1079 replies to this topic

[GABAergic]

i see. so revgenetics is the best brand to buy? at a price of 62.50 it better be!

also people keep saying you cannot feel the senolytics if they work or not, but for fisetin it says it helps with memory and cognition. is this a difficult thing to know by taking it?

[Woody42]

Ok this is a little off the topic of Fisetin  Although it's mainly about targeting cancer-stem cells it mentions  clearing

other senescent cells too. And it points out that this is not using the standard dose of these 2 antibiotics but a dose

so low it isn't having any antibiotic effect so it won't impact out gut biome.

 

https://read.qxmd.co...stem-cells-cscs

[Vastmandana]

At any given time I will take whatever I think it's the best thing currently on market for a reasonable price. I do not expect that to be Fisetin for the rest of my life since things are moving very fast in this branch of science at the moment. I just got a huge load of Fisetin from Revgenetics, maybe that was the last load I ever needed because something better is on the market when I'm finished with it.?

Agree... I'm sure this is what most of us do... I currently follow a number of strategies and modify them as new "Science" emerges... Nuvosetin Fisetin, Revgenetics metacurcumin, lef's Bio Quercetin, Nature Restore Rosemary, NR, fasting, running on ketones, resistance exercise and other other regimens which can improve my 68 year young mind body and spirit...

As you note, our understanding of autophagy & metabolics is growing every day and like Elon says, in such a world, be smart and stay nimble!

Edited by Vastmandana, 04 May 2019 - 06:14 PM.

[Vastmandana]

Ok this is a little off the topic of Fisetin Although it's mainly about targeting cancer-stem cells it mentions clearing
other senescent cells too. And it points out that this is not using the standard dose of these 2 antibiotics but a dose
so low it isn't having any antibiotic effect so it won't impact out gut biome.

https://read.qxmd.co...stem-cells-cscs

Thanks for the link and qxmd seems to be an interesting app... This'll take awhile to digest but really appreciate it... My biggest concern (maybe premature but...) is the impact of these a antibiotics on gut microbiome... The importance of this biome is far greater than we ever thought and a growing and exciting field of study

[Engadin]

Could this approach be used too on fisetin, another flavonoid, in order to increase its bioavailability?

 

Quercetin conjugated with superparamagnetic iron oxide nanoparticles improves learning and memory better than free quercetin via interacting with proteins involved in LTP

[LarryG]

The quercetin called EMIQ has highly improved availablity (enzymatically modified isoquercetin), which makes me wonder why the same isn't being done to fisetin, given the high demand for the product and the interest in higher absorption.

 

[GABAergic]

not much high demand for it. the thread here is the most concentrated on people's interest and even that isnt a lot.

anyway, im getting some soon to test for proposed memory enhancement. people say you cannot feel the senolytic activity, but the cognition boost should be felt i suppose. so ill report how i feel when i start taking it.

Edited by GABAergic, 10 May 2019 - 07:02 PM.

[William Sterog]

I have commented about getting a cognition boost with Fisetin some pages before.

[ambivalent]

This was parked on the NMN personal experience thread. Thoughts? Short, sharp doses?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...om=groupmessage

[smithx]

TL/DR: Chronic use of fisetin may accelerate telomere shortening.

 

This was parked on the NMN personal experience thread. Thoughts? Short, sharp doses?

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...om=groupmessage

 

[GABAergic]

TL/DR: Chronic use of fisetin may accelerate telomere shortening.

 

yeah also i was taking broccomax too and found this reading; https://www.kevinsto...ous-vegetables/

i suppose none of those are good long term

[LarryG]

Fisetin and telomeres....done in vivo.  And, in what concentration compare with oral fisetin?  DMSO was used in addition.  And, what about intermittent use, say, every two weeks or a month?  Too much guess work here to say that oral fisetin will produce that result at the amounts we normally use.

