg, 2-3 times per day.  Probably not as significant as Tia though, but maybe it would play nicely with MPH.  Phenyl covered mood/motivation and Prami covered focus and impulsivity.  I capsulized everything and was pretty meticulous about dosing.  In some ways it was better, and I'll eventually post about it more thoroughly.  Not sure how long it would be sustainable, however, and still, prescription stims are way easier and much more effective in the long term if used properly?  

 

Personally, PEA is something I'd stay far away from.  The risk/reward ratio is too high and I've read at least a handful of very extreme reports of how it overtook and ruined lives in a short amount of time in a similar way that a cocaine addiction might do so (hourly redosing, extremely rapid raising of tolerance, etc.).  

 

I was traveling for about 2 weeks and Uridine allowed me to get off modafinil completely and sustain on that racetam/nootropic stack for a week where I actually chose to stay off any stim treatments.  I didn't expect that.  The last few days, I ran out of my racetam stack and went back to Dexedrine and haven't slept in a few days, even on a fairly low dose (10mg, twice a day).  That being said, my entire world made sense again after the first 10mg dose and am now wondering how I hack the sleep issue and utilize other nootropics to keep tolerance in check and dosages low.    

 

For those on stims: how do you sleep?

 

  

Edited by cat-nips, 31 December 2018 - 10:00 AM.

[Keizo]

I have tried emoxypine both IM and tablets, sometimes together with Methylphenidate. In the beginning when taking emoxypine I thought the effects were very obvious but I'm not sure anymore. I do think it has a slight anti-anxiety effect at the very least. No obvious problems combining them from my experience.

 

" how do you sleep?" better than ever. taking up to 30mg methylphenidate per day. 

Edited by Keizo, 02 January 2019 - 06:23 AM.

[MichaelFocus22]

Out of curiosity, to other Concerta users, do you experience raised aggression? I find I'm way more competitive and super aggressive which I love. It feels like the real me.

[floweryriddle]

Anyone have any success with emoxypine as an stim adjunct?

Flowery, have you tried phenylpiracetam/pramiracetam? Found a little synergy in a phenyl/pramiracetam stack that I found to be the most helpful other than prescription stim treatment. My racetam trials found that phenyl had a nice little mood boost @ 100-200, stacked with Pramiracetam at 400mg, 2-3 times per day. Probably not as significant as Tia though, but maybe it would play nicely with MPH. Phenyl covered mood/motivation and Prami covered focus and impulsivity. I capsulized everything and was pretty meticulous about dosing. In some ways it was better, and I'll eventually post about it more thoroughly. Not sure how long it would be sustainable, however, and still, prescription stims are way easier and much more effective in the long term if used properly?

Personally, PEA is something I'd stay far away from. The risk/reward ratio is too high and I've read at least a handful of very extreme reports of how it overtook and ruined lives in a short amount of time in a similar way that a cocaine addiction might do so (hourly redosing, extremely rapid raising of tolerance, etc.).

I was traveling for about 2 weeks and Uridine allowed me to get off modafinil completely and sustain on that racetam/nootropic stack for a week where I actually chose to stay off any stim treatments. I didn't expect that. The last few days, I ran out of my racetam stack and went back to Dexedrine and haven't slept in a few days, even on a fairly low dose (10mg, twice a day). That being said, my entire world made sense again after the first 10mg dose and am now wondering how I hack the sleep issue and utilize other nootropics to keep tolerance in check and dosages low.

For those on stims: how do you sleep?

I played a bit with Racetams but no success. Even Phenylpiracetam in higher dosages didn’t do anything so I think I’m just not a responder.
I wanted to try Colouracetam but didn’t realize that Japan being Japan put Racetams on the no-import list so the order (including reshipments) never made it through.

Sleeping is never a problem for me on stimulants. I take my Concerta around 10am and by 10pm it’s usually already over. When I feel a little on edge I usually take some Tryptophan to calm myself down.


