9 replies to this topic

[mono]

So, the question is.
Do racetams need time (daily dosing), to build up in ones system to feel the effects?
Or do they work instantly?

In my experience both has been true. I remember I had to dose Piracetam for almost 2 weeks before I felt the effects, whereas Noopept I felt the first dose I took.

What are others experience with this?

[mono]

So I was doing some reading and came across this.
Says racetams can take up to 60 days before having an effect.

“According to one source, “The therapeutic effect of Aniracetam is seen after about 60 days and may be more pronounced after 4 months of treatment.“”
https://nootriment.com/aniracetam/

[gamesguru]

“According to one source, “The therapeutic effect of Aniracetam is seen after about 60 days and may be more pronounced after 4 months of treatment.“”
https://nootriment.com/aniracetam/

 

Cumulative and prolonged effects are not the same as "building up in your system".  A medicine can be completely water soluble and have a short half-life but deliver insane cumulative benefits.  Just look at LSD.

Nootriment is neither a primary nor academic source, and so should be approached skeptically.  Closer inspection reveals the quotation is stolen from the erowid archives.  This is just losing credibility by the second, argh.

https://erowid.org/s...tam_info1.shtml

 

While I can see the value in sticking to plastogenic ampakines, the boosts in GABAergic and striatal+cortical[1] serotonergic activity makes some individuals want to practically fall asleep at their desk.

 

Bacopa may work better for such individuals, as the GABAergic effect is less extreme and the serotonin boost is limited to the cortex[2] while also being balanced out by striatal[3] 5HT-2C downregulation (which at times gives an ergogenic, almost stimulant feel to the herb)

 

They both oppose glutamate toxicity, but I think aniracetam does it more potently and has more potential to shut glutamate down completely and cause brain fog or sleepiness.  For these reasons, I decided early on aniracetam was not for me.  You can get similar cumulative effects from other things.  Exercise, good diet, and friendship are all examples of things with cumulative benefits.

[mono]

Right. Well, my bad. Though the point I’m trying to make is that perhaps some users are not taking racetams for long enough periods of time. It only takes a little searching to see that racetams taking a time to buildup in ones system is a regular instruction. For example, on the boards phenylpiracetam is considered to build tolerance in only a few short days however, I need to take it for at least a week or two to see the effects, and then the effects can last for days without even taking a dose.

[gamesguru]

perhaps some users are not taking racetams for long enough periods of time.

 

or perhaps they're quitting while ahead?
 

It only takes a little searching to see that racetams taking a time to buildup in ones system is a regular instruction.

 

?? sources please. I am disputing this even in the case of fat-soluble aniracetam.  And are you saying the benefits take a huge plunge when it metabolizes out, like no lasting benefit?

 

phenylpiracetam is considered to build tolerance in only a few short days however, I need to take it for at least a week or two to see the effects, and then the effects can last for days without even taking a dose.

 

okay, so they last only days after quitting, not weeks, not years.  But days.  I wouldn't doubt it's in your system that long or at least exerting effects that long.  Marijuana impairment is known to linger up to 30 days after cessation, it's not outside the realm of possibility that benefits from a nootropic could linger equally long.

 

But the real question isn't about this or that, or even tolerance. It's a question of what's best, and what's best for the average person, and what the net result is.  Unless you are doing better on exams, or more productive in the evening I don't think you can demonstrate any benefit was achieved.  At best you're making yourself the subject of the placebo effect or a honeymoon phase.  A lot of things are best not used all the time, including bacopa.  But there the cycle can last months instead of days, because it is a milder compound, and yes, as I believe it, one which does not cause rapid tolerance on any particular neurotransmitter system.

 

I can't really comment on phenylpiracetam, I barely have time to read about such things let alone experiment.  But I would definitely have some questions for anyone claiming that continued use definitely improved their life, or for anyone claiming that people who are only dabbling (out of fear of tolerance) are the ones using it wrong.  Better to err on the side of caution when dealing with an unknown than to jump in the deep end

Edited by gamesguru, 18 November 2018 - 11:06 PM.

[mono]

Racetams need time to build up in your body. It may take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to experience the full benefits.
http://smartdrugsmar...-cheatsheet.pdf

Piracetam does not efficiently cross the blood-brain barrier, so it takes a while to build up enough to modify neurological activity.
https://www.quora.co...-so-long-to-act

It takes about two weeks for piracetam's effects to become statistically significant.
https://nootropicsgu...ation/racetams/

—

So there are a few articles stating that Piracetam must be taken for a number of weeks/months before it reaches effects. There are more available but I find it tedious to search through all the links on my iPad.

No I am not saying the benefits take a plunge, however, the colour saturation, euphoria etc does disappear upon stopping taking the drug. The cognitive changes to memory and even focus to some extent have a way of continuing on.

