1033 replies to this topic

[sub7]

On the contrary, the NAMPT benefits are achieved at nanogram nicotine levels and independent of its known effects on the nicotine acetylcholine receptor. So, you'd want a much lower dose than 20mg, I expect. 

 

hmmmm very very good news

[dlewis1453]

On the contrary, the NAMPT benefits are achieved at nanogram nicotine levels and independent of its known effects on the nicotine acetylcholine receptor. So, you'd want a much lower dose than 20mg, I expect. 

 

How do you plan to microdose your nicotine, QuestforLife? 

[QuestforLife]

How do you plan to microdose your nicotine, QuestforLife? 

 

It is very finger in the air at this point. You could try 1 or 2mg nicotine lozenge; divide further if you are worried.

 

Early results: increased metabolism and some weight loss. Joint issues from persistent NMN use seem reduced. I wonder if these issues were caused by elevated nicotinamide?

[dlewis1453]

Interesting. Please keep us updated on any changes you notice from your nicotine microdosing. I am tempted to start as well, but I would use a very low dose of 250 mcg. I will buy some 1 mg nicotine lozenges and cut them with a pill cutter into quarters.

 

That is interesting that you noticed reduced joint issues. Do you notice any muscle weakness?  All this time we have assumed that muscle and joint soreness was caused by increased levels of mito-fission driven by the increase in the nad+/nadh ratio, but could it be that the soreness was a side effect of excess nicotinamide and not a result of the mito-fission itself? 

 

 

Edited by dlewis1453, 13 November 2024 - 09:49 PM.

[QuestforLife]

That is interesting that you noticed reduced joint issues. Do you notice any muscle weakness?  All this time we have assumed that muscle and joint soreness was caused by increased levels of mito-fission driven by the increase in the nad+/nadh ratio, but could it be that the soreness was a side effect of excess nicotinamide and not a result of the mito-fission itself? 

 

Yes, we always assumed it was reduction in mito numbers, which affects tendons more as they have less than muscles. But I am not noticing those issues so much anymore. No muscle weakness that I have noticed.

 

The main difference I've noticed is that nicotine really revs up your metabolism and makes you lose weight. Not really suprising, just look at smokers. I think this is very much a case of the dose makes the poison, however, and every individual will have to tailor their dosage to best suit them. Before adding this to my protocol I had decided to lose weight and cut my calories accordingly, with a loss of a couple of kilograms. Since adding nicotine I have found I need to eat more, but my weight has not increased, in fact it has continued to slowly decline. 

 

I warn people now that nicotine is mildly additive! I found myself gradually escalating the dose until I starting crashing after my third dose of the day. I then scaled back to taking it 1-2 times/day and was fine. I try and stop it altogether for 1-2 days/week.

 

This week I have run out of NMN so I am doing the protocol without it. I wonder if elevated NAMPT is all we need? I have ordered some NR (NMN is not so easy to get anymore, I assume that is D.Sinclair's work), so that will be another variation to try,.

[dlewis1453]

How did you decide on that dosage of Nicotine? Someone on reddit who was taking microdoses of nicotine for NAD+ purposes had this to say about the paper you shared:

 

 

 

The gist of the article is that at the right dose, nicotine becomes a NAD+ booster. If you use too much, it loses its NAD+ boosting effect. I did some arithmetic and concluded that the sweet spot for humans is one 4 mg nicotine tablet spread out over a 15 day period

 

I have not dug deep in to the paper yet, but have you came across information in the paper suggesting that nicotine loses its NAD+ boosting effect at too high of a dose?

This reddit user's estimated ideal dose comes out to about 250 mcg per day, which coincidentally is the amount I was planning to take to minimize stimulation of my nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. 

 

This reddit user experienced lots of energy but also had bad effects on sleep. 

 

 

After about 6 weeks, I started to have sleep problems. I was sleeping a lot less, but I wasn't tired from lack of sleep. My energy levels and mental clarity was as good or better than before I started the nicotine. I then stopped using the nicotine for a short period of time. Once my sleep started to go back to normal, I restarted the nicotine. The same thing happened, and I then decided to stop again. The number of hours slept went back to normal. The only problem is that my sleep cycle has shifted 12 hours forward. And I just can't get back to normal.

https://www.reddit.c..._a_nad_booster/

[QuestforLife]

How did you decide on that dosage of Nicotine? Someone on reddit who was taking microdoses of nicotine for NAD+ purposes had this to say about the paper you shared:

 

 

I have not dug deep in to the paper yet, but have you came across information in the paper suggesting that nicotine loses its NAD+ boosting effect at too high of a dose?

This reddit user's estimated ideal dose comes out to about 250 mcg per day, which coincidentally is the amount I was planning to take to minimize stimulation of my nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. 

 

This reddit user experienced lots of energy but also had bad effects on sleep. 

