3 replies to this topic

[wishfulStoic]

I'm new to the forum, but I've been a long time reader.  I'll try to make this focused as I know there have been a lot of threads around this topic and before I get directed elsewhere I want to be clear about what I haven't been able to find much info on...

 

I'd like to get insight on if Uridine + DHA (mrhappy stack minus the choline...I'll explain below) along with small amounts of adderall (3-7mg per dose) could be safe for long term use (1-2 years) until I can start to taper off completely?

 

So I guess the meat of this question is whether or not we think the synergy is more or less dangerous long term?  Is the combination going to help me get off completely in the long term or make it harder in the future?

 

My Hypothesis:

 

Uridine, as written about extensively here, has some evidence that it helps reset/regulate/upregulate dopamine receptor density which many users after stimulant abuse or just use have said they've benefited from.  It's helped them return to or have more 'normal' dopamine system function (motivation, reward, etc).  

 

I'm saving many arrows in my metaphorical quiver if you will (DLPA/L-Tyrosine, Avena Sativa, etc) and Uridine is one I will either use now in synergy to help prepare my body or later when completely off of Adderall.  I'm not trying to amplify the effects of adderall (I believe all of the supplements do), just prepare my body to go without adderall one day but in a healthy and responsible process.  I am trying to thread the needle between stopping adderall but not have my life fall apart like most peoples do for some time upon quitting.  I don't have the luxury of taking a year off of work (entrepreneur, see below) , working a standard 9-5 job with limited responsibilities until I get my feet back up under me.  

 

I'd like to believe Uridine might do at least one of the following offsetting / stemming the tide of damage Adderall is doing to my dopamine system while I try to dig myself out of the mess I created. 

• Mitigating/stemming the tide of downregulation of dopamine receptors (given the small dosage I'll be on, maybe even begin reversing it -wishful thought) 
• Helping begin reversing gene changes from Adderall/stimulant use
• At the very least - Helping me take progressively less amounts due to the sensitivity increase to stimulants Uridine would provide

If I go cold turkey (which I have tried) I am in a mess as you'll read about below.  Would really appreciate any comments or thoughts on this from you guys!  I value your feedback and have been reading your posts for years.  

 

Brief Background Information:

 

I've been on adderall for about 5 years now.  I have never abused it in any sense of the word abuse.  I've never taken extra, snorted, etc etc.  From day one I've been very cautious about the whole thing and actually reluctant to be on it (felt like it was a crutch).  I was still naive enough to have pretty much started and stayed at 20mg of IR (instant release) either 2 or 3 times a day for a few years.  I did take breaks but not very long ones (a couple of days up to 1-2 weeks).  

 

I've tried quitting over the past 2 years and can successfully quit completely even for a number of months.  However, I have found the effects like most people are devastating to my professional and personal life.  The whole 'I don't know who I am' anymore without it is definitely a major issue on top of the lack of productivity.  I started my first business 9 years ago and have grown it into a very successful business as well as another start-up with huge potential.   

 

The first major problem is when I quit I lose both "people" now.  Obviously the superhuman "adderall" me is gone (I know we can't have this person anymore), but also the "before Adderall" me is gone as well.  I don't have much desire for anything,motivation, drive, or interest in the same things so I'm left so confused.  I don't want to throw away 10 years of hard work to go cold turkey off a drug because I'm so confused about who I am.  

 

The second major problem is that I've unintentionally leaned on this 'crutch' (adderall) way more than I've even realized.  My healthy organic discipline muscle has been totally atrophied leaving me with bad habits and poor discipline to get things done the normal way.  (*I think Adderall reverses your reward system.  On adderall you already have the dopamine rush so you 'want' to do things you normally wouldn't.  You just do them because you already want too.  The normal process is to do a task/project and receive the dopamine rush as a reward of accomplishing something.  You get the dopamine after you finish it. Anyways...another topic.  PS- I'm not on adderall while I write this lol).  The stress of the workload combined with the weak atrophied discipline, habits, etc are completely overwhelming me when off of it.  I don't have the "muscle" to stand on my own completely yet even under a much lighter load.    

