46 replies to this topic

[Phoebus]

THis is a thread to discuss the science of supplementing collagen. 

 

Whether it be collagen for skin or joint health or any other health matter, its all relevant. 

 

 

[Phoebus]

 

 

24-Week study on the use of collagen hydrolysate as a dietary supplement in athletes with activity-related joint pain

ABSTRACT

Background: Collagen hydrolysate is a nutritional supplement that has been shown to exert an anabolic effect on cartilage tissue. Its administration appears beneficial in patients with osteoarthritis.

Objective: To investigate the effect of collagen hydrolysate on activity-related joint pain in athletes who are physically active and have no evidence of joint disease.

Design and setting: A prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study was conducted at Penn State University in University Park, Pennsylvania. Parameters including joint pain, mobility, and inflammation were evaluated with the use of a visual analogue scale during a 24-week study phase.

Study participants: Between September 2005 and June 2006, 147 subjects who competed on a varsity team or a club sport were recruited. Data from 97 of 147 subjects could be statistically evaluated.

Intervention: One hundred and forty-seven subjects (72 male, 75 female) were randomly assigned to two groups: a group (n = 73) receiving 25 mL of a liquid formulation that contained 10 g of collagen hydrolysate (CH-Alpha)* and a group (n = 74) receiving a placebo, which consisted of 25 mL of liquid that contained xanthan.

Main outcome measures: The primary efficacy parameter was the change in the visual analogue scales from baseline during the study phase in relation to the parameters referring to pain, mobility, and inflammation.

Results: When data from all subjects (n = 97) were evaluated, six parameters showed statistically significant changes with the dietary supplement collagen hydrolysate (CH) compared with placebo: joint pain at rest, assessed by the physician (CH vs. placebo (–1.37 ± 1.78 vs. –0.90 ± 1.74 ( p = 0.025)) and five parameters assessed by study participants: joint pain when walking (–1.11 ± 1.98 vs. –0.46 ± 1.63, p = 0.007), joint pain when standing (–0.97 ± 1.92 vs. –0.43 ± 1.74, p = 0.011), joint pain at rest (–0.81 ± 1.77 vs. –0.39 ± 1.56, p = 0.039), joint pain when carrying objects (–1.45 ± 2.11 vs. –0.83 ± 1.71, p = 0.014) and joint pain when lifting (–1.79 ± 2.11 vs. –1.26 ± 2.09, p = 0.018). When a subgroup analysis of subjects with knee arthralgia (n = 63) was performed, the difference between the effect of collagen hydrolysate vs. placebo was more pronounced. The parameter joint pain at rest, assessed by the physician, had a statistical significance level of p = 0.001 (–1.67 ± 1.89 vs. –0.86 ± 1.77), while the other five parameters based on the participants’ assessments were also statistically significant: joint pain when walking ( p = 0.003 (– 1.38 ± 2.12 vs. – 0.54 ± 1.65)), joint pain when standing ( p = 0.015 (–1.17 ± 2.06 vs. –0.50 ± 1.68)), joint pain at rest with ( p = 0.021 (–1.01 ±1.92 vs. –0.47 ± 1.63)), joint pain when running a straight line ( p = 0.027 (–1.50 ± 1.97 vs. –0.80 ± 1.66)) and joint pain when changing direction ( p = 0.026 (–1.87 ± 2.18 vs. –1.20 ± 2.10)).

Conclusion: This was the first clinical trial of 24-weeks duration to show improvement of joint pain in athletes who were treated with the dietary supplement collagen hydrolysate. The results of this study have implications for the use of collagen hydrolysate to support joint health and possibly reduce the risk of joint deterioration in a high-risk group. Despite the study's size and limitations, the results suggest that athletes consuming collagen hydrolysate can reduce parameters (such as pain) that have a negative impact on athletic performance. Future studies are needed to support these findings.

 

 

 

collagen worked remarkably well in athletes with joint pain. 

 

Here is the thing - they took 10 grams collagen/day. That is much more than most people take. Be aware of dosage levels. 

[Phoebus]

another study showing 10 g/day improves arthritis in knees

 

 

A randomized controlled trial on the efficacy and safety of a food ingredient, collagen hydrolysate, for improving joint comfort

Current options to promote joint comfort are limited to medicines that can reduce pain but can also have adverse effects. Collagen, a major component of joint cartilage, is found in the diet, particularly in meat. Its hydrolysed form, collagen hydrolysate (CH), is well absorbed. CH may stimulate the joint matrix cells to synthesize collagen, so helping to maintain the structure of the joint and potentially to aid joint comfort.

