29 replies to this topic

[APBT]

https://bengreenfiel...ign=bgf-article

 

[Oakman]

Fun read, crazy what is possible. ... except this caught my eye, "average human loss of six pounds of muscle per decade". Not sure about that...

 

[Rocket]

The entire premise of the thread is incorrect. No one can build muscle for life. Look at what happens to bodybuilders when they stop. Possessing muscle is like being a shark... If you stop moving you die. Stop exercising and it all goes away as the body remodels itself.

Hgh replacement, diet, and 4 to 5 days a week of resistance training.

In 4.5 years I went from 160 to 215. I was 225 but a couple injuries last year and no one to watch my baby interfered with training.

I have learned its too much work to be big. All the damned EATING and EATING gets to be too much. A healthy 215 is what I am striving to maintain. And yes I have had chemical assistance and don't feel ashamed to admit it.

Muscle is soo important and 95% of the people I see over 40 just let it all go to waste. It seems like once most people get out of college and start their careers they stop training.

Its so important when you get older. It improves quality of life. That's why I think all these low calorie skinny people are going to regret getting old and having even less muscle. With muscle, more is better.

Edited by Rocket, 28 November 2018 - 01:23 AM.

[platypus]

More muscle is better, to a degree. Lower-body muscles are especially important as they make many very fun sports possible even post-40. 

[mikeinnaples]

 With muscle, more is better.

 

Not quite true. Speaking from personal experience, there most certainly is a point where there can be too much.
 

[John250]

The entire premise of the thread is incorrect. No one can build muscle for life. Look at what happens to bodybuilders when they stop. Possessing muscle is like being a shark... If you stop moving you die. Stop exercising and it all goes away as the body remodels itself.

Hgh replacement, diet, and 4 to 5 days a week of resistance training.

In 4.5 years I went from 160 to 215. I was 225 but a couple injuries last year and no one to watch my baby interfered with training.

I have learned its too much work to be big. All the damned EATING and EATING gets to be too much. A healthy 215 is what I am striving to maintain. And yes I have had chemical assistance and don't feel ashamed to admit it.

Muscle is soo important and 95% of the people I see over 40 just let it all go to waste. It seems like once most people get out of college and start their careers they stop training.

Its so important when you get older. It improves quality of life. That's why I think all these low calorie skinny people are going to regret getting old and having even less muscle. With muscle, more is better.

I agree. But it’s altetered with hormone replacement therapy. At my biggest on gear I was 260’s wayyy Too uncomfortable. My body likes 230-240. The past 6+ months I’ve pretty much been non existent in the gym. Maybe 10x total in 6mo. The crazy thing is I have maintained almost all of my muscle and I’m still sitting in the 230s. With clothes on I don’t look that much different then when I was training hard. However I am on HRT which I think plays a huge role and I probably would have atrophied much much more if not. I’m looking forward to a crazy rebound when I start training again. It’s very mental for me. Now I’m in the zone of being comfortable not training and I need to switch zones.

[Rocket]

At 6ft 230 is about all I would ever want to be. But all the eating and taking 2 lunches to work and cans on tuna... Its a chore just to eat and always planning out your day around having food nearby. Its just too hard with work and family for me to get back up there again. I think 215 is kind of skinny and I don't like looking at myself in the mirror, but its where I've leveled off. I am also tired of cycling and dealing with those iseues of shrunken testicles. I would like to try high and insulin as well but insulin... I need to be sure I know how to do it right ant not get fat.

4 years ago when I hit 175 I thought WOW I am huge. Now 215 feels embarrassing.

But back to point: muscle is a process. Stop the process lose the muscle. Even on trt eventually your body will remodel itself.

Edited by Rocket, 29 November 2018 - 01:50 AM.

