33 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

LongeCity had a deal with hpnsupplements for years but it looks like they stopped selling Niagen in large bottles altogether. I don't know who sells it in bulk anymore. When looking on Amazon the choices are pretty slim and the prices are terrible.

Edited by Nate-2004, 01 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[MikeDC]

The $20 per bottle days are over. But you can still get $32.50 per bottle from TruNiagen.com if you buy 6 bottles. The daily dose now is 300mg instead of 250mg. That is 20% increase in dose.

[bluemoon]

  The daily dose now is 300mg instead of 250mg. That is 20% increase in dose.

 

No it isn't. The bottles still say 250 mg. 

[MikeDC]

No it isn't. The bottles still say 250 mg.

Did you just ordered and received from TruNiagen.com? Amazon is still selling 250mg dose.

[Nate-2004]

I don't really trust the brand. I don't think it's the same NR as Chromadex. I just realized lifeextension is selling the Chromadex stuff for 32.50 a bottle, each pill is 250mg it says. So a bottle of 30 is like a bottle of 60 HPN basically. I just got theirs instead. 28 a bottle if you get 6.

Edited by Nate-2004, 02 December 2018 - 06:20 AM.

[mikey]

Right, Nate.

Chromadex has the market cornered. They have the patent and they don't have to give anyone a discount. If you get a "best" price because you buy some number of bottles, then good.

 

It isn't greed on their part, it's just business.

This cost is not like Trodusquemine, which would cost thousands per dose IF some of us did a group buy.

I just buy NR as I need it. Why bother stressing out over a few bucks? 

[russdog]

 

It isn't greed on their part, it's just business.
 

 

This sentence is nonsensical.

 

It is also exactly what you hear ("it's just business") whenever someone is defending greedy behavior.

[mikey]

This sentence is nonsensical.

 

It is also exactly what you hear ("it's just business") whenever someone is defending greedy behavior.

 

You're right and you're wrong. We are living in a greedy capitalist world. Why is Trump our president?

I'm a socialist so I am just noting reality. This is not how I have run my businesses, but I am not "normal."

Get used to reality.

[russdog]

You're right and you're wrong. We are living in a greedy capitalist world. Why is Trump our president?

I'm a socialist so I am just noting reality. This is not how I have run my businesses, but I am not "normal."

Get used to reality.

 

I'm quite used to reality. I'm guessing I've had a greater sampling of it than you have. 

 

Reality is not helped when you, as a so-called socialist, say the very thing you pretend to be against is "not greed" and is "just business".   In fact, it is indeed greed and, as more-than-several businesses would assert, is not simply "just business" because business can and often is done quite differently.

 

Your defence of your original nonsensical comment is even more nonsensical.  (Stop digging, etc.)

Edited by russdog, 02 December 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[mikey]

I'm quite used to reality. I'm guessing I've had a greater sampling of it than you have. 

 

Reality is not helped when you, as a so-called socialist, say the very thing you pretend to be against is "not greed" and is "just business".   In fact, it is indeed greed and, as more-than-several businesses would assert, is not simply "just business" because business can and is frequently done quite differently.

 

Your defence of your original nonsensical comment is even more nonsensical.

 

 

You attempt to put words in my mouth, nonsensically.

I'm not "against" capitalism. I just have a preferred method of living and you and I don't own the patent for NR, so it's a moot point.

[MikeDC]

ChromaDex is still losing money. Their margin is only 55%. You can not say they are greedy.

[bluemoon]

Did you just ordered and received from TruNiagen.com? Amazon is still selling 250mg dose.

 

This is interesting. Why is Chromadex selling regular Niagen as Tru Niagen with now 150 mg a capsule but also marketing a 300 mg "Pro" version to doctors when it is just a double dose? I guess it is similar to double dose ibuprofen that is marketed to doctors as a "medical dose".

 

Chromadex is a duopoly, not a monopoly, as long as Elysium is around, and I think they will be for quite a while. If one of these companies leaves the market, (maybe Elysim buying Chromadex) I'd expect maybe a 25% price increase and cost the same as NMN for a while until the science becomes clearer with respect to either molecule promoting health. 

