1079 replies to this topic

[JimWoodall]

I’m going to take 1 gram F, 1 gram Q, 1 gram curcumin, pipeline. Dissolved in olive oil for 3 days.  I am going to continue my physical fitness routine, but cut back the intensity, only a little.  

 

starts today, I can’t imagine wrecking my physical fitness routine every 3 months.  

 

ended up doing 1 gram, 1.25 grams, then 1.5 grams.  I've not noticed anything,  I lowered the intensity of my strength training a bit, but plan to return to full force on Saturday.

[Woody42]

I saw a comment that Quencetin helps the bioability of fisetin. Are there scientific

studies to show this ?

 

[Woody42]

Several people have mentioned trying to use piperin to enhance the absorption of finstin .

Here is an ineresting article on piperine of special note it mentions other herbs that also

ofton boost the absorbtion of some drugs or nurterents.  Of paticular interest is page 5 

where it talks about how the absorption of of beta caratine is enhanced  piperine, ginger

and red pepper.

 

 

https://www.alliedac...dosage-form.pdf

[Brian Valerie]

Hello again, fisetin friends!  While I don't have high regard for anecdotal evidence, even my own, due to its great susceptibility to variations, confounding variables, placebo effect, etc., I figure it can't hurt to offer my own experience, which may be informative for those interested.  For the past three months, I've been taking once weekly doses (as suggested on the package) of Life Extension's Senolytic Activator (theaflavins 275 mg, bioavailable quercetin phytosome 74 mg, and apigenin 50 mg) along with a weekly dosing of 64 to 72 mg of their bioavailable fisetin, which they claim is the equivalent of up to 1600 to 1800 mg of regular fisetin.  My age is 70 and my weight is 82 kg (about 180 pounds).  I have felt no differences whatsoever on dosing compared to non-dosing days, but don't feel confident enough to offer an interpretation (or misinterpretation) of this fact. I'll leave that to any of you who dare!  As a couple of you have previously suggested, perhaps we shouldn't expect to feel anything from what could simply be a somewhat diminished rate of aging. (?)  Any comments are more than welcome!

 

Edited by Brian Valerie, 29 March 2021 - 08:06 PM.

[Mind]

Hello again, fisetin friends!  While I don't have high regard for anecdotal evidence, even my own, due to its great susceptibility to variations, confounding variables, placebo effect, etc., I figure it can't hurt to offer my own experience, which may be informative for those interested.  For the past three months, I've been taking once weekly doses (as suggested on the package) of Life Extension's Senolytic Activator (theaflavins 275 mg, bioavailable quercetin phytosome 74 mg, and apigenin 50 mg) along with a weekly dosing of 64 to 72 mg of their bioavailable fisetin, which they claim is the equivalent of up to 1600 to 1800 mg of regular fisetin.  My age is 70 and my weight is 82 kg (about 180 pounds).  I have felt no differences whatsoever on dosing compared to non-dosing days, but don't feel confident enough to offer an interpretation (or misinterpretation) of this fact. I'll leave that to any of you who dare!  As a couple of you have previously suggested, perhaps we shouldn't expect to feel anything from what could simply be a somewhat diminished rate of aging. (?)  Any comments are more than welcome!

 

Nowadays, we shouldn't have to rely upon whether we "feel" something (always subjective). There are hundreds of biomarkers that can be measured and dozens of functional aging tests one can perform (most free, or nearly so). 

 

I encourage everyone to be more dedicated to before and after tests.

[able]

Biomarkers are much more reliable than "feelings" for sure.  But slow.

 

I believe monitoring sleep is more useful for me.

 

I tailor my diet and exercise for maximum sleep quality (per my oura ring).

 

Supplements also effect my sleep some as well.  Anything that improves sleep quality is likely anti-aging imo.

[Oakman]

Nowadays, we shouldn't have to rely upon whether we "feel" something (always subjective). There are hundreds of biomarkers that can be measured and dozens of functional aging tests one can perform (most free, or nearly so). 

 

I encourage everyone to be more dedicated to before and after tests.

 

Perhaps we 'shouldn't', but testing is costly, repeatedly moreso. Where & how are reasonable cost tests to be found?  As to functional tests... Any links? 

[aribadabar]

Perhaps we 'shouldn't', but testing is costly, repeatedly moreso. Where & how are reasonable cost tests to be found?  As to functional tests... Any links? 