[John250]

At 6ft 230 is about all I would ever want to be. But all the eating and taking 2 lunches to work and cans on tuna... Its a chore just to eat and always planning out your day around having food nearby. Its just too hard with work and family for me to get back up there again. I think 215 is kind of skinny and I don't like looking at myself in the mirror, but its where I've leveled off. I am also tired of cycling and dealing with those iseues of shrunken testicles. I would like to try high and insulin as well but insulin... I need to be sure I know how to do it right ant not get fat.

4 years ago when I hit 175 I thought WOW I am huge. Now 215 feels embarrassing.

But back to point: muscle is a process. Stop the process lose the muscle. Even on trt eventually your body will remodel itself.

If you’re lean at 215 that isn’t bad at all. My buddy is 6 foot on stage 220lbs pic attached. Bodybuilding is a mind fuck though. Is the only thing you’ll never be good enough at. The lifestyle was very easy when I was single but I agree with a family and kids it’s just not practical that’s why the majority of the pros don’t have families and the ones that do probably did not see them that often. It’s a very selfish sport unfortunately. You should check your test levels because after years and years of cycling many times they don’t return to normal and HRT may benefit you. Hgh with insulin is incredible for size. If you do it right you won’t get fat. You want a ast acting insulin like Humalog. It peaks 30min after injection and then again 60min later. You want to time your HGH peaks with it. Hgh shot IM peaks 2hrs. You want the peaks to occur during your workout while flooding your body with fast acting carbs and amino acids. Don’t eat fat when insulin is present and you won’t gain fat. Humalog is in you about 4-5hrs so that’s a short time frame to avoid fats. Protocol would look something like this. Assuming workout is at 1pm:

11am 3-4iu’s HGH IM
12:30pm 6-8iu Humalog
1pm workout
2pm 2nd shake
4:30-5pm protein/carb meal(low fat <10g)

Have a shake with 60-80g fast acting carbs. The rule for insulin is 10carbs per 1iu during first peak and 5carbs per 1iu during 2nd peak. Add 20g bcaa’s/eaa’s/10g glutamine/10g creatine to shake. Finish shake between 12:45-1:15pm(sip for that 1/2hr)

Then at 2pm when humalog’s 2nd peak hits have a shake with 30-40 fast acting carbs and 50g whey isolate.

Then around 4-5pm have a protein/carb meal only(still keep fat low) like meat/rice,etc..

After around 6pm the insulin cleared and you can introduce fats again.


Also about 3-4hrs “before” your Humalog shot avoid slow digesting fats as they will still be present when you shot the slin

Limit insulin to 3x/wk and make those days higher carb lower fat days. Then on the other days go higher fat lower carbs and that will balance out insulin sensitivity.

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Edited by John250, 29 November 2018 - 06:43 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

One thing I learned as I got older is that bigger isn't always better ESPECIALLY as you age. I was young, in the military, 235lbs, and could deadlift a small car. Perfectly fine for my young 20 something body. 20 years later, however, I am older/wiser and in vastly better shape overall despite not being as strong. Seriously, Does it really matter that I rep 225 now on the bench instead of 315? I am still stronger than 99.9% of the guys my age, my energy levels are high despite maintaining low body fat, I am super flexible, have plenty of muscle mass and functional strength, and I know for a fact I can beat every single one of the young bucks in my gym that throw around serious weight in a 5k by several minutes. So yeah, I could bulk back up and get those those missing two plates back on the bar..... but why? I think it would actually be counterproductive to my physique and health at this point.

[Rocket]

Size is a ego thing. I am over 40 and had no problems being 225. I loved the size and being bigger than 99 999% of men. The eating was hard. The 5 days of lifting became impossible with my wife's schedule and needing to raise our 2yo. I even had completely blew out my l5s1 at 30 and have no disc pulpous on my MRI at that level and I was fine at that weight. If I could train consistently and get the eating down, I would definitely try to hit 230. Muscle is such a huge percentage of the body and they have found weight training keeps muscle young. It keeps bones strong and dense. I am even convinced weight training slows mental aging looking at the older guys in my gym.

