1079 replies to this topic

[Engadin]

Thank you for your comment xEva.

 

I fully agree with you. I would never think of injecting into a joint at home. In fact, I would even hesitate to have a professional do it. This is exactly the reason that I am asking about 'iontophoresis'.

Your comment about the 'sterility of fisetin is not mentioned by the manufacturer' is also very valid. I did not think about it.

 

Maybe I did not phrase my question correctly:

What I really meant to ask is this:

-Would it be prudent to 'deliver' fisetin directly to the joint? (not considering the method of delivery)

-If so, what would be the most appropriate solvent?

 

And assuming it is prudent to do so:

-Would 'iontophoresis' work? 

 

Have you considered DMSO as a plausible candidate for a fisetin transdermal vector? Joints as knee are not that far from skin surface and perhaps DMSO could bring the flavonoid to your target or close near, though I can't tell about the fisetin/DMSO mixing procedure. But IMHO it shouldn't certainly pose a big prob as I have learned reading some posts here. Just my two cents.

Edited by Engadin, 04 January 2019 - 11:22 AM.

[male_1978]

Btw. LifeExtensionEurope now sells a "senolytic activator" stack as something "new":

 

https://www.lifeexte...life-extension/

 

It contains "Quercetin" and  "Theaflavins" but non of the newly discovered senolytic drugs like fisetin. Are they not up to date or did i miss something?

[OP2040]

I've not posted in this thread in a while because it seems we are just constantly repeating the same issues and so a lot of people are stuck.  We got past the safety issue and most consider it safe even at higher doses.   But the following issues keep coming up with no one offering a clear way past them.

1. High intermittent dose vs.  Lower daily dose

    I have no idea which would be better, we just have to wait for a study that directly addresses the issue.  Having said that, both have their merits, the fantastic 

    study that launched this thread was based on intermittent high doses, but there are hundreds of studies on lower doses that show other benefits.  Those other

    benefits aren't necessarily clearance of senescent cells though, which is what we're all gunning for.  I've sort of settled on taking intermittent doses every 6

    months or so that are not extremely high.  This is partly down to expense though.

 

2. "I've taken Fisetin and I don't feel anything!" 

    This is a huge pet peeve of mine.  Humans have a very long lifespan, and it's completely unreasonable to think that any intervention should show immediate and

    dramatic success, assuming we even know how to define success.

 

But it is even more annoying than that!  We potentially have the technology and means to do a before and after senescent cell test in at least one type of tissue.  I've brought this up numerous times and no one seems remotely interested in even discussing it.  It would be a really big deal for this forum, and contribute extensively to our knowledge of the subject.  It would also instill confidence that the intervention is doing what we would like it to, whether it leads to further beneficial effects or not.  It would also solve another problem, namely when we should stop or slow down on this intervention.  If we could approximate this final answer even a little bit, then we could establish our senescent cell protocols and move on to bigger and better things. 

 

https://www.cellsign...aining-kit/9860

 

I realize this is probably more complicated than I'm making it out to be, but definitely not prohibitive financially or technically.  One might ask why I don't just shut up and do it myself.  I might, but it's certainly much easier to have a community supporting the effort even if it means just accessing some of the laboratory-based knowledge we have around here.

[VP.]

People who have taken Dasatinib + Quercetin have reported sometimes dramatic effects so "I don't feel anything" is a little strange. Could it be because they target different organs? 

[stefan_001]

@OP2040 I think the DIY senescent cell testing before and after is not realistic as those tests cannot be done in-vivo. Perhaps you could do it for your skin with a small biopsy before and after but even for that you need too much gear.

[Zisos]

Have you considered DMSO as a plausible candidate for a fisetin transdermal vector? Joints as knee are not that far from skin surface and perhaps DMSO could bring the flavonoid to your target or close near, though I can't tell about the fisetin/DMSO mixing procedure. But IMHO it shouldn't certainly pose a big prob as I have learned reading some posts here. Just my two cenIn fact

 

Sounds like a good idea.

