413 replies to this topic

[Zxone]

OP2040: Bought two bottles of Magnolia Extract ( Honokiol/Magnalol 90%) from Allergy Research in Ca.
What dose do you recommend?
Many thanks, Ed

[Daniel Cooper]

Daniel; I did a Google search and I find nothing, they keep wanting me to buy calamine!
Do you know the source for the capsules?
Thanks Ed

 

 

No, when I say "available orally" I mean it can be absorbed orally and not destroyed in the digestive tract.  Not that you can buy capsules.

[Rorororo]

Zxone have you checked out the enzymes Serrapeptase and Nattokinase? These 2 are supposed to treat clogged arteries. Maybe not the hardened calcified plaque but the soft plaque. If you read the reviews on Amazon there is no way they can all be fake. Some claim to have been cured of this disease but who knows. Here is a review on webmd from a woman who had a 90% blockage:

https://www.webmd.co...tionFilter=-500

"Comment:
77 year old woman -Used for atherosclerosis. Told that my carotid and several other arteries were 90+% blocked and was scheduled for arteriogram 2 months later. Started Nattokinase 4 times/day. Vascular surgeon says only 20-25% blocked when arteriogram happened. Amazing."

[OP2040]

I would recommend alpha-cyclodextrin, pomegranate juice or extract, grape seed extract standardized with proanthrocyanidins, and as the gentleman above said nattokinase.  

 

Each one of these with the exception of cyclodextrin has been shown to reverse plaque in mice and humans in at least one study.  And Cyclodextrin has been shown many times in mice.  The one human study I can't remember if it was actual plaque reversal or not so I'm not gonna quote that, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work over time.

 

Even one of these is a good start and all 4 should do the trick.  However, as I said, there is another underlying disease process we are not really getting to the root of here.  We need an anti-inflammatory.  But the immune system is very complex and interventions there can backfire very easily.  Two recent, very interesting studies shed some light on what needs to be done in this regard. 

 

The first one showed that healthy super-centenarians had unique immune systems characterized by very low B-cell counts, and a lower but differently constituted T-cell population which consisted of many more cytotoxic CD4 than CD8 cells.  The striaghtforward message here is to lower B-cell count, but I haven't found an intervention that does that yet.  The T cells are a little more complex.  But at the end of the day moderate and consistent immunosuppression is what's called for here.  And it's no coincidence that this is exactly what Rapamycin does.  It could just as well be the immunosuppression rather than the mTOR that drives that intervention.

 

The second study was on this LAV-BPIFB4 gene variant that promotes more of that particular protein in very long-lived individuals.  At first glance this gene promotes a robust eNOS pathway that does not decline with age.  Whether chicken or egg, this means much less monocyte recruitment to blood vessels and much more health.  This pathway is also one of the reasons women live longer and don't get many heart issues until after menopause. It's also big for the naked mole rat as another pathway that stays intact and protects no matter how old.  I'll skip the many details here because there's a lot of feedback loops and nonsense that make it hard to target.  The above recommendations should reset it to some extent.  And then to directly target it, my research has shown that nitrates, of all things, would be the best route.  This means the classic beet root extract, preferably taken in a way to let your oral bacteria chow down on it as well.  If you are more brave and less susceptible to health related propaganda or misinformation, then straight-up sodium nitrite is a fine option.  That's the stuff they cure meat with and you can buy it easily.   The health scare there is fairly silly if you have a good diet, but get your vitamin C and nitrites won't turn into nitrosamines, problem solved.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, feel free to ignore.  But if anyone knows how to suppress or even semi-eliminate B-cells.... 

[OP2040]

OP2040: Bought two bottles of Magnolia Extract ( Honokiol/Magnalol 90%) from Allergy Research in Ca.
What dose do you recommend?
Many thanks, Ed

 

Ed:  I take 300mg.  I don't think you need a very high dose, and take breaks from it frequently.  That will save you money, preserve tolerance and provide your body some vacation time from it.  It really goes for all supplements.

[Zxone]

OP2040:
I continue to be very impressed with your knowledge on this and other subjects! I already take a tremendous amount of supplements and drugs to stay healthy, I am truly into longevity. I started Rapamycin about a year ago, I also started doing 100mg of dasatinib along with 1g of quercetin weekly. I just ordered both serape tase and nattokinase, as recommended by Rorororo, and as I mentioned yesterday magnolia extract. I have been taking K2 , but not MK7, which I just started taking. I totally agree on the inflammation and we need to work on that. I plan to follow all your recommendations and I will retest the CT scan in 6 months to see what the improvement is, which I will share with the group. I can’t thank you enough and look forward to continuing dialogue.
Ed

[OP2040]

ty Zxone, much appreciated.    It sounds like your quite knowledgeable too.  Feel free to PM me if you want to continue the conversation beyond just this thread.