I had my T checked in August and it was normal around 600. That's why I want to look into hgh and slin and not go through another round of not having testicles. It does take longer to recover so yeah damage is there for certain.

So yeah size is ego. My ego likes size. But looking at older guys like hulk Hogan and he is still huge but its turning flabby. But then you look at big Lou and he is still tight...but smaller...

Edited by Rocket, 30 November 2018 - 02:22 AM.

[John250]

Size is a ego thing. I am over 40 and had no problems being 225. I loved the size and being bigger than 99 999% of men. The eating was hard. The 5 days of lifting became impossible with my wife's schedule and needing to raise our 2yo. I even had completely blew out my l5s1 at 30 and have no disc pulpous on my MRI at that level and I was fine at that weight. If I could train consistently and get the eating down, I would definitely try to hit 230. Muscle is such a huge percentage of the body and they have found weight training keeps muscle young. It keeps bones strong and dense. I am even convinced weight training slows mental aging looking at the older guys in my gym.

I had my T checked in August and it was normal around 600. That's why I want to look into hgh and slin and not go through another round of not having testicles. It does take longer to recover so yeah damage is there for certain.

So yeah size is ego. My ego likes size. But looking at older guys like hulk Hogan and he is still huge but its turning flabby. But then you look at big Lou and he is still tight...but smaller...

If you looking to gain size and plan on doing another cycle I would wait and incorporate the HGH with insulin during the cycle as the affects are amplified big-time when anabolic’s are added. If you just want to stay leaner and fuller then 2-3iu’s hgh can be added long term with no issues on HPTA shut down but not really worth adding the slin if not on AAS as well.

Edited by John250, 30 November 2018 - 02:33 AM.

[TheFountain]

The entire premise of the thread is incorrect. No one can build muscle for life. Look at what happens to bodybuilders when they stop. Possessing muscle is like being a shark... If you stop moving you die. Stop exercising and it all goes away as the body remodels itself.

Hgh replacement, diet, and 4 to 5 days a week of resistance training.

In 4.5 years I went from 160 to 215. I was 225 but a couple injuries last year and no one to watch my baby interfered with training.

I have learned its too much work to be big. All the damned EATING and EATING gets to be too much. A healthy 215 is what I am striving to maintain. And yes I have had chemical assistance and don't feel ashamed to admit it.

Muscle is soo important and 95% of the people I see over 40 just let it all go to waste. It seems like once most people get out of college and start their careers they stop training.

Its so important when you get older. It improves quality of life. That's why I think all these low calorie skinny people are going to regret getting old and having even less muscle. With muscle, more is better.

Lean and low BF is better. The muscle you have should be functionally significant muscle, not wasted on appearance. 

 

If I have all the muscle I need to training Judo, Karate and boxing and to kick the crap out of some guy thrice my size when it becomes absolutely necessary i'll take that over non-functional body builders physique any day of the week. 

 

And I can walk confidently anywhere I go and have it not be fake. 

[TheFountain]

Size is a ego thing. I am over 40 and had no problems being 225. I loved the size and being bigger than 99 999% of men.

I see guys like this a lot.

 

Assuming they have an advantage over my 175 pound self, till they realize all the various martial arts I train. Then they back they beefy Schemo straight the fuck up where it belongs. And where they know it's safe.

 

Occasionally there's somebody dipshit enough to think their size matters in a fight, and I enjoy proving them wrong (my ego problem perhaps).

 

But the entire point of these statements is that functional muscle and body mechanics wins over bullshit appearances any time, any where and to any degree. 

 

The only time it doesn't matter is when the bigger guy and the smaller guy both don't know how to fight, then the bigger guy has the advantage.

 

You can have muscle and know how to fight of course, you can be a freight train like some MMA fighters are, but most of the best fighters are lean, fast and snappy. Not appearance preenies. 

Edited by TheFountain, 03 December 2018 - 07:15 AM.

[TheFountain]

And I want to add that with all the martial arts gyms out there now?

 

Visual deterrence doesn't work anymore. 