For PEA, mine is still not here but reading up on it, the addiction potential is through the roof. There are people that are balancing it quite well with smaller dosages now and then, and for these people it’s a similar effect than amphetamines.
Nevertheless I ordered some Phenylalanine and will start with that first to test waters.


TIA has started giving me weird effects these days. Whenever I dosed (from my self-made solution with distilled water), I noticed extreme sadness kicking in roughly an hour later. I’m not sure if my solution went bad, or if it’s just a weird time with new year and all, but the past few days it almost consistently triggered a depressive episode that just made me want to lay on my bed so I put it on hold for now.

Sulpiride I stopped as well and some of the fatigue seemed to have disappeared. I’m still a lot in lazymode and have trouble starting tasks that previously were no problem. Even simple things like standing up cleaning the dishes feel like they felt before I got medicated alltogether which definitely wasn’t the case before (pretty sure ADHD folks know what I mean).
I have a doc appointment next week and see what else he can throw at me.

Still means I’m back at square one for now with just Selegiline, Methylphenidate and Strattera (<- which I still didn’t make up my mind if it’s good to keep or not).

ADHD really is a constant battle. You adjust one screw and something else goes out of control. It’s very hard to find something that just fits.
It’s currently winter holiday season in my company and it’s worse than ever. There is close to no self-motivation to do anything, just day after day wasting time.

I’ll report back once my Phenylalanine arrived (probably tomorrow).

Out of curiosity, to other Concerta users, do you experience raised aggression? I find I'm way more competitive and super aggressive which I love. It feels like the real me.

No, never had any of that, but I read from reports that it can have that effect in people. Maybe your dosage is too high?

[MichaelFocus22]

No it's actually only 27 mg and it's more effective than my 36 mg which did nothing which is paradoxical.

[CWF1986]

What works for me may not work for you but I have been in this situation a few times before..

I normally just flush my stash down the toilet and then make sure I don't order anymore.

If you end up ordering more then at least you get some time, days, weeks off the substance and by that time you normally have more clarity.

Or you just run out of cash and then you can't order anymore anyway.

This is how I've gotten out of some addiction in the past and as long as I'm careful I find it still has a way of working for me to this day.

Hope it might help CWF1986.

 

I appreciate the well wishes.  I really do.

 

Fortunately, I have a supportive family I'm very close to.  I talked with them about it and ways we could keep myself accountable without invading my space/boundaries.

 

When I posted earlier, I was at day 3-4 of a 5 day binge with zero sleep and very little food and water.  But I'm doing much better now.

 

For those considering PEA, I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

Back in my early college days I dabbled and experimented with hard drugs ranging from meth, coke, X, benzos, opoids, and a few different psychadelics and none of them got me even close to hooked.  

 

So I figured PEA would be the same.  But this PEA stuff did it when nothing else did.  Not only that, but it had me hardcore binging.  Not to mention, it's so cheap and available.  

[cat-nips]

Best wishes, CFW.  Thanks for sharing your experience so that others can consider it and make more informed choices.  For those on stims, it's harder to quantify what's safe and what's not because we're all somewhat used to balancing the meds and think we won't be affected in the same ways.  But even for us, there is a definite line that when crossed becomes way too dangerous.  

 

I dabbled in the harder substances as well in my twenties, before treated for ADHD, and battled various addictions for a few years.  It wasn't an easy road back.  Hopefully yours will be easier as it doesn't seem as if you were using PEA for too long.  I'm happy you were able to recognize and stop.

 

Feeling very saddened and remorseful.  New Year's Eve, my brother-in-law overdosed on Heroin.  He passed away.  Everyone suspected, but no one wanted to believe it or do anything about it and now it's way too late.  I guess we all (himself included), thought he'd be ok too, as this wasn't his first round with opioid addiction.  He denied it to everyone who confronted him about it.  But the signs were becoming pretty apparent and finally, there was a needle and then he took a hot shower and collapsed and stopped breathing or his heart gave out.  Still waiting on final reports. 