 

Notes on Choline:  

 

I can not figure it out, but seems like every source of choline I try gives me either worse depression or brain fog or both!  I've tried CDP, GPC, and ALCAR.  ALCAR was mildest but seemed to still depress.  CDP was the worst.  *I can eat eggs without these effects or atleast the effects have been so mild I don't really notice.  

 

[John250]

I'm new to the forum, but I've been a long time reader. I'll try to make this focused as I know there have been a lot of threads around this topic and before I get directed elsewhere I want to be clear about what I haven't been able to find much info on...

I'd like to get insight on if Uridine + DHA (mrhappy stack minus the choline...I'll explain below) along with small amounts of adderall (3-7mg per dose) could be safe for long term use (1-2 years) until I can start to taper off completely?

So I guess the meat of this question is whether or not we think the synergy is more or less dangerous long term? Is the combination going to help me get off completely in the long term or make it harder in the future?

My Hypothesis:

Uridine, as written about extensively here, has some evidence that it helps reset/regulate/upregulate dopamine receptor density which many users after stimulant abuse or just use have said they've benefited from. It's helped them return to or have more 'normal' dopamine system function (motivation, reward, etc).

I'm saving many arrows in my metaphorical quiver if you will (DLPA/L-Tyrosine, Avena Sativa, etc) and Uridine is one I will either use now in synergy to help prepare my body or later when completely off of Adderall. I'm not trying to amplify the effects of adderall (I believe all of the supplements do), just prepare my body to go without adderall one day but in a healthy and responsible process. I am trying to thread the needle between stopping adderall but not have my life fall apart like most peoples do for some time upon quitting. I don't have the luxury of taking a year off of work (entrepreneur, see below) , working a standard 9-5 job with limited responsibilities until I get my feet back up under me.

I'd like to believe Uridine might do at least one of the following offsetting / stemming the tide of damage Adderall is doing to my dopamine system while I try to dig myself out of the mess I created.

• Mitigating/stemming the tide of downregulation of dopamine receptors (given the small dosage I'll be on, maybe even begin reversing it -wishful thought)
• Helping begin reversing gene changes from Adderall/stimulant use
• At the very least - Helping me take progressively less amounts due to the sensitivity increase to stimulants Uridine would provide

If I go cold turkey (which I have tried) I am in a mess as you'll read about below. Would really appreciate any comments or thoughts on this from you guys! I value your feedback and have been reading your posts for years.

Brief Background Information:

I've been on adderall for about 5 years now. I have never abused it in any sense of the word abuse. I've never taken extra, snorted, etc etc. From day one I've been very cautious about the whole thing and actually reluctant to be on it (felt like it was a crutch). I was still naive enough to have pretty much started and stayed at 20mg of IR (instant release) either 2 or 3 times a day for a few years. I did take breaks but not very long ones (a couple of days up to 1-2 weeks).

I've tried quitting over the past 2 years and can successfully quit completely even for a number of months. However, I have found the effects like most people are devastating to my professional and personal life. The whole 'I don't know who I am' anymore without it is definitely a major issue on top of the lack of productivity. I started my first business 9 years ago and have grown it into a very successful business as well as another start-up with huge potential.

The first major problem is when I quit I lose both "people" now. Obviously the superhuman "adderall" me is gone (I know we can't have this person anymore), but also the "before Adderall" me is gone as well. I don't have much desire for anything,motivation, drive, or interest in the same things so I'm left so confused. I don't want to throw away 10 years of hard work to go cold turkey off a drug because I'm so confused about who I am.

The second major problem is that I've unintentionally leaned on this 'crutch' (adderall) way more than I've even realized. My healthy organic discipline muscle has been totally atrophied leaving me with bad habits and poor discipline to get things done the normal way. (*I think Adderall reverses your reward system. On adderall you already have the dopamine rush so you 'want' to do things you normally wouldn't. You just do them because you already want too. The normal process is to do a task/project and receive the dopamine rush as a reward of accomplishing something. You get the dopamine after you finish it. Anyways...another topic. PS- I'm not on adderall while I write this lol). The stress of the workload combined with the weak atrophied discipline, habits, etc are completely overwhelming me when off of it. I don't have the "muscle" to stand on my own completely yet even under a much lighter load.

Notes on Choline:

I can not figure it out, but seems like every source of choline I try gives me either worse depression or brain fog or both! I've tried CDP, GPC, and ALCAR. ALCAR was mildest but seemed to still depress. CDP was the worst. *I can eat eggs without these effects or atleast the effects have been so mild I don't really notice.