 

It might work with old men, but it won't work with guys under 40 i'll tell you that.

 

 

[John250]

I see guys like this a lot.

Assuming they have an advantage over my 175 pound self, till they realize all the various martial arts I train. Then they back they beefy Schemo straight the fuck up where it belongs. And where they know it's safe.

Occasionally there's somebody dipshit enough to think their size matters in a fight, and I enjoy proving them wrong (my ego problem perhaps).

But the entire point of these statements is that functional muscle and body mechanics wins over bullshit appearances any time, any where and to any degree.

The only time it doesn't matter is when the bigger guy and the smaller guy both don't know how to fight, then the bigger guy has the advantage.

You can have muscle and know how to fight of course, you can be a freight train like some MMA fighters are, but most of the best fighters are lean, fast and snappy. Not appearance preenies.

I agree that in many situations size isn’t the only important factor in a fight but when it’s excessive there is an advantage. For example take an average 5’8”-5’’10” 150-175lb guy who’s highly trained in martial arts and MMA and have him fight a 6’+ 300lb+ guy and my money is on the bigger guy. Especially if the fight is in an enclosed area. This is my buddy Craig he’s 6’2” 350+lbs. He’s one of the biggest guys in the world bigger than most pro bodybuilders. One hit from this guy I don’t care how well your trained it’s game over. This is not photoshopped either.

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[TheFountain]

I agree that in many situations size isn’t the only important factor in a fight but when it’s excessive there is an advantage. For example take an average 5’8”-5’’10” 150-175lb guy who’s highly trained in martial arts and MMA and have him fight a 6’+ 300lb+ guy and my money is on the bigger guy. Especially if the fight is in an enclosed area. This is my buddy Craig he’s 6’2” 350+lbs. He’s one of the biggest guys in the world bigger than most pro bodybuilders. One hit from this guy I don’t care how well your trained it’s game over. This is not photoshopped either.

Enclosed spaces?

 

He'd be worse off in enclosed spaces than the MMA fighter because in MMA, particularly the grappling aspect, you're trained what to do in very tight quarters.

 

I could put a neck crank on that guy that he wouldn't believe is coming from somebody 1/3rd his body mass. 

 

I've seen these guys try coming to MMA gyms thinking they're gonna whip some butt and then getting man handled by women. 

 

Trust me, he stands no chance against a trained fighter, closed quarters or opened. 

Edited by TheFountain, 03 December 2018 - 05:37 PM.

[John250]

Enclosed spaces?

He'd be worse off in enclosed spaces than the MMA fighter because in MMA, particularly the grappling aspect, you're trained what to do in very tight quarters.

I could put a neck crank on that guy that he wouldn't believe is coming from somebody 1/3rd his body mass.

I've seen these guys try coming to MMA gyms thinking they're gonna whip some butt and then getting man handled by women.

Trust me, he stands no chance against a trained fighter, closed quarters or opened.

But...... if he got one clean hit on you do you really think you could continue? I’m not saying I’m doubting you but that would literally be like fighting a silverback gorilla. Even getting your arm around that neck would’ve challenging.

Edited by John250, 03 December 2018 - 05:45 PM.

[TheFountain]

But...... if he got one clean hit on you do you really think you could continue? I’m not saying I’m doubting you but that would literally be like fighting a silverback gorilla. Even getting your arm around that neck would’ve challenging.

 

First of all, Comparing Human strength and aggression to Gorilla strength and aggression is ridiculous. 

 

I have trained with guys 3 times my size and strength and know what i'm talking about when I say proper technique obliterates strength any day of the week.

 

But, you're gonna think what you're gonna think. If you wanna test the theory ask your friend to go to any Judo or Sambo Dojo and grapple with those guys and see who hits the canvass within 30 seconds flat. 

[TheFountain]

^^ And I don't mean grapple with the first day students, I mean grapple with somebody who's at least a purple or brown belt, and I dare say most green belts would toss him around too. 