In your opinion, how much fisetin should be used / What % of fisetin by weight?

[Rocket]

People who have taken Dasatinib + Quercetin have reported sometimes dramatic effects so "I don't feel anything" is a little strange. Could it be because they target different organs? 

 

In my case, as I have repeatedly said, I used a much higher dose and did not follow the mouse-model-conversion, which I believe to be flawed if applied to every chemical.

[Rocket]

 

 

2. "I've taken Fisetin and I don't feel anything!" 

    This is a huge pet peeve of mine.  Humans have a very long lifespan, and it's completely unreasonable to think that any intervention should show immediate and

    dramatic success, assuming we even know how to define success.

 

 

I can tell you in experiments with HGH and hormones and peptides that I have gotten immediate and dramatic effects. I've already commented more than enough on D+Q.

 

If senescent cells are leaking damaging 'waste' chemicals into the body, then if you instantly kill them all off then there will be a cascade of these bad chemicals into the body as the senescent cells are killed and consumed by the body. You definitely should feel something if you have enough senescent cells and you are using a high enough dose to affect them all.

Edited by Rocket, 04 January 2019 - 07:41 PM.

[xEva]

2. "I've taken Fisetin and I don't feel anything!" 

    This is a huge pet peeve of mine.  Humans have a very long lifespan, and it's completely unreasonable to think that any intervention should show immediate and

    dramatic success, assuming we even know how to define success.

 

I tend to disagree. If it worked, the effects should be felt/seen within 3 days, a week at most.

 

Which brings another point. Please correct me, if I'm wrong, since I have not read the whole thread and only looked at it occasionally, but: Haven;t you guys come up with your rather low dose of fisetin (about a gram+), based on the clinical trial dosage, which is injected into the knee joint? 1g injected, the concentration. locally, should be very high, far more than can be achieved by ingesting 100g of it (even if bioavailability was high, which it's not). IMO, to expect anything from a dose this low is unrealistic.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Which brings another point. Please correct me, if I'm wrong, since I have not read the whole thread and only looked at it occasionally, but: Haven;t you guys come up with your rather low dose of fisetin (about a gram+), based on the clinical trial dosage, which is injected into the knee joint? 1g injected, the concentration. locally, should be very high, far more than can be achieved by ingesting 100g of it (even if bioavailability was high, which it's not). IMO, to expect anything from a dose this low is unrealistic.

 

 

Exactly. Apoptosis is driven by caspases, but there has to be enough of them to begin a cascade, whereafter apopotisis cannot be reversed. With just a little at a time you may never get there (beyond the billions of cells that are being recycled every day). There's a threshold effect, and also a sensitivity effect whereby you can lower the threshold. Certain agents can act to sensitize cells to apoptosis. One is resveratrol. For instance--

 

Here, we demonstrated that a natural compound, resveratrol (RSV) displayed anti-proliferative activity in a dose- and time-dependent manner in a panel of MM cell lines. More importantly, a low concentration of RSV was synergistic with a low dose of the proteasome inhibitor carfilzomib (CFZ) to induce apoptosis in myeloma cells. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5961230/

 

 

And

 

Naturally occurring dietary compound resveratrol (RES), possessing chemopreventive and cytostatic properties, has been shown as potent sensitizer for apoptosis induced by a variety of anticancer drugs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17013532

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 January 2019 - 08:51 PM.

[xEva]

Exactly. Apoptosis is driven by caspases, but there has to be enough of them to begin a cascade, whereafter apopotisis cannot be reversed. With just a little at a time you may never get there (beyond the billions of cells that are being recycled every day). There's a threshold effect, and also a sensitivity effect whereby you can lower the threshold. Certain agents can act to sensitize cells to apoptosis. One is resveratrol.

 

Turnbuckle, have you come across another molecule as good as resvertatrol in this regard? I'm asking, coz, reportedly, resvertatrol inhibits aromatase, which could be a concern for people who are not interested in increasing their level of testosterone.