Methods In a randomized, double-blind, controlled multicentre trial, 250 subjects with primary osteoarthritis of the knee were given 10 g CH daily for 6 months.

Results There was a significant improvement in knee joint comfort as assessed by visual analogue scales to assess pain and the Womac pain subscale. Subjects with the greatest joint deterioration, and with least intake of meat protein in their habitual diets, benefited most.

Conclusion CH is safe and effective and warrants further consideration as a food ingredient.

 

[Phoebus]

 

 

Oral Intake of Specific Bioactive Collagen Peptides Reduces Skin Wrinkles and Increases Dermal Matrix Synthesis

 

Skin Pharmacol Physiol 2014;27:113-119

https://doi.org/10.1159/000355523

 

 

 

Dietary consumption of food supplements has been found to modulate skin functions and can therefore be useful in the treatment of skin aging. However, there is only a limited number of clinical studies supporting these claims.

 

In this double-blind, placebo-controlled study, the effectiveness of the specific bioactive collagen peptide (BCP) VERISOL® on eye wrinkle formation and stimulation of procollagen I, elastin and fibrillin biosynthesis in the skin was assessed. A hundred and fourteen women aged 45-65 years were randomized to receive 2.5 g of BCP or placebo, once daily for 8 weeks, with 57 subjects being allocated to each treatment group. Skin wrinkles were objectively measured in all subjects, before starting the treatment, after 4 and 8 weeks as well as 4 weeks after the last intake (4-week regression phase).

 

A subgroup was established for suction blister biopsies analyzing procollagen I, elastin and fibrillin at the beginning of the treatment and after 8 weeks of intake.

 

The ingestion of the specific BCP used in this study promoted a statistically significant reduction of eye wrinkle volume (p < 0.05) in comparison to the placebo group after 4 and 8 weeks (20%) of intake. Moreover a positive long-lasting effect was observed 4 weeks after the last BCP administration (p < 0.05). Additionally, after 8 weeks of intake a statistically significantly higher content of procollagen type I (65%) and elastin (18%) in the BCP-treated volunteers compared to the placebo-treated patients was detected. For fibrillin, a 6% increase could be determined after BCP treatment compared to the placebo, but this effect failed to reach the level of statistical significance. In conclusion, our findings demonstrate that the oral intake of specific bioactive collagen peptides (Verisol®) reduced skin wrinkles and had positive effects on dermal matrix synthesis.

 

2.5 grams collagen daily not only saw improvment in facila wrinkles but also in measurable levels of procollagen type I (65%) and elastin (18%), so this was not just placebo or subjective 

Edited by Phoebus, 05 October 2018 - 06:12 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

Ingestion of BioCell Collagen®, a novel hydrolyzed chicken sternal cartilage extract; enhanced blood microcirculation and reduced facial aging signs

 

Skin aging and its clinical manifestation is associated with altered molecular metabolism in the extracellular matrix of the dermis. In a pilot open-label study, we investigated the effect of a dietary supplement, BioCell Collagen® (BCC), which contains a naturally occurring matrix of hydrolyzed collagen type II and low-molecular-weight hyaluronic acid and chondroitin sulfate, in 26 healthy females who displayed visible signs of natural and photoaging in the face.

 

Daily supplementation with 1 g of BCC for 12 weeks led to a significant reduction of skin dryness/scaling (76%, P = 0.002) and global lines/wrinkles (13.2%, P = 0.028) as measured by visual/tactile score. Additionally, a significant increase in the content of hemoglobin (17.7%, P = 0.018) and collagen (6.3%, P = 0.002) in the skin dermis was observed after 6 weeks of supplementation.

 

At the end of the study, the increase in hemoglobin remained significant (15%, P = 0.008), while the increase in collagen content was maintained, but the difference from baseline was not significant (3.5%, P = 0.134). This study provides preliminary data suggesting that dietary supplementation with BCC elicits several physiological events which can be harnessed to counteract natural photoaging processes to reduce visible aging signs in the human face. A controlled study is necessary to verify these observations.