 

I wish I could have known him better and been able to talk to him about it.  I don't have words to express all the remorse I feel over not trying harder to reach out to him.

 

 

Edited by cat-nips, 05 January 2019 - 05:47 PM.

[CWF1986]

Best wishes, CFW.  Thanks for sharing your experience so that others can consider it and make more informed choices.  For those on stims, it's harder to quantify what's safe and what's not because we're all somewhat used to balancing the meds and think we won't be affected in the same ways.  But even for us, there is a definite line that when crossed becomes way too dangerous.  

 

I dabbled in the harder substances as well in my twenties, before treated for ADHD, and battled various addictions for a few years.  It wasn't an easy road back.  Hopefully yours will be easier as it doesn't seem as if you were using PEA for too long.  I'm happy you were able to recognize and stop.

 

Feeling very saddened and remorseful.  New Year's Eve, my brother-in-law overdosed on Heroin.  He passed away.  Everyone suspected, but no one wanted to believe it or do anything about it and now it's way too late.  I guess we all (himself included), thought he'd be ok too, as this wasn't his first round with opioid addiction.  He denied it to everyone who confronted him about it.  But the signs were becoming pretty apparent and finally, there was a needle and then he took a hot shower and collapsed and stopped breathing or his heart gave out.  Still waiting on final reports. 

 

I wish I could have known him better and been able to talk to him about it.  I don't have words to express all the remorse I feel over not trying harder to reach out to him.

 

I'm truly very sorry about that :(

 

I wish I had something profound or more comforting to say... but I honestly can't imagine...

 

The one thing I know about early unexpected death of loved ones is that things never go back the way they were, but you work to find to a new normal.  Best of luck to you and your family.

[cat-nips]

Thank you.  Best wishes going forward to a happy and productive 2019.  

[Keizo]

Out of curiosity, to other Concerta users, do you experience raised aggression? I find I'm way more competitive and super aggressive which I love. It feels like the real me.

Yup. From time to time. I also experience it mostly positive. (Not using specifically concerta right now but various ritalin forms.)

Edited by Keizo, 06 January 2019 - 05:39 PM.

[floweryriddle]

Guys don’t underestimate PEA + Selegiline. I tried Phenylalanine + Selgiline and it made me a little more agitated and awake, so I thought I am safe for PEA. I took a 250mg capsule didn’t feel much, took another one after 30 minutes. And holy balls this stuff creeps up and giives you all of a sudden massive euphoria and bliss. As I’m writing this I’m very very high, even with just 5mg of selegiline all few days.

I completely agree with CWF1986, stay way from PEA + Selegiline especially if you have an addictive personality. It does nothing for ADHD and motivation besides makes you high as ballls. Very dangerous combination.

Edited by floweryriddle, 09 January 2019 - 01:42 PM.

[floweryriddle]

With this I am for now out of ideas and will stick to the things that have at least been working somewhat for me so far (that I keep on repeating in my replies). I’ll see if my doc has anything smart to say in my next session.

But I think Pheylalanine (not PEA) with Selegiline might still be worth looking at, especially when going down the depression theory:

L-deprenyl plus L-phenylalanine in the treatment of depression.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6425455

Rapid treatment of depression with selegiline-phenylalanine combination
https://www.research...e_combination_1


Then nothing new really but:

Motivation Deficit in ADHD is Associated with Dysfunction of the Dopamine Reward Pathway
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3010326/

Edited by floweryriddle, 09 January 2019 - 11:27 PM.