[Engadin]

Sounds like a good idea.
In your opinion, how much fisetin should be used / What % of fisetin by weight?

 
 
I didn't do my homework and it happens to be a thread 'How to do fisetin skin cream' on this matter: https://www.longecit...tin-skin-cream/

 

Engadin

[Oakman]

Here is my senescence therapy. It uses three techniques to maximize senescence. As others have done, perhaps more than just fisetin is needed to be successful.

• #1 Start with modified calorie restriction (mCR) AND

• #2 p53 + p21 upregulators DELAY 24 hrs

• #3 Add senolytics

The ‘plan’ was to start #1 and #2 on the first day, get the body to activate cell-cycle arrest and apoptosis so as to in the best state for the senolytics. Then three senolytics on days two through four. Finally, two days of rest with no supplements, then 4 days of NAD+ rejuvenation therapy.

 

The protocol was conceived with three calorie restricted meal times - AM, PM and noon. Noon is a large plain salad with a bit of oil and vinegar dressing and water for beverage. AM and PM are the supplement fortified drink made from a base and an activate mix & liquids. The base is protein, fiber for bulk, and as a tasty vehicle for the activate mix. It’s a few hundred calories. Activate molecules aim for p53 and p21 expression. Beyond that, there are some calories in the oils and emulsions. I premade enough of the two dry mixes for ease of use.

 

I felt p53 and p21 were important factors that need to be optimized to improve senescence outcome.

 

“The p53 protein is a key tumor-suppressor protein at the crossroads of cellular stress response pathways. Through these pathways, which can lead to cell-cycle arrest, DNA repair, cellular senescence, differentiation or apoptosis, p53 facilitates the repair and survival of damaged cells or the elimination of severely damaged cells from the replicative pool to protect the organism”

 

“We suggest that p53 and p21Cip1 have dual roles in the regulation of growth arrest and DNA synthesis in primary rat hepatocytes.”

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/1210937

1. BASE (Dry Mix) - Fiber (psyllium), Protein Powder Mix (Veggie/Casein/Whey/Goat), Cocoa, Coconut sugar (low-glycemic)
2. ACTIVATE p53 & p21 ( 5g /day Dry Mix) - Vitamin C, Reishi, Watercress Extract, Purple Fruit & Veggie Extract, Ashwagandha, Bromelain, Betaine HCL, Pepsin, Zinc, Ginger, Vitamin D
3. ACTIVATE P53 & p21 (Liquid) - Black Seed Oil (Thymoquinone), Resveratrol, Curcumin, Tocotrienols, Sunflower Lecithin (emulsifier)
4. SENOLYTICS - Fisetin (1g/day), Piper Longum (2g/day), Quercetin (300 mgs/day sublingual)

Although I’ve not posted them here, I cataloged references and reasoning for all supplements included.

Before beginning this protocol, I stopped all supplements two days prior, then started the protocol in the evening.

 

12/26/18 Wednesday

• 6pm 1st dose of mix, less Quercetin, Fisetin, Piper Longum, R&C. Taste is just ok, think black seed oil tastes odd.

12/27/18 Thursday

• 6am  No hunger from last night. Weight down 1.4 lbs to 148. Did same stuff but added missing R&C. Taste is same, ok. Tired took a nap.

• 12pm Lunch of salad and oil dressing approx 150 calories. Did 3.4 mile walk prior fine. Little tired but not hungry! Also had 20 grapes as desert. Also note that the protein smoothie and oils used each dose are approx 300 cal/dose.

• 6pm 1st dose mix with fisetin 700 mg. Little too strong, took 90% only. Felt bit odd, and hungry, so ate salad bowl.

12/28/18 Friday

• 6am Used leftover and 400 mg new fisetin in dose. Quercetin taken separate sublingual. No problem with dose now. Feel full and only a bit strange. Lost 3 lbs since start. Did add little more cocoa and veggie powder to equal 40 grams. Taking quercetin separately as sublingual. Tired took a nap.