[mikeinnaples]

John, if I pissed your buddy off Craig bad enough that he wanted to smash my face in, I guarantee he wouldn't catch me. I know his huge ass wouldn't be able to keep up with me when I run the hell away, hah. I would feel absolutely no shame in it either, and this is coming from a trained killer. The only way to properly handle a guy that big wanting to kill you is with a firearm and a full magazine. LOL

 

There is only so much that training can overcome when it comes to unarmed combat. Overcoming someone triple your size and strength in an actual real world, life or death situation like that isn't going to happen unless you are the elite of the elite in h2h. Your only chance if you cant run is to take him down before he gets his hands on you by whatever means necessary. Grapple him? Nope. You already lost if you got that close to him.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 04 December 2018 - 12:20 PM.

[John250]

I completely agree. Many people who train in martial arts or MMA have never even been in a real fight. Sparing doesn’t count nor does fighting with “rules.” (Fountain not saying this about you) just saying in general. You can do all the training you want but someone who’s been experienced in fighting and grew up fighting their entire life will mop the floor with a trained fighter who hasn’t actually fought. I’m bigger than most guys at near 6’ 240lbs and I have minimal fighting experience. Maybe 3-4 fights which I won but was heavily winded lol. Plus this day and age it’s just not worth it. That’s why I carry a 9

The most dangerous person you can fight isn’t a trained fighter. It’s the guy who has nothing to lose.


Even if I was trained for decades in fighting there’s no way I would take down this guy. When you’re basically inhuman like this it’s just not even debatable. Maybe if you get a really good shot to the nuts that’s about your only chance but the second he gets a hold of you it’s game over I don’t care if your Bruce Lee.

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Edited by John250, 04 December 2018 - 08:30 PM.

[TheFountain]

You guys have obviously not trained extensively in the martial arts to even begin to comprehend physical facts.

 

Physical fact 

 

1-People who study certain martial arts, let's say Jiu Jitsu, for example. Are studying not just the cognitive aspect of anatomical manipulation, they're studying the PHYSICAL aspect of anatomical manipulation. 

 

2-People who have studied this manipulation for YEARS have a given advantage over those who have not, irregardless of strength or muscular considerations. This I know from first hand experience. I have trained with 300+ pound men and trust me, when you get them into a tight triangle choke they ain't going ANYWHERE but to TAP TAP TAP town. Why? Because they have nowhere else to go. 

 

3-I will use the analogy of bringing a sword to a gunfight, as someone else pointed out they carry a 9. The sword being muscle, the gun being martial arts mastery. Though the sword is a formidable weapon, it just won't do a damn thing for you in a gunfight. Even if the swordsman is three times as powerful, quick or advanced in their art as the gun man. 

 

Like I said, if you wanna test your theories, go to the nearest decent Judo or Sambo, or heck, wrestling club. Pick somebody who's been there a while and not a beginner and see how successful you or your friend are. 

 

I say it simply. Grappling is 20% strength and 80% technique. 

 

Period. 

[TheFountain]

John, if I pissed your buddy off Craig bad enough that he wanted to smash my face in, I guarantee he wouldn't catch me. I know his huge ass wouldn't be able to keep up with me when I run the hell away, hah. I would feel absolutely no shame in it either, and this is coming from a trained killer. The only way to properly handle a guy that big wanting to kill you is with a firearm and a full magazine. LOL

 

There is only so much that training can overcome when it comes to unarmed combat. Overcoming someone triple your size and strength in an actual real world, life or death situation like that isn't going to happen unless you are the elite of the elite in h2h. Your only chance if you cant run is to take him down before he gets his hands on you by whatever means necessary. Grapple him? Nope. You already lost if you got that close to him.

100% wrong.

 

Before he knows what was going on he would be ankle locked and forced to TAP TAP TAP before his ankle gets broken. Of course in a street fight if he doesn't submit he gets his ankle broken. If you don't think a Jiu Jitsu or Judo Player couldn't break his ankle? Well, that just shows us how little you know regarding martial arts grappling technique. 