 

This panel from LEF seems an awesome deal even at the regular price and now it is 25% off

 

Taking it every 2-3 months seems affordable and can show you if things are moving in the right or wrong direction. Add a CRP test and you have all the data to calculate Phenotypic Age using the DNAm calculator.

 

As to functional tests - FEV measured by a spirometer is a good start.

[pamojja]

Perhaps we 'shouldn't', but testing is costly, repeatedly moreso. Where & how are reasonable cost tests to be found? As to functional tests... Any links?

This panel from LEF seems an awesome deal even at the regular price and now it is 25% off

These tests by LEF are only the standard blood-panels covered by insurance here. But if one needs any further, like 25(OH)D3, Lp(a), homocysteine or testosterone, etc., only few GPs would order. Actually found only one. Now if one has to pay already for the standard panels, those additional very fast multipy the price.

And if one really wants a functional deep-dive, a Nutrevel for about $800,- would be really helpful. But then it again only makes sense repeatedly to see if interventions worked. Adding all of it up to very unaffordable in the long run.

There might be the case that someone feels so healthy that a CRP-curve might satisfy. But for most advanced with age that wont suffice to pinpoint the underlying causes of bad lab-results.

Edited by pamojja, 31 March 2021 - 09:24 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Perhaps we 'shouldn't', but testing is costly, repeatedly moreso. Where & how are reasonable cost tests to be found?  As to functional tests... Any links? 

 

The one test you really need is epigenetic age. Trumelabs has the cheapest at $99.

[pamojja]

The one test you really need is epigenetic age. Trumelabs has the cheapest at $99.

 

Again only makes sense serial and if you've been healthy only.

 

[Harkijn]

Again only makes sense serial and if you've been healthy only.

 

 

And even then only correlation, not causation....

[Woody42]

Over the next 30 days I plan to do a couple of 5 day fast. If I also wanted to use  1G of

fisetin a day for 5 days  I wonder if it would be more effective if taken the 5 days prior to 

the fast , during the fast or  after the fast.

[aribadabar]

Over the next 30 days I plan to do a couple of 5 day fast. If I also wanted to use  1G of

fisetin a day for 5 days  I wonder if it would be more effective if taken the 5 days prior to 

the fast , during the fast or  after the fast.

 Unless you are 50kg, 1g seems lowish given that the data is at 20mg/kg.

 

As to timing - fasting is known to be causing autophagy so during (amplifying the autophagic effect) or after (removing what the fast has been unable to) sounds cumulative.

[Harkijn]

At the start of this thread some people posted that they were going to try the supplement. I wonder if they are still taking it. Any measurable or noticeable effects? Please post your experiences.

[manofsan]

Does Black Pepper (piperine) help increase bioavailability of Fisetin?

 

Are there any other Senolytics which can work alongside Fisetin to provide greater overall Senolytic benefit?

[PAMPAGUY]

https://www.oncotarg...cle/28049/text/

 

Removing senolytic cells do not extend life.

Edited by PAMPAGUY, 27 August 2021 - 05:08 AM.

[manofsan]

https://www.oncotarg...cle/28049/text/

 

Removing senolytic cells do not extend life.

 

 

So gerostatics like Rapamycin delay the onset of senescence in non-senescent cells.

(we actually need to improve the vocabulary/terminology on this forum by using this term gerostatics, just like how we use the word senolytics - ie. we should have a gerostatics category)

 

Meanwhile senolytics  like Fisetin remove cells that have already become senescent.

 

So that means some combination of the two is best?

 

 

And what further can be done beyond taking those 2 substances? Can we also add in telomerase and telomerase-promoting activities?

 

 

Edited by manofsan, 27 August 2021 - 04:12 PM.

[PAMPAGUY]

It means in his opinion senolytics are a waste of money and time. There is no evidence removing them will extend life. Stick with rapamycin
It means in his opinion senolytics are a waste of money and time. There is no evidence removing them will extend life. Stick with rapamycin

[zorba990]

Some possible solutions to the lack of bioavailability problem:

1. Take a large dose of quercetin beforehand as its structure is EXTREMELY similar to fisetin and may help to overwhelm the liver's ability to degrade Fisetin.