 

https://www.reddit.c..._a_nad_booster/

 

Well I haven't given a dosage. It is up to everyone to decide on what is best for them. 

 

The paper seemed to find 10ng/ml dosing was optimal in cells, but they used 2ug/ml in drinking water for mice . How many mls of water do mice drink a day? I think about 6. So that's 12ug. If we assume they weight about 30g, I am about 266x heavier, but with a 12x slower metabolism. That is 266ug/day. So a quarter of a 1mg tab seems about right.

 

But I am leery of believing optimal dosage based on figures for cells when benefits peak and then caused harm beyond that: normally that is just because you are poisoning cells. I doubt that would happen in a body, they'd be some compensatory adaptation and clearance. So I think you'd be safe going higher. But that is just my opinion. 

Edited by QuestforLife, 14 November 2024 - 07:03 PM.

[QuestforLife]

It is probably worth also mentioning that the mice would not drink their entire water in one go. 

[sub7]

. Before adding this to my protocol I had decided to lose weight and cut my calories accordingly, with a loss of a couple of kilograms. Since adding nicotine I have found I need to eat more, but my weight has not increased, in fact it has continued to slowly decline. 

 

 

and the above mentioned effect has occured at what dose per day? (and how many days at said dose did it take to notice this?)

[QuestforLife]

and the above mentioned effect has occured at what dose per day? (and how many days at said dose did it take to notice this?)

 

Weight loss was prior to any use of nicotine. Continued lower weight maintenance on increased calories is hard to pin down on nicotine use, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have tried various doses, and have been titrating the dose down, to see whether there really is a inflection point at lower doses, but with better results - or whether, as I suspect, this is due to intentional cell culture overdosing. But even if there is no obvious sweet spot, it is well known that nicotine has an effect on reducing weight or reducing appetite. It is an open question at this point whether this is due to NAMPT effects or acetylcholine receptors, as is seen on higher (normal) dosage. I am sceptical of the claims in the paper that nicotine can cause diabetes. But caution is warranted.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Re nicotine and diabetes:

 

Can nicotine cause diabetes?

 

perplexity AI will answer and provide links to substantiate its answers. (Clickable links are the grayed discs enclosing a number at the ends of the statements. Gray will turn blue when the mouse cursor is on the disc.).

 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 19 November 2024 - 10:39 AM.

[dlewis1453]

Weight loss was prior to any use of nicotine. Continued lower weight maintenance on increased calories is hard to pin down on nicotine use, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have tried various doses, and have been titrating the dose down, to see whether there really is a inflection point at lower doses, but with better results - or whether, as I suspect, this is due to intentional cell culture overdosing. But even if there is no obvious sweet spot, it is well known that nicotine has an effect on reducing weight or reducing appetite. It is an open question at this point whether this is due to NAMPT effects or acetylcholine receptors, as is seen on higher (normal) dosage. I am sceptical of the claims in the paper that nicotine can cause diabetes. But caution is warranted.

 

 

This human study found that intravenous infusion of a relatively low dose of nicotine (0.5 µg/kg/min for 30 min, so about 1 mg for an average sized male) did not alter plasma insulin levels in healthy nonsmokers. 

 

In Another human study, short-term nicotine treatment with a transdermal 14mg nicotine patch did not alter glucose or insulin levels or insulin sensitivity in healthy volunteers who were smokers. 

[Castiel]

 

 

This week I have run out of NMN so I am doing the protocol without it. I wonder if elevated NAMPT is all we need? I have ordered some NR (NMN is not so easy to get anymore, I assume that is D.Sinclair's work), so that will be another variation to try,.

 

Have you considered nicotinic acid, niacin?   Antiaging youtuber Michael Lustgarten found that around 60mg iirc of niacin achieved similar nad test results to 1000mg of nmn, iirc.  50mg, did not raise nad.  Also some research suggests nmn and nr are converted into niacin in the gut.

 

Given that info, I had started taking 100mg niacin, a bit higher but just to be on the safe side.   It is very cheap.   Though I've not tested my nad yet.

 

From what I understand there is a sweetspot to nad+ levels.  Too high is not good.   Regards nmn I think donotage is a good brand for that.  I also think that nmnh is also good from doublewood.  But nmnh is said to be stronger than nmn at raising nad+ levels, and I'm not sure what the comparable to 1000mg nmn dose of nmnh would be.

Edited by Castiel, 21 November 2024 - 07:00 AM.

[QuestforLife]

I was just thinking about this the other day, Castiel. 

 

I have some niacin (the flush variety) and have used it on occasion before. 

 

I am waiting to see how my trial with NR goes in comparison with the NMN before I decide what to use going forward.

In other news...a nice interview of Bill Andrews by Mind.

Edited by QuestforLife, 21 November 2024 - 09:11 AM.