Yes, but the actual high of marijuana only lasts a few hours. That’s what I am saying that the significant effects such as euphoria and colour saturation take weeks of daily dosing to begin, and then can remain for up to 48+ hours without a dose. This is specifically different to the cognitive changes that can last months, years after racetam usage.

Well, not quite. Perhaps I am using racetams for addiction or depression. The boost they give satisfies the urge to get high on other substances and significantly relieves depression, then a benefit has been achieved. It’s also not hard to notice for example, when your are concentrating better, less distracted and remembering things more often without applying it to tests.

Well, I don’t quite understand what you are disagreeing with. All I am saying is that it may be a quality of racetams that they need to build up in the system, with daily dosing, before the real pronounced effects, such as euphoria, colour saturation and increased focus, are noticed. And that this quality may have been overlooked.

Edited by mono, 18 November 2018 - 11:40 PM.

[gamesguru]

Piracetam must be taken for a number of weeks/months before it reaches effects. There are more sources available but I find it tedious to search through all the links on my iPad.

 

Yes, and not one of them is a primary or academic source!  For all I know y'all are pulling this out of your collective ass.

 

All I am saying is that it may be a quality of racetams that they need to build up in the system, with daily dosing, before the real pronounced effects

 

Yes and all good theories deserve to be tested.  Experience is the true test of knowledge.  And majority rules, while in this case I'm not sure they ruled in your favor.  That's why you're swimming upstream and peppering your replies with phrases like "the boards consider" and "may have been overlooked".

 

Attack dosing is considered something that only needs to be done once.  You don't see many people recommending it as maintenance therapy simply because of the unknowns, probably also because of the negatives.  There is wisdom in the Bounty Toilet Paper commercial: less is often more.

 

May I ask how long you've been taking it?  How long have you believed it to be a great aid?

 

It’s also not hard to notice for example, when your are concentrating better, less distracted and remembering things more often without applying it to tests.

 

That's a purely subjective thing, and unless clearly and reasonably substantiated, not something likely to hold up in a court of law.

 

the colour saturation, euphoria etc does disappear

 

If you're just taking piracetam to get high and arrive at some seemingly valid insights, there are much safer substances out there.

 

the cognitive changes that can last months, years after racetam usage

 

Are these positive or negative changes?  Perhaps both, perhaps neither? 

 

a benefit has been achieved

 

Because swapping a recreation drug for a research chemical is preferred to quitting the recreational substance altogether?  If I may be permitted a purely negative moment: your posts are dangerous, my friend.  The line you walk is a thin one, blurred by many things, the desire of the subject and the lens through which he views reality.

[mono]

Look mate I don’t know what exactly rubbed you upped the wrong way but I have been taking racetams for many years and been doing just fine. It’s always been a factor that I need to dose regularly for weeks before I get an effect and you can search through these forums and find the same. If you personally don’t want to accept that see if I care, but let others make their own judgement.

[gamesguru]

That is unusual, like how many years are we talking?  See, I haven't taken piracetam in years but I recall my most lucid experiences on the day or two after a period of long abstinence.

 

If it makes you smarter (or more euphoric or lucid or something) that's more power to you.  But please don't generalize your experience to the average person.  You're basically saturating yourself in an attack dose, just sayin

[mono]

We are talking about 5 years with intermittent breaks.
That is the reason I posted as I have been reading about non-responders and it doesn’t seem that the ‘build up’ theory has been talked about very much.
The first time I took Piracetam it took about two weeks of daily dosages at 4.8 grams to work.
The first time I took noopept it worked straight away. HD vision, euphoria, tunnel vision focus - the works.
Now after a break I’m back trying racetams again, the only difference being I am taking my antipsychotic medication, and I can’t get any of them to work. That is another reason why I am asking.
Well, I have been taking phenylpiracetam for about 3-4 days and I can feel a definite colour saturation and a mild dopaniergic kind of stimulation feeling, but it is not reaching the effects I had on previous usage. I suspect it just needs more time in my system.
And I’m not saturating attack doses, I am only taking 100-200mg of phenylpiracetam a day, and likewise with other racetams I would take them at the recommended amounts.

Look, I’ll say it, I do get high on racetams and I think it is great. The thing is, the way that racetams ‘rewire’ the brain has in the past left me with an almost permanent feeling of amelioration to my depression and addiction issues. Not only that but I feel that my cognition (and I do suffer from cognitive imapairment on schizo spectrum), is generally significantly improved by racetam usage.
So, it makes sense to me, sure I enjoy it. I don’t need a court of law to decide on how to conduct my life as long as I am abiding by the law.

Edited by mono, 19 November 2018 - 04:02 AM.