Go to:

Abstract

Skin aging and its clinical manifestation is associated with altered molecular metabolism in the extracellular matrix of the dermis. In a pilot open-label study, we investigated the effect of a dietary supplement, BioCell Collagen® (BCC), which contains a naturally occurring matrix of hydrolyzed collagen type II and low-molecular-weight hyaluronic acid and chondroitin sulfate, in 26 healthy females who displayed visible signs of natural and photoaging in the face. Daily supplementation with 1 g of BCC for 12 weeks led to a significant reduction of skin dryness/scaling (76%, P = 0.002) and global lines/wrinkles (13.2%, P = 0.028) as measured by visual/tactile score. Additionally, a significant increase in the content of hemoglobin (17.7%, P = 0.018) and collagen (6.3%, P = 0.002) in the skin dermis was observed after 6 weeks of supplementation. At the end of the study, the increase in hemoglobin remained significant (15%, P = 0.008), while the increase in collagen content was maintained, but the difference from baseline was not significant (3.5%, 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3426261/

 

study shows collagen supplementation can  counteract natural photoaging damage to skin. 

 

hemoglobin in the skin was also increased, wrinkles decreased. 

 

dosage was only 1 gram/day 

Edited by Phoebus, 05 October 2018 - 11:48 PM.

[Phoebus]

IN this study low molecular weight collagen enhanced neurogenesis in the dentate gyrus (of the hippocampus) about 20% more than high molecular weight collagen (in mice)

 

also seemed to have anti anxiety affects. Not bad! 

 

Biocell collagen theoretically contains LMWC 

 

 

 

 

Ingestion of BioCell Collagen®, a novel hydrolyzed chicken sternal cartilage extract; enhanced blood microcirculation and reduced facial aging signs

 

Skin aging and its clinical manifestation is associated with altered molecular metabolism in the extracellular matrix of the dermis. In a pilot open-label study, we investigated the effect of a dietary supplement, BioCell Collagen® (BCC), which contains a naturally occurring matrix of hydrolyzed collagen type II and low-molecular-weight hyaluronic acid and chondroitin sulfate, in 26 healthy females who displayed visible signs of natural and photoaging in the face. Daily supplementation with 1 g of BCC for 12 weeks led to a significant reduction of skin dryness/scaling (76%, P = 0.002) and global lines/wrinkles (13.2%, P = 0.028) as measured by visual/tactile score. Additionally, a significant increase in the content of hemoglobin (17.7%, P = 0.018) and collagen (6.3%, P = 0.002) in the skin dermis was observed after 6 weeks of supplementation. At the end of the study, the increase in hemoglobin remained significant (15%, P = 0.008), while the increase in collagen content was maintained, but the difference from baseline was not significant (3.5%, P = 0.134). This study provides preliminary data suggesting that dietary supplementation with BCC elicits several physiological events which can be harnessed to counteract natural photoaging processes to reduce visible aging signs in the human face. A controlled study is necessary to verify these observations.

 

Go to:

 

Edited by Phoebus, 05 October 2018 - 11:56 PM.

[Phoebus]

This may be the most interesting collagen study yet. It basically says that collagen can be utilized directly by the body without being broken down into its basic amino acid components. 

 

This flies in the face of literally hundred of websites which claim that collagen is first broken down into glycine, proline, etc and then those individual amino acids are used by the body. This study says no, the entire collagen peptide can be transferred to the skin! 

 

thats great to hear

 

 

Oral Ingestion of Collagen Hydrolysate Leads to the Transportation of Highly Concentrated Gly-Pro-Hyp and Its Hydrolyzed Form of Pro-Hyp into the Bloodstream and Skin

 

Collagen hydrolysate is a well-known dietary supplement for the treatment of skin aging; however, its mode of action remains unknown. Previous studies have shown that the oral ingestion of collagen hydrolysate leads to elevated levels of collagen-derived peptides in the blood, but whether these peptides reach the skin remains unclear. 

 

Here, we analyzed the plasma concentration of collagen-derived peptides after ingestion of high tripeptide containing collagen hydrolysate in humans. We identified 17 types of collagen-derived peptides transiently, with a particular enrichment in Gly-Pro-Hyp. This was also observed using an in vivo mouse model in the plasma and skin, albeit with a higher enrichment of Pro-Hyp in the skin. 