[MichaelFocus22]

I'm not sure why you keep experimenting with new drugs, if you have a consistent reigmen or the so-called sweet spot then you shouldn't really need to keep fucking with it. It seems almost kind of dumb no offense, everytime I did this something went wrong but this is just from my own experience. If you solve the problem of CONCERTA, limbic system suppression or overactivitity of the amgydala with a certain chemical while maintaining high levels of dopamine stimulation within the PFC(Prefrontal Cortex) then this would be of intrigue. As of now, I become very aggressive and way more competitive, Which I suspect is more of my natural personality that shows itself because I'm finally able to work towards  a long term type of goal. which can be constructively useful within this perspective.  So, I believe ADHD definitely afflicts and creates depression of your own personality or real personality as I like to call it. The only observation, I've noticed with concerta is that the side effects seem to taper off to a solid medium, but it's still ideal to have MAXIMIUM focus with as little zombie and maximum personality intact. Obviously, I've yet to report on this officially, sense I have to deal with some stupid bullshit testing with neurotypicals but that's another story. If you have any insights into the zombie effect, feel free to enlighten me. 

[floweryriddle]

I'm not sure why you keep experimenting with new drugs, if you have a consistent reigmen or the so-called sweet spot then you shouldn't really need to keep fucking with it. It seems almost kind of dumb no offense, everytime I did this something went wrong but this is just from my own experience. If you solve the problem of CONCERTA, limbic system suppression or overactivitity of the amgydala with a certain chemical while maintaining high levels of dopamine stimulation within the PFC(Prefrontal Cortex) then this would be of intrigue. As of now, I become very aggressive and way more competitive, Which I suspect is more of my natural personality that shows itself because I'm finally able to work towards a long term type of goal. which can be constructively useful within this perspective. So, I believe ADHD definitely afflicts and creates depression of your own personality or real personality as I like to call it. The only observation, I've noticed with concerta is that the side effects seem to taper off to a solid medium, but it's still ideal to have MAXIMIUM focus with as little zombie and maximum personality intact. Obviously, I've yet to report on this officially, sense I have to deal with some stupid bullshit testing with neurotypicals but that's another story. If you have any insights into the zombie effect, feel free to enlighten me.

No offense taken! It’s great to have a conversation.

Part is of course also curiosity (looking at PEA) but the main reason is because this motivation issue is a real problem in adhd people that current medication isn’t really tackling yet. Just browsing the internet gives you countless reports of people struggling with this despite being medicated.

I for my part don’t want to live a life in where I have to fight with myself over small tasks and can’t start things I genuinely want to do, then bite myself because later of it. Researching and experimenting is giving me hope and lets me understand myself better and better, and by the looks of it I’m not alone.

So far I haven’t found something that works good enough that I am happy with. Selegiline was a good find because I was able to cut my stimulant usage down. That made me a bit more comfortable for the long term.
Tianeptine was another good find but is inconsistent for me.
Strattera helps with adhd symptoms but might (or might not) make motivation worse.

In the end even doctors are ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and just throw things at you to see what sticks.


But yes I’ll be taking a break for now for a bit.



Can you explain what exactly you mean with zombie effect? A numbness sensation? That was for me when my dosage was too high. It also helps to eat before taking concerta, drink lots of waters and watch your calories (I’m drinking protein shakes during the day for that).
Also take breaks. Methylphenidate blocks dopamine reuptake so the longer you do things that release dopamine consecutively, the more it accumulates and worsens the effect from my experience.

[MichaelFocus22]

No offense taken! It’s great to have a conversation.

Part is of course also curiosity (looking at PEA) but the main reason is because this motivation issue is a real problem in adhd people that current medication isn’t really tackling yet. Just browsing the internet gives you countless reports of people struggling with this despite being medicated.

I for my part don’t want to live a life in where I have to fight with myself over small tasks and can’t start things I genuinely want to do, then bite myself because later of it. Researching and experimenting is giving me hope and lets me understand myself better and better, and by the looks of it I’m not alone.

So far I haven’t found something that works good enough that I am happy with. Selegiline was a good find because I was able to cut my stimulant usage down. That made me a bit more comfortable for the long term.
Tianeptine was another good find but is inconsistent for me.
Strattera helps with adhd symptoms but might (or might not) make motivation worse.

In the end even doctors are ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and just throw things at you to see what sticks.