 

I am like you, but I'm constantly revising my supplements based on new studies.  And my focus, like yours is on cardiovascular.  I find it amazing that society is basically ignoring it because we have some drugs that barely manage the condition and keep people alive.  When it comes to Alzheimer's, diabetes and cancer, the talk is always about a cure.  

 

I am about ready to take the Dasatinib plunge and would love to hear of your experience with it.  

 

With your supplement list I'd be surprised if you haven't already reversed some of that plaque.  Rapamycin is exactly what I'm talking about for the immune inhibition stuff, so it looks like you have all your bases covered as far as I know.

 

 

[Zxone]

OP2040: Yes, I would truly love to continue our conversation on a more in depth basis, but please excuse my ignorance, but what does PM mean? I also agree with your comment about my plaque with everything that I take, but you could also say that maybe it would have been much worse.
Ed

[Daniel Cooper]

I would recommend alpha-cyclodextrin, pomegranate juice or extract, grape seed extract standardized with proanthrocyanidins, and as the gentleman above said nattokinase.  

 

Each one of these with the exception of cyclodextrin has been shown to reverse plaque in mice and humans in at least one study.  And Cyclodextrin has been shown many times in mice.  The one human study I can't remember if it was actual plaque reversal or not so I'm not gonna quote that, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work over time.

 

Even one of these is a good start and all 4 should do the trick.  However, as I said, there is another underlying disease process we are not really getting to the root of here.  We need an anti-inflammatory.  But the immune system is very complex and interventions there can backfire very easily.  Two recent, very interesting studies shed some light on what needs to be done in this regard. 

 

The first one showed that healthy super-centenarians had unique immune systems characterized by very low B-cell counts, and a lower but differently constituted T-cell population which consisted of many more cytotoxic CD4 than CD8 cells.  The striaghtforward message here is to lower B-cell count, but I haven't found an intervention that does that yet.  The T cells are a little more complex.  But at the end of the day moderate and consistent immunosuppression is what's called for here.  And it's no coincidence that this is exactly what Rapamycin does.  It could just as well be the immunosuppression rather than the mTOR that drives that intervention.

 

The second study was on this LAV-BPIFB4 gene variant that promotes more of that particular protein in very long-lived individuals.  At first glance this gene promotes a robust eNOS pathway that does not decline with age.  Whether chicken or egg, this means much less monocyte recruitment to blood vessels and much more health.  This pathway is also one of the reasons women live longer and don't get many heart issues until after menopause. It's also big for the naked mole rat as another pathway that stays intact and protects no matter how old.  I'll skip the many details here because there's a lot of feedback loops and nonsense that make it hard to target.  The above recommendations should reset it to some extent.  And then to directly target it, my research has shown that nitrates, of all things, would be the best route.  This means the classic beet root extract, preferably taken in a way to let your oral bacteria chow down on it as well.  If you are more brave and less susceptible to health related propaganda or misinformation, then straight-up sodium nitrite is a fine option.  That's the stuff they cure meat with and you can buy it easily.   The health scare there is fairly silly if you have a good diet, but get your vitamin C and nitrites won't turn into nitrosamines, problem solved.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread, feel free to ignore.  But if anyone knows how to suppress or even semi-eliminate B-cells.... 

 

 

To my knowledge cyclodextrin doesn't make it intact through the digestive tract.

[OP2040]

It just means Private Message, which you can do by clicking on a persons username and then send message.  

 

Agreed.  Not many people actually get scans, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are lots of people over 40 walking around with quite a lot of blockage.  The only difference is that you know and they don't.  

[Rocket]

Is anyone familiar with squalamine as a PTP1B inhibitor? Its a readily available supplement.

[OP2040]

To my knowledge cyclodextrin doesn't make it intact through the digestive tract.

 

Ya, it is probably not going to get through in large amounts.   But similar to Trehalose, I do believe that enough gets through to make it an effective intervention for the long game.  There is one study for a-cyclo in humans showing modest cholesterol lowering effects.  And there is one in mice showing that, at least in part, there is a mechanism of action related to mocrbiota.  I wouldn't be surprised if very high fiber reversed plaque, but that study will probably never be done and it's a topic for another thread.