[Nate-2004]

I just want the formulation that's been tested and more studied. 

 

It's a monopoly because of the patent system, supply and demand greatly affect price, and supply would go up if there were no patent because competition would likely begin manufacturing it, lowering demand. It's simple math. The only thing that fixes it is ending the patent system, not more monopoly, but this is way off topic.

 

I'm going back to NR because it's proving to be more effective than NMN at raising NAD+ levels outside the liver, but I'm only taking it on exercise and fasting days when I am able to raise NAMPT by those means.

Edited by Nate-2004, 02 December 2018 - 03:24 PM.

[Phoebus]

ChromaDex is still losing money. Their margin is only 55%. You can not say they are greedy.

 

 

proof of this?

[bluemoon]

I just want the formulation that's been tested and more studied. 

 

It's a monopoly because of the patent system, supply and demand greatly affect price, and supply would go up if there were no patent because competition would likely begin manufacturing it, lowering demand. It's simple math. The only thing that fixes it is ending the patent system, not more monopoly, but this is way off topic.

 

I'm going back to NR because it's proving to be more effective than NMN at raising NAD+ levels outside the liver, but I'm only taking it on exercise and fasting days when I am able to raise NAMPT by those means.

 

No, it is a duopoly, not a monopoly. Pepsi and Coca Cola are in essentially a duopoly as well (technically an oligopoly since RC and others have small shares of the cola market).

[Phoebus]

I don't really trust the brand. I don't think it's the same NR as Chromadex.

 

 

as far as I know, ALL NR comes from either chromadex (which is then rebranded by mulitple other sources) or Elysium which sells as Basis. Thats it. 

 

100% of the NR on amazon is chromadex sourced. 

 

If someone has other info please chime in. 

Edited by Phoebus, 02 December 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[MikeDC]

There is another vendor selling NR from unknown source on amazon. Most likely from China.

[MikeDC]

proof of this?

Read their earnings transcript

[Phoebus]

There is another vendor selling NR from unknown source on amazon. Most likely from China.

 

ok did not know, who? 

[Nate-2004]

as far as I know, ALL NR comes from either chromadex (which is then rebranded by mulitple other sources) or Elysium which sells as Basis. Thats it. 

 

100% of the NR on amazon is chromadex sourced. 

 

If someone has other info please chime in. 

 

IIt was my understanding that Tru Niagen is not Chromadex, it's their own formulation that gets around the patent. It's Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride. Though I could be wrong and confusing it with another brand. It does mention Chromadex at the bottom of their website yet it does not mention it anywhere else.  None of the Chromadex brands have Chloride at the end so I'm a little confused.

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 December 2018 - 05:19 AM.

[Heisok]

ChromaDex, Inc.

10005 Muirlands Blvd. #G

Irvine, CA, USA 92618

customercare@truniagen.com

(888) 642-4361

Hours 8AM-5PM PST

Closed Major US Holidays

 

[MikeDC]

IIt was my understanding that Tru Niagen is not Chromadex, it's their own formulation that gets around the patent. It's Nicotinamide Riboside Chloride. Though I could be wrong and confusing it with another brand. It does mention Chromadex at the bottom of their website yet it does not mention it anywhere else. None of the Chromadex brands have Chloride at the end so I'm a little confused.

Tru Niagen is ChromaDex’s own retail brand. All other NIagen brands will disapppear next year. Any NR vendor besides Tru Niagen after that will be violating ChromaDex’s patents will be sued and stoppped.

[RichardAlan]

Reading all this about NR, but is it really any better than NMN or NAD+ sublingual?  What would be the reason for me to choose NR?  Hoping to learn more, thanks.

[able]

Chromadex licensees the patents that Dartmouth university holds for a process to manufacture Nicotinamide Riboside with Chloride to make it stable.

 

They call their product Niagen, and anyone who buys the raw ingredient from them is actually selling NR + C, and must use the name Niagen.

 

There are at least one on Amazon and a few more elsewhere that sell something that is not labelled as Niagen, so must be buying the raw ingredient from elsewhere.