Interestingly, this Pro-Hyp enrichment in the skin was derived from Gly-Pro-Hyp hydrolysis, as the administration of pure Gly-Pro-Hyp peptide led to similar results. Therefore, we propose that functional peptides can be transferred to the skin by dietary supplements of collagen.

 

https://pubs.acs.org...cs.jafc.6b05679

 

[William Sterog]

Thanks for all the good researching, my friend. Very interesting to read.

[Phoebus]

 

Effects of collagen tripeptide supplement on skin properties: A prospective, randomized, controlled study 

 

Available from: https://www.research...ontrolled_study [accessed Oct 07 2018].

 

Abstract Background: Experimental and clinical trials have indicated that dietary supplements can have beneficial effects on skin health. Objective: We investigated to evaluate the effect of daily collagen peptide (CP) supplement on skin properties. Methods: Thirty-two healthy volunteers were randomized to receive either no supplement (group A), CP 3g (group B), CP 3g and vitamin C 500mg (group C) or vitamin C 500mg (group D) daily for 12 weeks. Skin properties evaluated included hydration, transepidermal water loss (TEWL), and elasticity using a corneometer, tewameter and cutometer, respectively. Results: Changes from baseline in the corneometer were statistically significant between groups A and B (p=0.011) and groups A and C (p=0.004). There were statistically significant differences in cutometer from baseline between groups A and B (p=0.005) and groups A and C (p=0.015). There was no significant difference from baseline in the corneometer and cutometer between groups B and C. The greatest changes in TEWL from baseline were seen in group B, and the second greatest changes were seen in group C.

 

 Conclusions: Daily CP supplementation may improve skin hydration and elasticity, but concomitant intake of low dose vitamin C did not enhance the effect of CP on skin properties. 

 

 

 

collagen improves skins conditions again, however! Taking it with 500 mg Vit C did NOT intensify affects. 

 

Perhaps taking it with 5 or 6 grams Vit c would? 

[Phoebus]

 

Effects of oral administration of tripeptides derived from type I collagen (collagen tripeptide) on atherosclerosis development in hypercholesterolemic rabbits.

(PMID:25468425)

 

DOI: 10.1016/j.jbiosc.2014.10.011  The Digital Object Identifier (DOI) System enables identification of digital entities

 

Abstract

 

Digestion of type I collagen with a collagenase-type protease yields a collagen tripeptide (Ctp) fraction comprising Gly-X-Y sequences that exhibit diverse biological activities. We previously demonstrated that Ctp inhibits the proliferation and migration of cultured aortic smooth muscle cells (SMCs) in vitro. These cells contribute to the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and other cardiovascular diseases. In order to evaluate the effects of Ctp on atherosclerosis development in vivo, here we used the Kurosawa and Kusanagi-hypercholesterolemic (KHC) rabbit model of familial hypercholesterolemia to determine the effects of oral administration of Ctp for three months. Ctp induced a significant decrease in the area occupied by atherosclerotic plaques in the aorta and in the level of total serum cholesterol. The components of atherosclerotic plaques underwent distinct changes, including reduction in the populations of macrophages and SMCs and a significant decrease in the proportion of macrophages to SMCs. Ctp administration decreased the number of cells in plaques that expressed proliferating cell nuclear antigen and the number of cells with oxidative damage to DNA as indicated by 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanine detection.

 

These findings are the first to define the mechanism underlying the inhibitory effects of Ctp on atherosclerosis development in hypercholesterolemic rabbits, and suggest that Ctp provides an effective therapy for treating atherosclerosis.

 

 

This study was quite surprising as I had no idea Collagen was a candidate for treating atherosclerosis.

 

They found collagen "inhibits the proliferation and migration of cultured aortic smooth muscle cells (SMCs) in vitro. These cells contribute to the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis and other cardiovascular diseases." (in rabbits) and suggest it may do the same in people. First I have heard of this effect of collagen. 

[Phoebus]

 

A collagen, chitosan and hyaluronic acid based gel significantly improved recovery in patients who had lumbar spine fusion. (in rabbits) 

 

https://www.injuryjo...0564-2/fulltext

Edited by Phoebus, 08 October 2018 - 01:00 AM.

[dosquito]

why isn’t this talked about more? best brands?

[dosquito]

why are types 1 and 3 typically available only in tablets and not capsules?

why does type 2 work for skin when it’s the cartilage one??