[mikeinnaples]

100% wrong.

 

Before he knows what was going on he would be ankle locked and forced to TAP TAP TAP before his ankle gets broken. Of course in a street fight if he doesn't submit he gets his ankle broken. If you don't think a Jiu Jitsu or Judo Player couldn't break his ankle? Well, that just shows us how little you know regarding martial arts grappling technique. 

 

I understand, from experience, that technique can only overcome so much when there is a vast mass and power difference, unless, like I said, the person is one of the best when it comes to h2h. Outside of those with huge egos that mistakenly believe it, there is literally only a small percentage of those who are skilled enough to do so.

 

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and who knows, maybe you are one of the few in the world capable of taking on someone triple your mass and strength. Of course, those I know who are, don't generally brag about it. So I guess there is that.

[TheFountain]

I understand, from experience, that technique can only overcome so much when there is a vast mass and power difference, unless, like I said, the person is one of the best when it comes to h2h. Outside of those with huge egos that mistakenly believe it, there is literally only a small percentage of those who are skilled enough to do so.

 

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and who knows, maybe you are one of the few in the world capable of taking on someone triple your mass and strength. Of course, those I know who are, don't generally brag about it. So I guess there is that.

When it comes to these types of conversations what we're dealing with is the most idiotic discrepancy of information and experience possible.

 

It has been proven time and time again that knowing how to fight is more advantageous than not knowing how to fight irregardless of body mass index. 

 

And I am not one of the few who could pull that off. I have seen 6 month amateur MMA fighters dominate guys 3 times their size who are not trained. Now, if the guy who was 3 times their size was equally skilled? Quite potentially much different outcome, however I also know from experience that there's essentially no way to dedicate oneself full-time to both bodybuilding AND learning to fight like an elite fighter or an elite amateur fighter. It's pretty much one or pretty much the other.

 

If his friend decided to 'dedicate' himself full-time to learning how to fight his body mass would reduce significantly and his bulk would essentially be replaced by what I call "functional fight muscle". He would be much smaller but be able to kick far more ass paradoxically. Only it's not really a paradox, it's simple body commitment and mechanics. 

[Rocket]

Well this thread is in the toilet...

[mikeinnaples]

Yup, unfortunately you are right. No point in arguing with extreme arrogance, so I am going to bow out of this conversation.

[kurdishfella]

I feel like the way you think changes your body and the aurora you give out. If you have a lot of motivation your body shapes itself after that. If you think crirtically -logically a lot (not just overthink on random bs) then I noticed your neck gets bigger perhaps because theres an increase connection from brainand spine. I also noticed women usually have bigger neck when they take steroids and biceps, steroids causes https://pubmed.ncbi....urodegeneration

This is because they have more brain cells and their feminine side lets them use their brain better. When neurodegeneration  the most obvious are your wrist get smaller, neck smaller, biceps less popping. And your hair might not even grow as long. Fingers smaller and toes less hard.

 

I also think digestion of vitamins is based on how much your body needs, based on how much hormones and things like BDNF it produces, so the more you produce the more vitamins your body will absorb and use. 

I give an another example about the mind thing, have you noticed a woman that isnt attractive psychically but your still attracted? Its because her of mind. And youve seen a psychically attractive girl but she didnt attract you so much? Usually psychically hot women have also the mind thing. more or less.

Edited by kurdishfella, 14 March 2021 - 01:15 PM.

[kurdishfella]

And also related to weight, more of that more vitamins is used therefore you need to eat more to stay at high weight. ALso this is way low dose steroids are the best, if you notice when a woman take roids her ass gets bigger but then smaller, breast shrinks like a male. low dose wont shrink them or cause neurodengeartion much. 

Edited by kurdishfella, 14 March 2021 - 10:05 PM.

[kurdishfella]

Fitness comes from cardivascoular health not muscles.