 

[LarryG]

As to Sulforaphane, the guy who wrote the article is a dentist, not a medical researcher, and he flacks for the carnivore diet, so of course, he hates veggies.  I Googled the issue and he is the ONLY person who makes these claims and every other source says the opposite.  I think he's full of shit....sorry.  Read this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5225737/

[GABAergic]

i read tons of positive research on it. same with fisetin. but it doesnt mean the future research is going to prove the same benefits over and over again. i thought the guy did have some interesting points. at first i though it probably makes sense but nah he might be what you said, some hater of plant food. but did you read the comments? could be fakes but a lot of people reports issues with taking sulforaphane and then feeling better after reading the article and stopping. thats what caught my attention. could be fake though.

anyway, i think im going to start waiting more and more and be more patient with all those proclaimed "miracle" cures and such until its finalized.

Edited by GABAergic, 16 May 2019 - 03:08 AM.

[Preventionisthekey]

hello is fisetin safe ? i need a supplement to prevent cancerr and senolytic seem to be a good choice

[Dstein]

Not about fisetin, but worth reading: Senolytic therapies for healthy longevity

[GABAergic]

i asked this several times now but isnt fasting the best free senolytic

[OP2040]

No, intermittent fasting is extremely dangerous.  Here let me ruin fasting for you too:

 

https://www.eurekale...e-cif051618.php

 

 

Fasting every other day to lose weight impairs the action of sugar-regulating hormone, insulin, which may increase diabetes risk, according to data presented in Barcelona at the European Society of Endocrinology annual meeting, ECE 2018

 

 

Of course I'm having a bit of fun at your expense.  I apologize for that, but surely you see my point.  If you have such high standards that things like FIsetin and Sulforaphane do not pass the safety test for you, then why bother with supplements, or even nutrition for that matter?

 

FIsetin, Sulforaphane and I.F. all fall into the category of very safe interventions with hundreds of studies backing their potential benefits.    I'm not saying that things don't change, and I'm not saying we should ignore studies that show negative results.  All I'm saying is that life is inherently risky and probabilistic.   If you are coming from a place where no risk is acceptable, then you will be rendered paralyzed fairly quickly. 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel Cooper]

 If you are coming from a place where no risk is acceptable, then you will be rendered paralyzed fairly quickly. 

 

 

Well said.

[extendcel]

No, intermittent fasting is extremely dangerous. Here let me ruin fasting for you too:

https://www.eurekale...e-cif051618.php



Of course I'm having a bit of fun at your expense. I apologize for that, but surely you see my point. If you have such high standards that things like FIsetin and Sulforaphane do not pass the safety test for you, then why bother with supplements, or even nutrition for that matter?

FIsetin, Sulforaphane and I.F. all fall into the category of very safe interventions with hundreds of studies backing their potential benefits. I'm not saying that things don't change, and I'm not saying we should ignore studies that show negative results. All I'm saying is that life is inherently risky and probabilistic. If you are coming from a place where no risk is acceptable, then you will be rendered paralyzed fairly quickly.

To clarify that study for anyone that doesn't know, that study fasted rats for a whole day. Rats have vastly higher metabolism than humans and will die in a matter of days without food. In human equivalents, this is starvation and not fasting. They then did this for 3 months, and it comes to no surprise that the stress caused some damage to the rat's metabolism. Of course if you look at who's backing the European society of endocrinology it comes to no surprise they would overlook this fact. This is like blatantly ignoring human equivalent dose or rat equivalent dose in a study. Terrible science.

[GABAergic]

No, intermittent fasting is extremely dangerous.  Here let me ruin fasting for you too:

 

https://www.eurekale...e-cif051618.php

 

 

 

Of course I'm having a bit of fun at your expense.  I apologize for that, but surely you see my point.  If you have such high standards that things like FIsetin and Sulforaphane do not pass the safety test for you, then why bother with supplements, or even nutrition for that matter?

 

FIsetin, Sulforaphane and I.F. all fall into the category of very safe interventions with hundreds of studies backing their potential benefits.    I'm not saying that things don't change, and I'm not saying we should ignore studies that show negative results.  All I'm saying is that life is inherently risky and probabilistic.   If you are coming from a place where no risk is acceptable, then you will be rendered paralyzed fairly quickly. 