I’m in the same boat but use about 75-90mg amphetamine/day. About 1/2 oral 1/2 snorted. I quit in the past tapering off Vyvanse over a 6 month period and was successful for about 6mo until I opened a business and had to go back on. Now I basically need 20-30mg amphetamine just to get out of bed in the morning and more throughout the day to accomplish anything. I’m married with 2 hyper toddlers and without it I’m worthless. The worst part for me is the fatigue it’s constant. Some days I’ll feel really good(maybe 2x/wk) and I desperately try to figure out what I did differently to feel that way but really it’s just a never ending chase for the high. I’m in the process of selling my business and plan to taper the same way again and include upregulators like UMP, 9-me-bc, tyrosine, Jiaogulan, inositol, bpc-157,etc.. to help the process. Unfortunately when on amphetamines I don’t think upregulators will do much. I’ll need a good washout about 1/2 way into the taper(sleep for 2-3days) and then again at the end. Hopefully this time around I won’t relapse again. It’s comforting knowing there are no human studies showing amphetamine neurotoxicity unless very high doses(forgot the # I think 300mg+) but I’m sure there is some issues. I justify that I absorb probably 60-70% when snorting but clearly it’s not good. I use an arsenal of supplements to counteract toxicity but it’s probably just a bandaid on a bullet wound.

Supplements:
4-8g Vitamin C(c-salts buffered/Vitality C)
Tons of magnesium
Pomella extract/grapeseed/EGCg/Chocamine/7,8DHF
Gingerols/Shogaols
UltraCur Curcumin
MitoQ/Ubiquinol/Astragaloside IV
Vitamin A,D,E,K2
Na r ala/ALCAR/NAC
PQQ/CBD oil/Melatonin/Nicotine
CDP choline/alpha gpc/creatine
Eleuthero/panax/Korean Red Ginseng
Phosphatidylserine
Lingzhi/Dan Shen/Rehmannia
DHA/EPA/B complex/OptiZinc
Tribuytrin/Selenium
TransResveratrol/grapeseed/pterostilbene
Astaxanthin/Shilajit Fulvic Acid/Taurine/bcaa’s/Eaa’s
Etc...,

Edited by John250, 29 November 2018 - 11:50 PM.

[CWF1986]

I'm the same way with choline.  Depending on how much and the type of choline source I get anything from mild stomach discomfort and feeling 'robotic' to intense nasea, stomach discomfort/pain, vomiting, and utter despair.

 

There's even a theory of depression suggesting that one of the causes or contributing causes of depression is a cholinergic-adrenergic axis imbalance.

 

The idea is that some people will do better with dopaminergics and/or substances that effect noradrenaline whereas others would better optimize their brain chemistry with cholinergics.  

 

I'm not sure how much I agree with all that up there that I just typed, I'm just giving some food for thought and letting you know you're not the only one.  

 

 

[cat-nips]

For me choline only works stacked with Racetams, Coffee and/or Uridine.  Alternating is also helpful, or else I get the same utter despair, fatigue, tiredness.  But with a racetam or possibly uridine and coffee, it seems to act as intended.  Lower doses are better than higher ones.  It took me years to figure that out.  

 

I don't think Uridine would synergise with Adderall.  It works better with more classic DRIs like Methylphenidate or Modafinil.  With amp products, it behaves somewhat differently.  If you wanted to try it with Adderall, perhaps dosing later in the afternoon or evening would be helpful when you're starting the comedown.  Some people report it helps with sleep, others say it makes them alert.  For me Uridine and Dexedrine just felt weird and isn't something I wouldn't be looking to repeat, although I had success with it on Modafinil.  

 

Modafinil products could also be helpful during your time off.  But it's not a replacement.  There's no way around the suffering, unfortunately.  Once you're over the acute withdrawal phase after a couple of weeks, you have months of feeling crappy to contend with.  This is when Uridine, Tyrosine, Racetams, etc., could be helpful.   Or you could try some of those things to try to reduce dosage or prevent tolerance in conjunction with your Adderall.  

 

 

Edited by cat-nips, 06 January 2019 - 03:46 PM.