• 12pm Lunch of lrg salad, oil dressing. Feeling odd like IF, but ok. Tired took a nap.

• 6pm Settled on 500 mgs fisetin. Made new mix with modified amts of ingredients. Party in PM had water and tiny bit pulled pork, scalloped potato, deviled eggs.

12/29/18 Saturday

• 7am Routine dosing. Think eating a bit last night made me feel better.

• Lunch - Extra large salad, plus popcorn. Went for walk of three miles, quite tired, bit dizzy, send heart beating.

• 6pm Routine dosing, plus popcorn and a piece of cheese and some tuna fish.

12/30/18 Sunday

• Stopped protocol. Felt I’ve had enough, I don’t like the energyless feeling I have - simply my gut feel. I want my ‘good body, strong body,’ feeling back.

End result totals: Fisetin ~2.6g, Piper Longum ~10g, Quercetin ~1.5g

 

> I will repeat this in one month with less calorie restriction. Likely I’ll eat a small meal of limited calories AM and PM and keep the salad at noon.

-------------------

I didn’t follow through on the last parts of the protocol, that is, the two days rest and then the recover regimen. I felt strange enough that I just wanted to feel normal. So I did the recover regimen straight away. It worked.
 

The recovery regimen consists of NMN (sublingual), PeakATP, Quercetin, low dose Melatonin, and a low dose multivitamin (most components less than the MDR) for two days. After that, I resumed my normal supplements.
 

I wouldn’t say I felt great doing this protocol, I had a definite ‘odd-out of sorts’ body sense. Perhaps I’m not accustomed to how CR feels?  Whatever, I regained my sense of feeling normal by going back to my usual daily protocol (and food)!
 

As to did this work, well I look at things a bit different from, say, some current study metrics of improvement in the elderly. I think one study was judging improvement on Improved gait speed on a 6 minute walk. Myself, I look at how well my body performs doing more substantial effort. I wish studies would more focus on able body adults and elders rather than on the weakest among us. After all, improved lifespan is a most important aspect of everyone's life, not only the weak and ill.
 

For example, see the attached graph below of how my cardiovascular system functioned during a 28 mile bike ride earlier today. I’m quite pleased it took some 5 miles to get my HR to ‘working speed’, and from there on out it just did it’s job without complaint.
 

I’ve noticed a couple things different cycling since the treatment. At the average HR of ~137 bpm, my breathing rate seems slower, just steady deep breathing. Also my HR seems to be easily going towards 160 bpm and in spikes beyond for short periods, with no distress. I just slow a bit to slow it down, no sense pushing it. The weird thing also is a don’t feel any cardiovascular strain, my body just works, perhaps better than it ever has.

 

Whether this has anything at all to do with what I did for a few days with this protocol is certainly an open question.

 

If cellular senescence helps with healthspan parameters I track, I’m all in. I want to stay fit into my 70s, 80s and beyond. Alternatively, If all such a therapy can do is help someone push their walker a bit faster for a few feet, it’s not sure it’s worth the effort. Time will hopefully reveal answers to all these questions as more studies relevant to the average person are done.

 

In the meantime, here’s hoping the second senescence this month session produces more good results!

 

Attached Files

•  my HR2.png   301.74KB   1 downloads

[Dstein]

Interesting commentary:

Paradoxes of senolytics.  https://www.aging-us...cle/101750/text

 

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, have you come across another molecule as good as resvertatrol in this regard? I'm asking, coz, reportedly, resvertatrol inhibits aromatase, which could be a concern for people who are not interested in increasing their level of testosterone.

 

This is not something you do every day and the half life of resveratrol is just a few hours, so it shouldn't be a problem. As for OTC supplements, there are some that aren't as good, while experimental drugs like BH3 mimetics are not available to the public.

 

One I'm using is sodium butyrate. It's known to sensitize cancer cells to apoptosis, and in my experience seems to add to the effect of senolytics. It has a very short half-life, so I take it every half hour to hour after a dose of my senolytic protocol. Still, this works far better with resveratrol.