 

im quiting supplements. the risk of paying so much money for no benefit or risky benefit? give me a break. i rather take something thats free. and thats why i asked if anyone knows if fasting is senolytic. how does your study answer my question? some silly rat study done in questionable way doesnt answer what i asked.  in fact, im surprised there is even any positive study to fasting considering the "fasting companies" arent there to support
 

Edited by GABAergic, 21 May 2019 - 08:06 PM.

[Gern]

A couple months ago I decided to try fisetin, but not to adjust the dosage for humans and took 10 grams of fisetin every other day for a total of five doses. Don’t try it on an empty stomach. It is difficult to say what effect it had, though I feel pretty good and clear headed since. The only thing concrete I can report is that my age spots do appear to be fading, which might fit with this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6160768/ .

[William Sterog]

10 grams? Crazy shit. I would have some tests on liver function just in case.

[Michael]

i asked this several times now but isnt fasting the best free senolytic

 
As I discussed in a previous post in this thread, fasting does not destroy senescent cells AFAICS.

Edited by Michael, 04 June 2019 - 04:40 PM.

[ambivalent]

You've mis-linked Michael. 

 

In Longo's study on the effects on fasting and white-blood cells. He speaks of eliminating old and damaged immune cells and replacing them with stem cells.

 

https://news.usc.edu...-immune-system/

 

I recall you mentioning this study when discussing the subject, how do you reconcile this observation?

 

 

 

[Woody42]

I just had an oddball thought .  It seems a big problem with fisetin is it's low bio availability.

But it does seem to be slightly soluble in ethanol   at 5mg per ml.   so wouldn't ~ 250 ml

of vodka dissolve 500 mg of fisetin . Oh 6 shots of vodka may be a little hard on the old liver 

but at the same time while the liver is busy metabolizing the ethanol might that extend the

half life of the fisetin  perhaps allowing for a lower overall dose of fisetin.  But this brings up

another question would it be best to take fisetin as one large dose or multiple smaller doses

through out the day. 

[LarryG]

Fisetin is highly soluble in water, PEG400, and d-limonene.  Add wine if you'd like for ethanol.  And, add bioperine.  10g of fisetin only 4% absorbed is just 400mg.  I use 2 grams in the solution previously mentioned every 2-3 weeks, which is far more absorbed fisetin, I am sure, since the solution reduces the particle size so much.  See discussion of this and link to the study in previous posts.

[Dstein]

A couple months ago I decided to try fisetin, but not to adjust the dosage for humans and took 10 grams of fisetin every other day for a total of five doses.

 

Did you mix it with anything to improve bioavailability?
 

[LarryG]

As I understand it, fasting indues autophagy.  "Scientists have found that fasting for 12+ to 24+ hours triggers autophagy, and is thought to be one of the reasons that fasting is associated with longevity. There is a large body of research that connects fasting with improved blood sugar control, reduced inflammation, weight loss, and improved brain function; Oshumi’s research provides some of the “how” to this research. Exercise can also induce autophagy in some cells, allowing cells to start the repair and renewal process."  https://www.bluezone...-on-cell-aging/

[Michael]

You've mis-linked Michael.

No, I havent't: I just checked, and it goes exactly to the "omnibus" post where this is discussed (section "Fasting as senolytic:"). Look again.
 

In Longo's study on the effects on fasting and white-blood cells. He speaks of eliminating old and damaged immune cells and replacing them with stem cells.
 
https://news.usc.edu...-immune-system/
 
I recall you mentioning this study when discussing the subject, how do you reconcile this observation?

I think that's exactly where this misimpression got started: lay-audience accounts of Longo's work, and especially Rhonda Patrick's podcast. If you look at Longo's actual paper, you'll see that the "damaged immune cells" are not senescent cells, but autoreactive T-cells — the kinds of cells implicated in multiple sclerosis, which was the subject of the paper.