2. Fisetin is oil soluble, so take it like you would curcumin - dissolved in oil, or perhaps in alcohol.

3. It shouldn't be too hard to make a liposomal mix.

Liposomal Fisetin / Quercetin product. 1000mg Fisetin 200mg Quercetin per 2 softgels
https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B098N6V1TQ

[Advocatus Diaboli]

If you go to the Amazon web page link given in post #980 and click on the second from top icon on the left side of the page you will find a "made in USA" symbol which looks as if it is on the product container.

 

Seller information given here gives the following business name and address:

 

• Business Name:shenzhenshi xinxichuanglianbuyi youxiangongsi (translation: Shenzhen Information Curtain Fabric Art Co., Ltd.)
• Business Address:
  • 员村二横路东和花园一期C梯803
  • 广州市
  • 天河区
  • 广东省
  • 510655
  • CN
•  
•  
• Contact information from this website is given as:
•  
  • What's the contact for Vitablossom Direct?

    We couldn't find contact information like phone number and email for Vitablossom Direct at this time, you can go directly to this seller's Amazon page for more information.

• A review left on Amazon states the following:

"When I got my order, the gelcaps seemed smaller than expected for 500mg fisetin + 100mg quercetin + oil, etc. I weighed the caps and got about 700mg each. When breaking them open, squeezing out very oily powder contents, the gelcap alone weighed about 150-200mg, leaving maybe 550mg for contents. However, the contents appeared to be about half oil and half powder. (See messy video where I nicked the end with a knife and squeezed gel cap with my thumb on a plate). Consequently, maybe only 275mg of fisetin + quercetin, or half of what's claimed per gel cap.
They should validate label claims with testing from independent labs or change label to be accurate."

 

 

I could find no images of the backs of the product boxes. Back of box information typically gives address information and contact phone numbers.

 

It appears that Vitablossom might find it cheaper to manufacture in the USA, rather than manufacture dirt cheap in China and ship it dirt cheap to the USA.

 

Caveat emptor

 

 

Edited by Advocatus Diaboli, 27 August 2021 - 07:58 PM.

[manofsan]

It means in his opinion senolytics are a waste of money and time. There is no evidence removing them will extend life. Stick with rapamycin
It means in his opinion senolytics are a waste of money and time. There is no evidence removing them will extend life. Stick with rapamycin

 

Alright, but perhaps we should modify that to say "Stick with gerostatics like Rapaymycin"

 

At least then we can focus on what's really going on. Substances like Rapamycin are about slowing the onset of senescence in cells.

Perhaps one day we'll find a gerostatic that's better than Rapamycin -- but the main thing is that it's gerostatic, which means that it slows the onset of senescence.

[stockcarman]

I read on another site that you should not take Rapaymycin an senolytce like fisetin an quercetin at the same time . They should be taken a week apart . Is this the right advice ?

[zorba990]

If you go to the Amazon web page link given in post #980 and click on the second from top icon on the left side of the page you will find a "made in USA" symbol which looks as if it is on the product container.

Seller information given here gives the following business name and address:

• Business Name:shenzhenshi xinxichuanglianbuyi youxiangongsi (translation: Shenzhen Information Curtain Fabric Art Co., Ltd.)
• Business Address:
  • 员村二横路东和花园一期C梯803
  • 广州市
  • 天河区
  • 广东省
  • 510655
  • CN
• Contact information from this website is given as:
• • What's the contact for Vitablossom Direct?
    We couldn't find contact information like phone number and email for Vitablossom Direct at this time, you can go directly to this seller's Amazon page for more information.
• 
  A review left on Amazon states the following:

"When I got my order, the gelcaps seemed smaller than expected for 500mg fisetin + 100mg quercetin + oil, etc. I weighed the caps and got about 700mg each. When breaking them open, squeezing out very oily powder contents, the gelcap alone weighed about 150-200mg, leaving maybe 550mg for contents. However, the contents appeared to be about half oil and half powder. (See messy video where I nicked the end with a knife and squeezed gel cap with my thumb on a plate). Consequently, maybe only 275mg of fisetin + quercetin, or half of what's claimed per gel cap.
They should validate label claims with testing from independent labs or change label to be accurate."


I could find no images of the backs of the product boxes. Back of box information typically gives address information and contact phone numbers.

It appears that Vitablossom might find it cheaper to manufacture in the USA, rather than manufacture dirt cheap in China and ship it dirt cheap to the USA.

