8 replies to this topic

[RichardAlan]

I'm wondering how many of the people here are still eating meat and perhaps increasing their risk of heart disease?  Would like to hear about the diets people have chosen.  As for me I'm vegan and doing calorie restriction to keep my BMI just over 20 - 22. 

[pamojja]

 

I'm wondering how many of the people here are still eating meat and perhaps increasing their risk of heart disease?

 

Sorry for always being me trying to give maybe counterintuitive answers to your questions - but with a 80% calcified blockage diagnosed at my abdominal aorta bifurcation (PAD) 10 years ago I'm entitled with definite experiences in developing CVD and reversing it in the context of my unique bio-chemical individuality.

 

I've been very low fat vegetarian since age 10, soon lost taste for eggs and fish too, therefore except for occasional cheese almost vegan. At age 41 - 30 years of such a diet - I got the bill in form of my diagnosis. Therefore added eggs and fish despite my distaste back in, even monthly organically raised beef, and up to 70% of calories from heathy fats. And along with comprehensive supplementation could reverse the walking-disability from the PAD again within 6 years only.

 

I now believe diet - just like the microbiome - is hugely complex, and just as one agent can be detrimental or beneficial to gut microbiota in 2 different individuals, so can be dietary items. And therefore have no clear answer for any other individual, other than 'doing the same things over again and expecting different results' wont work.

 

One framework to understand such differences in need I found helpful is from the late cancer Dr. Nickolas Gonzales. These are some notes I took from one of his interviews:

 

 

Dominant sympathetic types: Typ ‘A’ personalities, disciplined; mostly solid cancers; do good on much plant based foods: fruits, vegies, seeds, grains, nuts, plant based oils: hemp, flax; Vitamin B1, B2, B3, 8:1 ratio magnesium to calcium, High vitamin C & D; but not on much meat protein, No b12, no choline, no pantheonic acid, no zinc, no selenium, no fish oil. Yes to beta Carotene, chromium, folic acid, riboflavin, thiamin,& niacin

Parasympathetic types are rather creative with unconventional ‘formal’ education; mostly blood-based cancers; do good on lots of meat and a ketogenic diet, saturated fats, fats from fish oils, Calcium 10-15 ratio to magnesium (High magnesium causes depression), Vitamin B12, B5, Choline; not as good on grains or seed. Need zinc & selenium, not good with other large Vitamin B doses.

Mixed or balanced types: suffer rather from allergies and fatigue.

 

In this framework I'm clearly a 'mixed type'. Didn't do well with plants only. Really do well on very high doses of all nutrients mentioned and a 1 to 1 Mg to Ca ratio. My BMI has always been, and now with very high fat still is, about 20 without calorie restriction. Though always ate only twice a day, which also didn't prevented getting PAD at early age.

Edited by pamojja, 10 December 2018 - 04:19 PM.

[Mind]

I am young enough that I am still willing to take some risks with my diet - for the enjoyment of life. I grew up in a culture of organic farming, hunting, and fishing, so there is a social aspect to eating meat and fish.

 

Also, almost every super-centenarian was and is omnivorous, so I am not sold on veganism being the be-all end-all guarantee to live a lot longer... but I definitely acknowledge there is a decent amount of data that indicates it can increase your odds of a longer health-span.

[RichardAlan]

Sorry for always being me trying to give maybe counterintuitive answers to your questions

 

Thanks, I really value your and everyone else's replies to my questions.  Have a great day. 

[johnross47]

I'm almost 72 and definitely the omnivore that we seem to be evolved to be, though nowadays I only eat meat occasionally and processed meat hardly ever. My BMI is usually 21-22 but I wouldn't expect to have to do CR to stay there; that's just a normal healthy weight.

[Juangalt]

In order to live a long time, you first have to live. That sounds like no life. But I also think the ideal diet contains meat.

[Oakman]

I stopped red meat at 29, some 40 odd years ago. I think that was one of the best choices I made early on in life, that has payed continued dividends over the years. Results are now my BMI ~23, BP 60/110 RHR, ~50bpm, MHR ~ 160+.  No calorie restriction, I simply don't ever eat a lot at a time, rather I graze I guess.

 

General diet is casual flexitarian, that is, mostly chicken or plant based "faux-meat", and when available, fish, seafood, very occasionally pork (bacon). It's amazing how a person's taste buds begin to truly appreciate all the wonderful flavors in a variety of different foods - once red meat is no longer the focus of every meal.

 

I've always felt most animal meat was pretty tasteless protein, that needed a lot of spices, flavorings, or BBQ to be at all palatable, rather than just tasting like chewing flavored cardboard. Beyond that meat-eating makes your sweat stink, changes your microbiome, and encourages, if not directly contributes to, obesity and a host of not very pleasant dis-eases in the body. 

Edited by Oakman, 01 January 2019 - 04:21 PM.

[RichardAlan]

I stopped red meat at 29, some 40 odd years ago. I think that was one of the best choices I made early on in life, that has payed continued dividends over the years. Results are now my BMI ~23, BP 60/110 RHR, ~50bpm, MHR ~ 160+.  No calorie restriction, I simply don't ever eat a lot at a time, rather I graze I guess.

 

General diet is casual flexitarian, that is, mostly chicken or plant based "faux-meat", and when available, fish, seafood, very occasionally pork (bacon). It's amazing how a person's taste buds begin to truly appreciate all the wonderful flavors in a variety of different foods - once red meat is no longer the focus of every meal.

 

I've always felt most animal meat was pretty tasteless protein, that needed a lot of spices, flavorings, or BBQ to be at all palatable, rather than just tasting like chewing flavored cardboard. Beyond that meat-eating makes your sweat stink, changes your microbiome, and encourages, if not directly contributes to, obesity and a host of not very pleasant dis-eases in the body. 

 

Does that MHR refer to maximum heart rate? In which case, how do you measure that?  

[Oakman]

I use a Scosche HR monitor, Strava Android app while cycling. Everything I need (speed, HR, power) is recorded (and nicely graphed for later review) as well as being shown on my smartphone mounted on the bike. There's one nice level 4 mile stretch nearby I can cut loose and go all out (defined as can't pedal faster, can't breath faster). I use that regularly to gauge my fitness level. My best average speed over those 4 miles is currently 18.5 mph. During that segment my highest HR is typically 160-165 range ...therefore I take that as my MHR.