[William Sterog]

What pisses me off is that I'm unable to find ane with the three types that doesn't include Vitamin C.

[OP2040]

There's a lot of research on ECM in general being a fundamental player in tissue regeneration, not just he passive bystander as many people seem to think.  One of the more fascinating things I've seen is from the bioelectricity research.  Back before it was all based on ion channels, some of the science was showing ECM participated in regeneration as the second half of a dipole with cells being the other half, this being a driver of the regeneration.  Naturally, this has been dropped in favor ion manipulation based on drugs, and I don't think I need to elaborate on why that might be...

[DukeNukem]

About six months ago i switched to only using collagen protein powder. Whey induces too much insulin, for one. And collagen appears to be healthier for joints and skin.

[dosquito]

Can someone please comment on type 2 improving skin somehow?

 

At 26, I'm starting to see the first real signs of aging and it sucks. I see now how you older folks are so obsessed. I had immaculate skin for years and now I have a line in my forehead and greying temples.

[Phoebus]

why does type 2 work for skin when it’s the cartilage one??

 

 

great question. 

 

 Ingestion of CII (which is mainly in the cartilage) is thought to increase synthesis of type I collagen and hyaluronic acid in the skin 

 

according to examine 

 

https://examine.com/...pe-ii-collagen/

What pisses me off is that I'm unable to find ane with the three types that doesn't include Vitamin C.

 I am a big believer in biocell collagen, its a great product 

 

https://www.amazon.c...l+collagen&th=1

Can someone please comment on type 2 improving skin somehow?

 

 

I linked the examine article which state CII stimulate CI in the skin, but i cant say exactly how that is happening 

[Phoebus]

why isn’t this talked about more? best brands?

 

 

a lot of this research is surprisingly new, one of the studies I linked here just came out this month. 

 

Its odd that collagen hasn't been studied that much, but it hasn't

 

Biocell is my go to brand. It is low molecular weight collagen, making it easier to absorb 

 

 

 

There's a lot of research on ECM in general being a fundamental player in tissue regeneration, not just he passive bystander as many people seem to think.  One of the more fascinating things I've seen is from the bioelectricity research.  Back before it was all based on ion channels, some of the science was showing ECM participated in regeneration as the second half of a dipole with cells being the other half, this being a driver of the regeneration.  Naturally, this has been dropped in favor ion manipulation based on drugs, and I don't think I need to elaborate on why that might be...

 

 

interesting, got any articles to link? 

Edited by Phoebus, 10 October 2018 - 04:07 AM.

[John250]

Most companies use type one and type three collagen which I believe is more beneficial for cosmetic reasons. For tendons and ligaments type two is best. Also from what I read you don’t want to mix type 2 with type 1 or type 3. Type 1 and Type 3 can be mixed fine but type 2 should be taken separate. SyraPlex is the best priced type2 I’ve seen especially since 5-10g is the best dose but it looks like their website is down. 2600mg/serving 75 servings total. It’s around $20-$25

https://syraplex.com...937-500x500.jpg

You can try emailing them

syraplex@gmail.com

[dosquito]

I ordered the doctor's best 180 count

 

Curious why it's not good to mix with I and III

[Phoebus]

Most companies use type one and type three collagen which I believe is more beneficial for cosmetic reasons. For tendons and ligaments type two is best. 

 

 

this is a perfectly logical statement, however from my research it seems Type II does nearly everything you need collagen to do including anti aging for the skin and helping joint pain and arthritis. We really do need more research on the subject however, it amazing how little research there is given how omni present collagen is in the body and how important it is. 

 

I mean it may even prevent cardiovascular disease. Thats pretty big. 

[John250]

I ordered the doctor's best 180 count

Curious why it's not good to mix with I and III

A few articles state not to mix them.

https://www.energeti...rtilage-health/

“If you are also taking a Collagen Type 1 & 3 supplement, be sure to take it at a different time of day than Collagen Type 2 and don’t take either with other types of protein. Taking collagen on an empty stomach or with a little juice will prevent your body from getting confused by the different proteins in food, and will ensure the collagen protein travels to cartilage effectively.”

But then again I just read this:

https://www.biocellcollagen.com/faqs

“Is it true, that collagen type 2 should not be combined with collagen type I&3, or they should be taken at least an hour apart from each other?”