But yes I’ll be taking a break for now for a bit.



Can you explain what exactly you mean with zombie effect? A numbness sensation? That was for me when my dosage was too high. It also helps to eat before taking concerta, drink lots of waters and watch your calories (I’m drinking protein shakes during the day for that).
Also take breaks. Methylphenidate blocks dopamine reuptake so the longer you do things that release dopamine consecutively, the more it accumulates and worsens the effect from my experience.

     

               Then I will save you the trouble, because of my own surprise most the longecity forum hasn't been following the updates of genetic modification which is of concern for me because this revolutionary technology that I believe you and  I share or desire. It's called CRISPR and I suspect if you have a genetic form of ADHD, then it will be ABLE TO BE CURED, by essentially injecting a virus into your body and that virus will inject the genetically modified gene to the correct coding sequence to where you are no longer underaroused no longer, this would be the implicit hope and I recommend you investigate into it. They've already done trials on dogs with muscular dsytrophy and found that they had a 90% remission of new muscular density and development. This new treatment can effectively cure any disease. My only grief is that the current treatment can only target 1 gene at a time and I suspect ADHD has thousands of different genes that might be impaired. Yes, your observations are much similar to mine. I don't respond well to classical stimulants because of my extra-sensitive CNS(Central nervious system), thus, I drank one cup of coffee and was incredibly jittery so that seems to send me unto spirals.  Yes, I've found this to be the same for myself for 1st 4 days I become very aggresive and then it appears to deeolve into increasing nihiilism and rage but this is over a long period of time. Then again, nothing is really perfect I suppose so we all have to make tradeoffs and this is one of them unfortunately. Eating food definietly delays the assimilation of the  stimulant into your CNS and probably smoothens it out which is what has happend for me in my experience. Drinking water just speeds up dissolving it and shortens the half-life of the medication. The most optimal thing you can do, is sip a little bit of water throughout the day. The zombie effect, is a very common occurence where your limbic system or your center of emotions becomes suppressed because of overeactivity of the d2 and d3 receptors in the limbic system which causes a suppression of your emotions and why most people report feeling robotic. The problem with, most stimulants is that they target the ENTIRE BRAIN instead of the impaired areas of the brain which is the PFC, which is the area that is most underaroused.  Basically, if your  a zombie you lose your personality and become unable to socialize effectively which IS IMPORTANT to climbiing the social ladder and other things ofcourse. Obviously, I'm at the bottom of the social ladder for obvious reasons but that's a different matter. My method is 5/2 5/2 and 4/3 and 4/3, so that your brain never finds a routine period to build tolerance which seems to be working fairly well for  me. My ADHD is very strange because a LOWER dosage is MORE EFFECTIVE than a higher dosage and I didn't respond will to dexerdrine, it made me act strange and make me cough horribly. It also caused me to go into reverse puberty. I'm getting tested, so this will further elaborate unto my diagnosis. I has classical tourette syndrome as a kid with high impulsivity, so I'm a unique ADHD-PI case or an SCT person, as Dr. Barkley has theorized, yet I'm not really sluggish as they claim.  Anyways, if you do solve the zombie effect then pm me, you will have helped millions of people.  I hate the zombie effect but I still have to pay my bills and function well, so it's a tradeoff. I reccomend you stop fucking with your STACK once you settle on  good routine. It's important to get into a good medication habit. I do sympathize, with you wanting to do what you want without fighting yourself this is one of the evils of ADHD, but unlike most of the nihilistic Longecity members, I'm hopeful for CRISPR and it's development unto a cure. Assuming it's ALL GENETIC and NOT brain damage if it's brain damage we are fucked. Perhaps, my last question is , have you been incapable of mastering anything? This is what I've noticed after doing something long enough you stop improving no matter what you do. It seems to be a trend among ALL ADHD people is we are GENERALISTS. That is all.