 

If you look around, you can find others like gambogic acid. I haven't see a source for it OTC.

[eigenber]

Turnbuckle - Can I ask what is your senolytic protocol?

Last week I combined 70mg of D+3gm Q(sublingual)+1gm Fisetin(sublingual)+150mg Tocotrienols. Four hours later, and for the next 3 days I had fairly significant and unpleasant flu-like symptoms. So I'm not ready to get back on that horse again. I'm wondering if there's an effective protocol that avoids those side effects. I believe Dasatinib is the main culprit, but I don't want to leave out any critical components. The side effects may be an age-related thing, since I'm 70.  Any suggestions?

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle - Can I ask what is your senolytic protocol?

Last week I combined 70mg of D+3gm Q(sublingual)+1gm Fisetin(sublingual)+150mg Tocotrienols. Four hours later, and for the next 3 days I had fairly significant and unpleasant flu-like symptoms. So I'm not ready to get back on that horse again. I'm wondering if there's an effective protocol that avoids those side effects. I believe Dasatinib is the main culprit, but I don't want to leave out any critical components. The side effects may be an age-related thing, since I'm 70.  Any suggestions?

 

I'm still experimenting with it. I'll post it on my stem cell thread in the next week or two. As for your experience, I expect that the degree of unpleasantness will correspond to the load of senescent cells being destroyed. Sometime past the age of 60 the body undergoes a Hayflick crisis, where large numbers of cells reach their replicative limit and become senescent, and the senescence-associated secretory phenotype drives others to become senescent in chain reaction fashion. The rate of aging thus increases very rapidly. My goal is to combine senolytics with endogenous stem cell replacement to deal with that crisis.

[Krell]

Report on second Fisetin monthly dose

 

My first dose was in October 2018 when I took 1000mg x 3 days of Dr Best capsules in 3 tablespoons of evoo.  Not effect noted.

 

The second dose was an attempt to follow closer to the Mayo Clinic trial dosage of 20mg/kg on two successive days.

 

Vitals: age74.2, 183lb=83kg, 6ft, fit, not on any prescription drugs, no supplements taken during fisetin trial, not exercising due to knee sprain.

 

Dec 23: 10:30am mixed 1500mg of Dr Best fisetin in 3 tablespoons evoo for five minutes and drank mixture.  Aside from coffee at 8am, did not eat until 1pm.

Took temperature and blood pressure every few hours and did not notice any significant changes, or any other sensations.

 

Note the Mayo Clinic trial dose should have been 83kg*20mg/kg=1660mg rather than 1500mg, so I decided to increase the next dose to compensate.

 

Dec 24: 8:30am took 1800mg fisetin as previously, with coffee and did not eat until 12 noon.  No significant changes in temperature or blood pressure or sensations during the day. Perhaps I did have a slight "menthol" sensation in my lungs after about 4 hours.

 

No sleep changes noted during the dosing period and 2 days after, that I could be connect with the fisetin.

 

Dec 25: nothing related to the fisetin noted.

 

Dec 26: resumed exercise program with tennis, weight lifting, and interval training on stairstepper with HR monitor.  Noted improved tennis serve, no change in weight lifting, and a slight improvement in average heart rate over the interval training period.  Will have to see if any of these changes is temporary.

 

I did the Osiris Green epigenetic aging analysis about a year ago, and I plan to repeat it ASAP, but the web site shows they are not taking new orders until they clear the old ones.

 

At the end of January 2019 I plan the repeat the approximate Mayo Clinic fisetin trial protocol, perhaps with a 2.0 gram x 2 day dose. 

I may also try switching from Dr Best to Rejuvenation Theraputics brand fisetin capsules, since others have reported more significant effects with that brand.

 

 

Edited by Krell, 06 January 2019 - 01:15 AM.

[Florin]

Is anyone concerned about possible impurities in supplemental fisetin that may lead to undesirable side effects after gulping down half a bottle or more of the stuff?