 

https://www.foodnavi...fects-NIH-study

 

Anyway, my party line on both Cyclodexrin and Trehalose have become something like "don't ruin the good with the perfect".  While we are waiting for an easy way to get this stuff into our bloodstream, very modest effects over long-term are probably and worth it, given the price structure and ease-of-use.  We have to remember that the one thing that is literally never studied, are long-term interventions.  We can and do extrapolate, but often it is done linearly, which I believe is incorrect.  A 10% reduction in LDL may not sound like much, but over 10 years it is probably quite profound.  Yes, I know there are probably a huge number of things that can knock down LDL by 10%.  But I look for those things that also show plaque reversal in animals.  So at the very least I'm getting that 10%, and at the most maybe I'm stopping plaque long term.  All is temporary in the anti-aging space for now, and in a few years, I may be singing a completely different tune.

 

Also, subjectively, alpha-cyclodextrin has been good to me.  Namely, my body refuses to gain weight on the stuff no matter what I feed it.

 

I like to complain so let me add another one.  Almost every study I see in humans for these types of interventions is done on healthy young or old adults.  There may be a reason for this but it's incredibly frustrating and wasteful.  These studies will always show either a very low decrease in cardio risk factors of none at all.  What the hell are the study designers expecting to see in healthy young adults with perfect cardiovascular parameters.  It's complete nonsense.  This alpha-cyclodexrin study I posted is exactly one of those infuriating studies.  So keep in mind that the 10% is coming from a baseline of already good parameters.  And every tiered intervention that I've seen to work in studies shows proportionally much greater results in relatively worse disease states.  

[Zxone]

All: I am always impressed by the knowledge OP2040 has and the great contributions he makes for our group. I always learn something new from him!
Ed

[OP2040]

That's very kind of you to say Ed, thanks.  I don't count myself as all that intelligent, especially among this group which I'm constantly leaning on for answers to more technical questions.  Cheers...

[Zxone]

OP2040:
How much alpha cyclddexdrin do you take daily?
Many thanks, Ed

[OP2040]

2 grams, which is actually a reasonably small dose.  One study I remember being 6 Grams, but I think 2 is enough, depending on how aggressive you want to be, and money is always a factor as well of course.

[Daniel Cooper]

I emailed with TeamTLR recently about their offer to supply claramine.  They were able to work on pricing somewhat (see below).

 

We do have studies showing that claramine has some similar PTP1B properties which have been posted in the last few pages.  However, we don't have direct evidence that claramine has the exact same ant-athersclerosis properties as trodusquemine.  Even at that, our evidence for trodusquemine is in it's early stages though promising.  Just trying to get all the cards on the table. Bottom line - these are similar compounds with some evidence that they have similar properties, with claramine being significantly easier to synthesize (in fact, based on the papers I'm reading it's attracting research attention for these very properties).

 

I've included the pricing that TeamTLR has proposed.  The advantage to this is that it's not a "group buy" as traditionally practiced here.  There isn't going to be a Lonecity member who collects the money, buys the compound, then (hopefully) distributes the material to the purchasers.  This will all be done through TeamTLR.  They will be the one paid and will be shipping directly to the purchasers.  It's only a group buy in the sense if we hit certain quantity breaks the price goes down accordingly.

 

So, what's the interest in this?  I think the quantity that people will be interested in buying will be around 100 - 200mg.

 

TeamTLR's proposal below:

 

 

CLARAMINE

 

OPTION ONE: True Group Buy

 

Price basis for total group buy reached;

 

1g-2g basis 2900/g

2g-3g basis 2500/g

3g-5g basis 2150/g

5g+    basis 1950/g

 

So say for however the spots are sold, such as it can be a 200mg minimum x however many each individual wishes to take, the final price point will depend on where the total buy lands. Prices are valid for 2 weeks once posted. Anyone who wants in after will have to do 3000/g basis for whatever the want if they miss the deadline for initial group pricing. 

 

So, for instance, if there is a commitment for 22 x 200mg total spot by deadline that gets it to people getting 200mg at the 3-5g basis as it's 4.4mg total, so whatever someone wanted as to the number of 200mg spots they purchased individually it's on that basis $430/200mg. If for instance it only reached a total of 12 spots it's 2.4g so $500/200mg spot. 

 

Obviously it can be placed up as smaller spots, such as 100mg minimum, though. Might be the better way to go. An individual can but as many spots as they want of course. Though of course the end price per spot will be determined on just how many spots are reached before the deadline as to what basis is reached. 