[floweryriddle]

This is going to be my last update on this thread for a while unless I run into something bigger and worth mentioning. I went back to my previous stack of Concerta + Strattera + Tianeptine + Selegiline and the effects that I posted about previously actually came back. I feel very leveled, in control, happy and am less hard on me. I feel like I can do things I want to do more easily and the brightened mood has me motivated to try new things. It’s not perfect yet, but still the best thing I found so far and what I’ll be sticking with.

Selegiline I am thinking of cutting and see if I can keep the effects without it.

I’m a little worried about long-term sustainability of Tianeptine and that the effects will fade over time. It’s still classified as a tricyclic and getting off these things after years of use seems to be a different nightmare in itself.
When I forget a dosage I can also feel some sort of rebound / crash in my mood which is a little annoying but I can live with.
It’d be very interesting to find substances that are like Tianeptine but maybe prescribable where I live so I can talk to a professional for some peace of mind

For archiving sake, my current dosages:
Concerta: 27mg (+ occasionally 18mg)
Strattera: 25mg
Selegiline: 5mg
Tianeptine sodium: 12.5mg / 3 times daily

[MichaelFocus22]

  I will continue to observe this effect, I'm intrigued your zombie effect hasn't gone to such an extreme level yet. Perhaps, you might have a different genetic form of ADHD, as their appears to be many different variances that cause ADHD. Some individuals report being more introverted with ADD medication while other individuals report the opposite effect, so this may of be intrigue to discover.

[CWF1986]

I'm doing a ton better now.

 

All I've got to add is that I'm having a lot of luck DLPA.  Apparently, I just needed to take it regularly.  I do 375mg daily as soon as I wake up.  It seems to help with mood and energy and levels out the adderall some makes the therapeutic effects of the adderall consistent day to day as opposed to working well some days and not others.  

 

So that just leaves me taking:

Meds-

Adderall

Nortriptline

Supps-

DLPA

ZMA

 

Anyone else heard of ASMR?  I've been finding it really helpful when I feel scatterbrained or overwhelmed.  It's also real helpful when I start experiencing a lot of rumination or worry.  I listen/watch a vid and then I put my thoughts together and feel ready to do what I need again.  

 

In the discussions section of this paper, it compares ASMR to music therapy and mindfulness therapy and it helps as much as the music therapy and more than mindfulness therapy using heart rate reduction as the measure.  

[MichaelFocus22]

I'm doing a ton better now.

 

All I've got to add is that I'm having a lot of luck DLPA.  Apparently, I just needed to take it regularly.  I do 375mg daily as soon as I wake up.  It seems to help with mood and energy and levels out the adderall some makes the therapeutic effects of the adderall consistent day to day as opposed to working well some days and not others.  

 

So that just leaves me taking:

Meds-

Adderall

Nortriptline

Supps-

DLPA

ZMA

 

Anyone else heard of ASMR?  I've been finding it really helpful when I feel scatterbrained or overwhelmed.  It's also real helpful when I start experiencing a lot of rumination or worry.  I listen/watch a vid and then I put my thoughts together and feel ready to do what I need again.  

 

In the discussions section of this paper, it compares ASMR to music therapy and mindfulness therapy and it helps as much as the music therapy and more than mindfulness therapy using heart rate reduction as the measure.  

 

              All the time and only at night so I can get to sleep. I would be aware of what type you watch sense the majority of it has become sexually perverted.  I will probably stop watching it because ASMR has more to do with a lack of intimacy and has nothing really to do with ADHD at least for me it doesn't . It used to allow me to fall alseep immediately and I could drift away and yes it doesn't shut down my mind so that I can stop thinking about unimportant things and I especially hate the part where it takes over an hour for me to fall asleep and then I just get annoyed. Now it seems I only sleep like in burst of 2 to 3 hours depending upon the day. I don't really use it to treat ADHD because it doesn't nothing for it anyways. It just gets rid of the temporary feelings of loneliness that I occasionally feel and  tempers my anxiety  but I will probably phase this out next, because it's simply a crutch just like anything else.