 

I'm not sure how we would know if their  supplier violates the Dartmouth patents or do they use another process, but surely they are going to have a battle with Chromadex lawyers, and am surprised to see they have continued to sell that product for many months now.

 

Perhaps they are betting that Elysium will succeed in the huge legal battles to get the Dartmouth patents invalidated so they can continue to produce their knock-off product.

 

If that happens, prices should drop dramatically, but Chromadex wouldn't be able to spend so much on research and spreading the word about a product that doesn't have bulletproof patent protection. I'm not sure if that would be good, bad, or what.

 

I personally wouldn't buy it as it doesn't have the guaranteed safety that Chromadex Niagen does, and isn't much less expensive.

 

 

 

Edited by able, 03 December 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I see so Tru Niagen *is* Chromadex. Interesting that they're now pushing other people out like that but typical of anyone protected from competition via the patent system. The patent system is one of the major reasons why healthcare is so expensive, it's a cartel system of anti-competitive protection schemes enabled and run by governments under the justification that it somehow, despite all evidence to the contrary, encourages innovation.

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 December 2018 - 04:32 PM.

[Phoebus]

 

 

I personally wouldn't buy it as it doesn't have the guaranteed safety that Chromadex Niagen does, and isn't much less expensive.

 

 

agreed, I mean if it was half price or something, maybe. But at least with Niagen you know what yo are getting. Its not worth saving a dollar or 2 to take the risk of getting crap quality. 

Reading all this about NR, but is it really any better than NMN or NAD+ sublingual?  What would be the reason for me to choose NR?  Hoping to learn more, thanks.

 

 

there are multiple threads dealing with this. Some swear by NR others by NMN and the science is still up in the air. So try both and see which one works best for you, best you can do. 

[MikeDC]

I see so Tru Niagen *is* Chromadex. Interesting that they're now pushing other people out like that but typical of anyone protected from competition via the patent system. The patent system is one of the major reasons why healthcare is so expensive, it's a cartel system of anti-competitive protection schemes enabled and run by governments under the justification that it somehow, despite all evidence to the contrary, encourages innovation.

Who will spend $1 billion to have a new drug that competitors can copy and sell with zero research dollar? No patent system means no innovation. But government should try to control the price of expensive new drugs.

[MikeDC]

Reading all this about NR, but is it really any better than NMN or NAD+ sublingual? What would be the reason for me to choose NR? Hoping to learn more, thanks.

Theoretically NR is better than NMN just because NMN needs to convert to NR before entering cells. Some of the NMN may not convert to NR before drained out with urine. There are many clinical trials published with NR and zero for NMN. You also have about 200,000 people taking NR and most swear by its effectiveness compared with a few thousand people taking NMN.

[Nate-2004]

Who will spend $1 billion to have a new drug that competitors can copy and sell with zero research dollar? No patent system means no innovation. But government should try to control the price of expensive new drugs.

 

 

Off topic slightly but: That's a nice theory and all but that's not what actually happens. There's a great book out there that I plan to get back to taking notes on but there are some really heavy duty arguments against IP that nobody's bothered addressing. The book itself is called "Against Intellectual Property" by Stephan Kinsella and it's a dry as the desert read but with some seriously compelling arguments. Everybody repeating the same mantra you've repeated above has yet to verify that this is actually what happens in practice. Question the propaganda.

 

If Tru Niagen is Chromadex I'll just start buying theirs. I had no idea. I'm not sure who I was confusing them with.

Edited by Nate-2004, 03 December 2018 - 08:47 PM.

[RichardAlan]

Theoretically NR is better than NMN just because NMN needs to convert to NR before entering cells. Some of the NMN may not convert to NR before drained out with urine. There are many clinical trials published with NR and zero for NMN. You also have about 200,000 people taking NR and most swear by its effectiveness compared with a few thousand people taking NMN.

 

I'm not doubting your numbers but would be interested to hear if others also think the numbers are like 200,000 compared to a few thousand.   If that's the case then why is that?  Is it because NR is easier to obtain, because it came out first, because it's cheaper or simply because it's considered to work better than NMN.   How about sublingual NMN compared to NR?