[eigenber]

I'm still experimenting with it. I'll post it on my stem cell thread in the next week or two. As for your experience, I expect that the degree of unpleasantness will correspond to the load of senescent cells being destroyed. Sometime past the age of 60 the body undergoes a Hayflick crisis, where large numbers of cells reach their replicative limit and become senescent, and the senescence-associated secretory phenotype drives others to become senescent in chain reaction fashion. The rate of aging thus increases very rapidly. My goal is to combine senolytics with endogenous stem cell replacement to deal with that crisis.

Thanks. I've done D+Q before, but in lower doses and without fisetin or tocotrienols. Similar flu-like effects but much milder. 

[PabloB]

My observations are perfectly consistent with yours. About 3 years ago I lived in a very polluted African City and was suffering symptoms of COPD with chronic bronchitis. I used D+Q with remarkable elimination of the chronic bronchitis and easier breathing. I felt mildly flu like symptoms for a day after ingesting. D seems difficult to access and at high costs with prescription in the West. I decided a few days ago to try Azithromycin and Fisetin. Five days ago I started the typical 3 day 500 mg/day Azithromycin regimen and added 1000 mg’s fisetin. By the second day I felt strong flu like symptoms with cough and sputum. The third day worse and fourth day worse again. Now on fifth day in the morning I feel better but considering skipping the last dose of fisetin. I am a 65 year old male that has been avidly following and self treating with ant aging therapies for 40 years. My worst experience was three weeks in a hospital and on a ventilator with brain swelling due to sensitivity to an Aruvyedic compound. This is nothing close to that but I am more hesitant to push things after that so likely will err on the side of caution and forego the last dose of fisetin.

Anyone here have any experience with mesenchymal stem cells from Wharton’s Jelly. I am considering treatment but haven’t seen much in the way of anecdotal information.

[eigenber]

My observations are perfectly consistent with yours. About 3 years ago I lived in a very polluted African City and was suffering symptoms of COPD with chronic bronchitis. I used D+Q with remarkable elimination of the chronic bronchitis and easier breathing. I felt mildly flu like symptoms for a day after ingesting. D seems difficult to access and at high costs with prescription in the West. I decided a few days ago to try Azithromycin and Fisetin. Five days ago I started the typical 3 day 500 mg/day Azithromycin regimen and added 1000 mg’s fisetin. By the second day I felt strong flu like symptoms with cough and sputum. The third day worse and fourth day worse again. Now on fifth day in the morning I feel better but considering skipping the last dose of fisetin. I am a 65 year old male that has been avidly following and self treating with ant aging therapies for 40 years. My worst experience was three weeks in a hospital and on a ventilator with brain swelling due to sensitivity to an Aruvyedic compound. This is nothing close to that but I am more hesitant to push things after that so likely will err on the side of caution and forego the last dose of fisetin.

Anyone here have any experience with mesenchymal stem cells from Wharton’s Jelly. I am considering treatment but haven’t seen much in the way of anecdotal information.

You seem like a real trooper with self-experimentation. Do you think you're better off, on average, than your cohort group in terms of aging and health? I tried senolytic combinations (all with D) and never quite had the endurance to stay with it for more than one day because of the crushing flu-like sides. If I knew it was actually having an anti-aging effect, I would suck it up and endure. 

[PabloB]

I dosed DQ one day by purpose. At that time the general consensus was a single occasional dose was sufficient. I see the recent study dosed three times/ week for three weeks. I do believe everything I have taken has helped. When I see photos of high school friends. I am shocked at how old they look compared to myself. I don’t think it has helped to say 120 year life span but let’s see. My wife and I have 6 year old twins and so I am committed to trying anything as possible that I believe has anti aging potential.
...otherwise just sitting on death row.

[PabloB]

In the last few months I have seen photos of high school class mates on the internet. I can’t express how shocking it is to see women you remember as beautiful vibrant young girls to suddenly be white haired wrinkled grandmothers. Absolutely shocking.