Answer:
“No. There is no scientific evidence of incompatibility between collagen type 2 and 1&3 when taken together. The notion that if they are taken together, the two proteins will bind and form a complete protein and the body will not recognize it as collagen is false marketing rhetoric. In contrast, multiple human clinical studies have been conducted on BioCell Collagen® demonstrating that 2 grams daily is effective for joint health while 1 gram daily is effective for skin benefits. These clinical studies provide solid evidence that BioCell Collagen® is a unique, healthy aging supplement that promotes more active joints and younger-looking skin at the same time. The outcome of these studies was presented in scientific conferences and also published in scientific journals. For study details, click here.”
https://www.biocellc...clinical-trials

[dosquito]

hmmm so should i be taking type 1/3 as well? my goal is keep my face looking prime for as long as possible. maybe i’ll just try the type 2 but take some packs of mixed collagen protein from whole foods. it says types 1 2 3 5 and 10

[Phoebus]

hmmm so should i be taking type 1/3 as well? my goal is keep my face looking prime for as long as possible. maybe i’ll just try the type 2 but take some packs of mixed collagen protein from whole foods. it says types 1 2 3 5 and 10

 

I have been taking biocell collagen, 5 - 10 g/day, for about 4 weeks now. 

 

It has very noticable affects on joint pain and a pleasantly surprising benefical effect on my face skin. Less wrinkles, and firmer tighter skin. Biocell is type II only. 

 

I would like to a see a study that compare placebo vs CI vs CII vs CIII and see which collagen type is most effective in various conditions. I have looked by cant find such a study. 

[Mind]

why isn’t this talked about more? best brands?

 

Just a reminder, this type of question (best brands) should be asked in the Retailer/Product Discussion sub-forum. https://www.longecit...uct-discussion/

 

We have this forum so that "science" discussions, such as this one, are not overrun with talk about commercial products.

 

Of course, to some extent they do go hand-in-hand, but it would be better to start a thread called "Best collagen suppliers", and then link to it from this thread.

[ironfistx]

I have been taking Great Lakes collagen 11g a day for about two years.

 

Ahead of using that, I was taking Neocell 6g a day and I noticed my skin was smoother but not less wrinkles.  Then I initiated using 2.5g Verisol at night, which is the variety that supposedly has the studies showing a decrease in wrinkle depth.  Unexpectedly, when I started eating a piece of dark chocolate every night the effect was amplified.

 

There is one company that says not to blend collagen with other types of proteins, and then they sell a product that has protein and collagen in it.  I was like what are you guys thinking?

 

There are places that say the kind of collagen doesn't matter considering that your body breaks it all down anyway.  I don't know.

 

Besides this, read the thread I am about to post if you haven't already.

http://www.longecity...en-supplements/

[ironfistx]

Most companies use type one and type three collagen which I believe is more beneficial for cosmetic reasons. For tendons and ligaments type two is best. Also from what I read you don’t want to mix type 2 with type 1 or type 3. Type 1 and Type 3 can be mixed fine but type 2 should be taken separate. SyraPlex is the best priced type2 I’ve seen especially since 5-10g is the best dose but it looks like their website is down. 2600mg/serving 75 servings total. It’s around $20-$25

https://syraplex.com...937-500x500.jpg

You can try emailing them

syraplex@gmail.com

 

The only product on their website is t shirts.
 

[Phoebus]

 

 

There are places that say the kind of collagen doesn't matter considering that your body breaks it all down anyway.  I don't know.

 

 

right, thats what nearly every website wtill tell you 

 

but if you look above you can see where I posted a study which shows the entire collagen peptide can be transferred to the blood and/or skin, which is pretty amazing and also a great reason to supplement with collagen as opposed to just taking the separate AA's 

[Phoebus]

I have been taking Great Lakes collagen 11g a day for about two years.

 

Ahead of using that, I was taking Neocell 6g a day and I noticed my skin was smoother but not less wrinkles.  Then I initiated using 2.5g Verisol at night, which is the variety that supposedly has the studies showing a decrease in wrinkle depth.  Unexpectedly, when I started eating a piece of dark chocolate every night the effect was amplified.

 

 

 

thats really interesting. I have been looking for a study to demonstrate how the best way to take collagen is (empty stomach? with fat? with protein?) and can find nothing 

 

chocolate often has lecithin in it, wonder if thats what helped?