 

OPTION TWO: Individual Buy Basis

 

The other way it can be offered is per individual buy as this:

 

100mg $300

200mg $520

500mg $1150

1g $2000

[Zxone]

Daniel: I’m in, but what will be the dosing protocol and how?
Ed

[ZCKZ]

I would be down to gamble some money.

[smithx]

Daniel Cooper, how will the identity and purity of the compound produced by TLR be verified?

 

Also, if everyone is getting separate shipments, how will each shipment be verified (since there's no way to be certain they really all come from the same batch)?

 

 

[Benko]

Daniel: I’m in, but what will be the dosing protocol and how?
Ed

 

+1

[Daniel Cooper]

Daniel Cooper, how will the identity and purity of the compound produced by TLR be verified?

 

Also, if everyone is getting separate shipments, how will each shipment be verified (since there's no way to be certain they really all come from the same batch)?

 

If you want independent verification that would be on us.  We'd have to get quotes from a testing lab and some material would have to be bought and sacrificed to the Lab Gods.  I'd certainly be open to that personally but have no contacts with said labs.

 

As far as assuring that everything comes from one batch, I don't think that would be an issue.  Our total purchase will be small, and TLR will have every financial incentive to buy that in one batch.  Their costs only increases with breaking it into smaller buys.

 

Ideally I agree we'd want independent verification, but that will complicate things.  If we go that route some person will have to coordinate it, collecting some money, purchasing some product, and sending it off to a lab.  It can of course be done. I might be willing to do that depending on the testing costs and how much material they would need.  I wouldn't however be much interested in exposing myself to a large financial risk. What would be ideal is if someone interested in this had access to a university lab or something similar.

 

What initially attracted me to TLR's offer is that it's really not a group buy as we traditionally do them. There's no person that has to collect funds and purchase and dispense product.  Also, TLR has been around for awhile and seems to have a pretty reasonable reputation.  Certainly better than most in this market niche. I have no financial connection with them and haven't even made a single purchase from them to date, but I have tracked them for awhile and if I were to trust someone, they'd be near the top of my list.  

 

If anyone has a contact with a test lab we could get a quote. Otherwise people will have to make a determination as to what level of risk they're comfortable with.  There are certainly plenty of people here that purchase TLR's "off the shelf" products without independent verification.

[Daniel Cooper]

Daniel: I’m in, but what will be the dosing protocol and how?
Ed

 

What I remember is that I came up with wanting to do a one time dose of 150 - 200mg, but I'd have to see if I can find my notes as to why I arrived at that.  There has been some discussion of dose in some earlier posts but I'd welcome others looking at the animal and human clinical trials to see if they can arrive at a conclusion.  

 

This is really uncharted territory and we have a limited data set to go on unfortunately.  

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 10 December 2019 - 03:47 PM.

[smithx]

If anyone has a contact with a test lab we could get a quote. Otherwise people will have to make a determination as to what level of risk they're comfortable with.  There are certainly plenty of people here that purchase TLR's "off the shelf" products without independent verification.

 

I have access to a lab, but in order to validate identity it would be necessary to have a know-good sample to compare the TLR product with.

That would mean buying some claramine from a source thought to be very reliable (perhaps someone like Thermo-Fisher) as a standard.
 

[Daniel Cooper]

How much of a reference sample do you need?  

 

 

[ZCKZ]

Your numbers don’t make sense. $2900 vs $2000? If just one person wants a gram $2000 is going to fly?

Edited by ZCKZ, 11 December 2019 - 04:46 PM.

[smithx]

How much of a reference sample do you need?  

 

Usually 100mg is recommended, but it may be able to be done with 25mg or so. I'd have to look into it more.

[ZCKZ]

Are any of the random labs offering actual trudusquemine found on a google search reputable?

[Daniel Cooper]

Are any of the random labs offering actual trudusquemine found on a google search reputable?

 

I have found no one selling trodusquemine that wasn't a custom synthesis lab that wanted a mint to make it.

 

I have continued to talk to TeamTLR about the alternative claramine (see further up the thread for a discussion on this).  Here is their latest response:

 

 

Claramine will be made available shortly by a trusted party. Those interested contact ClaramineHCl@gmail.com for details. 

 

Full confidence in the quality and source. HNMR, HPLC, and LC-MS from respected third party lab will be sent to all who inquire. If anyone wants to do a random wholly independent assay the recipient can be compensated with product after the assay is completed.

 

It is noted first ten who purchase will get 10% off pricing.

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 22 January 2020 - 09:42 PM.

[mkp6019]

Definitely have interest depending on price.