Caveat emptor

Thanks for the heads up. Seemed a bit too good to be true. Guess its back to the powder in coconut oil

[cjacek]

Excuse me for asking but where do you guys get your bulk powder Fisetin ? I found some suppliers online, most in China, not sure who to trust. Also found a supplier in the USA, vitaspace, great prices but, once again, not sure who to trust... The risk of sub-par and / or contaminated products is too real. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks!

[Dstein]

Also found a supplier in the USA, vitaspace, great prices but, once again, not sure who to trust... The risk of sub-par and / or contaminated products is too real.

 

What does vitaspace charge? They don't list a price on their website.
 

[cjacek]

What does vitaspace charge? They don't list a price on their website.
 

 

They quoted me $80 for 50 grams, $160 for 100 grams, $320 for 200 grams etc... for > 98 % specification, but I'm still trying to find out the quality of these powders, details of the COA, which lab certified it, if it was produced in a GMP certified facility etc... but the owner has not replied so far. I've heard good things about vitaspace and they seem to be very knowledgeable, from my initial correspondence, but it's getting to be frustrating not to have my emails answered in full. I'm going to persist and hopefully I can get some answers. Does anyone here have any experience with vitaspace and if not, can anyone point me to a good and reliable source of Fisetin, from first hand experience?  

[Dstein]

I'm still trying to find out the quality of these powders, details of the COA, which lab certified it, if it was produced in a GMP certified facility etc... but the owner has not replied so far. 

My experience with vitaspace is similar.  I emailed them asking if there COAs are from independent labs and never got a response.

Most retail fisetin is Novusetin (https://www.biorigin...isetin-extract/),if that is the brand that they are using it's probably fine.

[cjacek]

My experience with vitaspace is similar.  I emailed them asking if there COAs are from independent labs and never got a response.

Most retail fisetin is Novusetin (https://www.biorigin...isetin-extract/),if that is the brand that they are using it's probably fine.

 

Interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I did finally hear back from the seller but still not totally happy with their response. My plan was to save some money but looks like I'll have to shell out the bucks for RevGenetics Fisetin (which I currently have a dwindling supply of) or Fisetin from Hansen Supplements. At least these guys provide a proper 3rd party COA right on their site or when asked. More expensive but quality stuff. 

[cjacek]

And sorry if this was asked before, in this thread (search engine doesn't seem to work) but what are your thoughts on the bio-fisetin or senolytic activator (the new one with added bio-fisetin) from Life Extension? I generally respect their cutting edge original supplements and they seem to know what they're doing but has anyone tried these? Other than some unpublished pre-clinical human data to show much higher biovailability (vs the plain high dose unformulated fisetin as in the mayo trials), there's nothing else to go on. Might be worth a try though based on a hunch or just continue with plain 'ol fisetin. The senolytic activator looks interesting. Any chance, at least in theory, that this formulated "bio-fisetin" would work well? LE from their site quote "But during digestion, much of fisetin is rapidly converted into other compounds by a process called conjugation. That’s why we protected fisetin by combining it with galactomannans, a type of fiber derived from fenugreek seed. Doing so makes it up to 25 times more readily available than standard fisetin."

Furthermore, I found this from another website:

 

"LE's Bio-Fisetin page references their Curcumin Elite page (which uses the same bio-boost trick), which in turn gives journal references.  Chasing these references down two levels in the Journal of Functional Foods  yields the following description of how they combined Curcumin with Fenugreek Powder to boost bioavailability:

 

'Various percentage CGM were prepared by ultrasound mediated gel-phase dispersion of curcuminoids in fibre matrix.  Briefly, 1 g curcumin powder was uniformly suspended in 100 ml of water containing 0.1% weight of hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose and 10% (w/v) glycerine under sonication for 20 min, at 60 C.   Soluble dietary fibre powder (2.5 g) was separately dissolved in 100 ml water with sonication to a homogeneous viscous solution. Curcumin solution was then slowly added to the fibre solution. Care was taken to keep the temperature below 50 C during ultrasound-mediated mixing.  Cloudy yellow aqueous solution thus obtained was dried under vacuum at 60 C and the resulting yellow flakes were

milled and sifted to produce uniform microgranulates of 150 ± 20 lm in size. The procedure was repeated to produce CGM containing various percentages of curcumin, ca. 20, 40 and 60.' "

 

So, could this also work with their bio-fisetin? 

Edited by cjacek, 14 September 2021 - 07:34 AM.