[eigenber]

In the last few months I have seen photos of high school class mates on the internet. I can’t express how shocking it is to see women you remember as beautiful vibrant young girls to suddenly be white haired wrinkled grandmothers. Absolutely shocking.

Yes, exactly. I'm 5 years older than you and have been following one regimen or another for the last 20 years or so. It's seems the research is building to a critical mass and there could be a quantum leap in a couple of years. I don't know how big it'll be, but we'll see. People on this site seem make up the bulk of 'human trials' and most of them are unscientific and self-funded, which is to say underfunded.

[PabloB]

Yes, exactly. I'm 5 years older than you and have been following one regimen or another for the last 20 years or so. It's seems the research is building to a critical mass and there could be a quantum leap in a couple of years. I don't know how big it'll be, but we'll see. People on this site seem make up the bulk of 'human trials' and most of them are unscientific and self-funded, which is to say underfunded.

I have spoken with the best stem cell clinic in India and they have a relatively good price for mesenchymal stem cell treatments from umbilical cords. I am considering but the lack of anecdotal reports worries me. I saw yesterday a nurse practitioner in Houston was offering these same treatments which is really worrisome (no cost yet from there). These cells do not stimulate immune response and are plentiful but no idea with current practices if they are at all effective. Slightly more optimistic about orthopedic applications with proper technique but even that may be hit or miss.

Where do you live?

BTW I am feeling much much better today but still have a bad cough.

[QuestforLife]

BTW I am feeling much much better today but still have a bad cough.

 

Interesting that a cough was a relatively common adverse reaction in the recently reported D+Q safety study.

 

https://www.ebiomedi...(18)30629-7/pdf

 

Although of course it's hard to pin that on the senolytics given the disease they are treating is pulmonary fibrosis (and there's no control group).

[Rocket]

Turnbuckle - Can I ask what is your senolytic protocol?
Last week I combined 70mg of D+3gm Q(sublingual)+1gm Fisetin(sublingual)+150mg Tocotrienols. Four hours later, and for the next 3 days I had fairly significant and unpleasant flu-like symptoms. So I'm not ready to get back on that horse again. I'm wondering if there's an effective protocol that avoids those side effects. I believe Dasatinib is the main culprit, but I don't want to leave out any critical components. The side effects may be an age-related thing, since I'm 70. Any suggestions?

As I have theorized many times, the flu like symptoms are the result of all those senescent cells dying and their toxins flooding your body simultaneously. Mine have gotten lesser with time. It i believe is a sign if it working.

[eigenber]

As I have theorized many times, the flu like symptoms are the result of all those senescent cells dying and their toxins flooding your body simultaneously. Mine have gotten lesser with time. It i believe is a sign if it working.

I'll have another go after the next round of the Turnbuckle fusion protocol. Hopefully at the same dosage the sides diminish over time. The question is then, are there fewer senescent cells left, or is it a physiological adaptation to the treatment chemistry?

[PabloB]

I believe I benefit from these therapies. As noted previously I had good results from DQ single use. This latest combo of Azithromycin and fisetin also appears to be beneficial. I have experienced moderate pain for a few months (moderate in that I could sleep on it but when awake constantly adjusted arm position to lessen pain). Starting yesterday no pain in my shoulder. Also left knee pain for a year but as of late yesterday no knee pain. I do still have a cough albeit lessened and both nasal and pulmonary mucus which will treat today Albuterol and an expectorant. My family also now has a cough and so impossible to determine if this is from wholly or partially from the treatment or just a concedence. We have so many day to day variables in our lives that often impossible to determine if an effect or concidence. The study quoted above noted cough with DQ so maybe a feature for me of senolytic therapy or maybe not. I quickly stop supplements from which I see no discernible impact so not susceptible to placebo effect. Maybe reduced inflammation improved the shoulder and knee. I had knee pain during my last course of rapamycin with no change in the knee.

I am optimistic for myself that senolytics do have a real positive impact.